BREAKING: 200+ “Militarized” Federal Police Surround Peaceful Rancher in Nevada

[Againsheila]

so the children that died were not peaceful

David Koresh bears full responsibility.

The BATF wanted to make a big production so they could go to Congress at appropriations time and justify their budgets. They could have done their searches any number of ways, but they chose the Rambo approach because it would be exciting on a video shown to Congress.

The Batmen bear at least as much responsibility to the Waco clusterfuck as Koresh does.

There was absolutely no reason to storm the buildings, no one had attempted to leave,

So as long as you stay home after you murder someone .... you're in the clear ????

That all depends on who did the murdering. Koresh was hit when he opened the front door to greet the officers. Doesn't appear that he was looking for a shootout. If the ATF fired first, then they were the murderers.

The ATF went looking for a show. Even invited the TV cameras to the party. They got the show they were looking for.

The FBI lost their case, in my humble opinion, when they bulldozed the site to prevent the Texas Rangers from conducting an investigation into who fired first. They destroyed all the evidence for a reason. And, that reason was to protect themselves.

According to some of the survivors, they were shot at by the feds when they tried to flee the burning building. At least one of the people was shot dead, and he didn't have a weapon on him.

 

[Erand7899]

BREAKING: 200+ “Militarized” Federal Police Surround Peaceful Rancher in Nevada

The "peaceful rancher" has not paid grazing fees to the US government for twenty years, argues federal land is really state land, and made threats to do whatever it took to prevent the feds from rounding up his stock.

No one had, Jake. It wasn't until the long lost tortoise appeared that it went off the rails. Something doesn't add up. I'm sure the story will continue to develop and we'll see if military action is taken over a few turtles. The fed govt. don't have the right to steal his cattle. Under any circumstances. They should back off.

The rancher has no right to not pay We the People fees for our land.

So, yeah, govt rounding up the cattle is perfectly acceptable.

I seriously doubt that the fees are the cause of this standoff. More than likely, the range was closed off to cattle grazing to protect the turtles, and that put the rancher in a serious financial bind. It looks like he moved his cattle onto the public lands anyway.

BTW, this is not the first time that BLM has pulled this kind of BS. Utah is about 90% public land, and most of the roads and highways in Utah run across public lands at some point. If the state puts in for a permit to fix a state road, the BLM denies it for environmental reasons. The state has to maintain the roads, so there is a constant battle going on between the state and BLM.

In Colorado, which also has a lot of BLM land and National Forest land, the two agencies are constantly attempting to erase roads and trails that cross those public lands. Overall, there is an effort by the federal government to close off these public lands to the public who owns them.

 

[Uncensored2008]

According to some of the survivors, they were shot at by the feds when they tried to flee the burning building. At least one of the people was shot dead, and he didn't have a weapon on him.

According to ALL of the survivors, and the news crews who shadowed the BATF, the feds opened fire immediately, without making any attempt to serve the warrant.

Did I mention the warrant was gained on perjured testimony?

And maybe our legal expert Jillian can explain this;

{After a jury trial lasting nearly two months, the jury acquitted four of the Branch Davidians on all charges. Additionally, the jury acquitted all of the Branch Davidians on the murder-related charges, but convicted five of them on lesser charges, including aiding and abetting the voluntary manslaughter of federal agents.[85] }

Waco siege - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What? Not even one conviction for murder? Not even one conviction of child abuse? Not even one conviction for automatic weapons? Not even one conviction for explosives?

 

[nodoginnafight]

There was absolutely no reason to storm the buildings, no one had attempted to leave,

So as long as you stay home after you murder someone .... you're in the clear ????

That all depends on who did the murdering. Koresh was hit when he opened the front door to greet the officers. Doesn't appear that he was looking for a shootout. If the ATF fired first, then they were the murderers.

The ATF went looking for a show. Even invited the TV cameras to the party. They got the show they were looking for.

The FBI lost their case, in my humble opinion, when they bulldozed the site to prevent the Texas Rangers from conducting an investigation into who fired first. They destroyed all the evidence for a reason. And, that reason was to protect themselves.

Koresh and his cultists killed first. There is no question about that. Lotta blood on that guy's hands. Why would anyone feel the need to try to re-write history to idolize a murderer - I'll never know.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

If they start killing you first - damn straight.

