biggest difference between Catholic and Protestant... Real Presence

[Cougarbear]

I think making an image of her and bowing before it is a bit suspect.

EXODUS 20:4-6 "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them...

When I taught for 16 years at a Catholic High School, they would say they don't bow down to Mary nor serve her. They would say that they use marry as we would ask people to pray for us in our needs to the Father in the name of Christ. They pray to Mary asking her to intercede as we ask people to intercede and pray for us. The key is "graven" images. What does "graven" mean in context?
Now, I would say they are fence-sitting with this. Really close to the edge because they do leave out the real mediator and interceding personage, Jesus Christ, when they pray to Mary or ask for her to intercede.

 

[Cougarbear]

Jesus taught through parables, allegories, comparisons, similitudes to teach morals and ethics by way of logic and reasoning. To understand these, you have to be able to understand them through logic and reasoning. Most of the people did not get his parables and messages. Partly because they were fully uneducated to the Old Testament and other life experiences. So, when you say you walk by faith in Jesus words, which words are you speaking of? All of them or just the ones you choose to follow? For instance, when you say you follow Jesus. Do you follow all the words of the apostles in the bible? Or, just the ones that fit your narratives and prejudices? If you don't understand the messages of Jesus, how can you say you follow Jesus? How can you say you do his works? This is just a Catholic's misunderstanding of what faith is. Faith is not ignorance nor is it blind, except for those that don't use their God-given brains to logically reason out their faith.

Surada, your disagreeing without anything to offer for a reason is pointless. Stand up for yourself and stop disagreeing and not responding on why.

 

[Cougarbear]

So you're Jewish. I thought you were a Christian.

This is a truly dumb response. As bad as just disagreeing without explanation.

 

[Woodznutz]

So you're Jewish. I thought you were a Christian.

I'm Hebrew, through the patriarch Eber... but not Jewish.

 

[Woodznutz]

When I taught for 16 years at a Catholic High School, they would say they don't bow down to Mary nor serve her. They would say that they use marry as we would ask people to pray for us in our needs to the Father in the name of Christ. They pray to Mary asking her to intercede as we ask people to intercede and pray for us. The key is "graven" images. What does "graven" mean in context?
Now, I would say they are fence-sitting with this. Really close to the edge because they do leave out the real mediator and interceding personage, Jesus Christ, when they pray to Mary or ask for her to intercede.

They believe that Jesus is too harsh and their prayers will not be answered.

 

[Cougarbear]

They believe that Jesus is too harsh and their prayers will not be answered.

Possibly on some issues. But, if Mary has high standing with the Father and Son, she isn't going to go against them...

 

[Meriweather]

I think making an image of her and bowing before it is a bit suspect.

Some cultures will not allow photographs, paintings, or sculptures made of themselves because it represents a loss of personal power that went into the image. That is why ancients carved images of animals or plants, thinking that the power of that animal or the healing power of that plant, also resides in the carving.

Apparently Catholics are the only Christians who can distinguish art from totems, and certainly no other Christian family allows photographs, paintings, or carvings in their homes, believing all images to be totems. No such thing as art.

Exodus was addressing totems, not works of art. For example, read the description of the Ark of the Covenant in (of all places!) Exodus.

 

[DudleySmith]

the word Catholic was used to describe the Church at least as early as 107 AD...

That was a little c 'catholic'; it is a term that means 'universal', and not a reference to The Catholic Church, the corporation. Any monothestic religion would have to be a catholic religion, since universalism is implicit in momotheism, i.e. only one Creator and one God for all.

 

[Cougarbear]

Some cultures will not allow photographs, paintings, or sculptures made of themselves because it represents a loss of personal power that went into the image. That is why ancients carved images of animals or plants, thinking that the power of that animal or the healing power of that plant, also resides in the carving.

Apparently Catholics are the only Christians who can distinguish art from totems, and certainly no other Christian family allows photographs, paintings, or carvings in their homes, believing all images to be totems. No such thing as art.

Exodus was addressing totems, not works of art. For example, read the description of the Ark of the Covenant in (of all places!) Exodus.

Are you serious? Every person I know who is mainstream Christian has a cross or pictures of Jesus in their homes. LDS have pictures of Jesus in their homes and in their local churches as well as in their temples. Only the Catholic Church has their priests and parishioners kneel before a Cross and do their hand signals.

On another note, Mark 12:15-17 (NKJV) Shall we pay, or shall we not pay?" But He, knowing their hypocrisy, said to them, "Why do you test Me? Bring Me a denarius that I may see it."So they brought it. And He said to them, "Whose image and inscription is this?" They said to Him, "Caesar's." And Jesus answered and said to them, "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." And they marveled at Him.

Do you have enough faith that you are paying 10% tithing and also offerings for the poor and the needy? Or, do you drop in a $1, $5, $10 or $20 on the Sundays you go to Mass? That is, if you go at all.

