Yep... that's the loophole for Illegal Beaners... but the question is now how to close the loophole... and a simple re-interpretation of the 14th will do very nicely.
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Born in the U.S. = American citizen, but not if Trump has his way
- Thread starter 320 Years of History
- Start date
ChrisL
Diamond Member
Why do we want people to be able to come here, use our medical services (meanwhile costing US money) and then have these illegally born individuals become citizens? How does this make America better?
- Aug 16, 2011
- 129,225
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Yep... that's the loophole for Illegal Beaners... but the question is now how to close the loophole... and a simple re-interpretation of the 14th will do very nicely.[ ...many babies were born in many parts of the US to many kinds of parents today and EVERY one of them is a US citizen...
Only a Constitutional amendment, which is very unlikely.
And still none of the moaners and groaners do a single thing to actually work toward their dreamed-of Constitutional amendment.
All it takes is a majority SCOTUS opinion ruling that the framers of the 14th did not intend that loophole to exist, and, poof - an end to the Invastion.Yep... that's the loophole for Illegal Beaners... but the question is now how to close the loophole... and a simple re-interpretation of the 14th will do very nicely.[ ...many babies were born in many parts of the US to many kinds of parents today and EVERY one of them is a US citizen...
Only a Constitutional amendment, which is very unlikely.
And still none of the moaners and groaners do a single thing to actually work toward their dreamed-of Constitutional amendment.
Trump has proposed ending birthright citizenship. Okay...more nations haven't got that policy than do have that policy. So it's not as though it couldn't be implemented. But how far do we want to go with this?
- 14th Amendment
"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
- Statelessness
Illegal aliens are subject to the country they came from, not the United States, they are here illegally. That was written to ensure black slaves were citizens and therefore had Constitutional rights, it was not to grant citizenship to criminals
Trump has proposed ending birthright citizenship. Okay...more nations haven't got that policy than do have that policy. So it's not as though it couldn't be implemented. But how far do we want to go with this?
- 14th Amendment
"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
- Statelessness
nazis love when citizenship is by blood and not birth.
Leftists like you love it when those born solely due to a criminal act get rewarded for the crime being committed. 14th amendment was never intended to be used to do that and you know it.
Yes, well, folks have different interpretations of what nearly every Constitutional Amendment and Article was written to do and what it means today.
Bull crap. "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" is completely clear. Illegal aliens are not subject to our jurisdiction. They are subject to the jurisdiction of the country they came from. You are just ignoring that condition
Bull crap.
Any illegal immigrant in the United States is fully subject to the jurisidiction of the United States.
Which is why they are illegal- and can be arrested.
If they were not subject to the jurisidiction of the United States- they would not be illegal.
So, if an illegal alien steals a car in the US, it's not a crime? He won't be arrested and prosecuted?
You're equivocating the word "subject"
Under US law, is an illegal alien entitled to equal protection like US citizens are?
Under US law, yes. Required by the Constitution, no. Your point?
Required by the Constitution, yes.
So, they are subject to the laws of the United States of America, including the 14th Amendment.
Where does the Constitution say illegal alien is "entitled to equal protection like US citizens?" Sorry man, not taking your word for it.
And you're still equivocating the word "subject"
No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Unless you want to pretend illegals aren't persons- you are just choosing to ignore the Constitution.
Yep... that's the loophole for Illegal Beaners... but the question is now how to close the loophole... and a simple re-interpretation of the 14th will do very nicely.[ ...many babies were born in many parts of the US to many kinds of parents today and EVERY one of them is a US citizen...
And by 'reinterpretation' you mean ignoring the actual language of the 14th Amendment.
Trump has proposed ending birthright citizenship. Okay...more nations haven't got that policy than do have that policy. So it's not as though it couldn't be implemented. But how far do we want to go with this?
- 14th Amendment
"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
- Statelessness
Illegal aliens are subject to the country they came from, not the United States, they are here illegally. That was written to ensure black slaves were citizens and therefore had Constitutional rights, it was not to grant citizenship to criminals
Trump has proposed ending birthright citizenship. Okay...more nations haven't got that policy than do have that policy. So it's not as though it couldn't be implemented. But how far do we want to go with this?
- 14th Amendment
"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
- Statelessness
nazis love when citizenship is by blood and not birth.
Leftists like you love it when those born solely due to a criminal act get rewarded for the crime being committed. 14th amendment was never intended to be used to do that and you know it.
Yes, well, folks have different interpretations of what nearly every Constitutional Amendment and Article was written to do and what it means today.
Bull crap. "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" is completely clear. Illegal aliens are not subject to our jurisdiction. They are subject to the jurisdiction of the country they came from. You are just ignoring that condition
do you ever know what you're talking about, idiota?
You're equivocating the word "subject"
Under US law, is an illegal alien entitled to equal protection like US citizens are?
Under US law, yes. Required by the Constitution, no. Your point?
Required by the Constitution, yes.
So, they are subject to the laws of the United States of America, including the 14th Amendment.
