Bible vs Qur'an, authenticity

[irosie91]

Many religions because after a few hundreds of years people forget. So God sends another prophet. That is why Moses was sent after Abraham. And Jesus after Moses. And Muhammad after Jesus (peace be upon them all). But with Muhammad, peace be upon him, God declared there would be no more prophet. This is the last. So after Muhammad, there are no prophets. God does not send any more prophets, but He sends saints. Each century after Muhammad has its saints. These saints follow after Muhammad and emulate his way. Example of these saints known worldwide are Rumi (an America's favourite), Ibn Arabi, Saadi, Imam Ghazali, etc... Just google their names and see.

You are absolutely right, only one religion can ultimately be true. That's common sense and logic. How is that a problem ? How many hundreds of millions of American have there been of all time, and how many of them became presidents of the United States ? 45. How is that a problem ? You are being unfair and dishonest, that's all.

So people can memorize the Quran but can't memorize the Bible? In the days when most people were illiterate, many made their living as story tellers. The Iliad is older than the NT yet it has come down to us reasonably intact.

I will explain what I have learned from muslims over the past approximately 50 years. It seems that they are taught, FROM
INFANCY, that there is something very special about the fact that
they memorize the Koran. Of course----that idea is utter BS.
People have been memorizing their scriptural literature for Millennia.
In fact, an early criticism of the PRINTING PRESS of Gutenberg, was
the fear that with a printing press, people would LOSE THE ABILITY
to memorize. The Koran is actually ---NOTHING MUCH to memorize.
It is done in "Arabic poetry" ---we all memorize little poems and limericks
as kids---------and it is really not all that long. Muslims seem FASCINATED by the fact that people memorized the Koran-----I got bad news for AHMAD-----my very own hubby came from very impoverished background-------but he has the Jewish scriptural writing memorized by
age six. Memorization is the "EDUCATION" of the very impoverished and ----BACKWARD people of the world ALL OVER THE WORLD----the Greeks and jews and Hindus etc did it LONG BEFORE THE RAPIST OF ARABIA was born

We are not talking about the meaning of "memorization". We are talking about the fact that it was memorized, has been memorized, and still is memorized. It's unchanged and untouched. The Bible is not a memorized book.

which lying Imam told you that the bible is not memorized?
I know lots of people who have it memorized. Is that the same Imam who told you that the bible gets re-written every Tuesday and Thursday? I can recite some of the poems of Edgar Allen Poe----BY HEART

 

[Ahmad]

For the million's time: the Qur'an was memorized at the time of Muhammad (peace be upon him). It was mandatory to learn it by heart, since the beginning. From generations to generations people kept committing it to memory, and it goes on today, people are still memorizing it. This ensures the Qur'an remains authentic, unchanged, unaltered, uncorrupted.

I don't doubt you're right about the Quran. My point is that the Bible was likewise an oral history for most of it's existence and was also memorized by the faithful. A few decades after Jesus died the oral histories were collected and written down as the Gospels. No different from the birth of the Quran.

You might have misunderstood me. The Qur'an is always, continually memorized, eternally I'd like to say, as an obligation. This was made mandatory. It is an obligation, from the early time of Islam, from the time of Muhammad (peace be upon him). The Bible, on the other hand does not have a proof of its authenticity, simply.

 

[Ahmad]

Many religions because after a few hundreds of years people forget. So God sends another prophet. That is why Moses was sent after Abraham. And Jesus after Moses. And Muhammad after Jesus (peace be upon them all). But with Muhammad, peace be upon him, God declared there would be no more prophet. This is the last. So after Muhammad, there are no prophets. God does not send any more prophets, but He sends saints. Each century after Muhammad has its saints. These saints follow after Muhammad and emulate his way. Example of these saints known worldwide are Rumi (an America's favourite), Ibn Arabi, Saadi, Imam Ghazali, etc... Just google their names and see.

You are absolutely right, only one religion can ultimately be true. That's common sense and logic. How is that a problem ? How many hundreds of millions of American have there been of all time, and how many of them became presidents of the United States ? 45. How is that a problem ? You are being unfair and dishonest, that's all.

So people can memorize the Quran but can't memorize the Bible? In the days when most people were illiterate, many made their living as story tellers. The Iliad is older than the NT yet it has come down to us reasonably intact.