 

[Meriweather]

Are you serious?

My point (and light sarcasm) went right over your head, didn't it? To clarify: Catholics do not worship statuary. Nor do we avoid art.

In Catholic school we were also taught that possessing a "lucky" rabbit's foot or a lucky penny or any other good luck charm was more in line with what Exodus was discouraging.

 

[Cougarbear]

My point (and light sarcasm) went right over your head, didn't it? To clarify: Catholics do not worship statuary. Nor do we avoid art.

In Catholic school we were also taught that possessing a "lucky" rabbit's foot or a lucky penny or any other good luck charm was more in line with what Exodus was discouraging.

I've been to many Mass. 16 years teaching at a Catholic School. You kneel before the Cross and do your hand signals. The priests do as well. That's statuary worshiping. There was this guy who was from Mexico. We went into his house and he had a small statue of the Angel Moroni (He had been converted from the Catholic Church to LDS. Angel Moroni was in the Book of Mormon) IT was on his fireplace mantle. He proudly showed us this and said, "I pray to Saint Moroni every day." He just couldn't let go of the traditions of Catholic worship.

 

[Meriweather]

You kneel before the Cross and do your hand signals.

Did you write the above without feeling an ounce of shame, no feelings of respect at all? The atheists in my family show more respect and deference than what you describe as being a former Catholic and a member of another Christian sect.

Hopefully, whatever has hurt you this badly will find healing in your current church. You do believe in the healing power and the peace of Christ, don't you? Or, does the LDS Church teach healings are just another form of parable?

 

[Cougarbear]

Did you write the above without feeling an ounce of shame, no feelings of respect at all? The atheists in my family show more respect and deference than what you describe as being a former Catholic and a member of another Christian sect.

Hopefully, whatever has hurt you this badly will find healing in your current church. You do believe in the healing power and the peace of Christ, don't you? Or, does the LDS Church teach healings are just another form of parable?

Nice try. But, you know I'm right. I have plenty of respect for your right to worship how you want to. But, when you are in here discussing or debating, these questions are fair game. I'm not attacking you personally. Far from it. You just use this "feeling" nonsense to deflect your losing the debate.

 

[Meriweather]

But, you know I'm right.

"You kneel before the Cross and do your hand signals" is your example of debate and discussion? As that does not meet my standards, I will leave you to it.

 

[rightnow909]

When I taught for 16 years at a Catholic High School, they would say they don't bow down to Mary nor serve her. They would say that they use marry as we would ask people to pray for us in our needs to the Father in the name of Christ. They pray to Mary asking her to intercede as we ask people to intercede and pray for us. The key is "graven" images. What does "graven" mean in context?
Now, I would say they are fence-sitting with this. Really close to the edge because they do leave out the real mediator and interceding personage, Jesus Christ, when they pray to Mary or ask for her to intercede.

where does it say in the bible that there is only ONE mediator and that we should not pray to Mary?

the Bible alone folks have no leg to stand on... bc they have to use the Bible only

 

[Cougarbear]

"You kneel before the Cross and do your hand signals" is your example of debate and discussion? As that does not meet my standards, I will leave you to it.

You know I'm right...

 

[Meriweather]

You know I'm right...

Now I know you are wrong on two counts. Care to try for three?

 

[Cougarbear]

Now I know you are wrong on two counts. Care to try for three?

I'm not wrong on any account. You bow before the idol and do your crossing.
I remember one mass for the staff and teachers I was at. The Father doing the mass read from Matthew 23:9, "Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven." Yet, every Catholic in the room called the dude, "Father" John. I looked over at another teacher and I could see a puzzled look on him too. Don't call anyone FATHER and don't bow down before IDOLS! And, there are 2 things the Catholic Church mucked up.

 

[Meriweather]

"Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven."

Let's study a little history and how many words have more than one definition. Ever hear of Father Abraham? In Jesus day, many cults were springing up and the leaders of these cults were called "Father" (the definition for this usage of 'father' being the person who originated or established something). Jesus pointed out that true origination comes from God. Jesus is the originator of Christianity, not any parish priest.

Now let's go to another definition even more commonly in use--the familial use. No one has ever argued that Jesus commanded children not to call their male parent 'Father'.

Jesus, John, Paul are just three who called those who followed them, 'children' signifying a familial relationship. You can locate these scripture passages in the New Testament. 'Father' in this case continues the familial relationship put into place by Christ and the Apostles. The Catholic Church follows both scripture and Apostolic tradition. (The Bishop of Rome was called Papa. Papa evolved into 'Pope'.)

 

[there4eyeM]

Having statues in a church and obvious offerings before them is impossible to separate from worship. It places these images on the same level as the central message of Jesus. There are some churches that don't even have crosses in order to avoid physical signs becoming enmeshed in the true message. Materialism is the real human malady, with roots in duality. This is precisely what the message of Jesus overturns.