BREAKING: U.S. Officials Have Declassified List Of Obama Officials Who Were Involved In ‘Unmasking’ General Flynn

[colfax_m]

but that would pretty much be like every election before and what we do to others around the world on an all too regular basis

I always challenge this assertion. I don’t see this as a normal thing. Can you remember the last time Russia jacked with our election?

Russia (then USSR) has a long history of attempting to interfere with our democratic process (with the aim of showing that democracy is inherently inferior), but you are right - this level of interference, on a multinational platform, is unprecedented.

and other than hacking the DNC, just what did they do?

i know of facebook ads. what else?

Is hacking the DNC and Podesta, with the subsequent release of the info, not significant enough? It was a major event during the campaign.

1. Who hacked the DNC and Podesta ?

2. Who released the info or how was it released ?

3. Was the info released steeped in lies or truth ?

4. What was the response by the DNC and Podesta for it's info being hacked, and subsequently that information being released ?

5. How did the hackers or anyone know of such information ?

6. Was the information first obtained by insiders who had an ax to grind, and it's information location then given over to the hackers ?

Where is all this information or the answers to it all now ? Is there so much information out there, that the scene has been flooded, and the DNC has been enjoying the chaos in it all by assigning blame or using it politically in order to regain power somehow ?

The DNC blaming Trump for everything because they hate him, and hate him for spurious reasons unrelated, seems to be grounded in what should be called "operation political chaos" by them, where as you gather up negative information in what ever form it takes or it comes in, and then attempt to apply it politically for nefarious reasons, and/or for other reasons not pertaining to the need to get to the bottom of anything, but just use it for future outcomes in hopes to sway future elections.

All that information is in the Mueller report. Russia hacked the DNC and Podesta. Russia released the hacked information. The DNC hired CrowdStrike to clean out their network. Hackers used phishing to gain access to the network. It was not some “inside job”.

Oh so Russia just happened to know that the DNC was dirty, and so they were assured that they could gain success on hurting their chances by hacking and releasing dirt on them ? Out of thin air, the Russians targeted the DNC without any help from inside the workings of the DNC ??

Nothing dirty in the hacks, just embarrassing.
The Russians are opportunistic and have attempted to hack a great many things, often successfully.

New Russian Hacking Targeted Republican Groups, Microsoft Says (Published 2018)

Microsoft was surprised not that recent “spear phishing” attempts had occurred, but that they targeted traditional conservative think tanks. Those groups have been critical of Russia.

www.nytimes.com

Russia Targeted Election Systems in All 50 States, Report Finds (Published 2019)

A Senate panel documented an effort largely undetected by state and federal officials at the time. But its report was so heavily redacted that key lessons for 2020 were blacked out.

www.nytimes.com

Merkel cites ‘hard evidence’ Russian hackers targeted her

German chancellor says improving ties with Moscow is challenging following a hacking attempt and a murder in Berlin.

www.aljazeera.com

You are like an ostrich with it head in the sand.

The Democrats used unverified Russian propaganda (Steele Dossier) to illegally obtain a FISA warrant in order to spy on the Trump campaign and, after that, Trump's Presidential transition team. It wasn't the Russians interfering with the election, it was the DNC attempting an old fashioned coup.

How do you get from FISA warrant on Carter Page to old fashioned coup? Where’s the connection between those two things?

i'm still looking to find out other than "potentially / likely" hacking the DNC and facebook ads, what russia did to interfere in our elections and how that was so much more than "normal" interfering activity.

So what crimes did Russia commit other than the totally illegal things they did to interfere in our election? That doesn’t sound like a very serious question. Read the Muller report volume one. There was a little more along the lines of troll farms and fake grassroots but the most sensational activity was hacking and dumping of emails. That’s enough. It was a major story during the campaign. Trump designed campaign strategy around the story which is why they were seeking coordination with Wikileaks.

I don’t think there is “normal” interfering. As your link pointed out, Russia really doesn’t interfere in our elections.

Then there's Hillary bleach bitting, destroying evidence left and right, servers in bathroom's, but nothing at all to see here folks, nothing at all. It was the Russians I tell ya, the Russians are coming, the Russians are coming.

Hillary didn’t destroy evidence. Y’all got your panties in a wad because she used the wrong email address acting like it was the end of the world or something.

 

[iceberg]

but that would pretty much be like every election before and what we do to others around the world on an all too regular basis

I always challenge this assertion. I don’t see this as a normal thing. Can you remember the last time Russia jacked with our election?

Russia (then USSR) has a long history of attempting to interfere with our democratic process (with the aim of showing that democracy is inherently inferior), but you are right - this level of interference, on a multinational platform, is unprecedented.

and other than hacking the DNC, just what did they do?

i know of facebook ads. what else?

Is hacking the DNC and Podesta, with the subsequent release of the info, not significant enough? It was a major event during the campaign.

1. Who hacked the DNC and Podesta ?

2. Who released the info or how was it released ?

3. Was the info released steeped in lies or truth ?

4. What was the response by the DNC and Podesta for it's info being hacked, and subsequently that information being released ?

5. How did the hackers or anyone know of such information ?

6. Was the information first obtained by insiders who had an ax to grind, and it's information location then given over to the hackers ?

Where is all this information or the answers to it all now ? Is there so much information out there, that the scene has been flooded, and the DNC has been enjoying the chaos in it all by assigning blame or using it politically in order to regain power somehow ?

The DNC blaming Trump for everything because they hate him, and hate him for spurious reasons unrelated, seems to be grounded in what should be called "operation political chaos" by them, where as you gather up negative information in what ever form it takes or it comes in, and then attempt to apply it politically for nefarious reasons, and/or for other reasons not pertaining to the need to get to the bottom of anything, but just use it for future outcomes in hopes to sway future elections.

All that information is in the Mueller report. Russia hacked the DNC and Podesta. Russia released the hacked information. The DNC hired CrowdStrike to clean out their network. Hackers used phishing to gain access to the network. It was not some “inside job”.

Oh so Russia just happened to know that the DNC was dirty, and so they were assured that they could gain success on hurting their chances by hacking and releasing dirt on them ? Out of thin air, the Russians targeted the DNC without any help from inside the workings of the DNC ??

Nothing dirty in the hacks, just embarrassing.
The Russians are opportunistic and have attempted to hack a great many things, often successfully.

New Russian Hacking Targeted Republican Groups, Microsoft Says (Published 2018)

Microsoft was surprised not that recent “spear phishing” attempts had occurred, but that they targeted traditional conservative think tanks. Those groups have been critical of Russia.

www.nytimes.com

Russia Targeted Election Systems in All 50 States, Report Finds (Published 2019)

A Senate panel documented an effort largely undetected by state and federal officials at the time. But its report was so heavily redacted that key lessons for 2020 were blacked out.

www.nytimes.com

Merkel cites ‘hard evidence’ Russian hackers targeted her

German chancellor says improving ties with Moscow is challenging following a hacking attempt and a murder in Berlin.

www.aljazeera.com

You are like an ostrich with it head in the sand.

The Democrats used unverified Russian propaganda (Steele Dossier) to illegally obtain a FISA warrant in order to spy on the Trump campaign and, after that, Trump's Presidential transition team. It wasn't the Russians interfering with the election, it was the DNC attempting an old fashioned coup.

How do you get from FISA warrant on Carter Page to old fashioned coup? Where’s the connection between those two things?

i'm still looking to find out other than "potentially / likely" hacking the DNC and facebook ads, what russia did to interfere in our elections and how that was so much more than "normal" interfering activity.

So what crimes did Russia commit other than the totally illegal things they did to interfere in our election? That doesn’t sound like a very serious question. Read the Muller report volume one. There was a little more along the lines of troll farms and fake grassroots but the most sensational activity was hacking and dumping of emails. That’s enough. It was a major story during the campaign. Trump designed campaign strategy around the story which is why they were seeking coordination with Wikileaks.

I don’t think there is “normal” interfering. As your link pointed out, Russia really doesn’t interfere in our elections.

it's a very serious question since we keep referring to these crimes being linked to trump somehow. if we're going to ask why is one unmasking different than the other so we can get to the details, that's fine. i'm in.

but i want to know why whatever russia did was a "vast escalation" over past interferances.

what did they do before?
hacking DNC / $100k facebook ads - is this it that we're calling a mass escalation in interferance?

i want to be sure of what we are calling escalated crimes by russia before i agree they are in fact worse than past actions.

Hacking the DNC and the emails produced was headline news for weeks. It was one of the major stories during the campaign.

Yes. It was a huge escalation.

Escalation from what? What did they do in previous elections we compare to?

 

[Coyote]

but that would pretty much be like every election before and what we do to others around the world on an all too regular basis

I always challenge this assertion. I don’t see this as a normal thing. Can you remember the last time Russia jacked with our election?

Russia (then USSR) has a long history of attempting to interfere with our democratic process (with the aim of showing that democracy is inherently inferior), but you are right - this level of interference, on a multinational platform, is unprecedented.

and other than hacking the DNC, just what did they do?

i know of facebook ads. what else?

Is hacking the DNC and Podesta, with the subsequent release of the info, not significant enough? It was a major event during the campaign.

1. Who hacked the DNC and Podesta ?

2. Who released the info or how was it released ?

3. Was the info released steeped in lies or truth ?

4. What was the response by the DNC and Podesta for it's info being hacked, and subsequently that information being released ?

5. How did the hackers or anyone know of such information ?

6. Was the information first obtained by insiders who had an ax to grind, and it's information location then given over to the hackers ?

Where is all this information or the answers to it all now ? Is there so much information out there, that the scene has been flooded, and the DNC has been enjoying the chaos in it all by assigning blame or using it politically in order to regain power somehow ?

The DNC blaming Trump for everything because they hate him, and hate him for spurious reasons unrelated, seems to be grounded in what should be called "operation political chaos" by them, where as you gather up negative information in what ever form it takes or it comes in, and then attempt to apply it politically for nefarious reasons, and/or for other reasons not pertaining to the need to get to the bottom of anything, but just use it for future outcomes in hopes to sway future elections.

All that information is in the Mueller report. Russia hacked the DNC and Podesta. Russia released the hacked information. The DNC hired CrowdStrike to clean out their network. Hackers used phishing to gain access to the network. It was not some “inside job”.

Oh so Russia just happened to know that the DNC was dirty, and so they were assured that they could gain success on hurting their chances by hacking and releasing dirt on them ? Out of thin air, the Russians targeted the DNC without any help from inside the workings of the DNC ??

Nothing dirty in the hacks, just embarrassing.
The Russians are opportunistic and have attempted to hack a great many things, often successfully.

New Russian Hacking Targeted Republican Groups, Microsoft Says (Published 2018)

Microsoft was surprised not that recent “spear phishing” attempts had occurred, but that they targeted traditional conservative think tanks. Those groups have been critical of Russia.

www.nytimes.com

Russia Targeted Election Systems in All 50 States, Report Finds (Published 2019)

A Senate panel documented an effort largely undetected by state and federal officials at the time. But its report was so heavily redacted that key lessons for 2020 were blacked out.

www.nytimes.com

Merkel cites ‘hard evidence’ Russian hackers targeted her

German chancellor says improving ties with Moscow is challenging following a hacking attempt and a murder in Berlin.

www.aljazeera.com

You are like an ostrich with it head in the sand.