Who would try to change, alter and corrupt the Illiad of Homer ? Or the Art of War of Sun Tzu ?
Who would NOT try to change the Mueller Report ?
Do you see the difference ? It is worse when it comes to a holy book. But God preserved the Qur'an, it remains to this day untouched and uncorrupted (see OP).

 

[irosie91]

For the million's time: the Qur'an was memorized at the time of Muhammad (peace be upon him). It was mandatory to learn it by heart, since the beginning. From generations to generations people kept committing it to memory, and it goes on today, people are still memorizing it. This ensures the Qur'an remains authentic, unchanged, unaltered, uncorrupted.

I don't doubt you're right about the Quran. My point is that the Bible was likewise an oral history for most of it's existence and was also memorized by the faithful. A few decades after Jesus died the oral histories were collected and written down as the Gospels. No different from the birth of the Quran.

You might have misunderstood me. The Qur'an is always, continually memorized, eternally I'd like to say, as an obligation. This was made mandatory. It is an obligation, from the early time of Islam, from the time of Muhammad (peace be upon him). The Bible, on the other hand does not have a proof of its authenticity, simply.

there is no real evidence that the Koran was MEMORIZED before it was written-----more than 100 years AFTER muhummad died. You have ONLY a traditional teaching that such was the case. Arabic has been a written language since about 300 AD. If there REALLY had been a body of work MEMORIZED by a significant number of people DURING THE LIFETIME of muhummad-------SOMEONE
would have written it. Not all arabs were---at that time, illiterate. As to the words of Jesus-----there is no less evidence, and probably MORE that what is quoted in the
New Testament as HIS WORDS-------are authentic.
I have nothing to say about St Paul's dream life or the mushroom galvanized hallucinations of "john" Those people who actually HEARD JESUS---and wrote his words are a far better source than the stuff cobbled together into a book more than 100 years after muhummad died

 

[irosie91]

Many religions because after a few hundreds of years people forget. So God sends another prophet. That is why Moses was sent after Abraham. And Jesus after Moses. And Muhammad after Jesus (peace be upon them all). But with Muhammad, peace be upon him, God declared there would be no more prophet. This is the last. So after Muhammad, there are no prophets. God does not send any more prophets, but He sends saints. Each century after Muhammad has its saints. These saints follow after Muhammad and emulate his way. Example of these saints known worldwide are Rumi (an America's favourite), Ibn Arabi, Saadi, Imam Ghazali, etc... Just google their names and see.

You are absolutely right, only one religion can ultimately be true. That's common sense and logic. How is that a problem ? How many hundreds of millions of American have there been of all time, and how many of them became presidents of the United States ? 45. How is that a problem ? You are being unfair and dishonest, that's all.

So people can memorize the Quran but can't memorize the Bible? In the days when most people were illiterate, many made their living as story tellers. The Iliad is older than the NT yet it has come down to us reasonably intact.

Who would try to change, alter and corrupt the Illiad of Homer ? Or the Art of War of Sun Tzu ?
Who would NOT try to change the Mueller Report ?
Do you see the difference ? It is worse when it comes to a holy book. But God preserved the Qur'an, it remains to this day untouched and uncorrupted (see OP).

no-----I do not see your point. "TRY TO CHANGE"? It would be far easier to change the writings of the Koran in the
few hundred years after the death of muhummad than it would be to change the words of the bible since MOST MUSLIMS
WERE COMPLETELY ILLITERATE at that time. Even when muslims do their SING SONG thing of the Koran in mosques-----some MISTAKES POP IN

 

[alang1216]

Do you see the difference ? It is worse when it comes to a holy book. But God preserved the Qur'an, it remains to this day untouched and uncorrupted (see OP).

Are you saying God could not preserve the Bible untouched and uncorrupted if he wanted to? Your reasoning is circular. You believe the Quran is the is the word of God untouched and uncorrupted. Since it differs from the Bible, it is the Bible that must have been changed since the Quran can not be wrong.

 

[Mr Natural]

Two storybooks taken way too seriously.

 

[irosie91]

Do you see the difference ? It is worse when it comes to a holy book. But God preserved the Qur'an, it remains to this day untouched and uncorrupted (see OP).

Are you saying God could not preserve the Bible untouched and uncorrupted if he wanted to? Your reasoning is circular. You believe the Quran is the is the word of God untouched and uncorrupted. Since it differs from the Bible, it is the Bible that must have been changed since the Quran can not be wrong.

remember the superman comics? -----I have one UNTOUCHED
since 1955---------Mine was finally printed in 1962 but I KNOW it is
untouched and THEREFORE FROM ZEUS-----because I memorized it in 1954-------whilst reading DICK JANE AND SALLY

 

[karpenter]

Muhammad (peace be upon him) was given a book by God, The Qur'an.

