Biden says US to carry out airdrops of aid into Gaza in coming days

[Toddsterpatriot]

The war in the Gaza Strip is generating destruction comparable in scale to the most devastating urban warfare in the modern record. By mid-December, Israel had dropped 29,000 bombs, munitions and shells on the strip. Nearly 70% of Gaza's 439,000 homes and about half of its buildings have been damaged or destroyed.

It isn’t just “how many” but what kind. These are not targeted, quite the opposite.

29,000 bombs through mid-December. A lot more than that by now, right?

How many dead, according to the terrorists? About 30,000?

Damn, less than one dead per "untargeted bomb"?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Has Hamas ever given any indication it cares about the population they control beyond exploiting them for political gain and propaganda?

Exactly.

 

[toomuchtime_]

As of….mid December…

The war in the Gaza Strip is generating destruction comparable in scale to the most devastating urban warfare in the modern record. By mid-December, Israel had dropped 29,000 bombs, munitions and shells on the strip. Nearly 70% of Gaza's 439,000 homes and about half of its buildings have been damaged or destroyed.

It isn’t just “how many” but what kind. These are not targeted, quite the opposite.

https://www.cnn.com/gaza-israel-big-bombs/index.html

In the first month of its war in Gaza, Israel dropped hundreds of massive bombs, many of them capable of killing or wounding people more than 1,000 feet away, analysis by CNN and artificial intelligence company Synthetaic suggests.

Satellite imagery from those early days of the war reveals more than 500 impact craters over 12 meters (40 feet) in diameter, consistent with those left behind by 2,000-pound bombs. Those are four times heavier than the largest bombs the United States dropped on ISIS in Mosul, Iraq, during the war against the extremist group there.

Weapons and warfare experts blame the extensive use of heavy munitions such as the 2,000-pound bomb for the soaring death toll. The population of Gaza is packed together much more tightly than almost anywhere else on earth, so the use of such heavy munitions has a profound effect.


There are already reports of at least one baby that died and children and pregnant women showing signs of starvation.


They shouldn’t be mutually exclusive but they don’t seem to be happening.

The heavy munitions were and still are necessary because Hamas spent the last 16 years building 500 miles of tunnels and other fortifications in populated areas that had to be destroyed. Back in 2009, Israel calculated how much cement and steel Gaza would need to rebuild from the 2008 war, but the Palestinians complained it wasn't enough and the Obama administration pressured Israel to allow a lot more in, and this excess went into building the tunnels and other fortifications that are being bombed out now. So the people who are complaining about the bombing are the same people who made it necessary.

There are no reports of people starving to death but there are reports of some people being undernourished. These false reports of starvation began way back in November, and if they were true, there would have been reports of mass starvation by now.

Israel has committed to providing aid in the north, and last week's attempt to deliver aid in the north had an Israeli military escort to discourage looting, but the Palestinians paid no attention to it, so this week the UN will use Israel's military roads to try to distribute aid in the north. It is essential to the military mission that the civilians in Rafah evacuate to the north, a way will be found to get sufficient supplies to them.

 

[toomuchtime_]

There were no polls taken between the October 7 attack by Hamas and Israel’s response which began almost immediately after. Not that I’m aware of.

Prior to that Hamas was not that popular.

JERUSALEM, Dec 13 (Reuters) - Almost three in four Palestinians believe the Oct. 7 attack by Hamas on Israel was correct, and the ensuing Gaza war has lifted support for the Islamist group both there and in the West Bank, a survey from a respected Palestinian polling institute found.
The Palestinian Center for Policy Survey and Research (PCPSR) findings were published as international alarm grows over the spiralling Palestinian civilian toll in the Israeli counter-offensive against Hamas, now in its third month.

Seventy-two percent of respondents said they believed the Hamas decision to launch the cross-border rampage in southern Israel was "correct" given its outcome so far, while 22% said it was "incorrect". The remainder were undecided or gave no answer.
Hamas, which is sworn to Israel's destruction, has ruled Gaza since splitting with the Palestinian Authority (PA) in 2007. The PA exercises limited governance in the West Bank.