The Democrats used unverified Russian propaganda (Steele Dossier) to illegally obtain a FISA warrant in order to spy on the Trump campaign and, after that, Trump's Presidential transition team. It wasn't the Russians interfering with the election, it was the DNC attempting an old fashioned coup.

How do you get from FISA warrant on Carter Page to old fashioned coup? Where’s the connection between those two things?

i'm still looking to find out other than "potentially / likely" hacking the DNC and facebook ads, what russia did to interfere in our elections and how that was so much more than "normal" interfering activity.

I think there are factors here not being considered.

1. They have always attempted this sort of mischief with the goal of creating chaos and division, so this is nothing new.

2. The tools available and the playing field are drastically different. By playingfield, I mean the audience they can now reach and tbe divides they can exploit. The number of people connected to the internet has increased exponentially, far ahead of our ability to handle the information. One example I remember reading about involved a pro_white demonstration coordinated by an online group. There was a counter demonstration also organized. Both to demonstrate in the same are. Both tracing back to Russian organizers. Sothat is on, non po,itical example....how much more is out there? Each one exploiting and magnifying our divides and our trust in our democratic institutions.

you're telling me what they could do.
you're telling me people fall for stupid crap when it pits one extreme side against another. 100% agreed.

but i want to know specifically what russia did to interfere in our election that makes you and others say this is MORE than normal?

what is normal and how is this more? we can either answer that or write long posts that talk about how people bitch at each other online OF WHICH everyone in here is already well aware.

Well, I would say for a starter, their hacking of DNC and collaboration with wikileaksto strategically releases it is one example. I would also add their attempted hacks at voter registration and state electoral software. That wasn’t successful yet, but it certainly ups the ante.

Is there an article that states all their 2016 activity? Wiki is anyone can edit so not sure that applies here.

Wiki also sources,.

 

[iceberg]

but that would pretty much be like every election before and what we do to others around the world on an all too regular basis

I always challenge this assertion. I don’t see this as a normal thing. Can you remember the last time Russia jacked with our election?

Russia (then USSR) has a long history of attempting to interfere with our democratic process (with the aim of showing that democracy is inherently inferior), but you are right - this level of interference, on a multinational platform, is unprecedented.

and other than hacking the DNC, just what did they do?

i know of facebook ads. what else?

Is hacking the DNC and Podesta, with the subsequent release of the info, not significant enough? It was a major event during the campaign.

1. Who hacked the DNC and Podesta ?

2. Who released the info or how was it released ?

3. Was the info released steeped in lies or truth ?

4. What was the response by the DNC and Podesta for it's info being hacked, and subsequently that information being released ?

5. How did the hackers or anyone know of such information ?

6. Was the information first obtained by insiders who had an ax to grind, and it's information location then given over to the hackers ?

Where is all this information or the answers to it all now ? Is there so much information out there, that the scene has been flooded, and the DNC has been enjoying the chaos in it all by assigning blame or using it politically in order to regain power somehow ?

The DNC blaming Trump for everything because they hate him, and hate him for spurious reasons unrelated, seems to be grounded in what should be called "operation political chaos" by them, where as you gather up negative information in what ever form it takes or it comes in, and then attempt to apply it politically for nefarious reasons, and/or for other reasons not pertaining to the need to get to the bottom of anything, but just use it for future outcomes in hopes to sway future elections.

All that information is in the Mueller report. Russia hacked the DNC and Podesta. Russia released the hacked information. The DNC hired CrowdStrike to clean out their network. Hackers used phishing to gain access to the network. It was not some “inside job”.

Oh so Russia just happened to know that the DNC was dirty, and so they were assured that they could gain success on hurting their chances by hacking and releasing dirt on them ? Out of thin air, the Russians targeted the DNC without any help from inside the workings of the DNC ??

Nothing dirty in the hacks, just embarrassing.
The Russians are opportunistic and have attempted to hack a great many things, often successfully.

New Russian Hacking Targeted Republican Groups, Microsoft Says (Published 2018)

Microsoft was surprised not that recent “spear phishing” attempts had occurred, but that they targeted traditional conservative think tanks. Those groups have been critical of Russia.

www.nytimes.com

Russia Targeted Election Systems in All 50 States, Report Finds (Published 2019)

A Senate panel documented an effort largely undetected by state and federal officials at the time. But its report was so heavily redacted that key lessons for 2020 were blacked out.

www.nytimes.com

Merkel cites ‘hard evidence’ Russian hackers targeted her

German chancellor says improving ties with Moscow is challenging following a hacking attempt and a murder in Berlin.

www.aljazeera.com

You are like an ostrich with it head in the sand.

The Democrats used unverified Russian propaganda (Steele Dossier) to illegally obtain a FISA warrant in order to spy on the Trump campaign and, after that, Trump's Presidential transition team. It wasn't the Russians interfering with the election, it was the DNC attempting an old fashioned coup.

How do you get from FISA warrant on Carter Page to old fashioned coup? Where’s the connection between those two things?

i'm still looking to find out other than "potentially / likely" hacking the DNC and facebook ads, what russia did to interfere in our elections and how that was so much more than "normal" interfering activity.

I think there are factors here not being considered.

1. They have always attempted this sort of mischief with the goal of creating chaos and division, so this is nothing new.

2. The tools available and the playing field are drastically different. By playingfield, I mean the audience they can now reach and tbe divides they can exploit. The number of people connected to the internet has increased exponentially, far ahead of our ability to handle the information. One example I remember reading about involved a pro_white demonstration coordinated by an online group. There was a counter demonstration also organized. Both to demonstrate in the same are. Both tracing back to Russian organizers. Sothat is on, non po,itical example....how much more is out there? Each one exploiting and magnifying our divides and our trust in our democratic institutions.

you're telling me what they could do.
you're telling me people fall for stupid crap when it pits one extreme side against another. 100% agreed.

but i want to know specifically what russia did to interfere in our election that makes you and others say this is MORE than normal?

what is normal and how is this more? we can either answer that or write long posts that talk about how people bitch at each other online OF WHICH everyone in here is already well aware.

Well, I would say for a starter, their hacking of DNC and collaboration with wikileaksto strategically releases it is one example. I would also add their attempted hacks at voter registration and state electoral software. That wasn’t successful yet, but it certainly ups the ante.

Is there an article that states all their 2016 activity? Wiki is anyone can edit so not sure that applies here.

Wiki also sources,.

I still don't get a baseline of past activity we compare to. In order to say this is more than usual, we need to define "usual"

 

[Coyote]

but that would pretty much be like every election before and what we do to others around the world on an all too regular basis

I always challenge this assertion. I don’t see this as a normal thing. Can you remember the last time Russia jacked with our election?

Russia (then USSR) has a long history of attempting to interfere with our democratic process (with the aim of showing that democracy is inherently inferior), but you are right - this level of interference, on a multinational platform, is unprecedented.

and other than hacking the DNC, just what did they do?

i know of facebook ads. what else?

Is hacking the DNC and Podesta, with the subsequent release of the info, not significant enough? It was a major event during the campaign.

1. Who hacked the DNC and Podesta ?

2. Who released the info or how was it released ?

3. Was the info released steeped in lies or truth ?

4. What was the response by the DNC and Podesta for it's info being hacked, and subsequently that information being released ?

5. How did the hackers or anyone know of such information ?

6. Was the information first obtained by insiders who had an ax to grind, and it's information location then given over to the hackers ?

Where is all this information or the answers to it all now ? Is there so much information out there, that the scene has been flooded, and the DNC has been enjoying the chaos in it all by assigning blame or using it politically in order to regain power somehow ?

The DNC blaming Trump for everything because they hate him, and hate him for spurious reasons unrelated, seems to be grounded in what should be called "operation political chaos" by them, where as you gather up negative information in what ever form it takes or it comes in, and then attempt to apply it politically for nefarious reasons, and/or for other reasons not pertaining to the need to get to the bottom of anything, but just use it for future outcomes in hopes to sway future elections.

All that information is in the Mueller report. Russia hacked the DNC and Podesta. Russia released the hacked information. The DNC hired CrowdStrike to clean out their network. Hackers used phishing to gain access to the network. It was not some “inside job”.

Oh so Russia just happened to know that the DNC was dirty, and so they were assured that they could gain success on hurting their chances by hacking and releasing dirt on them ? Out of thin air, the Russians targeted the DNC without any help from inside the workings of the DNC ??

Nothing dirty in the hacks, just embarrassing.
The Russians are opportunistic and have attempted to hack a great many things, often successfully.

New Russian Hacking Targeted Republican Groups, Microsoft Says (Published 2018)

Microsoft was surprised not that recent “spear phishing” attempts had occurred, but that they targeted traditional conservative think tanks. Those groups have been critical of Russia.

www.nytimes.com

Russia Targeted Election Systems in All 50 States, Report Finds (Published 2019)

A Senate panel documented an effort largely undetected by state and federal officials at the time. But its report was so heavily redacted that key lessons for 2020 were blacked out.

www.nytimes.com

Merkel cites ‘hard evidence’ Russian hackers targeted her

German chancellor says improving ties with Moscow is challenging following a hacking attempt and a murder in Berlin.

www.aljazeera.com

You are like an ostrich with it head in the sand.

The Democrats used unverified Russian propaganda (Steele Dossier) to illegally obtain a FISA warrant in order to spy on the Trump campaign and, after that, Trump's Presidential transition team. It wasn't the Russians interfering with the election, it was the DNC attempting an old fashioned coup.

How do you get from FISA warrant on Carter Page to old fashioned coup? Where’s the connection between those two things?

i'm still looking to find out other than "potentially / likely" hacking the DNC and facebook ads, what russia did to interfere in our elections and how that was so much more than "normal" interfering activity.

I think there are factors here not being considered.

1. They have always attempted this sort of mischief with the goal of creating chaos and division, so this is nothing new.

2. The tools available and the playing field are drastically different. By playingfield, I mean the audience they can now reach and tbe divides they can exploit. The number of people connected to the internet has increased exponentially, far ahead of our ability to handle the information. One example I remember reading about involved a pro_white demonstration coordinated by an online group. There was a counter demonstration also organized. Both to demonstrate in the same are. Both tracing back to Russian organizers. Sothat is on, non po,itical example....how much more is out there? Each one exploiting and magnifying our divides and our trust in our democratic institutions.

you're telling me what they could do.
you're telling me people fall for stupid crap when it pits one extreme side against another. 100% agreed.

but i want to know specifically what russia did to interfere in our election that makes you and others say this is MORE than normal?

what is normal and how is this more? we can either answer that or write long posts that talk about how people bitch at each other online OF WHICH everyone in here is already well aware.

Well, I would say for a starter, their hacking of DNC and collaboration with wikileaksto strategically releases it is one example. I would also add their attempted hacks at voter registration and state electoral software. That wasn’t successful yet, but it certainly ups the ante.

Is there an article that states all their 2016 activity? Wiki is anyone can edit so not sure that applies here.

Wiki also sources,.

I still don't get a baseline of past activity we compare to. In order to say this is more than usual, we need to define "usual"

Don’t you think the fact that they were successful merits a “more than usual” for a start?