No He wasn't
He Was Given His 'Revelations'
By An Entity That Called Itself Gabriel
This Is Based Solely On The Word Of Mohammed
The Recitals Were Scribbled On Napkins
Scattered About On Bark Fragments, Whatever Was Handy
No Effort Was Made To Compile Them Into A Book
Until After Mohammed's Death

I'm Sure His Followers Never Lost Any
Got Any Wrong, Or Just Plain Made Any Up
^ ^ ^ That Will Be The Claim Of Any Muslim
Amirite ???

In it, God talks to him. It is the word of God

Nope
Mohammed Claims It Was Gabriel Speaking To Him
It Was The Words Of Gabriel That Mohammed Heard
No One Else Ever Heard Or Saw This Entity
That Mohammed Claims Was Gabriel

So Maybe The Words He Heard
Were Just Voices In His Head And Hallucinations
^ ^ ^ Highly Plausible, Given Mohammed's Personal Behavior

But Being A Follower Of Mohammed Back In The Day
Was A Pretty Good Gig
For Formerly Penniless, Illiterate, Bedouin Goat Herders
All That Conquest, Subterfuge For Victory
Loot, Booty, Slaves

Oh, And Then There's That Death Thingy
For Followers That Tried To Leave
Over Mohammed's Nauseating Personal Habits And Un-Holiness

 

[karpenter]

Prison Is One Of The Top Hot-Beds Of Islamic Conversion
Because Islam Is The Perfect Religion For Criminals

 

[Hawkins]

What humans don't understand is the process of human witnessing. Mohammad didn't make a difference.

To simply put, all God's OT prophets are eyewitnesses of God. That's significant on how human witnessing works at all. Mohammad is a copycat without knowing the big picture. he thought that hearing from an claimed angel did the job.

OT is the continuous portraying of who God is by a serious of eyewitnesses. It's never about hearsay from a self-claimed angel.

The most difficult part of the crafting of the Bible is to carry forward its contents (which is a theology as a whole) from long before the invention of paper till today. Humans lacked the capability to keep original documents before that point. Quran is from someone lazy, he doesn't need to do the job to bring it across the boarder. That's how lazy Satan can be.

 

[Avatar4321]

I know the Bible contains the words of Christ because:

1) the Holy Spirit has revealed to me that it does

2) the Book of Mormon acts as a second witness and second nation establishing the Worss of Christ

3) I’ve folllowed the counsel of Christ that we can do what He said and find out for ourselves

 

[Ahmad]

The Qur'an is a book God Almighty gave Muhammad (peace be upon him), just as He gave Jesus the Injeel, Moses the Tawra, and David the Zabur (Psalms in english), peace be upon them.

Can one possibly say that these words are human ?

In the name of God, the Gracious, the Merciful.

1. The Compassionate.

2. Has taught the Quran.

3. He created man.

4. And taught him clear expression.

5. The sun and the moon move according to plan.

6. And the stars and the trees prostrate themselves.

7. And the sky, He raised; and He set up the balance.

8. So do not transgress in the balance.

9. But maintain the weights with justice, and do not violate the balance.

10. And the earth; He set up for the creatures.

11. In it are fruits, and palms in clusters.

12. And grains in the blades, and fragrant plants.

13. So which of your Lord’s marvels will you deny?

14. He created man from hard clay, like bricks.

15. And created the jinn from a fusion of fire.

16. So which of your Lord’s marvels will you deny?

17. Lord of the two Easts and Lord of the two Wests.

18. So which of your Lord’s marvels will you deny?

19. He merged the two seas, converging together.

20. Between them is a barrier, which they do not overrun.

21. So which of your Lord’s marvels will you deny?

22. From them emerge pearls and coral.

23. So which of your Lord’s marvels will you deny?

24. His are the ships, raised above the sea like landmarks.

25. So which of your Lord’s marvels will you deny?

26. Everyone upon it is perishing.

27. But will remain the Presence of your Lord, Full of Majesty and Splendor.

28. So which of your Lord’s marvels will you deny?

29. Everyone in the heavens and the earth asks Him. Every day He is managing.

30. So which of your Lord’s marvels will you deny?

31. We will attend to you, O prominent two.

32. So which of your Lord’s marvels will you deny?

33. O society of jinn and humans! If you can pass through the bounds of the heavens and the earth, go ahead and pass. But you will not pass except with authorization.