Somebody tries to sneak in my 2nd floor bedroom window and I have a gun, I'm gonna shoot too.

sneak in with a warrant - when you knocked on the front door and got shot at first.

The Turner Diaries isn't giving you the real story.

No holes in any cars from the direction of the compound no holes from the inside of the compound on the outer door. There is no evidence the davidians fired first. And what evidence survived the firestorm the feds started was somehow lost when the Congress went to investigate.

 

[nodoginnafight]

So since I've "lost" it should be no problem for someone to tell me what I'm getting in return for letting this guy run his commercial enterprise on my land for free? I don't want to hike or camp in a pile of cow shit. So the part he is using is not useable to the rest of us. What is this freeloader giving us in return?

Yet, you can hike and camp use ATVs and drive cars polluting the land, you can do this unregulated for free,( as long as you don't mess with the rock art) your horse can crap all over the place and eat the grass. You will probably pee and poo on the land if staying for any amount of time for free.

You can use the land as a virtual hotel for as long as you like and camp and build fires to warm your butt at night, leaving the land scarred from the fire and your horse trampling all over the land. Your car and ATVs can scar the land, your feet can do the same. Your dog and cat can pee and poo all over the land if you choose to bring it.

Guess what ,you can hunt there, fish there, you can pan for gold there. Gaining a profit for yourself in all of the aforementioned items. You can photograph the area and sell the photos if you are good enough and make money from the area. You can sustain yourself off the land for free as long as you want as there is nothing to regulate how long you stay.

Perhaps he does not appreciate that. But you can do it, cant you? And you don't have to pay him a dime. You can do all of the above for free.

About Gold Butte | Friends of Gold Butte

Gold Butte Region - Area Overview

You can cip, dive, duck, and dodge all you want, but you still haven't addressed the fact that this guy is operating a commercial enterprise on my land. I deserve some compensation for the loss of use due to this. I'll settle for grazing fees and call it even. But this freeloader thinks he has a right to freebies. Screw him.

 

[nodoginnafight]

David Koresh bears full responsibility.

The BATF wanted to make a big production so they could go to Congress at appropriations time and justify their budgets. They could have done their searches any number of ways, but they chose the Rambo approach because it would be exciting on a video shown to Congress.

The Batmen bear at least as much responsibility to the Waco clusterfuck as Koresh does.

So as long as you stay home after you murder someone .... you're in the clear ????

That all depends on who did the murdering. Koresh was hit when he opened the front door to greet the officers. Doesn't appear that he was looking for a shootout. If the ATF fired first, then they were the murderers.

The ATF went looking for a show. Even invited the TV cameras to the party. They got the show they were looking for.

The FBI lost their case, in my humble opinion, when they bulldozed the site to prevent the Texas Rangers from conducting an investigation into who fired first. They destroyed all the evidence for a reason. And, that reason was to protect themselves.

According to some of the survivors, they were shot at by the feds when they tried to flee the burning building. At least one of the people was shot dead, and he didn't have a weapon on him.

I heard (with my own ears) survivors saying the davidians shot men, women, and children who were trying to get out because some of the davidians considered that disloyal. Jim Jones did the same thing. Crazy murdering cultists.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The BATF wanted to make a big production so they could go to Congress at appropriations time and justify their budgets. They could have done their searches any number of ways, but they chose the Rambo approach because it would be exciting on a video shown to Congress.

The Batmen bear at least as much responsibility to the Waco clusterfuck as Koresh does.

That all depends on who did the murdering. Koresh was hit when he opened the front door to greet the officers. Doesn't appear that he was looking for a shootout. If the ATF fired first, then they were the murderers.

The ATF went looking for a show. Even invited the TV cameras to the party. They got the show they were looking for.

The FBI lost their case, in my humble opinion, when they bulldozed the site to prevent the Texas Rangers from conducting an investigation into who fired first. They destroyed all the evidence for a reason. And, that reason was to protect themselves.

According to some of the survivors, they were shot at by the feds when they tried to flee the burning building. At least one of the people was shot dead, and he didn't have a weapon on him.