 

[Coyote]

but that would pretty much be like every election before and what we do to others around the world on an all too regular basis

I always challenge this assertion. I don’t see this as a normal thing. Can you remember the last time Russia jacked with our election?

Russia (then USSR) has a long history of attempting to interfere with our democratic process (with the aim of showing that democracy is inherently inferior), but you are right - this level of interference, on a multinational platform, is unprecedented.

and other than hacking the DNC, just what did they do?

i know of facebook ads. what else?

Is hacking the DNC and Podesta, with the subsequent release of the info, not significant enough? It was a major event during the campaign.

1. Who hacked the DNC and Podesta ?

2. Who released the info or how was it released ?

3. Was the info released steeped in lies or truth ?

4. What was the response by the DNC and Podesta for it's info being hacked, and subsequently that information being released ?

5. How did the hackers or anyone know of such information ?

6. Was the information first obtained by insiders who had an ax to grind, and it's information location then given over to the hackers ?

Where is all this information or the answers to it all now ? Is there so much information out there, that the scene has been flooded, and the DNC has been enjoying the chaos in it all by assigning blame or using it politically in order to regain power somehow ?

The DNC blaming Trump for everything because they hate him, and hate him for spurious reasons unrelated, seems to be grounded in what should be called "operation political chaos" by them, where as you gather up negative information in what ever form it takes or it comes in, and then attempt to apply it politically for nefarious reasons, and/or for other reasons not pertaining to the need to get to the bottom of anything, but just use it for future outcomes in hopes to sway future elections.

All that information is in the Mueller report. Russia hacked the DNC and Podesta. Russia released the hacked information. The DNC hired CrowdStrike to clean out their network. Hackers used phishing to gain access to the network. It was not some “inside job”.

Oh so Russia just happened to know that the DNC was dirty, and so they were assured that they could gain success on hurting their chances by hacking and releasing dirt on them ? Out of thin air, the Russians targeted the DNC without any help from inside the workings of the DNC ??

Nothing dirty in the hacks, just embarrassing.
The Russians are opportunistic and have attempted to hack a great many things, often successfully.

New Russian Hacking Targeted Republican Groups, Microsoft Says (Published 2018)

Microsoft was surprised not that recent “spear phishing” attempts had occurred, but that they targeted traditional conservative think tanks. Those groups have been critical of Russia.

www.nytimes.com

Russia Targeted Election Systems in All 50 States, Report Finds (Published 2019)

A Senate panel documented an effort largely undetected by state and federal officials at the time. But its report was so heavily redacted that key lessons for 2020 were blacked out.

www.nytimes.com

Merkel cites ‘hard evidence’ Russian hackers targeted her

German chancellor says improving ties with Moscow is challenging following a hacking attempt and a murder in Berlin.

www.aljazeera.com

You are like an ostrich with it head in the sand.

The Democrats used unverified Russian propaganda (Steele Dossier) to illegally obtain a FISA warrant in order to spy on the Trump campaign and, after that, Trump's Presidential transition team. It wasn't the Russians interfering with the election, it was the DNC attempting an old fashioned coup.

How do you get from FISA warrant on Carter Page to old fashioned coup? Where’s the connection between those two things?

i'm still looking to find out other than "potentially / likely" hacking the DNC and facebook ads, what russia did to interfere in our elections and how that was so much more than "normal" interfering activity.

I think there are factors here not being considered.

1. They have always attempted this sort of mischief with the goal of creating chaos and division, so this is nothing new.

2. The tools available and the playing field are drastically different. By playingfield, I mean the audience they can now reach and tbe divides they can exploit. The number of people connected to the internet has increased exponentially, far ahead of our ability to handle the information. One example I remember reading about involved a pro_white demonstration coordinated by an online group. There was a counter demonstration also organized. Both to demonstrate in the same are. Both tracing back to Russian organizers. Sothat is on, non po,itical example....how much more is out there? Each one exploiting and magnifying our divides and our trust in our democratic institutions.

you're telling me what they could do.
you're telling me people fall for stupid crap when it pits one extreme side against another. 100% agreed.

but i want to know specifically what russia did to interfere in our election that makes you and others say this is MORE than normal?

what is normal and how is this more? we can either answer that or write long posts that talk about how people bitch at each other online OF WHICH everyone in here is already well aware.

Well, I would say for a starter, their hacking of DNC and collaboration with wikileaksto strategically releases it is one example. I would also add their attempted hacks at voter registration and state electoral software. That wasn’t successful yet, but it certainly ups the ante.

Is there an article that states all their 2016 activity? Wiki is anyone can edit so not sure that applies here.

Wiki also sources,.

I still don't get a baseline of past activity we compare to. In order to say this is more than usual, we need to define "usual"

well...Wikipedia gives us the best sense of a timeline:Timeline of Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections - Wikipedia

 

[Leo123]

but that would pretty much be like every election before and what we do to others around the world on an all too regular basis

I always challenge this assertion. I don’t see this as a normal thing. Can you remember the last time Russia jacked with our election?

Russia (then USSR) has a long history of attempting to interfere with our democratic process (with the aim of showing that democracy is inherently inferior), but you are right - this level of interference, on a multinational platform, is unprecedented.

and other than hacking the DNC, just what did they do?

i know of facebook ads. what else?

Is hacking the DNC and Podesta, with the subsequent release of the info, not significant enough? It was a major event during the campaign.

1. Who hacked the DNC and Podesta ?

2. Who released the info or how was it released ?

3. Was the info released steeped in lies or truth ?

4. What was the response by the DNC and Podesta for it's info being hacked, and subsequently that information being released ?

5. How did the hackers or anyone know of such information ?

6. Was the information first obtained by insiders who had an ax to grind, and it's information location then given over to the hackers ?

Where is all this information or the answers to it all now ? Is there so much information out there, that the scene has been flooded, and the DNC has been enjoying the chaos in it all by assigning blame or using it politically in order to regain power somehow ?

The DNC blaming Trump for everything because they hate him, and hate him for spurious reasons unrelated, seems to be grounded in what should be called "operation political chaos" by them, where as you gather up negative information in what ever form it takes or it comes in, and then attempt to apply it politically for nefarious reasons, and/or for other reasons not pertaining to the need to get to the bottom of anything, but just use it for future outcomes in hopes to sway future elections.

All that information is in the Mueller report. Russia hacked the DNC and Podesta. Russia released the hacked information. The DNC hired CrowdStrike to clean out their network. Hackers used phishing to gain access to the network. It was not some “inside job”.

Oh so Russia just happened to know that the DNC was dirty, and so they were assured that they could gain success on hurting their chances by hacking and releasing dirt on them ? Out of thin air, the Russians targeted the DNC without any help from inside the workings of the DNC ??

Nothing dirty in the hacks, just embarrassing.
The Russians are opportunistic and have attempted to hack a great many things, often successfully.

New Russian Hacking Targeted Republican Groups, Microsoft Says (Published 2018)

Microsoft was surprised not that recent “spear phishing” attempts had occurred, but that they targeted traditional conservative think tanks. Those groups have been critical of Russia.

www.nytimes.com

Russia Targeted Election Systems in All 50 States, Report Finds (Published 2019)

A Senate panel documented an effort largely undetected by state and federal officials at the time. But its report was so heavily redacted that key lessons for 2020 were blacked out.

www.nytimes.com

Merkel cites ‘hard evidence’ Russian hackers targeted her

German chancellor says improving ties with Moscow is challenging following a hacking attempt and a murder in Berlin.

www.aljazeera.com

You are like an ostrich with it head in the sand.

The Democrats used unverified Russian propaganda (Steele Dossier) to illegally obtain a FISA warrant in order to spy on the Trump campaign and, after that, Trump's Presidential transition team. It wasn't the Russians interfering with the election, it was the DNC attempting an old fashioned coup.

How do you get from FISA warrant on Carter Page to old fashioned coup? Where’s the connection between those two things?

i'm still looking to find out other than "potentially / likely" hacking the DNC and facebook ads, what russia did to interfere in our elections and how that was so much more than "normal" interfering activity.

I think there are factors here not being considered.

1. They have always attempted this sort of mischief with the goal of creating chaos and division, so this is nothing new.

2. The tools available and the playing field are drastically different. By playingfield, I mean the audience they can now reach and tbe divides they can exploit. The number of people connected to the internet has increased exponentially, far ahead of our ability to handle the information. One example I remember reading about involved a pro_white demonstration coordinated by an online group. There was a counter demonstration also organized. Both to demonstrate in the same are. Both tracing back to Russian organizers. Sothat is on, non po,itical example....how much more is out there? Each one exploiting and magnifying our divides and our trust in our democratic institutions.

you're telling me what they could do.
you're telling me people fall for stupid crap when it pits one extreme side against another. 100% agreed.

but i want to know specifically what russia did to interfere in our election that makes you and others say this is MORE than normal?

what is normal and how is this more? we can either answer that or write long posts that talk about how people bitch at each other online OF WHICH everyone in here is already well aware.

Well, I would say for a starter, their hacking of DNC and collaboration with wikileaksto strategically releases it is one example. I would also add their attempted hacks at voter registration and state electoral software. That wasn’t successful yet, but it certainly ups the ante.

Is there an article that states all their 2016 activity? Wiki is anyone can edit so not sure that applies here.

Wiki also sources,.

I still don't get a baseline of past activity we compare to. In order to say this is more than usual, we need to define "usual"

well...Wikipedia gives us the best sense of a timeline:Timeline of Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections - Wikipedia

And the Democrats were happy to use Russian disinformation to get a FISA warrant to spy on Trump's campaign and his staff.

 

[iceberg]

but that would pretty much be like every election before and what we do to others around the world on an all too regular basis

I always challenge this assertion. I don’t see this as a normal thing. Can you remember the last time Russia jacked with our election?

Russia (then USSR) has a long history of attempting to interfere with our democratic process (with the aim of showing that democracy is inherently inferior), but you are right - this level of interference, on a multinational platform, is unprecedented.

and other than hacking the DNC, just what did they do?

i know of facebook ads. what else?

Is hacking the DNC and Podesta, with the subsequent release of the info, not significant enough? It was a major event during the campaign.

1. Who hacked the DNC and Podesta ?

2. Who released the info or how was it released ?

3. Was the info released steeped in lies or truth ?

4. What was the response by the DNC and Podesta for it's info being hacked, and subsequently that information being released ?

5. How did the hackers or anyone know of such information ?

6. Was the information first obtained by insiders who had an ax to grind, and it's information location then given over to the hackers ?

Where is all this information or the answers to it all now ? Is there so much information out there, that the scene has been flooded, and the DNC has been enjoying the chaos in it all by assigning blame or using it politically in order to regain power somehow ?

The DNC blaming Trump for everything because they hate him, and hate him for spurious reasons unrelated, seems to be grounded in what should be called "operation political chaos" by them, where as you gather up negative information in what ever form it takes or it comes in, and then attempt to apply it politically for nefarious reasons, and/or for other reasons not pertaining to the need to get to the bottom of anything, but just use it for future outcomes in hopes to sway future elections.

All that information is in the Mueller report. Russia hacked the DNC and Podesta. Russia released the hacked information. The DNC hired CrowdStrike to clean out their network. Hackers used phishing to gain access to the network. It was not some “inside job”.