34. So which of your Lord’s marvels will you deny?

35. You will be bombarded with flares of fire and brass, and you will not succeed.

36. So which of your Lord’s marvels will you deny?

37. When the sky splits apart, and becomes rose, like paint.

38. So which of your Lord’s marvels will you deny?

39. On that Day, no human and no jinn will be asked about his sins.

40. So which of your Lord’s marvels will you deny?

41. The guilty will be recognized by their marks; they will be taken by the forelocks and the feet.

42. So which of your Lord’s marvels will you deny?

43. This is Hell that the guilty denied.

44. They circulate between it and between a seething bath.

45. So which of your Lord’s marvels will you deny?

46. But for him who feared the standing of his Lord are two gardens.

47. So which of your Lord’s marvels will you deny?

48. Full of varieties.

49. So which of your Lord’s marvels will you deny?

50. In them are two flowing springs.

51. So which of your Lord’s marvels will you deny?

52. In them are fruits of every kind, in pairs.

53. So which of your Lord’s marvels will you deny?

54. Reclining on furnishings lined with brocade, and the fruits of the two gardens are near at hand.

55. So which of your Lord’s marvels will you deny?

56. In them are maidens restraining their glances, untouched before by any man or jinn.

57. So which of your Lord’s marvels will you deny?

58. As though they were rubies and corals.

59. So which of your Lord’s marvels will you deny?

60. Is the reward of goodness anything but goodness?

61. So which of your Lord’s marvels will you deny?

62. And beneath them are two gardens.

63. So which of your Lord’s marvels will you deny?

64. Deep green.

65. So which of your Lord’s marvels will you deny?

66. In them are two gushing springs.

67. So which of your Lord’s marvels will you deny?

68. In them are fruits, and date-palms, and pomegranates.

69. So which of your Lord’s marvels will you deny?

70. In them are good and beautiful ones.

71. So which of your Lord’s marvels will you deny?

72. Companions, secluded in the tents.

73. So which of your Lord’s marvels will you deny?

74. Whom no human has touched before, nor jinn.

75. So which of your Lord’s marvels will you deny?

76. Reclining on green cushions, and exquisite carpets.

77. So which of your Lord’s marvels will you deny?

78. Blessed be the name of your Lord, Full of Majesty and Splendor.

 

[irosie91]

the BhagavadGita is a lot better

 

[keepitreal]

Hello.

This was prompted to me by people quoting me Bible verses, in their attempt to convince me of some elements. My question is, what evidence is there that the Bible's words, as known today are the actual words of the Prophet Jesus ? Jesus (peace be upon him) lived 2000 years ago. How would one expect, in all pure common sense, that his words are preserved up to this day ? Do you not think that these words are changed, modified, altered, arranged, and put up conveniently, voluntarily, and both with and without that very intent ?

Muhammad (peace be upon him) was given a book by God, The Qur'an. In it, God talks to him. It is the word of God. That was about 1500 years ago. However, the Qur'an was memorized from the beginning, as an obligation to the Muslim community, and it was done as it had to be. From generations to generations, it was memorized, all over the Muslim world, until today, and it continues. This is how we know the Qur'an is authentic, the very same that it was 1500 years ago.

1500 years ago, when Muhammad recited this Qur'an to people, everyone was amazed by such a speech, such words, such extraordinary and beautiful words of light. It is the same today, when someone reads a verse of the Qur'an, or many verses, or a Chapter, or many Chapters; he is overwhelmed by such extraodinary, magnificent and amazing words. This is because it is the word of God Almighty.

"So all the praises and thanks be to God, the Lord of the heavens and the Lord of the earth, and the Lord of the Alamin (mankind, jinn and all that exists). And His (Alone) is the Majesty in the heavens and the earth, and He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise." (45:36-37)

"But those who believe and do righteous good deeds, and believe in that which is sent down to Muhammad - for it is the truth from their Lord - He will expiate from them their sins, and will make good their state." (47:1)

My question is, what evidence is there that the Bible's words, as known today are the actual words of the Prophet Jesus ?

You’re going to ask this ^

How would one expect, in all pure common sense, that his words are preserved up to this day ? Do you not think that these words are changed, modified, altered, arranged, and put up conveniently, voluntarily, and both with and without that very intent ?

