Because I'm not 'woke'

[marvin martian]

Yet the water makes it a less desirable addition.

Yeah, people hate living near water.

 

[Moonglow]

Sheet a roof, read engineering prints, lay out an entire house, repair forklifts and machinery, work at heights that scare the shit out of people, trim, cabinets, windows, siding, roofing, final touches.. etc...
Yeah, That's all.
Fucking moron.

I used to do it also get that burr out of yer saddle.

 

[Moonglow]

Yeah, people hate living near water.

I do it's too wet.

 

[petro]

I used to do it also get that burr out of yer saddle.

It was a splinter.

 

[Moonglow]

It was a splinter.

After 42 years I had to stop doing it and there went my under the table money.

 

[MisterBeale]

As for the wokeness, you will lump anyone into the "woke" category no matter who they are, so I won't take that one to heart.

I have found wokeness an interesting establishment capture. I have really, by itself, no problem with it in isolation. It is the politicization of it by the corporate democrats that becomes my problem.

The same is true of the "red pill," phenomenon among the right. I have no problem with that either. It is, in it's essence, a road to challenging establishment norms, and a path to independent critical thinking.

Surprisingly, there is much overlap in the two, but many that don't investigate ideas in both, will deny this, unfortunately, because of politics.

This is also something I observed in the origins of the Tea Party movement, and the Occupy movement.

 

[Road Runner]

I don't particularly care if you celebrate Columbus day, and I don't think most "liberals" would, but he really didn't do a damn thing worth celebrating.

Yeah,.. wasn't it somebody else who actually discovered America?

 

[yumegari]

Yeah,.. wasn't it somebody else who actually discovered America?

I mean, sure, but to be fair, it was Columbus's rediscovery of America that was the most consequential historically.

 

[Turtlesoup]

The greatest discovery in the world?

He didn't discover nothing---he was lost when he came and lost when he left. He was a slaver, abusive, and known to be insane.

 

[Road Runner]

I mean, sure, but to be fair, it was Columbus's rediscovery of America that was the most consequential historically.

Yeah, sure sucks for the actual guy who discovered it though.

 

[Turtlesoup]

I'll preface this by saying I'm 100% open to corrections. I've just started my major in history not too long ago, and my independent studies have mostly focused on states outside of Europe. I'd love to learn more from this discussion.

The discovery of the New World was indeed inevitable, just as the discovery of most things are inevitable. Discoveries are rarely the result of great people, because great people are an aspect of all times; more often than not, they come as a natural consequence of the natural, perpetual curiosity (and greed) of people, paired with the technological capability to make those discoveries.

With that being said, my understanding is that the discovery of New World directly and immediately led to three negative consequences for the natives: disease, slaughter, and the proselytization of the survivors. I understand the disease was the bulk of that, and while it's the "fault" of those conquistadors and the settlers that followed, it wasn't their intention. But I would argue that's irrelevant to this discussion, and will assume it's as such for the remaining portion of my argument, for this reason: I am not judging the quality of people, but the positive or negative consequences of a set of actions.

Though disease killed the bulk of the natives, what followed for many survivors was either literal death at the hands of the new worlders (a slaughter which would last for centuries), or cultural death due to proselytization.

Even if we are to disregard the effects on the natives themselves, I believe it was the discovery of the New World and its colonization that led to the economic necessity that drove the triangular trade, spurring the enslavement of countless Africans.

I'm sure I missed some negative consequences, and I'm sure I'm forgetting some positive consequences. My knowledge is rather surface level.

Also, I'd like to know why you think the New World was better discovered pre-Enlightenment. While the Enlightenment wasn't really a coherent movement, my understanding is that it was a general trend towards more respect for human life (and the reaction to that newfound respect). This manifested as individualism (liberty and tolerance) and the rejection of traditional Christian theology (and in some rare cases, Christianity itself). Wouldn't the former cause more people to challenge the actions in the New World, and the latter discourage some forms of proselytization? Though it could also be said that even mid-Enlightenment they didn't hesitate to take quite abhorrent actions in the New World, so maybe not.

Not usually, no.

I don't consider myself "woke." Also, when did I say anything about recognizing or not recognizing the achievements of Columbus? We should definitely recognize them, and we should definitely note them. Where did you get that?

My High School was in the rural area of one of the most republican states in the country. My teachers were very open to having respectful discussions about their ideals, which sort of counteracts the whole idea that they attempted to indoctrinate. I very rarely agreed with either my liberal or conservative (your terms, not mine) teachers.

Also, I don't really "hate" western culture or even the US. I'm not a big fan of the US or western culture, but I certainly prefer them over any other culture on the planet, and they'll be a good stepping stone to greater improvement in the future.

As for what grade I'm in, I'm in my sophomore year of university.

Why not?

Oh? What'd I do that people haven't been doing for the past hundred years?

