Battle of Bakhmud won by Russia

[frigidweirdo]

Almost nobody (including Putin) wants a war. The only question is what kind of peace is acceptable.

Putin wanted the war in the first place. Only because he thought he'd win it really quickly. And that's only because he runs his country in the way he does and corruption is rife and his stooges are stooges.

How he didn't know this stuff in the first place is mind boggling.

However, Putin still wants the war NOW. Why?

Because he can't lose the war. Everything he's built, his power, his money, EVERYTHING is dependent upon him winning this war. And he's nowhere near winning.

 

[luiza]

Almost nobody (including Putin) wants a war. The only question is what kind of peace is acceptable.

Until there is clear evidence to the contrary , I believe Dear Uncle retains his original “wish list” which is eight regions in total —— a further four , and a general total clean out of the Nazis and everything associated with Kyiv —— and that of course means removing the Deep State and the influence of the US military and industrial complex . A formidable series of objectives . As that will require further time, he is uninterested in any negotiated settlement now because on current form the US proxy forces have little or no chance of halting his deliberate and well considered advance . Imho

 

[ESay]

Those who actually - directly ruled Slavic lands - respectively the former Czarist Russian territory incl. Romania and Serbia for the past 500 years and right down to the Kiev-Rus Federation, were the Bojare's (бояре) or (боляри) - mostly constituting out of the born nobility and rich merchants aspiring to become Bojars or actually were elevated to Bojar status.

This system has in principle never changed in the past 1300 years until today (or in other words; has been cemented into Slavic society for 1300 years) - even if e.g. Romania, Poland, Hungary, Russia or Ukraine is termed to be democratic - the guys running those countries are all based on this former Bojar class system. Upgraded and further refined during Zar Peter the Great by officially classifying the 14 ranks that run the Empire. This hereditary ruling system was only disrupted via the Communists - who created their own Bojars, aka Party Chairman/Commissioners or party Vice chairman's - whilst trying to exterminate and disown as many "original" Bojars as possible - but who had also managed to flee into the West.

Upon the dissolution of the Communist parties in those former Communist states - the new head honchos instituted their comeback according to this Bojar system and most or many of those pulling the strings being very wealthy survivors/descendants of these former Bojar families - living in the West.

As I had stated earlier on - I am personally acquainted with one of these "original" Ukrainian Bojars since 1992, who was part of the Bojar circle that had instituted the Ukrainian President - Kravchuk in 1991. (factually a Polish communist Bojar) and replaced him with an Ukrainian Communist Bojar, Kuschma in 1994. The people who are factually pulling and holding the strings in Ukraine, are ALL "original" Ukrainian Bojars who came back out of exile from the West or still reside in the West.

These new Bojars - reject Democracy and Communism - but will/are making use of democracy to cement their positions. Ukraine is an absolute perfect classic example of this Bojar construct - just as the country itself is a construct of these people/Bojars.

Today this Bojar system has been verbally simplified and distorted via the term Oligarchs - Putin is the present head honcho - or Head Bojar in Russia - stressing his claim to be the Czar of all Bojars. The Goebbels scholar is now self elevated since 2020 into the rank of a Head-Bojar (also behaves accordingly) - but still is controlled/entangled and partially rejected by the Ukrainian and Polish Head Bojars. And his position "rank" is therefore anything but stable.

And Czar aspirant Putin, simply doesn't accept a Head-Bojar being appointed without his consent.

Prigozhin is rich and powerful but not an accredited Bojar - so he serves his aspirant Czar as best as he can, - to eventually become elevated into this Bojar class, maybe even being elevated into a Head-Bojar to rule or rather preside over Ukraine under the Czar.

Victor Orbán- is another classic example of a new Bojar - having been instituted by "original' Hungarian Bojars residing in the West. Same goes for e.g. Poland.

Since you are an Ukrainian - you should actually be aware about this.

Not sure whether you show agreement or disagreement with my post, but OK.

Also, it is needed to say it was one of the versions. Not necessarily true one.

 

[Bleipriester]

Strong article:

Russia takes Bakhmut: Taking stock of the warâs bloodiest battle so far

CHASIV YAR, Donetsk Oblast – Ten months after Russia's assault on the once-flourishing city in Donetsk Oblast began, Bakhmut has now been effectively occupied by Russian troops. This hasn’t been confirmed yet by Kyiv, but is evident based on both official statements and those made by soldiers...

kyivindependent.com

 

[krichton]

No. Even with nukes, it won't change anything. The 4th gen fighters are totally useless against S-400 and Su-57, especially without ground infrastructure and AWACS...

