Beloe Zlato! The most successive Russian girl band.

[rupol2000]

it more or less coinsides with Russian speaking South and East of what is called Ukraine now.
sooner or later, but I think within next 10-15 years Novorissia (up to Kiev, including Kiev) will reunite with Russia.
The center is discussible, the Yellow Roguli region will be left to Poland, Romania, Hungary and for self determination.

That is, you admitted that this is a lie, but you still continue to promote "Great Russian chauvinism"?

 

[rupol2000]

what is called Ukraine now

and these lands were once called Moscow or Greater-Russian?

Russian speaking

You touched on the language, well, do you know that the Slavic language is not the language of historical Russians? The eastern Slavs of the Upper Dnieper and modern Moscow-region previously spoke Baltic languages(Such as the Dnieper-Oka dialect of Baltic and Galindic for example)

Днепровско-окский язык — Википедия

ru.wikipedia.org

PS
There is a version that the speakers of the Slavic languages (and these were actually the "West Slavs" in the Avar Kaganate, related to the Ukrainian Lesser-Poles) completely ousted the Balts from the East Slavic region. But this is very doubtful, since the Russian language includes a Baltic substratum.
There was assimilation

 

[rupol2000]

What fool ever dreamed up that language was the basis for political affiliation?
English is spoken in the United States, then US must back to the British crown? What the idiots are believe in such a "logic"?

 

[rupol2000]

Of course, peoples have the right to self-determination, no one canceled this, but they themselves must decide, and without pressure and without propaganda, objectively.

 

[rupol2000]

So in due time the Nazis seized the Austro-Hungarian lands. They founded the Pan-German League and shouted at every corner that they were defending the rights of the German colonists and german-speaking.

 

[ESay]

lol, Esay, you seem to be a part of Ukrainian intelligencia, the one which Ukraine had never had until Russians (and especially evil Soviets) artificially created

I mean I understand it's a great temptation to believe own propaganda, but can an intelligent person afford himself such a luxury? Especially taking in account that for Ukraine self-decieving is absolutely lethal...

Ukaine is deindustrializing fast, it loses population fast, and the most qualified and educated leave - either to Russia or to Europe. The least qualufied - to Poland to work in strawberry fields, the most qualified - to Russia to work in new plants.

Ukraine as a degrading system cannot privide its population with work and sources of income.

And what is even more tragic to you, new agriculture technologies do not require many people in rural area too.
Rural redneck Seluki in Western Ukraine, the driving force of Ukrainian nationalism will first find themselves the only ones left in medieval agrarian economy which Ukraine gradually becomes, and then they will be thrown out of their land and out of life, because there will be no jobs for them in agriculture, no one needs so many unskilled working hands....

But keep dreaming and comforting yourselves with your lie on Russia

A lie, what exactly is a lie? That Russia throughout most of its history was a backward illiterate place, with corrupted bureaucracy, autocratic rule which caused its demise at least twice and all that reforms on European manner which it mostly failed?

If you deny your own history and is ashamed of it, that is your problem. And that doesn't change the reality.

 

[rupol2000]

A lie, what exactly is a lie? That Russia throughout most of its history was a backward illiterate place, with corrupted bureaucracy, autocratic rule which caused its demise at least twice and all that reforms on European manner which it mostly failed?

If you deny your own history and is ashamed of it, that is your problem. And that doesn't change the reality.

In fact, there are many nuances here. When Russia was a hussar and there was a century of Austro-Hungarian influence in Eastern Europe, Russia gave the world many scientists, such as Mendeleev and Mechnikov, it developed and there was a great culture.

Russia in historical sence(not Golden Horde) cannot be considered non-European, it was precisely Europe, of the Prussian-German type.

Europe itself is also heterogeneous in its development. When the Celts, who came just from the territory of Russia, from about the Ural region had iron spokes in their wheels, the north of Europe ran without pants in the Neolithic.

Native Old Europe and everything that inherited it was the most backward, at least in Eurasia. They learned about the metal about ten thousand years after it began to be produced in the east, and in some places was the Neolithic in the 7th century AD.

 

[rupol2000]

The arguments of the Eurocentrists about their alleged "great development" are truly ridiculous, and modern Moscow is conducting Eurocentric propaganda and is actively integrating with Germany.

Yes there was Great Culture in Europe in the Danube region, but this is against Eurocentristic ideology.

 

[rupol2000]

There is not a single advanced culture found in Old Europe. Even in the Late Bronze, there was still nothing there (except for the Danube Celts).
All the cultural achievements that the Europeans received, with the exception of pig breeding and stone axes, they received from the East and the Danube.
Including Roman culture that came across La Ten from the same Danube

 

[rupol2000]

Gobino came up with a feint on this, he argued that supposedly the ancient Europeans moved eastward, and mixed with the local population, and due to their "Nordic character" created the Indian civilization of the Aryans. At the same time, for some reason they themselves remained in Europe without pants and with stone hammers. Whatever it was, this all has no real confirmation in science.

 

[rupol2000]

About 3.5 thousand years ago, the seven-note system of music arose in Vedic culture, which is used to this day, it is described in the Samaveda. And this culture arose from the "Russian" Andronov culture.
When Europeans lived in common long houses with pigs, and did not know what a pin was, at least 1.5 thousand years passed from the times the Andronovites knew music and built observatories.