Someone's allergic to respectful discussion.

That's a really interesting view, and I certainly respect that. It's all a matter of perspective.

You forget several things

SLAVERY that columbus put upon the island people--Catholics mainly Spanish had awful consequences for all that they encountered.
How awful the Aztecs/Incas/Mayans and others were down south--so evil and rotten that even the Spanish Catholics were a small step up
and Finally, all the good that the US has done and that in many ways it became a beacon for others. The world would have been conquered by Germany if not for the US being a world superpower in 1940's which took 150 years to become.

 

[Meathead]

He didn't discover nothing---he was lost when he came and lost when he left. He was a slaver, abusive, and known to be insane.

How could he have been lost when he made the same trip four times? He found the Americas for Europe which spread Western civilization to a quarter of the world, more so than Augustus, Alexander and any other figure human history.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Oh? Why? Care to tell me what I got wrong? I'd love to learn.

If the Unfit Thrive, the Fittest Won't Survive

The law of evolution is "Use It or Lose It." Nature doesn't recognize seniority rights. If Whites hadn't developed America and left it to the unevolved Indigenees instead, it would be among the poorest and most violent countries on earth today. Also, the whole world benefits from having let Whites do the job, which is our destiny.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

So you think facts are dependent upon the political affiliation of who tells them to you?

If a communist tells you 2+2=4? Then it has to be a lie huh?

No, but when someone says that Socialism is the best thing over capitalism, that is a lie....

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

There was nothing to get "wrong". All you did was state your opinions, which are about what I would expect coming from a second year college student with no experience in the real world, and a propensity to be easily influenced by your left-wing professors.

Academia Is Child-Molesting Mind-Rape

In college, the student lives like a child. So he has the mind of a child, looking up the professors as infallible father-figures.

College is work without pay, which is an insult to intelligence. It is for teenagers who are afraid to grow up. An academically trained intellectual has as little to do with being intelligent as a sportswriter has to do with being athletic.

 

[Turtlesoup]

How could he have been lost when he made the same trip four times? He found the Americas for Europe which spread Western civilization to a quarter of the world, more so than Augustus, Alexander and any other figure human history.

You were never taught why native americans are called INDIANS? As in west Indies or more specifically INDONESIA? Not even the West Indian story?

 

[Meathead]

You were never taught why native americans are called INDIANS? As in west Indies or more specifically INDONESIA? Not even the West Indian story?

Really?! Would have never figured that out.

 

[22lcidw]

In your vigilance to defend your values of the American Republic, your zeal will destroy it.

But you are a Prog. And they seem to promote violence and mayhem. Which technically means they are monsters. No different then the issues in the Deep South with segregation and other things. We can make things better, but there is no perfection. And that is what you are looking for. China has no time for that.

 

[yumegari]

If the Unfit Thrive, the Fittest Won't Survive

The law of evolution is "Use It or Lose It." Nature doesn't recognize seniority rights. If Whites hadn't developed America and left it to the unevolved Indigenees instead, it would be among the poorest and most violent countries on earth today. Also, the whole world benefits from having let Whites do the job, which is our destiny.

I agreed with you right up until the part where you said "If Whites hadn't developed America...." Nature and how we structure society should ideally have little to do with each other. The fact that we have even managed to achieve modern society is a sign that society doesn't have to reflect nature in the rawest sense. If the goal of each individual is to achieve happiness, which I would argue is the natural goal of all beings, then that should also be the goal of society. And to maximize the happiness of as many people as possible, you must go against, or at the very least manipulate, the methodology Mother Nature uses to select the "fittest."

Not only are there factual flaws in racism, racism simply isn't a good way to create a society in which the happiness of as many people as possible is maximized, especially in a society with increasing global awareness.

It could also reasonably be argued that those in tribal societies are happier than those in modern capitalist societies. If we never discovered the New World, natives wouldn't have ever faced the modern African fate.

Also destiny is a load of BS, as if whites have always been on top.

Academia Is Child-Molesting Mind-Rape

In college, the student lives like a child. So he has the mind of a child, looking up the professors as infallible father-figures.

College is work without pay, which is an insult to intelligence. It is for teenagers who are afraid to grow up. An academically trained intellectual has as little to do with being intelligent as a sportswriter has to do with being athletic.

The student lives like a child? How so? The student is constantly challenged to push their intellectual boundaries, exit their comfort zone.

Professors as infallible father-figures? Far from it. Professors encourage you to challenge them. I've never had a professor that didn't borderline force me to challenge their ideas, I never had a professor that wasn't happy to see me think for myself, to critically oppose what was taught.

College is work without pay? What's trade school, then? Naturally, you must put in some work to reach a point where you can earn a return. That's been a thing for about as long as society has been a thing.

 

[Road Runner]

If a communist tells you 2+2=4? Then it has to be a lie huh?

I wonder if Joe Biden can even count that high.