Russia hasn't even flown an SU57 against the Ukrainians and their Su24s and Migs. They're about as rare as seeing a T-14 Armata on the battlefield lol. The s400 can't even stop HIMARS missiles, and quite frankly they don't even have that many of these. Everything Russia has is either junk or in insanely short supply. That's why they're losing.

 

[krichton]

Almost nobody (including Putin) wants a war. The only question is what kind of peace is acceptable.

The first thing he did when he entered office is attack Chechnya, then he invaded Georgia, then he invaded Ukraine and annexed Crimea, then he invaded Ukraine again, with plans to move onto Maldova when he was finished with Ukraine. Putin loves war, he loves it very very much.

 

[krichton]

Putin wanted the war in the first place. Only because he thought he'd win it really quickly. And that's only because he runs his country in the way he does and corruption is rife and his stooges are stooges.

How he didn't know this stuff in the first place is mind boggling.

However, Putin still wants the war NOW. Why?

Because he can't lose the war. Everything he's built, his power, his money, EVERYTHING is dependent upon him winning this war. And he's nowhere near winning.

Russia has lost, Putin is simply going through the motions till the counteroffensive has begun. He can thank the Americans for delaying it. Kyiev is still waiting for those small diameter bombs.

 

[Kruska]

Strong article:

Russia takes Bakhmut: Taking stock of the warâs bloodiest battle so far

CHASIV YAR, Donetsk Oblast – Ten months after Russia's assault on the once-flourishing city in Donetsk Oblast began, Bakhmut has now been effectively occupied by Russian troops. This hasn’t been confirmed yet by Kyiv, but is evident based on both official statements and those made by soldiers...

kyivindependent.com

A good article in regards to summarizing the timeline.

However - especially within the last paragraphs, this NAZI and Goebbels doctrine shines through all the way.
Despite all senior Wehrmacht officers incl. v. Paulus trying to convince Hitler to let go of Stalingrad - Hitlers counterargument was that everyday to hold is crucial in order to bind as many Russian troops as possible. Unlike Hitler or the Ukrainian Goebbels scholar - those Wehrmacht officers knew that Wehrmacht losses couldn't be replaced - but those of the Russians could.

Hitlers fantasy in regards to the Battle of Kursk - It would be a defining point in enabling victory against Russia - again ignoring the massive buildup of new Russian forces and the continued weakening of the Wehrmacht on all other parts of the front - especially in regards to replacing hardware. Furthermore the constant delay to attack the Kursk bulge - based on - new super tanks and Luftwaffe equipment are coming, we need more time to assemble more of them - exact the same repeat now via the Goebbels scholar.

Ignoring that reserve potential of Russia - and enabling them to dig in and erect formidable defense positions, whilst waiting for western super tanks and aircraft.

As long as the Goebbels scholar - just as the Bohemian corporal is allowed to play military supreme commander and military genius - Ukraine doesn't have a chance.

Now why is NATO allowing for this? IMO, because they don't really give a shit about Ukraine - but simply use this military confrontation to wear out Russia - politically and economically. And the Goebbels scholar has the perfect "qualification" to drag out this needless and ridiculous war. Pleasing his present US masters strategy in regards to; we have the $$ - let's bleed out Russia for as long as possible.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Russia has lost, Putin is simply going through the motions till the counteroffensive has begun. He can thank the Americans for delaying it. Kyiev is still waiting for those small diameter bombs.

Well, Putin has lost from the standpoint of what he wanted. If he can exit the war with those mostly ethnically Russian regions he might claim some sort of victory.

 

[JohnDB]

Well, Putin has lost from the standpoint of what he wanted. If he can exit the war with those mostly ethnically Russian regions he might claim some sort of victory.

There's no way that he can. Ukraine is fed up with Russia and wants Crimea back. There's no way that Russia gets to keep Sevastopol....and there's no way Putin stays in power without it.

With the whole world enforcing sanctions on Russia and placing sanctions on those who don't....it's over! It really doesn't matter if militarily Russia wins....because they still would be under sanctions. And Russia has burned through ⅔ of their cash reserves and almost all of their precious metal reserves at this point. It was just last month that the most severe portions of the sanctions came into existence.