Oh so Russia just happened to know that the DNC was dirty, and so they were assured that they could gain success on hurting their chances by hacking and releasing dirt on them ? Out of thin air, the Russians targeted the DNC without any help from inside the workings of the DNC ??

Nothing dirty in the hacks, just embarrassing.
The Russians are opportunistic and have attempted to hack a great many things, often successfully.

New Russian Hacking Targeted Republican Groups, Microsoft Says (Published 2018)

Microsoft was surprised not that recent “spear phishing” attempts had occurred, but that they targeted traditional conservative think tanks. Those groups have been critical of Russia.

www.nytimes.com

Russia Targeted Election Systems in All 50 States, Report Finds (Published 2019)

A Senate panel documented an effort largely undetected by state and federal officials at the time. But its report was so heavily redacted that key lessons for 2020 were blacked out.

www.nytimes.com

Merkel cites ‘hard evidence’ Russian hackers targeted her

German chancellor says improving ties with Moscow is challenging following a hacking attempt and a murder in Berlin.

www.aljazeera.com

You are like an ostrich with it head in the sand.

The Democrats used unverified Russian propaganda (Steele Dossier) to illegally obtain a FISA warrant in order to spy on the Trump campaign and, after that, Trump's Presidential transition team. It wasn't the Russians interfering with the election, it was the DNC attempting an old fashioned coup.

How do you get from FISA warrant on Carter Page to old fashioned coup? Where’s the connection between those two things?

i'm still looking to find out other than "potentially / likely" hacking the DNC and facebook ads, what russia did to interfere in our elections and how that was so much more than "normal" interfering activity.

I think there are factors here not being considered.

1. They have always attempted this sort of mischief with the goal of creating chaos and division, so this is nothing new.

2. The tools available and the playing field are drastically different. By playingfield, I mean the audience they can now reach and tbe divides they can exploit. The number of people connected to the internet has increased exponentially, far ahead of our ability to handle the information. One example I remember reading about involved a pro_white demonstration coordinated by an online group. There was a counter demonstration also organized. Both to demonstrate in the same are. Both tracing back to Russian organizers. Sothat is on, non po,itical example....how much more is out there? Each one exploiting and magnifying our divides and our trust in our democratic institutions.

you're telling me what they could do.
you're telling me people fall for stupid crap when it pits one extreme side against another. 100% agreed.

but i want to know specifically what russia did to interfere in our election that makes you and others say this is MORE than normal?

what is normal and how is this more? we can either answer that or write long posts that talk about how people bitch at each other online OF WHICH everyone in here is already well aware.

Well, I would say for a starter, their hacking of DNC and collaboration with wikileaksto strategically releases it is one example. I would also add their attempted hacks at voter registration and state electoral software. That wasn’t successful yet, but it certainly ups the ante.

Is there an article that states all their 2016 activity? Wiki is anyone can edit so not sure that applies here.

Wiki also sources,.

I still don't get a baseline of past activity we compare to. In order to say this is more than usual, we need to define "usual"

Don’t you think the fact that they were successful merits a “more than usual” for a start?

Not if they have done it before. If you don't know what they usually do, then how do you know this is more?

Don't understand how this is a difficult concept here.

 

[iceberg]

but that would pretty much be like every election before and what we do to others around the world on an all too regular basis

I always challenge this assertion. I don’t see this as a normal thing. Can you remember the last time Russia jacked with our election?

Russia (then USSR) has a long history of attempting to interfere with our democratic process (with the aim of showing that democracy is inherently inferior), but you are right - this level of interference, on a multinational platform, is unprecedented.

and other than hacking the DNC, just what did they do?

i know of facebook ads. what else?

Is hacking the DNC and Podesta, with the subsequent release of the info, not significant enough? It was a major event during the campaign.

1. Who hacked the DNC and Podesta ?

2. Who released the info or how was it released ?

3. Was the info released steeped in lies or truth ?

4. What was the response by the DNC and Podesta for it's info being hacked, and subsequently that information being released ?

5. How did the hackers or anyone know of such information ?

6. Was the information first obtained by insiders who had an ax to grind, and it's information location then given over to the hackers ?

Where is all this information or the answers to it all now ? Is there so much information out there, that the scene has been flooded, and the DNC has been enjoying the chaos in it all by assigning blame or using it politically in order to regain power somehow ?

The DNC blaming Trump for everything because they hate him, and hate him for spurious reasons unrelated, seems to be grounded in what should be called "operation political chaos" by them, where as you gather up negative information in what ever form it takes or it comes in, and then attempt to apply it politically for nefarious reasons, and/or for other reasons not pertaining to the need to get to the bottom of anything, but just use it for future outcomes in hopes to sway future elections.

All that information is in the Mueller report. Russia hacked the DNC and Podesta. Russia released the hacked information. The DNC hired CrowdStrike to clean out their network. Hackers used phishing to gain access to the network. It was not some “inside job”.

Oh so Russia just happened to know that the DNC was dirty, and so they were assured that they could gain success on hurting their chances by hacking and releasing dirt on them ? Out of thin air, the Russians targeted the DNC without any help from inside the workings of the DNC ??

Nothing dirty in the hacks, just embarrassing.
The Russians are opportunistic and have attempted to hack a great many things, often successfully.

New Russian Hacking Targeted Republican Groups, Microsoft Says (Published 2018)

Microsoft was surprised not that recent “spear phishing” attempts had occurred, but that they targeted traditional conservative think tanks. Those groups have been critical of Russia.

www.nytimes.com

Russia Targeted Election Systems in All 50 States, Report Finds (Published 2019)

A Senate panel documented an effort largely undetected by state and federal officials at the time. But its report was so heavily redacted that key lessons for 2020 were blacked out.

www.nytimes.com

Merkel cites ‘hard evidence’ Russian hackers targeted her

German chancellor says improving ties with Moscow is challenging following a hacking attempt and a murder in Berlin.

www.aljazeera.com

You are like an ostrich with it head in the sand.

The Democrats used unverified Russian propaganda (Steele Dossier) to illegally obtain a FISA warrant in order to spy on the Trump campaign and, after that, Trump's Presidential transition team. It wasn't the Russians interfering with the election, it was the DNC attempting an old fashioned coup.

How do you get from FISA warrant on Carter Page to old fashioned coup? Where’s the connection between those two things?

i'm still looking to find out other than "potentially / likely" hacking the DNC and facebook ads, what russia did to interfere in our elections and how that was so much more than "normal" interfering activity.

I think there are factors here not being considered.

1. They have always attempted this sort of mischief with the goal of creating chaos and division, so this is nothing new.

2. The tools available and the playing field are drastically different. By playingfield, I mean the audience they can now reach and tbe divides they can exploit. The number of people connected to the internet has increased exponentially, far ahead of our ability to handle the information. One example I remember reading about involved a pro_white demonstration coordinated by an online group. There was a counter demonstration also organized. Both to demonstrate in the same are. Both tracing back to Russian organizers. Sothat is on, non po,itical example....how much more is out there? Each one exploiting and magnifying our divides and our trust in our democratic institutions.

you're telling me what they could do.
you're telling me people fall for stupid crap when it pits one extreme side against another. 100% agreed.

but i want to know specifically what russia did to interfere in our election that makes you and others say this is MORE than normal?

what is normal and how is this more? we can either answer that or write long posts that talk about how people bitch at each other online OF WHICH everyone in here is already well aware.

Well, I would say for a starter, their hacking of DNC and collaboration with wikileaksto strategically releases it is one example. I would also add their attempted hacks at voter registration and state electoral software. That wasn’t successful yet, but it certainly ups the ante.

Is there an article that states all their 2016 activity? Wiki is anyone can edit so not sure that applies here.

Wiki also sources,.

I still don't get a baseline of past activity we compare to. In order to say this is more than usual, we need to define "usual"

well...Wikipedia gives us the best sense of a timeline:Timeline of Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections - Wikipedia

I thought Russia hacked wiki for disinformation. Now you trust them as a source?

 

[beagle9]

but that would pretty much be like every election before and what we do to others around the world on an all too regular basis

I always challenge this assertion. I don’t see this as a normal thing. Can you remember the last time Russia jacked with our election?

Russia (then USSR) has a long history of attempting to interfere with our democratic process (with the aim of showing that democracy is inherently inferior), but you are right - this level of interference, on a multinational platform, is unprecedented.

and other than hacking the DNC, just what did they do?

i know of facebook ads. what else?

Is hacking the DNC and Podesta, with the subsequent release of the info, not significant enough? It was a major event during the campaign.

1. Who hacked the DNC and Podesta ?

2. Who released the info or how was it released ?

3. Was the info released steeped in lies or truth ?

4. What was the response by the DNC and Podesta for it's info being hacked, and subsequently that information being released ?

5. How did the hackers or anyone know of such information ?

6. Was the information first obtained by insiders who had an ax to grind, and it's information location then given over to the hackers ?

Where is all this information or the answers to it all now ? Is there so much information out there, that the scene has been flooded, and the DNC has been enjoying the chaos in it all by assigning blame or using it politically in order to regain power somehow ?

The DNC blaming Trump for everything because they hate him, and hate him for spurious reasons unrelated, seems to be grounded in what should be called "operation political chaos" by them, where as you gather up negative information in what ever form it takes or it comes in, and then attempt to apply it politically for nefarious reasons, and/or for other reasons not pertaining to the need to get to the bottom of anything, but just use it for future outcomes in hopes to sway future elections.

All that information is in the Mueller report. Russia hacked the DNC and Podesta. Russia released the hacked information. The DNC hired CrowdStrike to clean out their network. Hackers used phishing to gain access to the network. It was not some “inside job”.

Oh so Russia just happened to know that the DNC was dirty, and so they were assured that they could gain success on hurting their chances by hacking and releasing dirt on them ? Out of thin air, the Russians targeted the DNC without any help from inside the workings of the DNC ??

Nothing dirty in the hacks, just embarrassing.
The Russians are opportunistic and have attempted to hack a great many things, often successfully.

New Russian Hacking Targeted Republican Groups, Microsoft Says (Published 2018)

Microsoft was surprised not that recent “spear phishing” attempts had occurred, but that they targeted traditional conservative think tanks. Those groups have been critical of Russia.

www.nytimes.com

Russia Targeted Election Systems in All 50 States, Report Finds (Published 2019)

A Senate panel documented an effort largely undetected by state and federal officials at the time. But its report was so heavily redacted that key lessons for 2020 were blacked out.

www.nytimes.com

Merkel cites ‘hard evidence’ Russian hackers targeted her

German chancellor says improving ties with Moscow is challenging following a hacking attempt and a murder in Berlin.

www.aljazeera.com

You are like an ostrich with it head in the sand.

The Democrats used unverified Russian propaganda (Steele Dossier) to illegally obtain a FISA warrant in order to spy on the Trump campaign and, after that, Trump's Presidential transition team. It wasn't the Russians interfering with the election, it was the DNC attempting an old fashioned coup.

How do you get from FISA warrant on Carter Page to old fashioned coup? Where’s the connection between those two things?

i'm still looking to find out other than "potentially / likely" hacking the DNC and facebook ads, what russia did to interfere in our elections and how that was so much more than "normal" interfering activity.