I heard (with my own ears) survivors saying the davidians shot men, women, and children who were trying to get out because some of the davidians considered that disloyal. Jim Jones did the same thing. Crazy murdering cultists.

Provide a link. Or admit you made that up.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I heard (with my own ears) survivors saying the davidians shot men, women, and children who were trying to get out because some of the davidians considered that disloyal. Jim Jones did the same thing. Crazy murdering cultists.

No you sure didn't.

IF such claims existed, then the feds would have gotten the convictions of the Davidians.

You probably were listening to leftist commentators.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Rancher is not peaceful, he does not pay his grazing fees and over grazes, and he is a loon.

 

[Againsheila]

According to some of the survivors, they were shot at by the feds when they tried to flee the burning building. At least one of the people was shot dead, and he didn't have a weapon on him.

I heard (with my own ears) survivors saying the davidians shot men, women, and children who were trying to get out because some of the davidians considered that disloyal. Jim Jones did the same thing. Crazy murdering cultists.

Provide a link. Or admit you made that up.

I'm with gunny on this. I remember the testimony and they said the bullets were coming from the feds, not the davidians.

This is what I've found:

[The FBI]…barricaded [the Davidians] in their building, seventy-six Branch Davidians, including Koresh, did not survive the fire. Seventeen of these victims were children under the age of 17. The Danforth Report claims that those who died were unable, or unwilling, to flee and that Steve Schneider, Koresh’s right-hand man, probably shot Koresh and committed suicide with the same gun. Autopsy records indicate that at least 20 Branch Davidians were shot, including 5 children. Waco: The Rules of Engagement claims that FBI sharpshooters fired on, and killed, many Branch Davidians who attempted to flee the flames. While the few Branch Davidians who did successfully flee the fire supported this claim, the Danforth Report concluded that the adults who died of gunshot wounds shot themselves after shooting the children. Independent third party investigations refute the Danforth Report. On the final day of the Branch Davidian siege in 1993, aerial FLIR film was shot by the FBI that seemed to show automatic weapons fire directed into the burning buildings. Former Senator John Danforth, under the direction of Acting Attorney General Eric Holder, conducted a 14-month, $17-million investigation that exonerated the government of any wrongdoing

http://www.mycultlife.com/tag/branch-davidians/

 

[CaféAuLait]

So since I've "lost" it should be no problem for someone to tell me what I'm getting in return for letting this guy run his commercial enterprise on my land for free? I don't want to hike or camp in a pile of cow shit. So the part he is using is not useable to the rest of us. What is this freeloader giving us in return?

Yet, you can hike and camp use ATVs and drive cars polluting the land, you can do this unregulated for free,( as long as you don't mess with the rock art) your horse can crap all over the place and eat the grass. You will probably pee and poo on the land if staying for any amount of time for free.

You can use the land as a virtual hotel for as long as you like and camp and build fires to warm your butt at night, leaving the land scarred from the fire and your horse trampling all over the land. Your car and ATVs can scar the land, your feet can do the same. Your dog and cat can pee and poo all over the land if you choose to bring it.

Guess what ,you can hunt there, fish there, you can pan for gold there. Gaining a profit for yourself in all of the aforementioned items. You can photograph the area and sell the photos if you are good enough and make money from the area. You can sustain yourself off the land for free as long as you want as there is nothing to regulate how long you stay.

Perhaps he does not appreciate that. But you can do it, cant you? And you don't have to pay him a dime. You can do all of the above for free.

About Gold Butte | Friends of Gold Butte

Gold Butte Region - Area Overview

You can cip, dive, duck, and dodge all you want, but you still haven't addressed the fact that this guy is operating a commercial enterprise on my land. I deserve some compensation for the loss of use due to this. I'll settle for grazing fees and call it even. But this freeloader thinks he has a right to freebies. Screw him.

Freeloader, eh? You point fingers about addressing issues I have addressed and just ignored mine. You and others camp there for free on my land, you run your horses, ATVs and cars all over my land profiting using it as a hotel room, where is the money from all of those profiting from the use of that land? You have yet to answer that question. Where is the money from the pollution caused by the cars killing the plant life and polluting the beautiful rivers? How about your boat waste? How will the government pay for that destruction? of my land by campers, etc?

