NightFox
Wildling
If by "crossing the line voter" you mean, NEVER voting for a candidate from either of the major political crime families, then yeah, that's me.That's what I meant. I stopped being a goper. I didn't mean to be taken as insulting you. I figured you as a crossing line voter.First off Doggie, don't ever think that attacking the GOP is attacking me personally, I'm NOT a Republican, never have been, never will be, the ship sailed on the possibility of me ever becoming a member of or providing any form of support to the GOP A LONG time ago. so I ALWAYS see debt as a problem no matter which political crime family is writing the checks.I don't think any money is being taken from one to pay another. The 1% are certainly paying a lower % of tax/income than they were when the child tax credit came into existence. No to attack you personally, but the gop only sees debt as a problem when the middle class gets the benefit.Here's where you and I are again going to part ways since I don't define "help" as taking money out of a vast swath of citizens pockets and handing it to a group of people in amounts based on the number of offspring they have with absolutely no strings attached. It's good thing the Child Tax Credit payout scheme is going to sunset at years end, because I see all kinds of people using that money to buy their way into debt (Houses, Cars, Durables) that they cannot possibly afford in the long run.I specifically meant expanding the child tax credit. One may or may not like it, but there's no dispute it puts money in working families pockets. Some of Biden's plans for expanding healthcare seem doomed to me. Student loan relief would help some.You make a good point regarding "infrastructure" as there is potential for ROI and it's effect on expanding the U.S. production possibilities curve (PPC) across the broad economy there, however I have no confidence that the boys & girls in Washington are capable of confining themselves to items that are actually return positive when it comes to a singular massive infrastructure bill (They'll dip their nasty beaks into it and extract a SEA of non ROI pork from it).Well I read a week or two ago that Biden saw what happened to Obama's plans when he actually brought deficits down, increased jobs and increased healthcare. Under WJC that would be a win. It was not for Obama. And the gop immediately blew up deficits like we've never seen before unless we were in recession, and they didn't accomplish the 4% growth they promised. And McConnell continues defending them as the greatest econ improvment ever. Maybe they were ... for the 1%.Good story Doggie, it’ll be interesting to see how this one plays out and may ultimately be a good thing for Uncle Joe, after all his primary mission is to restore stability and confidence NOT to “Go big” on legislation that was largely dreamed up in left wing think tanks. He should have learned that from what happened to his former boss and the shellacking(s) the Democrats took after he tried to “Go big” on left wing “priorities”.if he wants to use it for something like his American Jobs Plan or Families Plan. And rolling back the McConnell/Trump tax cuts for the 1% is off the table, at least until 2022 before the election.
Parliamentarian: Democrats only get one more chance to sidestep GOP this year
Senate Parliamentarian Elizabeth MacDonough has effectively ruled that only one more automatic budget reconciliation is permissible this year, dealing a blow to Democrats who previously though…thehill.com
IMHO Joe needs to stick with EVERYBODY priorities and if that means he just moves the citizenry back from the brink of complete stupidity somewhat, then he’ll be a successful President.
So Biden said to hell with deficits, I'm gonna enact everything I can that would benefit the middle class. His plan is to stimulate demand as much as possible.
I'd agree with you if you're saying just get the infrastructure we use now fixed, and maybe some new power grid. Move benefits from the top 1% to the middle class. Biden wants a second term for the "soul of America." But the progressive agenda is not a maj.
The deficits are imo a problem, but no one else seems to give a damn, unless it's the gop when they are not the maj party, and when they are the maj party, they outspend the dems.
As far as the rest of it re:"Benefit the Middle Class", same story as with a massive infrastructure bill as well as the fact that I have no faith that anything the Democrats pass will end up largely benefitting "the middle class", in fact why are we even worrying about "the middle class" when it's the POOR that STILL only get 13 cents of every subsidy dollar that government hands out? why don't we work on helping them become NOT POOR first and then worry about subsidizing everybody else?
In my opinion, Joe needs to stick to what he's good at and just work on healing the vicious divisions that exist and bringing some confidence back to institutions.
I think Manchin and Caputo see infrastructure the same way. Biden walks a narrow line. If he mentions "human infrastrucure" the gop and even the moderates from both parties go green around the gills. And if he doesn't, Bernie and Liz make unpleasant sounds.
I also don't think "human infrastructure" as a concept is a non-starter, investing in labor force improvements is just as viable from an ROI standpoint as investing in bridges but as you pointed out it's been abused in the current round of discussion.
Student Loan relief is a complete non-starter (Joe already said he doesn't support it) and encouraging students to take on massive debt that everybody else has to pay for isn't the way to go IMHO, I see FAR too many students wasting loan money on an Institutions that they shouldn't be at & never would have went to if they hadn't cheap money thrown at them. Let's work on ways of LOWERING TUITON instead, perhaps by expanding community colleges, trade schools, etc.. so that we can offer students the RIGHT type of education to suit their talents and desires not enticing them into expensive Universities where they don't belong.
Secondly, that money IS being taken from one to pay another, first in the form of higher prices (your cost of living isn't subsidized, right? yeah mine neither) and secondly in the form of higher taxes down the road, even at the current inexplicably low rates the debt being spawned still has to be serviced and eventually paid back. What do we get for that debt? In this case we get even more middle class families loaded up with debt they cannot afford because they're human beings and are responding to the INCENTIVES that Uncle Sugar is handing them (they believe they're "wealthier" than the actually are and acting accordingly), we also get higher inflation so once they come back down to Earth they have a higher COST OF LIVING to contend with (in addition to debt service), lastly they get to pay higher taxes down the road perhaps MUCH higher if rates ever catch up to reality.
There ain't no such thing as a free lunch , government debt CAN be worthwhile IF you get something in return that is of greater value than what it costs to service that debt, in this case we're NOT doing that, we're just handy out freebies pursuant to buying votes in the now that will have to be paid for later.
We're currently sitting at 4.16% inflation (April) with forecasts reaching 4.4% this year, so there has been increased inflation DRAMATICALLY increased month over month Mar-Apr, yes some of that can be explained by supply constraints due to the pandemic and increased demand due government cash infusions but the point is, we're paying for it NOW and we're going to KEEP paying for it in either the form of higher prices or higher rates. It's why the Fed is sending signals that's it's going to wind down open market purchases (QE) and possibly move towards higher rates sooner than previously expected, THE CENTRAL BANKERS ARE WORRIED ABOUT IT when they get worried we should get SCARED.
As far as some of the folks receiving handouts "investing it" (beyond the question of exactly WHAT they're "investing" it in) that's a good point but, you also have a not insignificant portion of them acting on the "false sense of wealth" incentive and buying their way into debt they cannot afford and thus going down the path I pointed out earlier.
Lastly, you're correct "The Debt" will never be paid off, not possible, however don't fall into the "it's all fungible" trap, the debt we're accruing today has to be serviced and yes, the principle will have to be paid back otherwise there is nothing but unchecked debt accumulation which DOES have a 100% guaranteed very, very bad outcome at some point, sorry Doggie, you and I are both on the hook, TANSTAFL.
Good talk doggie, very stimulating!