The PCPSR found that, compared to pre-war polling, support for Hamas had risen in Gaza and more than tripled in the West Bank, which has seen the highest levels in violence in years, with repeated deadly clashes between Israeli troops and settlers and Palestinians.
Fifty-two percent of Gazans and 85% of West Bank respondents - or 72% of Palestinian respondents overall - voiced satisfaction with the role of Hamas in the war. Only 11% of Palestinian voiced satisfaction with PA President Mahmoud Abbas.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/

Clearly, there is little difference between Hamas and the general population with regard to Israel.

 

[Shusha]

Ya…I mean why on earth weren’t the Palestinian civilians planning for a day after, squeezed between Hamas and the Israeli’s…. while running from bombs, pulling survivors from the rubble, burying their children, scavenging scarce medical supplies to treat the wounded, trying find food and water.

The government and the people of Gaza had no problem planning for a day of. Indeed, the planning was an extraordinary feat of single-minded focus: the utilization of BILLIONS of dollars directed towards intelligence-gathering, engineering, building, munitions acquisition, stockpiling and distribution, coordinated military actions, organization of personnel, escape routes, communications.

If you can figure out how to store weapons under your child's bed, expecting to utilize those weapons in house to house combat in a ground invasion, you can figure out how to store flour, oil, water in preparation for a need to evacuate or dig in. If you can figure out how to run a tunnel network for attacks, you can figure out how to run a tunnel network for shelter.

 

[Shusha]

Who do you mean by “they”? Palestinians or Hamas?

Hamas doesn’t care what happens to the population it controls.

Exactly why Hamas needs not to be in control any longer. BUT ALSO the people of Gaza have to choose water over weapons.

 

[Shusha]

IT ABSOLUTELY IS ABOUT NUMBERS!

This is small tit-for-tat thinking. One side takes 2000, the other takes 30000. Uneasy pause. One side takes 1000, the other side takes 300. Uneasy pause. Rinse. Repeat. No end game. The cost keeps adding up.

It's not about numbers, it's about achieving goals which will lead to a better future for everyone. Eliminating Hamas benefits everyone. The best we can do while accomplishing that goal is to minimize civilian harm to the extent possible.

The world should be mobilizing to assist Israel in its goal to eliminate Hamas, to facilitate humanitarian aid and eventually to rebuild Gaza for a future of peace and prosperity.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Sorry, can’t deal with your crap anymore - especially after this last accusation. You’re such a tyoical liberal, and a perfect example as to why I switched sides.

IOW...you got nothing cogent in response..so you deflect~

 

[Lisa558]

IOW...you got nothing cogent in response..so you deflect~

Nope….cant tolerate the liberals who are driven by hostility toward Jews.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Nope….cant tolerate the liberals who are driven by hostility toward Jews.

Uh-huh..or at least that's how you choose to spin it. Only a fool would automatically assume that compassion for children being killed, wounded and starved translates to hostility towards Jews. As Coyote pointed out, you don't seem to have any issue with the varied horrors routinely perpetrated upon the innocents in the name of religion or ethnic cleansing--but you graphically spell out the horrors visited upon the Israelis--using the same language, time and again, post after post--and use your graphic agit/prop to excuse and support atrocity. It reveals you as morally and ethically bankrupt.
Religions, ideologies and races don't commit atrocities...people do. Ironically, usually blaming religions, ideologies or race~

BTW..and for the record..I do not support Hamas..and I do not support Israel.

I do support a cease-fire..unlike you--whose unspoken subtext is clearly that genocide is deserved in this case, lest those starving, wounded children regroup and attack Israel.

 

[Lisa558]

Uh-huh..or at least that's how you choose to spin it. Only a fool would automatically assume that compassion for children being killed, wounded and starved translates to hostility towards Jews. As Coyote pointed out, you don't seem to have any issue with the varied horrors routinely perpetrated upon the innocents in the name of religion or ethnic cleansing--but you graphically spell out the horrors visited upon the Israelis--using the same language, time and again, post after post--and use your graphic agit/prop to excuse and support atrocity. It reveals you as morally and ethically bankrupt.
Religions, ideologies and races don't commit atrocities...people do. Ironically, usually blaming religions, ideologies or race~

BTW..and for the record..I do not support Hamas..and I do not support Israel.

I do support a cease-fire..unlike you--whose unspoken subtext is clearly that genocide is deserved in this case, lest those starving, wounded children regroup and attack Israel.

Disgusting. You don’t support HAMAS and you don’t support Isrsel?! WTF? If I didn’t know better, I’d think you‘re drawing a parallel between Muslim terrorists and their Jewish victims as they seek to destroy the terrorists.