Then, state this ^

Muhammad (peace be upon him) was given a book by God, The Qur'an. In it, God talks to him. It is the word of God.

Then, state that ^

First of all, God didn’t give Muhammad shit...
It came from the angle Gabriel

Secondly, if I wanted to, I could quote Suras
and give the Scriptures from the KJV, it originates from

I’ve had enough demon spirits today...

As it is Written, In the Mighty Name of Jesus
demon spirit of false doctrines and lies, BE SILENT!
The Lord rebuke you!

 

[Ahmad]

the BhagavadGita is a lot better

That is your opinion.

Can you cite me some of it ?

 

[irosie91]

the BhagavadGita is a lot better

That is your opinion.

Can you cite me some of it ?

it is a philosophical song that is devoted to the actual
ETHICAL dilemma posed by war-------anyone who finds
the deification of muhummad song to be SUBLIME---would not like it

 

[Wyatt earp]

Hello.

This was prompted to me by people quoting me Bible verses, in their attempt to convince me of some elements. My question is, what evidence is there that the Bible's words, as known today are the actual words of the Prophet Jesus ? Jesus (peace be upon him) lived 2000 years ago. How would one expect, in all pure common sense, that his words are preserved up to this day ? Do you not think that these words are changed, modified, altered, arranged, and put up conveniently, voluntarily, and both with and without that very intent ?

Muhammad (peace be upon him) was given a book by God, The Qur'an. In it, God talks to him. It is the word of God. That was about 1500 years ago. However, the Qur'an was memorized from the beginning, as an obligation to the Muslim community, and it was done as it had to be. From generations to generations, it was memorized, all over the Muslim world, until today, and it continues. This is how we know the Qur'an is authentic, the very same that it was 1500 years ago.

1500 years ago, when Muhammad recited this Qur'an to people, everyone was amazed by such a speech, such words, such extraordinary and beautiful words of light. It is the same today, when someone reads a verse of the Qur'an, or many verses, or a Chapter, or many Chapters; he is overwhelmed by such extraodinary, magnificent and amazing words. This is because it is the word of God Almighty.

"So all the praises and thanks be to God, the Lord of the heavens and the Lord of the earth, and the Lord of the Alamin (mankind, jinn and all that exists). And His (Alone) is the Majesty in the heavens and the earth, and He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise." (45:36-37)

"But those who believe and do righteous good deeds, and believe in that which is sent down to Muhammad - for it is the truth from their Lord - He will expiate from them their sins, and will make good their state." (47:1)

you shit for brains, the Quran was taking from the bible

Wrong. It wasn't taken from the Bible.

https://www.quora.com/According-to-Islam-when-was-the-first-Quran-written


What is recorded in the Quran is what Mohammed recited or at least what is claimed he recited. Then some 20 years after the death of Mohammed so many people who had memorized what Mohammed had recited had been killed in the battles that Muslims fought, that the third caliph Othman decided to compile a Quran. He appointed people to find any verses that had been written down and what people had memorized and put them together in a book that was called the Quran. After he had compiled the Quran he had all other written verses burnt. It is recorded in the Hadiths that some people were not very happy about this as the way they had memorized some verses differed from what was recorded in the Quran. From very early Quran fragments found in Sana'a in 1972 it can be shown that earlier Quran verses were erased and replaced with Othman's version of the Quran. It is claimed that we today have this Othman version of the Quran even though not one of the originals Qurans he had written and distributed exists any longer.

So when was the Quran made? Most probably some 20 to 30 years after the death of Mohammed by the writers brought together by Othman. Are the Qurans today the same as what Othman compiled, nobody knows as we have no originals left. More important those is the fact that we have proof that early versions of the Quran were changed to comply with Othman's version of the Quran.

Oh please the Quran mentions the Bible, the Bible doesn't mention the Quran.


.

 

[james bond]

Where the rubber meets the road is where Islam and Judaism state that Jesus is not a God. However, we found that Jesus died on the cross in order to save humankind, was buried and rose again on the third day. This is irrefutable and why both Islam and Judaism are false teachings. There is only one true religion and that is Christianity.

 

[Mr Natural]

Where the rubber meets the road is where Islam and Judaism state that Jesus is not a God. However, we found that Jesus died on the cross in order to save humankind, was buried and rose again on the third day. This is irrefutable and why both Islam and Judaism are false teachings. There is only one true religion and that is Christianity.

And therein lies the problem with religious fanatics.