So what crimes did Russia commit other than the totally illegal things they did to interfere in our election? That doesn’t sound like a very serious question. Read the Muller report volume one. There was a little more along the lines of troll farms and fake grassroots but the most sensational activity was hacking and dumping of emails. That’s enough. It was a major story during the campaign. Trump designed campaign strategy around the story which is why they were seeking coordination with Wikileaks.

I don’t think there is “normal” interfering. As your link pointed out, Russia really doesn’t interfere in our elections.

it's a very serious question since we keep referring to these crimes being linked to trump somehow. if we're going to ask why is one unmasking different than the other so we can get to the details, that's fine. i'm in.

but i want to know why whatever russia did was a "vast escalation" over past interferances.

what did they do before?
hacking DNC / $100k facebook ads - is this it that we're calling a mass escalation in interferance?

i want to be sure of what we are calling escalated crimes by russia before i agree they are in fact worse than past actions.

Hacking the DNC and the emails produced was headline news for weeks. It was one of the major stories during the campaign.

Yes. It was a huge escalation.

Huge escalation that didn't change not one American vote, but hey gotta use something to hide the broken Democrat party who decided that it was better to aggressively pursue policies that the American people hated and rebuked, otherwise instead of being the party of John Kennedy back in the day (ask not what your nation can do for you, but instead ask what you can do for your nation).

 

[iceberg]

but that would pretty much be like every election before and what we do to others around the world on an all too regular basis

I always challenge this assertion. I don’t see this as a normal thing. Can you remember the last time Russia jacked with our election?

Russia (then USSR) has a long history of attempting to interfere with our democratic process (with the aim of showing that democracy is inherently inferior), but you are right - this level of interference, on a multinational platform, is unprecedented.

and other than hacking the DNC, just what did they do?

i know of facebook ads. what else?

Is hacking the DNC and Podesta, with the subsequent release of the info, not significant enough? It was a major event during the campaign.

1. Who hacked the DNC and Podesta ?

2. Who released the info or how was it released ?

3. Was the info released steeped in lies or truth ?

4. What was the response by the DNC and Podesta for it's info being hacked, and subsequently that information being released ?

5. How did the hackers or anyone know of such information ?

6. Was the information first obtained by insiders who had an ax to grind, and it's information location then given over to the hackers ?

Where is all this information or the answers to it all now ? Is there so much information out there, that the scene has been flooded, and the DNC has been enjoying the chaos in it all by assigning blame or using it politically in order to regain power somehow ?

The DNC blaming Trump for everything because they hate him, and hate him for spurious reasons unrelated, seems to be grounded in what should be called "operation political chaos" by them, where as you gather up negative information in what ever form it takes or it comes in, and then attempt to apply it politically for nefarious reasons, and/or for other reasons not pertaining to the need to get to the bottom of anything, but just use it for future outcomes in hopes to sway future elections.

All that information is in the Mueller report. Russia hacked the DNC and Podesta. Russia released the hacked information. The DNC hired CrowdStrike to clean out their network. Hackers used phishing to gain access to the network. It was not some “inside job”.

Oh so Russia just happened to know that the DNC was dirty, and so they were assured that they could gain success on hurting their chances by hacking and releasing dirt on them ? Out of thin air, the Russians targeted the DNC without any help from inside the workings of the DNC ??

Nothing dirty in the hacks, just embarrassing.
The Russians are opportunistic and have attempted to hack a great many things, often successfully.

New Russian Hacking Targeted Republican Groups, Microsoft Says (Published 2018)

Microsoft was surprised not that recent “spear phishing” attempts had occurred, but that they targeted traditional conservative think tanks. Those groups have been critical of Russia.

www.nytimes.com

Russia Targeted Election Systems in All 50 States, Report Finds (Published 2019)

A Senate panel documented an effort largely undetected by state and federal officials at the time. But its report was so heavily redacted that key lessons for 2020 were blacked out.

www.nytimes.com

Merkel cites ‘hard evidence’ Russian hackers targeted her

German chancellor says improving ties with Moscow is challenging following a hacking attempt and a murder in Berlin.

www.aljazeera.com

You are like an ostrich with it head in the sand.

The Democrats used unverified Russian propaganda (Steele Dossier) to illegally obtain a FISA warrant in order to spy on the Trump campaign and, after that, Trump's Presidential transition team. It wasn't the Russians interfering with the election, it was the DNC attempting an old fashioned coup.

How do you get from FISA warrant on Carter Page to old fashioned coup? Where’s the connection between those two things?

i'm still looking to find out other than "potentially / likely" hacking the DNC and facebook ads, what russia did to interfere in our elections and how that was so much more than "normal" interfering activity.

So what crimes did Russia commit other than the totally illegal things they did to interfere in our election? That doesn’t sound like a very serious question. Read the Muller report volume one. There was a little more along the lines of troll farms and fake grassroots but the most sensational activity was hacking and dumping of emails. That’s enough. It was a major story during the campaign. Trump designed campaign strategy around the story which is why they were seeking coordination with Wikileaks.

I don’t think there is “normal” interfering. As your link pointed out, Russia really doesn’t interfere in our elections.

it's a very serious question since we keep referring to these crimes being linked to trump somehow. if we're going to ask why is one unmasking different than the other so we can get to the details, that's fine. i'm in.

but i want to know why whatever russia did was a "vast escalation" over past interferances.

what did they do before?
hacking DNC / $100k facebook ads - is this it that we're calling a mass escalation in interferance?

i want to be sure of what we are calling escalated crimes by russia before i agree they are in fact worse than past actions.

Hacking the DNC and the emails produced was headline news for weeks. It was one of the major stories during the campaign.

Yes. It was a huge escalation.

Huge escalation that didn't change not one American vote, but hey gotta use something to hide the broken Democrat party who decided that it was better to aggressively pursue policies that the American people hated and rebuked, otherwise instead of being the party of John Kennedy back in the day (ask not what your nation can do for you, but instead ask what you can do for your nation).

i cannot see how we call it a huge escalation if we have no idea what they were doing before.

having 5000 troops in a region. adding 50k more is a huge escalation. we have a baseline of which to say that. at this point no one can tell me what interference was pre-2016 so i have no idea how they can say russia amped up their efforts.

i can just as easily say 2016 russia toned down their efforts to interfere. we have zero baseline, so we can say what we want now.

 

[iceberg]

but that would pretty much be like every election before and what we do to others around the world on an all too regular basis

I always challenge this assertion. I don’t see this as a normal thing. Can you remember the last time Russia jacked with our election?

Russia (then USSR) has a long history of attempting to interfere with our democratic process (with the aim of showing that democracy is inherently inferior), but you are right - this level of interference, on a multinational platform, is unprecedented.

and other than hacking the DNC, just what did they do?

i know of facebook ads. what else?

Is hacking the DNC and Podesta, with the subsequent release of the info, not significant enough? It was a major event during the campaign.

1. Who hacked the DNC and Podesta ?

2. Who released the info or how was it released ?

3. Was the info released steeped in lies or truth ?

4. What was the response by the DNC and Podesta for it's info being hacked, and subsequently that information being released ?

5. How did the hackers or anyone know of such information ?

6. Was the information first obtained by insiders who had an ax to grind, and it's information location then given over to the hackers ?

Where is all this information or the answers to it all now ? Is there so much information out there, that the scene has been flooded, and the DNC has been enjoying the chaos in it all by assigning blame or using it politically in order to regain power somehow ?

The DNC blaming Trump for everything because they hate him, and hate him for spurious reasons unrelated, seems to be grounded in what should be called "operation political chaos" by them, where as you gather up negative information in what ever form it takes or it comes in, and then attempt to apply it politically for nefarious reasons, and/or for other reasons not pertaining to the need to get to the bottom of anything, but just use it for future outcomes in hopes to sway future elections.

All that information is in the Mueller report. Russia hacked the DNC and Podesta. Russia released the hacked information. The DNC hired CrowdStrike to clean out their network. Hackers used phishing to gain access to the network. It was not some “inside job”.

Oh so Russia just happened to know that the DNC was dirty, and so they were assured that they could gain success on hurting their chances by hacking and releasing dirt on them ? Out of thin air, the Russians targeted the DNC without any help from inside the workings of the DNC ??

Nothing dirty in the hacks, just embarrassing.
The Russians are opportunistic and have attempted to hack a great many things, often successfully.

New Russian Hacking Targeted Republican Groups, Microsoft Says (Published 2018)

Microsoft was surprised not that recent “spear phishing” attempts had occurred, but that they targeted traditional conservative think tanks. Those groups have been critical of Russia.

www.nytimes.com

Russia Targeted Election Systems in All 50 States, Report Finds (Published 2019)

A Senate panel documented an effort largely undetected by state and federal officials at the time. But its report was so heavily redacted that key lessons for 2020 were blacked out.

www.nytimes.com

Merkel cites ‘hard evidence’ Russian hackers targeted her

German chancellor says improving ties with Moscow is challenging following a hacking attempt and a murder in Berlin.

www.aljazeera.com

You are like an ostrich with it head in the sand.

The Democrats used unverified Russian propaganda (Steele Dossier) to illegally obtain a FISA warrant in order to spy on the Trump campaign and, after that, Trump's Presidential transition team. It wasn't the Russians interfering with the election, it was the DNC attempting an old fashioned coup.

How do you get from FISA warrant on Carter Page to old fashioned coup? Where’s the connection between those two things?

i'm still looking to find out other than "potentially / likely" hacking the DNC and facebook ads, what russia did to interfere in our elections and how that was so much more than "normal" interfering activity.

So what crimes did Russia commit other than the totally illegal things they did to interfere in our election? That doesn’t sound like a very serious question. Read the Muller report volume one. There was a little more along the lines of troll farms and fake grassroots but the most sensational activity was hacking and dumping of emails. That’s enough. It was a major story during the campaign. Trump designed campaign strategy around the story which is why they were seeking coordination with Wikileaks.

I don’t think there is “normal” interfering. As your link pointed out, Russia really doesn’t interfere in our elections.

Then there's Hillary bleach bitting, destroying evidence left and right, servers in bathroom's, but nothing at all to see here folks, nothing at all. It was the Russians I tell ya, the Russians are coming, the Russians are coming.

Hillary didn’t destroy evidence. Y’all got your panties in a wad because she used the wrong email address acting like it was the end of the world or something.

You act like her doing what she did was an accident.

As soon as she was asked for the mail, games started. A secretary of state running their own server should know gov mail retention policy and she did not follow it.

 

[colfax_m]

but that would pretty much be like every election before and what we do to others around the world on an all too regular basis

I always challenge this assertion. I don’t see this as a normal thing. Can you remember the last time Russia jacked with our election?

Russia (then USSR) has a long history of attempting to interfere with our democratic process (with the aim of showing that democracy is inherently inferior), but you are right - this level of interference, on a multinational platform, is unprecedented.

and other than hacking the DNC, just what did they do?

i know of facebook ads. what else?

Is hacking the DNC and Podesta, with the subsequent release of the info, not significant enough? It was a major event during the campaign.

1. Who hacked the DNC and Podesta ?

2. Who released the info or how was it released ?

3. Was the info released steeped in lies or truth ?

4. What was the response by the DNC and Podesta for it's info being hacked, and subsequently that information being released ?

5. How did the hackers or anyone know of such information ?

6. Was the information first obtained by insiders who had an ax to grind, and it's information location then given over to the hackers ?