 

[rupol2000]

The Bolsheviks tried to flood the Andronovo culture, allegedly due to economic necessity. It was saved by archeologists, but besides it there are local variants in the Volga, Don and Central Asia regions(Petrovo, Abashevo, Sintashta and so on).
This was precisely the source of technical progress in Europe.

 

[rupol2000]

Greece had a developed culture. But this is again the influence of the Middle East and the Danube River and not Europe.

 

[Siberian]

A lie, what exactly is a lie? That Russia throughout most of its history was a backward illiterate place, with corrupted bureaucracy, autocratic rule which caused its demise at least twice and all that reforms on European manner which it mostly failed?

If you deny your own history and is ashamed of it, that is your problem. And that doesn't change the reality.

first of all, you are lying to yourself about your and your country's place in cultural hyerarchy.
To call Russia backward etc by a Ukrainian is like for an Aztec to be called backward by a savage Amazon tribe of the same period While there might be more advanced civilization overseas, a Chinese one (definitely not European of that time, military advantage does not mean cultural superiority) but superiority of Aztecs to all these tribes is indisputable. Unless an Amazon goes crazy and suddenly attributes himself to an alien culture

Kievan part of Russia has always been a province of someone, except short period of probably 2-3 ages prior to Mongol invasion. All other 800 years Ukraine has always been an illiterate stateless colony of Poland or a province of Russia.

And since Middle ages all culture present in Ukraine was brought there by Russians, concentrated in Russian speaking cities, while Ukrainian speaking seluki were and still are a bastion of dark obscurantism.

Even recent internal conflict in Ukraine is between backward agrarian Ukrainianism and modern Rusian speaking urbanism. Agrarian, uneducated, rural, nationalistic, Ukrainian speaking Western Ukraine vs. industrialized, urban, educated, Russian speaking South and East.
And Ukranians having political power destroys urban civilization in your country, along with Russian speaking science and industry. In Ukraine if you stop reading in Russian you stop reading at all.

Am I not correct?

 

[rupol2000]

All other 800 years Ukraine has always been an illiterate stateless colony of Poland or a province of Russia.

Nothing like this. It has never been a colony of Russia at all. Moscow owned only the Hetmanate, which was not part of Ukraine at all.
The Poles themselves come from the Ukrainians, these are the Polans(Ispolins, Sarmatians) who lived in the steppe part of the west of Ukraine.
Moscow appeared after Tamerlane's invasion of the Golden Horde, it was raised by Khan Uzbek. But only as a small village. Travelers of the 17th century noted that in the area of modern Clear Ponds (the center of Moscow), pagans gathered there. This place was then called pogan swamps, and apparently it was the of outskirts of Moscow. This is 17 century.

Kiev was Sambat, a large Bulgar city, it was well known in Byzantium. It most likely received the name Kiev from Khan Kuvrat or his son Kuver, Khan Avar.

 

[Siberian]

rupol2000, I did not say Ukraine was a colony of Russia, it was an integral part of Russia, and quite a privileged one, with Ukrainisns being able to make equial careers with Russians and even become heads of the state, like Khrushev and Brezhnev.
But still this territory in administrative meaning was a remote province of Russia, and Historically everything Ukrainian was lower in intellectual and cultural development than everything Russian.

Let alone there was nothing real Ukrainian prior to USSR, only commies implemented the 1st wave of forced Ukrainization, prior to commies there was no Ukrainian language in present meaning.
Read the letter of Zaporozhie kossaks to Turkish sultan, it is written in Russian of that time

 

[rupol2000]

Then there was no "Ukraine" at all. If start history from the Middle Ages, it was Great Bulgaria (next to the steppe part of modern Russia), then the Avar Kaganate and Khazaria, Then Golden Horde, then lesser Poland and the Cossack lands in the east. Approximatelly. It became Ukraine only after 1917

 

[rupol2000]

But still this territory in administrative meaning was a remote province of Russia,

Only in the 19th century under the influence of Austro-Hungary. Before that, Moscow had only Hetmanat and Novoserbia there.

 

[toobfreak]

4, 2, 1, 3

I prefer to see my singing Russians naked first before I try to rank them, but in general, singing naked is preferred anyway.

But offhand, I'd say: 2, 1, 4, 3.

 

[rupol2000]

Let alone there was nothing real Ukrainian prior to USSR, only commies implemented the 1st wave of forced Ukrainization, prior to commies there was no Ukrainian language in present meaning.
Read the letter of Zaporozhie kossaks to Turkish sultan, it is written in Russian of that time

Again. The hetmanate was a Moscow province with Turkish and Serbian settlers. These were not Cossacks at all in the usual sense, they were the infantry of the Musketeers, they were called Seljuks.

And no, the Ukrainian language is original, and it is closer to the Old Slavonic, because there was Bulgaria, and the Old Slavic language is Old Bulgarian (this is its other name). The Russian language appeared as a result of the assimilation of the West Slavs with the Balts. And it appeared among the Eastern Slavs much later.

It spread like this, approximately