There’s no parallel: One went out on a search to deliberately find and torture to death as many Jews as possible, and the other has given warning and opportunity for the Muslims to save themselves.

And don’t with the nasty shit sarcasm. The children won’t regroup. The HAMAS monsters will regroup. Until the monsters release ALL hostages, if any still remain alive, there should be no cease-fire.

P.S. There’s no genocide. The only side who has that as a goal are the Muslim monsters.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Disgusting. You don’t support HAMAS and you don’t support Isrsel?! WTF? If I didn’t know better, I’d think you‘re drawing a parallel between Muslim terrorists and their Jewish victims as they seek to destroy the terrorists.

There’s no parallel: One went out on a search to deliberately find and torture to death as many Jews as possible, and the other has given warning and opportunity for the Muslims to save themselves.

And don’t with the nasty shit sarcasm. The children won’t regroup. The HAMAS monsters will regroup. Until the monsters release ALL hostages, if any still remain alive, there should be no cease-fire.

P.S. There’s no genocide. The only side who has that as a goal are the Muslim monsters.

Interesting..it's always 'Muslim' terrorists and 'Jewish' victims, right? "Muslim" monsters. Never just monsters and victims.

Indeed, the children won't regroup. As for HAMAS..well...history has shown that it is very hard to eradicate ideologies..especially when well-watered with what the adherents see as the blood of martyrs. This is, in fact, the historical apologia for genocide and ethnic cleansing.

After all, nits make lice, right?
I'm sure you agree with that...even though you might not have the guts to come right out and say it~

 

[Coyote]

The government and the people of Gaza had no problem planning for a day of. Indeed, the planning was an extraordinary feat of single-minded focus: the utilization of BILLIONS of dollars directed towards intelligence-gathering, engineering, building, munitions acquisition, stockpiling and distribution, coordinated military actions, organization of personnel, escape routes, communications.

If you can figure out how to store weapons under your child's bed, expecting to utilize those weapons in house to house combat in a ground invasion, you can figure out how to store flour, oil, water in preparation for a need to evacuate or dig in. If you can figure out how to run a tunnel network for attacks, you can figure out how to run a tunnel network for shelter.

Hamas and the people of Gaza are two different things.

 

[Coyote]

Disgusting. You don’t support HAMAS and you don’t support Isrsel?! WTF? If I didn’t know better, I’d think you‘re drawing a parallel between Muslim terrorists and their Jewish victims as they seek to destroy the terrorists.

There’s no parallel: One went out on a search to deliberately find and torture to death as many Jews as possible, and the other has given warning and opportunity for the Muslims to save themselves.

And don’t with the nasty shit sarcasm. The children won’t regroup. The HAMAS monsters will regroup. Until the monsters release ALL hostages, if any still remain alive, there should be no cease-fire.

P.S. There’s no genocide. The only side who has that as a goal are the Muslim monsters.

The problem is you reduce complex issues in to simplistic generalizations. It is the kind of thinking that dehumanizes one side (and anyone in that ethnic/religious group) as all evil and the other as all good no matter what they do.

 

[rylah]

Interesting..it's always 'Muslim' terrorists and 'Jewish' victims, right? "Muslim" monsters. Never just monsters and victims.

Indeed, the children won't regroup. As for HAMAS..well...history has shown that it is very hard to eradicate ideologies..especially when well-watered with what the adherents see as the blood of martyrs. This is, in fact, the historical apologia for genocide and ethnic cleansing.

After all, nits make lice, right?
I'm sure you agree with that...even though you might not have the guts to come right out and say it~

With this kind of attitude Nazi Germany wouldn't have been defeated.

Islamism deserves no less humiliation, and it's quiet simple.
Loss of Islamist control over land is all it takes.

The Middle East can be a beautiful place,
without the yoke of Arab imperialism.

 

[Lisa558]

The problem is you reduce complex issues in to simplistic generalizations. It is the kind of thinking that dehumanizes one side (and anyone in that ethnic/religious group) as all evil and the other as all good no matter what they do.

Oh tell me, oh wise and superior one, more of what is wrong with my thinking.

 

[Lisa558]

With this kind of attitude Nazi Germany wouldn't have been defeated.