Where is all this information or the answers to it all now ? Is there so much information out there, that the scene has been flooded, and the DNC has been enjoying the chaos in it all by assigning blame or using it politically in order to regain power somehow ?

The DNC blaming Trump for everything because they hate him, and hate him for spurious reasons unrelated, seems to be grounded in what should be called "operation political chaos" by them, where as you gather up negative information in what ever form it takes or it comes in, and then attempt to apply it politically for nefarious reasons, and/or for other reasons not pertaining to the need to get to the bottom of anything, but just use it for future outcomes in hopes to sway future elections.

All that information is in the Mueller report. Russia hacked the DNC and Podesta. Russia released the hacked information. The DNC hired CrowdStrike to clean out their network. Hackers used phishing to gain access to the network. It was not some “inside job”.

Oh so Russia just happened to know that the DNC was dirty, and so they were assured that they could gain success on hurting their chances by hacking and releasing dirt on them ? Out of thin air, the Russians targeted the DNC without any help from inside the workings of the DNC ??

Nothing dirty in the hacks, just embarrassing.
The Russians are opportunistic and have attempted to hack a great many things, often successfully.

New Russian Hacking Targeted Republican Groups, Microsoft Says (Published 2018)

Microsoft was surprised not that recent “spear phishing” attempts had occurred, but that they targeted traditional conservative think tanks. Those groups have been critical of Russia.

www.nytimes.com

Russia Targeted Election Systems in All 50 States, Report Finds (Published 2019)

A Senate panel documented an effort largely undetected by state and federal officials at the time. But its report was so heavily redacted that key lessons for 2020 were blacked out.

www.nytimes.com

Merkel cites ‘hard evidence’ Russian hackers targeted her

German chancellor says improving ties with Moscow is challenging following a hacking attempt and a murder in Berlin.

www.aljazeera.com

You are like an ostrich with it head in the sand.

The Democrats used unverified Russian propaganda (Steele Dossier) to illegally obtain a FISA warrant in order to spy on the Trump campaign and, after that, Trump's Presidential transition team. It wasn't the Russians interfering with the election, it was the DNC attempting an old fashioned coup.

How do you get from FISA warrant on Carter Page to old fashioned coup? Where’s the connection between those two things?

i'm still looking to find out other than "potentially / likely" hacking the DNC and facebook ads, what russia did to interfere in our elections and how that was so much more than "normal" interfering activity.

So what crimes did Russia commit other than the totally illegal things they did to interfere in our election? That doesn’t sound like a very serious question. Read the Muller report volume one. There was a little more along the lines of troll farms and fake grassroots but the most sensational activity was hacking and dumping of emails. That’s enough. It was a major story during the campaign. Trump designed campaign strategy around the story which is why they were seeking coordination with Wikileaks.

I don’t think there is “normal” interfering. As your link pointed out, Russia really doesn’t interfere in our elections.

Then there's Hillary bleach bitting, destroying evidence left and right, servers in bathroom's, but nothing at all to see here folks, nothing at all. It was the Russians I tell ya, the Russians are coming, the Russians are coming.

Hillary didn’t destroy evidence. Y’all got your panties in a wad because she used the wrong email address acting like it was the end of the world or something.

You act like her doing what she did was an accident.

As soon as she was asked for the mail, games started. A secretary of state running their own server should know gov mail retention policy and she did not follow it.

There seems to me to be an impression that her email server was used to cover up some vast criminal conspiracy. The evidence to support that just isn’t there.

 

[colfax_m]

but that would pretty much be like every election before and what we do to others around the world on an all too regular basis

I always challenge this assertion. I don’t see this as a normal thing. Can you remember the last time Russia jacked with our election?

Russia (then USSR) has a long history of attempting to interfere with our democratic process (with the aim of showing that democracy is inherently inferior), but you are right - this level of interference, on a multinational platform, is unprecedented.

and other than hacking the DNC, just what did they do?

i know of facebook ads. what else?

Is hacking the DNC and Podesta, with the subsequent release of the info, not significant enough? It was a major event during the campaign.

1. Who hacked the DNC and Podesta ?

2. Who released the info or how was it released ?

3. Was the info released steeped in lies or truth ?

4. What was the response by the DNC and Podesta for it's info being hacked, and subsequently that information being released ?

5. How did the hackers or anyone know of such information ?

6. Was the information first obtained by insiders who had an ax to grind, and it's information location then given over to the hackers ?

Where is all this information or the answers to it all now ? Is there so much information out there, that the scene has been flooded, and the DNC has been enjoying the chaos in it all by assigning blame or using it politically in order to regain power somehow ?

The DNC blaming Trump for everything because they hate him, and hate him for spurious reasons unrelated, seems to be grounded in what should be called "operation political chaos" by them, where as you gather up negative information in what ever form it takes or it comes in, and then attempt to apply it politically for nefarious reasons, and/or for other reasons not pertaining to the need to get to the bottom of anything, but just use it for future outcomes in hopes to sway future elections.

All that information is in the Mueller report. Russia hacked the DNC and Podesta. Russia released the hacked information. The DNC hired CrowdStrike to clean out their network. Hackers used phishing to gain access to the network. It was not some “inside job”.

Oh so Russia just happened to know that the DNC was dirty, and so they were assured that they could gain success on hurting their chances by hacking and releasing dirt on them ? Out of thin air, the Russians targeted the DNC without any help from inside the workings of the DNC ??

Nothing dirty in the hacks, just embarrassing.
The Russians are opportunistic and have attempted to hack a great many things, often successfully.

New Russian Hacking Targeted Republican Groups, Microsoft Says (Published 2018)

Microsoft was surprised not that recent “spear phishing” attempts had occurred, but that they targeted traditional conservative think tanks. Those groups have been critical of Russia.

www.nytimes.com

Russia Targeted Election Systems in All 50 States, Report Finds (Published 2019)

A Senate panel documented an effort largely undetected by state and federal officials at the time. But its report was so heavily redacted that key lessons for 2020 were blacked out.

www.nytimes.com

Merkel cites ‘hard evidence’ Russian hackers targeted her

German chancellor says improving ties with Moscow is challenging following a hacking attempt and a murder in Berlin.

www.aljazeera.com

You are like an ostrich with it head in the sand.

The Democrats used unverified Russian propaganda (Steele Dossier) to illegally obtain a FISA warrant in order to spy on the Trump campaign and, after that, Trump's Presidential transition team. It wasn't the Russians interfering with the election, it was the DNC attempting an old fashioned coup.

How do you get from FISA warrant on Carter Page to old fashioned coup? Where’s the connection between those two things?

i'm still looking to find out other than "potentially / likely" hacking the DNC and facebook ads, what russia did to interfere in our elections and how that was so much more than "normal" interfering activity.

So what crimes did Russia commit other than the totally illegal things they did to interfere in our election? That doesn’t sound like a very serious question. Read the Muller report volume one. There was a little more along the lines of troll farms and fake grassroots but the most sensational activity was hacking and dumping of emails. That’s enough. It was a major story during the campaign. Trump designed campaign strategy around the story which is why they were seeking coordination with Wikileaks.

I don’t think there is “normal” interfering. As your link pointed out, Russia really doesn’t interfere in our elections.

it's a very serious question since we keep referring to these crimes being linked to trump somehow. if we're going to ask why is one unmasking different than the other so we can get to the details, that's fine. i'm in.

but i want to know why whatever russia did was a "vast escalation" over past interferances.

what did they do before?
hacking DNC / $100k facebook ads - is this it that we're calling a mass escalation in interferance?

i want to be sure of what we are calling escalated crimes by russia before i agree they are in fact worse than past actions.

Hacking the DNC and the emails produced was headline news for weeks. It was one of the major stories during the campaign.

Yes. It was a huge escalation.

Huge escalation that didn't change not one American vote, but hey gotta use something to hide the broken Democrat party who decided that it was better to aggressively pursue policies that the American people hated and rebuked, otherwise instead of being the party of John Kennedy back in the day (ask not what your nation can do for you, but instead ask what you can do for your nation).

How do you know the release of that information didn’t change one American vote? Seems like that’s an unknowable statement. What we do know is that Trump and his team were elated at the hacking and dumping, used them as part of their campaign and it was a major story during the campaign.

 

[colfax_m]

but that would pretty much be like every election before and what we do to others around the world on an all too regular basis

I always challenge this assertion. I don’t see this as a normal thing. Can you remember the last time Russia jacked with our election?

Russia (then USSR) has a long history of attempting to interfere with our democratic process (with the aim of showing that democracy is inherently inferior), but you are right - this level of interference, on a multinational platform, is unprecedented.

and other than hacking the DNC, just what did they do?

i know of facebook ads. what else?

Is hacking the DNC and Podesta, with the subsequent release of the info, not significant enough? It was a major event during the campaign.

1. Who hacked the DNC and Podesta ?

2. Who released the info or how was it released ?

3. Was the info released steeped in lies or truth ?

4. What was the response by the DNC and Podesta for it's info being hacked, and subsequently that information being released ?

5. How did the hackers or anyone know of such information ?

6. Was the information first obtained by insiders who had an ax to grind, and it's information location then given over to the hackers ?

Where is all this information or the answers to it all now ? Is there so much information out there, that the scene has been flooded, and the DNC has been enjoying the chaos in it all by assigning blame or using it politically in order to regain power somehow ?

The DNC blaming Trump for everything because they hate him, and hate him for spurious reasons unrelated, seems to be grounded in what should be called "operation political chaos" by them, where as you gather up negative information in what ever form it takes or it comes in, and then attempt to apply it politically for nefarious reasons, and/or for other reasons not pertaining to the need to get to the bottom of anything, but just use it for future outcomes in hopes to sway future elections.

All that information is in the Mueller report. Russia hacked the DNC and Podesta. Russia released the hacked information. The DNC hired CrowdStrike to clean out their network. Hackers used phishing to gain access to the network. It was not some “inside job”.

Oh so Russia just happened to know that the DNC was dirty, and so they were assured that they could gain success on hurting their chances by hacking and releasing dirt on them ? Out of thin air, the Russians targeted the DNC without any help from inside the workings of the DNC ??

Nothing dirty in the hacks, just embarrassing.
The Russians are opportunistic and have attempted to hack a great many things, often successfully.

New Russian Hacking Targeted Republican Groups, Microsoft Says (Published 2018)

Microsoft was surprised not that recent “spear phishing” attempts had occurred, but that they targeted traditional conservative think tanks. Those groups have been critical of Russia.

www.nytimes.com

Russia Targeted Election Systems in All 50 States, Report Finds (Published 2019)

A Senate panel documented an effort largely undetected by state and federal officials at the time. But its report was so heavily redacted that key lessons for 2020 were blacked out.

www.nytimes.com

Merkel cites ‘hard evidence’ Russian hackers targeted her

German chancellor says improving ties with Moscow is challenging following a hacking attempt and a murder in Berlin.

www.aljazeera.com

You are like an ostrich with it head in the sand.

The Democrats used unverified Russian propaganda (Steele Dossier) to illegally obtain a FISA warrant in order to spy on the Trump campaign and, after that, Trump's Presidential transition team. It wasn't the Russians interfering with the election, it was the DNC attempting an old fashioned coup.