By this Fall the Russian Govt will be completely bankrupt. At that point the war itself will be what props them up economically.
CCP is also on notice about its violations of sanctions....their lack of morality is going to be their undoing. They are about to get hit with official sanctions instead of voluntary ones. They know better....and are getting used to the concept.

 

[Bleipriester]

A good article in regards to summarizing the timeline.

However - especially within the last paragraphs, this NAZI and Goebbels doctrine shines through all the way.
Despite all senior Wehrmacht officers incl. v. Paulus trying to convince Hitler to let go of Stalingrad - Hitlers counterargument was that everyday to hold is crucial in order to bind as many Russian troops as possible. Unlike Hitler or the Ukrainian Goebbels scholar - those Wehrmacht officers knew that Wehrmacht losses couldn't be replaced - but those of the Russians could.

Hitlers fantasy in regards to the Battle of Kursk - It would be a defining point in enabling victory against Russia - again ignoring the massive buildup of new Russian forces and the continued weakening of the Wehrmacht on all other parts of the front - especially in regards to replacing hardware. Furthermore the constant delay to attack the Kursk bulge - based on - new super tanks and Luftwaffe equipment are coming, we need more time to assemble more of them - exact the same repeat now via the Goebbels scholar.

Ignoring that reserve potential of Russia - and enabling them to dig in and erect formidable defense positions, whilst waiting for western super tanks and aircraft.

As long as the Goebbels scholar - just as the Bohemian corporal is allowed to play military supreme commander and military genius - Ukraine doesn't have a chance.

Now why is NATO allowing for this? IMO, because they don't really give a shit about Ukraine - but simply use this military confrontation to wear out Russia - politically and economically. And the Goebbels scholar has the perfect "qualification" to drag out this needless and ridiculous war. Pleasing his present US masters strategy in regards to; we have the $$ - let's bleed out Russia for as long as possible.

The Germans were convinced that the Russians would not be able to recover from the overwhelming German successes in the first stage of the war against Russia. But they did no other mistake than underestimating the Russians even in 1945. The Germans went over to the defense in Russia not due to the winter but because of the heavy losses they suffered during their Blitzkrieg together with the fact that the armored, mechanized troops stood well before the infantry divisions. The losses during the Blitzkrieg were about 40 to 70 % of the troops, tanks ect, varying from division to division. They secretly went defensive during the winter and planned the final strike thereafter. In Stalingrad, it wasn´t the goal to bind hostile troops. They told this the Germans but the fact that the Hoot army was tasked to break the cauldron tells the true story. Hoot started his mission but was not successful. Only after that Hitler decided to sacrifice the troops. Stalingrad was a very important goal of the Germans. Hitler set priorities, first was cutting the Russian´s oil supply, second was destroying the industry and third beating the troops. Stalingrad was one of the major Russian industrial hubs.
In Kursk, the Germans deployed their new super tanks, the Panther and the Tiger. Both suffered from teething troubles, they didn´t undergo the usual testing. Most of them were disabled due to flawed transmissions, ect and the crews had to abandon and destroy them.

As for Bakhmut, Selensky was told to give up on it, by the West and later by his own army. But Selensky declared Bakhmut a fortress in December, a term the Germans used for cities that may not be given up on in WWII. Selensky stressed that Bakhmut is of great strategic importance in 2023. Its loss would open the lands for the Russian advance. He is in luck, his great offensive, even on the paper only, made the Russians prepare defenses instead of offensives. Now he lost Bakhmut, but Russia lost Wagner. We do now have a stalemate in the war and only time will tell how it will end.

 

[frigidweirdo]

There's no way that he can. Ukraine is fed up with Russia and wants Crimea back. There's no way that Russia gets to keep Sevastopol....and there's no way Putin stays in power without it.

With the whole world enforcing sanctions on Russia and placing sanctions on those who don't....it's over! It really doesn't matter if militarily Russia wins....because they still would be under sanctions. And Russia has burned through ⅔ of their cash reserves and almost all of their precious metal reserves at this point. It was just last month that the most severe portions of the sanctions came into existence.

By this Fall the Russian Govt will be completely bankrupt. At that point the war itself will be what props them up economically.
CCP is also on notice about its violations of sanctions....their lack of morality is going to be their undoing. They are about to get hit with official sanctions instead of voluntary ones. They know better....and are getting used to the concept.

Yes, there are ways. The Ukraine does NOT have infinite number of people willing to fight and die. Russia has way more, a war of attrition hurts Russia, but destroys the Ukraine.