Islamism deserves no less humiliation, and it's quiet simple.
Loss of Islamist control over land is all it takes.

The Middle East can be a beautiful place,
without the yoke of Arab imperialism.

The antisemites are responding to all this as if Israel started bombing out of the blue - ignoring what the Arab terrorists did on October 7th. The way they tortured their victims to death is unspeakable. And for those who are willing to acknowledge October 7, they now claim the Jews are just as bad.

 

[rylah]

The problem is you reduce complex issues in to simplistic generalizations. It is the kind of thinking that dehumanizes one side (and anyone in that ethnic/religious group) as all evil and the other as all good no matter what they do.

The Islamist tendency to project their thinking onto others,
only as a smear...is a serious mental disorder, the only
result is degrading of all people and land under the
yoke of Arab imperialism.

Do you have any self awareness?

 

[toomuchtime_]

Hamas and the people of Gaza are two different things.

Hardly, the polls show Hamas's attack on Israel had overwhelming support from the Palestinians.

JERUSALEM, Dec 13 (Reuters) - Almost three in four Palestinians believe the Oct. 7 attack by Hamas on Israel was correct, and the ensuing Gaza war has lifted support for the Islamist group both there and in the West Bank, a survey from a respected Palestinian polling institute found.
The Palestinian Center for Policy Survey and Research (PCPSR) findings were published as international alarm grows over the spiralling Palestinian civilian toll in the Israeli counter-offensive against Hamas, now in its third month.

Seventy-two percent of respondents said they believed the Hamas decision to launch the cross-border rampage in southern Israel was "correct" given its outcome so far, while 22% said it was "incorrect". The remainder were undecided or gave no answer.
Hamas, which is sworn to Israel's destruction, has ruled Gaza since splitting with the Palestinian Authority (PA) in 2007. The PA exercises limited governance in the West Bank.

The PCPSR found that, compared to pre-war polling, support for Hamas had risen in Gaza and more than tripled in the West Bank, which has seen the highest levels in violence in years, with repeated deadly clashes between Israeli troops and settlers and Palestinians.
Fifty-two percent of Gazans and 85% of West Bank respondents - or 72% of Palestinian respondents overall - voiced satisfaction with the role of Hamas in the war. Only 11% of Palestinian voiced satisfaction with PA President Mahmoud Abbas.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/

Why do you continue to post this lie about Hamas and the Palestinian people being separate entities? Clearly, Hamas' atrocities on Oct 7 have overwhelming support among the Palestinian people as does Hamas' pledge of war against Israel until Israel is destroyed.

Have you no shame at all?

 

[Lisa558]

Hardly, the polls show Hamas's attack on Israel had overwhelming support from the Palestinians.

JERUSALEM, Dec 13 (Reuters) - Almost three in four Palestinians believe the Oct. 7 attack by Hamas on Israel was correct, and the ensuing Gaza war has lifted support for the Islamist group both there and in the West Bank, a survey from a respected Palestinian polling institute found.
The Palestinian Center for Policy Survey and Research (PCPSR) findings were published as international alarm grows over the spiralling Palestinian civilian toll in the Israeli counter-offensive against Hamas, now in its third month.

Seventy-two percent of respondents said they believed the Hamas decision to launch the cross-border rampage in southern Israel was "correct" given its outcome so far, while 22% said it was "incorrect". The remainder were undecided or gave no answer.
Hamas, which is sworn to Israel's destruction, has ruled Gaza since splitting with the Palestinian Authority (PA) in 2007. The PA exercises limited governance in the West Bank.

The PCPSR found that, compared to pre-war polling, support for Hamas had risen in Gaza and more than tripled in the West Bank, which has seen the highest levels in violence in years, with repeated deadly clashes between Israeli troops and settlers and Palestinians.
Fifty-two percent of Gazans and 85% of West Bank respondents - or 72% of Palestinian respondents overall - voiced satisfaction with the role of Hamas in the war. Only 11% of Palestinian voiced satisfaction with PA President Mahmoud Abbas.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/

Why do you continue to post this lie about Hamas and the Palestinian people being separate entities? Clearly, Hamas' atrocities on Oct 7 have overwhelming support among the Palestinian people as does Hamas' pledge of war against Israel until Israel is destroyed.

Have you no shame at all?

Thank you for taking up the debate with Coyote, as I’ve lost patience with her. I will be following along.