How do you get from FISA warrant on Carter Page to old fashioned coup? Where’s the connection between those two things?

i'm still looking to find out other than "potentially / likely" hacking the DNC and facebook ads, what russia did to interfere in our elections and how that was so much more than "normal" interfering activity.

So what crimes did Russia commit other than the totally illegal things they did to interfere in our election? That doesn’t sound like a very serious question. Read the Muller report volume one. There was a little more along the lines of troll farms and fake grassroots but the most sensational activity was hacking and dumping of emails. That’s enough. It was a major story during the campaign. Trump designed campaign strategy around the story which is why they were seeking coordination with Wikileaks.

I don’t think there is “normal” interfering. As your link pointed out, Russia really doesn’t interfere in our elections.

it's a very serious question since we keep referring to these crimes being linked to trump somehow. if we're going to ask why is one unmasking different than the other so we can get to the details, that's fine. i'm in.

but i want to know why whatever russia did was a "vast escalation" over past interferances.

what did they do before?
hacking DNC / $100k facebook ads - is this it that we're calling a mass escalation in interferance?

i want to be sure of what we are calling escalated crimes by russia before i agree they are in fact worse than past actions.

Hacking the DNC and the emails produced was headline news for weeks. It was one of the major stories during the campaign.

Yes. It was a huge escalation.

Huge escalation that didn't change not one American vote, but hey gotta use something to hide the broken Democrat party who decided that it was better to aggressively pursue policies that the American people hated and rebuked, otherwise instead of being the party of John Kennedy back in the day (ask not what your nation can do for you, but instead ask what you can do for your nation).

i cannot see how we call it a huge escalation if we have no idea what they were doing before.

having 5000 troops in a region. adding 50k more is a huge escalation. we have a baseline of which to say that. at this point no one can tell me what interference was pre-2016 so i have no idea how they can say russia amped up their efforts.

i can just as easily say 2016 russia toned down their efforts to interfere. we have zero baseline, so we can say what we want now.

Didn’t you claim not long ago that Russia interferes ever election? Now we don’t know?

You could claim that Russia toned anything down but it would not be supported by any factual basis. Just complete speculation.

 

[colfax_m]

but that would pretty much be like every election before and what we do to others around the world on an all too regular basis

I always challenge this assertion. I don’t see this as a normal thing. Can you remember the last time Russia jacked with our election?

Russia (then USSR) has a long history of attempting to interfere with our democratic process (with the aim of showing that democracy is inherently inferior), but you are right - this level of interference, on a multinational platform, is unprecedented.

and other than hacking the DNC, just what did they do?

i know of facebook ads. what else?

Is hacking the DNC and Podesta, with the subsequent release of the info, not significant enough? It was a major event during the campaign.

1. Who hacked the DNC and Podesta ?

2. Who released the info or how was it released ?

3. Was the info released steeped in lies or truth ?

4. What was the response by the DNC and Podesta for it's info being hacked, and subsequently that information being released ?

5. How did the hackers or anyone know of such information ?

6. Was the information first obtained by insiders who had an ax to grind, and it's information location then given over to the hackers ?

Where is all this information or the answers to it all now ? Is there so much information out there, that the scene has been flooded, and the DNC has been enjoying the chaos in it all by assigning blame or using it politically in order to regain power somehow ?

The DNC blaming Trump for everything because they hate him, and hate him for spurious reasons unrelated, seems to be grounded in what should be called "operation political chaos" by them, where as you gather up negative information in what ever form it takes or it comes in, and then attempt to apply it politically for nefarious reasons, and/or for other reasons not pertaining to the need to get to the bottom of anything, but just use it for future outcomes in hopes to sway future elections.

All that information is in the Mueller report. Russia hacked the DNC and Podesta. Russia released the hacked information. The DNC hired CrowdStrike to clean out their network. Hackers used phishing to gain access to the network. It was not some “inside job”.

Oh so Russia just happened to know that the DNC was dirty, and so they were assured that they could gain success on hurting their chances by hacking and releasing dirt on them ? Out of thin air, the Russians targeted the DNC without any help from inside the workings of the DNC ??

Nothing dirty in the hacks, just embarrassing.
The Russians are opportunistic and have attempted to hack a great many things, often successfully.

New Russian Hacking Targeted Republican Groups, Microsoft Says (Published 2018)

Microsoft was surprised not that recent “spear phishing” attempts had occurred, but that they targeted traditional conservative think tanks. Those groups have been critical of Russia.

www.nytimes.com

Russia Targeted Election Systems in All 50 States, Report Finds (Published 2019)

A Senate panel documented an effort largely undetected by state and federal officials at the time. But its report was so heavily redacted that key lessons for 2020 were blacked out.

www.nytimes.com

Merkel cites ‘hard evidence’ Russian hackers targeted her

German chancellor says improving ties with Moscow is challenging following a hacking attempt and a murder in Berlin.

www.aljazeera.com

You are like an ostrich with it head in the sand.

The Democrats used unverified Russian propaganda (Steele Dossier) to illegally obtain a FISA warrant in order to spy on the Trump campaign and, after that, Trump's Presidential transition team. It wasn't the Russians interfering with the election, it was the DNC attempting an old fashioned coup.

How do you get from FISA warrant on Carter Page to old fashioned coup? Where’s the connection between those two things?

i'm still looking to find out other than "potentially / likely" hacking the DNC and facebook ads, what russia did to interfere in our elections and how that was so much more than "normal" interfering activity.

I think there are factors here not being considered.

1. They have always attempted this sort of mischief with the goal of creating chaos and division, so this is nothing new.

2. The tools available and the playing field are drastically different. By playingfield, I mean the audience they can now reach and tbe divides they can exploit. The number of people connected to the internet has increased exponentially, far ahead of our ability to handle the information. One example I remember reading about involved a pro_white demonstration coordinated by an online group. There was a counter demonstration also organized. Both to demonstrate in the same are. Both tracing back to Russian organizers. Sothat is on, non po,itical example....how much more is out there? Each one exploiting and magnifying our divides and our trust in our democratic institutions.

you're telling me what they could do.
you're telling me people fall for stupid crap when it pits one extreme side against another. 100% agreed.

but i want to know specifically what russia did to interfere in our election that makes you and others say this is MORE than normal?

what is normal and how is this more? we can either answer that or write long posts that talk about how people bitch at each other online OF WHICH everyone in here is already well aware.

Well, I would say for a starter, their hacking of DNC and collaboration with wikileaksto strategically releases it is one example. I would also add their attempted hacks at voter registration and state electoral software. That wasn’t successful yet, but it certainly ups the ante.

Is there an article that states all their 2016 activity? Wiki is anyone can edit so not sure that applies here.

Wiki also sources,.

I still don't get a baseline of past activity we compare to. In order to say this is more than usual, we need to define "usual"

well...Wikipedia gives us the best sense of a timeline:Timeline of Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections - Wikipedia

And the Democrats were happy to use Russian disinformation to get a FISA warrant to spy on Trump's campaign and his staff.

Democrats don’t get FISA warrants. The DoJ does.

 

[iceberg]

but that would pretty much be like every election before and what we do to others around the world on an all too regular basis

I always challenge this assertion. I don’t see this as a normal thing. Can you remember the last time Russia jacked with our election?

Russia (then USSR) has a long history of attempting to interfere with our democratic process (with the aim of showing that democracy is inherently inferior), but you are right - this level of interference, on a multinational platform, is unprecedented.

and other than hacking the DNC, just what did they do?

i know of facebook ads. what else?

Is hacking the DNC and Podesta, with the subsequent release of the info, not significant enough? It was a major event during the campaign.

1. Who hacked the DNC and Podesta ?

2. Who released the info or how was it released ?

3. Was the info released steeped in lies or truth ?

4. What was the response by the DNC and Podesta for it's info being hacked, and subsequently that information being released ?

5. How did the hackers or anyone know of such information ?

6. Was the information first obtained by insiders who had an ax to grind, and it's information location then given over to the hackers ?

Where is all this information or the answers to it all now ? Is there so much information out there, that the scene has been flooded, and the DNC has been enjoying the chaos in it all by assigning blame or using it politically in order to regain power somehow ?

The DNC blaming Trump for everything because they hate him, and hate him for spurious reasons unrelated, seems to be grounded in what should be called "operation political chaos" by them, where as you gather up negative information in what ever form it takes or it comes in, and then attempt to apply it politically for nefarious reasons, and/or for other reasons not pertaining to the need to get to the bottom of anything, but just use it for future outcomes in hopes to sway future elections.

All that information is in the Mueller report. Russia hacked the DNC and Podesta. Russia released the hacked information. The DNC hired CrowdStrike to clean out their network. Hackers used phishing to gain access to the network. It was not some “inside job”.

Oh so Russia just happened to know that the DNC was dirty, and so they were assured that they could gain success on hurting their chances by hacking and releasing dirt on them ? Out of thin air, the Russians targeted the DNC without any help from inside the workings of the DNC ??

Nothing dirty in the hacks, just embarrassing.
The Russians are opportunistic and have attempted to hack a great many things, often successfully.

New Russian Hacking Targeted Republican Groups, Microsoft Says (Published 2018)

Microsoft was surprised not that recent “spear phishing” attempts had occurred, but that they targeted traditional conservative think tanks. Those groups have been critical of Russia.

www.nytimes.com

Russia Targeted Election Systems in All 50 States, Report Finds (Published 2019)

A Senate panel documented an effort largely undetected by state and federal officials at the time. But its report was so heavily redacted that key lessons for 2020 were blacked out.

www.nytimes.com

Merkel cites ‘hard evidence’ Russian hackers targeted her

German chancellor says improving ties with Moscow is challenging following a hacking attempt and a murder in Berlin.

www.aljazeera.com

You are like an ostrich with it head in the sand.

The Democrats used unverified Russian propaganda (Steele Dossier) to illegally obtain a FISA warrant in order to spy on the Trump campaign and, after that, Trump's Presidential transition team. It wasn't the Russians interfering with the election, it was the DNC attempting an old fashioned coup.

How do you get from FISA warrant on Carter Page to old fashioned coup? Where’s the connection between those two things?

i'm still looking to find out other than "potentially / likely" hacking the DNC and facebook ads, what russia did to interfere in our elections and how that was so much more than "normal" interfering activity.

So what crimes did Russia commit other than the totally illegal things they did to interfere in our election? That doesn’t sound like a very serious question. Read the Muller report volume one. There was a little more along the lines of troll farms and fake grassroots but the most sensational activity was hacking and dumping of emails. That’s enough. It was a major story during the campaign. Trump designed campaign strategy around the story which is why they were seeking coordination with Wikileaks.

I don’t think there is “normal” interfering. As your link pointed out, Russia really doesn’t interfere in our elections.

Then there's Hillary bleach bitting, destroying evidence left and right, servers in bathroom's, but nothing at all to see here folks, nothing at all. It was the Russians I tell ya, the Russians are coming, the Russians are coming.

Hillary didn’t destroy evidence. Y’all got your panties in a wad because she used the wrong email address acting like it was the end of the world or something.

You act like her doing what she did was an accident.

As soon as she was asked for the mail, games started. A secretary of state running their own server should know gov mail retention policy and she did not follow it.