Where does the Constitution say illegal alien is "entitled to equal protection like US citizens?" Sorry man, not taking your word for it.
And you're still equivocating the word "subject"
No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Unless you want to pretend illegals aren't persons- you are just choosing to ignore the Constitution.
rightwingnuts hate the constitution....except for the 2nd amendment....which they don't understand.
All it takes is a majority SCOTUS opinion ruling that the framers of the 14th did not intend that loophole to exist, and, poof - an end to the Invastion.Yep... that's the loophole for Illegal Beaners... but the question is now how to close the loophole... and a simple re-interpretation of the 14th will do very nicely.[ ...many babies were born in many parts of the US to many kinds of parents today and EVERY one of them is a US citizen...
Only a Constitutional amendment, which is very unlikely.
And still none of the moaners and groaners do a single thing to actually work toward their dreamed-of Constitutional amendment.
If wishes were horses, beggers would ride.
If you want to change the Constitution- you need a Constitutional amendment- not wishful thinking that someday the Supreme Court will agree with you.
Why do we want people to be able to come here, use our medical services (meanwhile costing US money) and then have these illegally born individuals become citizens? How does this make America better?
I am okay with the concept of a Constitutional amendment to change the law so that those born of parents who are here illegally are not born citizens.
BUT- the devil is in the details
- I don't think any Constitutional amendment of any kind can be passed right now- there are too many nutjobs manning the tiller at the bow and stern of the good ship United States to agree on any Constitutional amendment.
- And such an amendment would require that parents prove their legal status at birth- frankly as an American citizen- and a father- I would have been pissed off if I was required to prove I was an American citizen in order to get a birth certificate for my child. Are the people in the bunkers off the grid in Idaho going to agree to that?
- Jan 19, 2010
- 69,261
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rightwingnuts hate the constitution....except for the 2nd amendment....which they don't understand
Hey, THAT's the ticket, for re-interpreting the 14th......Any illegal immigrant in the United States is fully subject to the jurisidiction of the United States....
Defining "jurisdiction", in a full-blown responsibilities-of-citizenship context, rather than a mere coincidental law-enforcement context...
An Illegal Alien is subject to the jurisdiction of the United States only insofar as contact is required to facilitate law enforcement...
A native is subject to the jurisdiction of the United States to the full extent of rights and obligations of a citizen...
FULL jurisdiction versus PARTIAL jurisdiction...
The jurisdiction to which an Illegal Alien is subject to the United States is the fragmentary and incomplete jurisdiction of a trespasser...
Such jurisdiction may be ruled as sufficiently imperfect and tainted so as to preclude such persons from invoking the 14th...
What a great, juicy bullshit rationalization, that can be put to excellent use...
That ROCKS, dude...
I like it...
It'll work...
Grand idea...
Thanks...
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All it takes is a majority SCOTUS opinion ruling that the framers of the 14th did not intend that loophole to exist, and, poof - an end to the Invastion.Yep... that's the loophole for Illegal Beaners... but the question is now how to close the loophole... and a simple re-interpretation of the 14th will do very nicely.[ ...many babies were born in many parts of the US to many kinds of parents today and EVERY one of them is a US citizen...
Only a Constitutional amendment, which is very unlikely.
And still none of the moaners and groaners do a single thing to actually work toward their dreamed-of Constitutional amendment.
our system of law is a common law system. that common law is made up of the constitution, statutes and caselaw, all of which are law and have to be followed. the final arbiter of what is constitutional is the supreme court. and pretty much anyone who calls immigrants by derogatory names isn't really worth bothering trying to explain things to anyway.
citizenship is by birth in this country....not by blood like nazi germany.
your wishful thinking is not law.
Trump has proposed ending birthright citizenship. Okay...more nations haven't got that policy than do have that policy. So it's not as though it couldn't be implemented. But how far do we want to go with this?
- 14th Amendment
"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
- Statelessness
Birthright citizenship will always be as it is. To change the 14th amendment would require approval of 2/3's of the senate and 2/3's of the congress, and then it would have to be ratified by 38 state legislatures.
IOW--it will never change.
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Even Gary Johnson falls for leftist control of narrative.
CNN posed this guy to draw votes from Trump. With this statement, he probably does opposite.
It kinda sounds like saying: "I raped her because I couldn't screw her legally, and I would't have done it if her vagina hadn't been there."
CNN posed this guy to draw votes from Trump. With this statement, he probably does opposite.
It kinda sounds like saying: "I raped her because I couldn't screw her legally, and I would't have done it if her vagina hadn't been there."
That's funny... I was thinking the same thing about those who refuse to label them as Illegal Aliens, rather than 'immigrants'....anyone who calls immigrants by derogatory names isn't really worth bothering trying to explain things to anyway...
They aren't 'immigrants' - they're trespassers, and invaders, and unwelcome.
During a 3rd Obama (1st Clinton) (placeholder) term... yes....Birthright citizenship will always be as it is...
Beyond? I wouldn't be too sure about that.
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