As far as use, while your camping on your claimed plot I can't use that land either, can I, I can't enjoy the beauty of the area trying to look through your tents. So I've lost use of my land. I can't trod in the horse crap , human pee and crap and dog shit left behind, so I deserve compensation for the loss of use for that as well, don't I?

You claim he is profiting for a business, where is my money for your personal profit using it as a toilet, a hotel, killing the animals on my land for sport or eating them for your profit. When do I see the money for the gold taken from the rivers?

I've lost the beauty because someone else took it, I can no longer enjoy it because its dead or missing from my river. Why should you be allowed to kill animals (for free) I enjoyed seeing each morning I wake up, those I watched in the streams and rivers? Why should you be allowed to do all that without paying a plug nickel to gain access?

Looks like its even to me the nearly 6 million people using the lands each year in the manners listed above, while his 500 cows eat a little grass off of 150 acres in small part of that 600,000 acres of the public land. You and others choose how you profit off the land in a different manner than he does IMO.

My question would be why not charge a fee to the 6 million people entering these public lands each year to assure that people are not doing damage? That is why BLM is charging him a fee, to assure his cows are not damaging the area. People do a lot more damage than animals, but they are allowed to roam free, setting fires, camping, allowing their animals to do whatever without regulation. Hunting and fishing, etc. Seems if you want to regulate one persons actions on the land because of conservation, then they all should be regulated.

The weirdest part about this is BLM was not going to do anything about the lack of fee being paid until they were sued by conservationists.

 

[Erand7899]

If they start killing you first - damn straight.

Somebody tries to sneak in my 2nd floor bedroom window and I have a gun, I'm gonna shoot too.

sneak in with a warrant - when you knocked on the front door and got shot at first.

The Turner Diaries isn't giving you the real story.

Getting shot at? Was that before, or after they shot Koresh when he answered the knock?

You, also, are not giving the real story.

The ATF lied about Ruby Ridge and they lied about Waco. They are not to be believed. The FBI bulldozed the Koresh compound after the fire and after they got everything they wanted out. Why did they do that? They did it to cover up the lies.

The FBI claimed they found some illegal weapons, but how can we believe them. They had to have something to justify all that killing.

The FBI agent, standing on a tank, and waving the American flag while the compound burned and children died, made me sick to my stomach.

 

[SAYIT]

So as long as you stay home after you murder someone .... you're in the clear ????

That all depends on who did the murdering. Koresh was hit when he opened the front door to greet the officers. Doesn't appear that he was looking for a shootout. If the ATF fired first, then they were the murderers.

The ATF went looking for a show. Even invited the TV cameras to the party. They got the show they were looking for.

The FBI lost their case, in my humble opinion, when they bulldozed the site to prevent the Texas Rangers from conducting an investigation into who fired first. They destroyed all the evidence for a reason. And, that reason was to protect themselves.

Koresh and his cultists killed first. There is no question about that. Lotta blood on that guy's hands. Why would anyone feel the need to try to re-write history to idolize a murderer - I'll never know.

I've read every post and no one has attempted to "idolize" Koresh. What some have done is attempt to demonize the BATF and the Feds in general ... perhaps, in this case, with some justification.

 

[Katzndogz]

The cows have been grazing on that land for decades. He should have been paid for what his cows did to reduce the brush.

 

[bodecea]

The cows have been grazing on that land for decades. He should have been paid for what his cows did to reduce the brush.

Brush. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

[tyroneweaver]

Bundy is a white Mormonn so he's screwed already... but at any rate

He should pay his grazing fees

 

[Politico]

Hopefully I will be eating some of his cows at a discount soon.

 

[Lovebears65]

Rancher is not peaceful, he does not pay his grazing fees and over grazes, and he is a loon.

You do know this whole thing is about the desert TORTISE so who really is the loon...and the cows were grazing there for a whole lot longer then this man cows have been there

 

[jon_berzerk]

Rancher is not peaceful, he does not pay his grazing fees and over grazes, and he is a loon.

You do know this whole thing is about the desert TORTISE so who really is the loon...and the cows were grazing there for a whole lot longer then this man cows have been there

the desert TORTISE

the Desert Tortoise conservatory which has gone bankrupt

and has to euthanize 900 of the turtles they have

go figure

so in the big picture

it is not about the turtles