There seems to me to be an impression that her email server was used to cover up some vast criminal conspiracy. The evidence to support that just isn’t there.

well we would have a better idea if that were the case if she has not pretty much destroyed the physical nature of her server to keep anyone from knowing what was on there.

are you trying to tell me her actions after being asked for the mail was not suspicious?

i have zero idea if she did it to cover something up because the data necessary to determine that was removed by said person. i would have a problem with this regardless of who did it.

 

[iceberg]

but that would pretty much be like every election before and what we do to others around the world on an all too regular basis

I always challenge this assertion. I don’t see this as a normal thing. Can you remember the last time Russia jacked with our election?

Russia (then USSR) has a long history of attempting to interfere with our democratic process (with the aim of showing that democracy is inherently inferior), but you are right - this level of interference, on a multinational platform, is unprecedented.

and other than hacking the DNC, just what did they do?

i know of facebook ads. what else?

Is hacking the DNC and Podesta, with the subsequent release of the info, not significant enough? It was a major event during the campaign.

1. Who hacked the DNC and Podesta ?

2. Who released the info or how was it released ?

3. Was the info released steeped in lies or truth ?

4. What was the response by the DNC and Podesta for it's info being hacked, and subsequently that information being released ?

5. How did the hackers or anyone know of such information ?

6. Was the information first obtained by insiders who had an ax to grind, and it's information location then given over to the hackers ?

Where is all this information or the answers to it all now ? Is there so much information out there, that the scene has been flooded, and the DNC has been enjoying the chaos in it all by assigning blame or using it politically in order to regain power somehow ?

The DNC blaming Trump for everything because they hate him, and hate him for spurious reasons unrelated, seems to be grounded in what should be called "operation political chaos" by them, where as you gather up negative information in what ever form it takes or it comes in, and then attempt to apply it politically for nefarious reasons, and/or for other reasons not pertaining to the need to get to the bottom of anything, but just use it for future outcomes in hopes to sway future elections.

All that information is in the Mueller report. Russia hacked the DNC and Podesta. Russia released the hacked information. The DNC hired CrowdStrike to clean out their network. Hackers used phishing to gain access to the network. It was not some “inside job”.

Oh so Russia just happened to know that the DNC was dirty, and so they were assured that they could gain success on hurting their chances by hacking and releasing dirt on them ? Out of thin air, the Russians targeted the DNC without any help from inside the workings of the DNC ??

Nothing dirty in the hacks, just embarrassing.
The Russians are opportunistic and have attempted to hack a great many things, often successfully.

New Russian Hacking Targeted Republican Groups, Microsoft Says (Published 2018)

Microsoft was surprised not that recent “spear phishing” attempts had occurred, but that they targeted traditional conservative think tanks. Those groups have been critical of Russia.

www.nytimes.com

Russia Targeted Election Systems in All 50 States, Report Finds (Published 2019)

A Senate panel documented an effort largely undetected by state and federal officials at the time. But its report was so heavily redacted that key lessons for 2020 were blacked out.

www.nytimes.com

Merkel cites ‘hard evidence’ Russian hackers targeted her

German chancellor says improving ties with Moscow is challenging following a hacking attempt and a murder in Berlin.

www.aljazeera.com

You are like an ostrich with it head in the sand.

The Democrats used unverified Russian propaganda (Steele Dossier) to illegally obtain a FISA warrant in order to spy on the Trump campaign and, after that, Trump's Presidential transition team. It wasn't the Russians interfering with the election, it was the DNC attempting an old fashioned coup.

How do you get from FISA warrant on Carter Page to old fashioned coup? Where’s the connection between those two things?

i'm still looking to find out other than "potentially / likely" hacking the DNC and facebook ads, what russia did to interfere in our elections and how that was so much more than "normal" interfering activity.

So what crimes did Russia commit other than the totally illegal things they did to interfere in our election? That doesn’t sound like a very serious question. Read the Muller report volume one. There was a little more along the lines of troll farms and fake grassroots but the most sensational activity was hacking and dumping of emails. That’s enough. It was a major story during the campaign. Trump designed campaign strategy around the story which is why they were seeking coordination with Wikileaks.

I don’t think there is “normal” interfering. As your link pointed out, Russia really doesn’t interfere in our elections.

it's a very serious question since we keep referring to these crimes being linked to trump somehow. if we're going to ask why is one unmasking different than the other so we can get to the details, that's fine. i'm in.

but i want to know why whatever russia did was a "vast escalation" over past interferances.

what did they do before?
hacking DNC / $100k facebook ads - is this it that we're calling a mass escalation in interferance?

i want to be sure of what we are calling escalated crimes by russia before i agree they are in fact worse than past actions.

Hacking the DNC and the emails produced was headline news for weeks. It was one of the major stories during the campaign.

Yes. It was a huge escalation.

Huge escalation that didn't change not one American vote, but hey gotta use something to hide the broken Democrat party who decided that it was better to aggressively pursue policies that the American people hated and rebuked, otherwise instead of being the party of John Kennedy back in the day (ask not what your nation can do for you, but instead ask what you can do for your nation).

i cannot see how we call it a huge escalation if we have no idea what they were doing before.

having 5000 troops in a region. adding 50k more is a huge escalation. we have a baseline of which to say that. at this point no one can tell me what interference was pre-2016 so i have no idea how they can say russia amped up their efforts.

i can just as easily say 2016 russia toned down their efforts to interfere. we have zero baseline, so we can say what we want now.

Didn’t you claim not long ago that Russia interferes ever election? Now we don’t know?

You could claim that Russia toned anything down but it would not be supported by any factual basis. Just complete speculation.

yes. i did. and we agreed it's been happening since WW2 more or less in some fashion.

from there i keep hearing you and coyote say 2016 they ramped up their efforts. now in order to say they ramped up their efforts, they would have to be seen as doing MORE in 2016 than ever before.

now - what did they do in 2012? 2008? 2004? 2000? 1996? 1992?

you can't say they ramped up 2016 w/o a baseline to go off of. it's amazing to me this concept is getting lost or dovetailed into something else.

 

[iceberg]

but that would pretty much be like every election before and what we do to others around the world on an all too regular basis

I always challenge this assertion. I don’t see this as a normal thing. Can you remember the last time Russia jacked with our election?

Russia (then USSR) has a long history of attempting to interfere with our democratic process (with the aim of showing that democracy is inherently inferior), but you are right - this level of interference, on a multinational platform, is unprecedented.

and other than hacking the DNC, just what did they do?

i know of facebook ads. what else?

Is hacking the DNC and Podesta, with the subsequent release of the info, not significant enough? It was a major event during the campaign.

1. Who hacked the DNC and Podesta ?

2. Who released the info or how was it released ?

3. Was the info released steeped in lies or truth ?

4. What was the response by the DNC and Podesta for it's info being hacked, and subsequently that information being released ?

5. How did the hackers or anyone know of such information ?

6. Was the information first obtained by insiders who had an ax to grind, and it's information location then given over to the hackers ?

Where is all this information or the answers to it all now ? Is there so much information out there, that the scene has been flooded, and the DNC has been enjoying the chaos in it all by assigning blame or using it politically in order to regain power somehow ?

The DNC blaming Trump for everything because they hate him, and hate him for spurious reasons unrelated, seems to be grounded in what should be called "operation political chaos" by them, where as you gather up negative information in what ever form it takes or it comes in, and then attempt to apply it politically for nefarious reasons, and/or for other reasons not pertaining to the need to get to the bottom of anything, but just use it for future outcomes in hopes to sway future elections.

All that information is in the Mueller report. Russia hacked the DNC and Podesta. Russia released the hacked information. The DNC hired CrowdStrike to clean out their network. Hackers used phishing to gain access to the network. It was not some “inside job”.

Oh so Russia just happened to know that the DNC was dirty, and so they were assured that they could gain success on hurting their chances by hacking and releasing dirt on them ? Out of thin air, the Russians targeted the DNC without any help from inside the workings of the DNC ??

Nothing dirty in the hacks, just embarrassing.
The Russians are opportunistic and have attempted to hack a great many things, often successfully.

New Russian Hacking Targeted Republican Groups, Microsoft Says (Published 2018)

Microsoft was surprised not that recent “spear phishing” attempts had occurred, but that they targeted traditional conservative think tanks. Those groups have been critical of Russia.

www.nytimes.com

Russia Targeted Election Systems in All 50 States, Report Finds (Published 2019)

A Senate panel documented an effort largely undetected by state and federal officials at the time. But its report was so heavily redacted that key lessons for 2020 were blacked out.

www.nytimes.com

Merkel cites ‘hard evidence’ Russian hackers targeted her

German chancellor says improving ties with Moscow is challenging following a hacking attempt and a murder in Berlin.

www.aljazeera.com

You are like an ostrich with it head in the sand.

The Democrats used unverified Russian propaganda (Steele Dossier) to illegally obtain a FISA warrant in order to spy on the Trump campaign and, after that, Trump's Presidential transition team. It wasn't the Russians interfering with the election, it was the DNC attempting an old fashioned coup.

How do you get from FISA warrant on Carter Page to old fashioned coup? Where’s the connection between those two things?

i'm still looking to find out other than "potentially / likely" hacking the DNC and facebook ads, what russia did to interfere in our elections and how that was so much more than "normal" interfering activity.

So what crimes did Russia commit other than the totally illegal things they did to interfere in our election? That doesn’t sound like a very serious question. Read the Muller report volume one. There was a little more along the lines of troll farms and fake grassroots but the most sensational activity was hacking and dumping of emails. That’s enough. It was a major story during the campaign. Trump designed campaign strategy around the story which is why they were seeking coordination with Wikileaks.

I don’t think there is “normal” interfering. As your link pointed out, Russia really doesn’t interfere in our elections.

it's a very serious question since we keep referring to these crimes being linked to trump somehow. if we're going to ask why is one unmasking different than the other so we can get to the details, that's fine. i'm in.

but i want to know why whatever russia did was a "vast escalation" over past interferances.

what did they do before?
hacking DNC / $100k facebook ads - is this it that we're calling a mass escalation in interferance?

i want to be sure of what we are calling escalated crimes by russia before i agree they are in fact worse than past actions.

Hacking the DNC and the emails produced was headline news for weeks. It was one of the major stories during the campaign.

Yes. It was a huge escalation.

Huge escalation that didn't change not one American vote, but hey gotta use something to hide the broken Democrat party who decided that it was better to aggressively pursue policies that the American people hated and rebuked, otherwise instead of being the party of John Kennedy back in the day (ask not what your nation can do for you, but instead ask what you can do for your nation).

How do you know the release of that information didn’t change one American vote? Seems like that’s an unknowable statement. What we do know is that Trump and his team were elated at the hacking and dumping, used them as part of their campaign and it was a major story during the campaign.

unknowable is also how much Russia ramped up their interference without knowing the baseline of normal interference.

 

[colfax_m]

yes. i did. and we agreed it's been happening since WW2 more or less in some fashion.

Nope. No we did not. We did not agree. You’re all over the place. At first you say this is no different than what they do ever election. Then you say we have no idea what they do every election. Now you’re back to saying it’s been happening since WW2 “more or less”.

Pick a lane.

We have no evidence of any involvement like this before. That’s what we can say. It’s justifiable because the attempts of Russian influence have failed miserably for decades until now.