 

[krichton]

Well, Putin has lost from the standpoint of what he wanted. If he can exit the war with those mostly ethnically Russian regions he might claim some sort of victory.

I don’t know how, Ukraine will never go for it.

 

[krichton]

Yes, there are ways. The Ukraine does NOT have infinite number of people willing to fight and die. Russia has way more, a war of attrition hurts Russia, but destroys the Ukraine.

What you’re saying is true, but at some point Russia will simply be running untrained civilians with shovels into improvised flak guns, and mines, ready to turn them into ground up meat. There won’t be many Ukrainians dying from what weapons they’ll have left., Russians on the other hand…

 

[frigidweirdo]

I don’t know how, Ukraine will never go for it.

The Ukraine might not have much of a choice at some point. You can't keep losing soldiers like they are.

 

[frigidweirdo]

What you’re saying is true, but at some point Russia will simply be running untrained civilians with shovels into improvised flak guns, and mines, ready to turn them into ground up meat. There won’t be many Ukrainians dying from what weapons they’ll have left., Russians on the other hand…

And who do you think is fighting for the Ukrainians? They're all untrained.

 

[JohnDB]

Yes, there are ways. The Ukraine does NOT have infinite number of people willing to fight and die. Russia has way more, a war of attrition hurts Russia, but destroys the Ukraine.

Yes but Ukraine is not alone in their dislike of Russian aggression and takeovers. Georgia, Chechnya, and several other nations are considering the possibility of having an uprising while Russia is so busy fighting in Ukraine.

Russia can't fight the whole world....but it is trying. Especially as the sanctions get worse and worse for them. Currently Russia has been out begging for anyone to trade with them and not the sources for 90% of the world's economy. (It isn't working)

 

[Kruska]

..... In Stalingrad, it wasn´t the goal to bind hostile troops. They told this the Germans but the fact that the Hoot army was tasked to break the cauldron tells the true story. Hoot started his mission but was not successful. Only after that Hitler decided to sacrifice the troops. Stalingrad was a very important goal of the Germans.

No, Manstein had formed a special assembled Army Corps - Hoth and others were ordered by Manstein to break the Russian encirclement of Stalingrad in order for Paulus to break out and thus supporting Manstein's plan. Unfortunately Paulus (a weakling and Hitler believer) requested permission to break out of Stalingrad (with his still intact 6th Army) to meet up with Hoth spearheading the advance from the West - and then to reestablish a new front line, around Kalach (100km) west of Stalingrad, knowing that Stalingrad could not be held. Hitler refused this tactical promising pincer-movement, telling Paulus it is essential for the 6th Army to stay in Stalingrad in order to bind Russian troops - that might otherwise cut off the Wehrmacht units in the Caucasus. Therefore Manstein's plan was doomed to fail - and Paulus fate was sealed.

Hoth and others were only given the order to break the Russian encirclement, because Hitler had chosen to ignore Manstein and his own WH HQ warning, that the northern and southern flanks held by Italians, Rumanians and Hungarians would not be able to withstand a Russian offensive - which could lead to the entrapment of the 6th Army.

Before Stalingrad the Wehrmacht had never attacked or engaged into urban warfare a large city - not even to mention a huge city like Stalingrad- before having eliminated Russian forces and encircling the respective city. Thus making sure that Russian reinforcements could not support the respective city or launch a counterattack onto Wehrmacht units around and behind the encircled city. And exactly that was impossible in view of Stalingrad - due to Russian troops still holding parts of the Western bank (Stalingrad) and being in total control of the Eastern bank of the Volga.

Furthermore the Bohemian corporal had suddenly changed the initial sanctioned HQ plan to only take Stalingrad via Army Group South as a first, and then to move into the Caucasus. But then ordering a simultaneous attack onto Stalingrad and the Caucasus - thus splitting Army Group South into Army Group A (Caucasus) and B (Stalingrad) . Thus overstretching the already precarious Wehrmacht supply situation and even worse, therefore enabling large Russian forces to escape eastwards via the corridor the A and B movements had caused. These Russian troops then went to Stalingrad and additionally set up at the East Volga bank.

As for Bakhmut, Selensky was told to give up on it, by the West and later by his own army. But Selensky declared Bakhmut a fortress in December, a term the Germans used for cities that may not be given up on in WWII. Selensky stressed that Bakhmut is of great strategic importance in 2023. Its loss would open the lands for the Russian advance. He is in luck, his great offensive, even on the paper only, made the Russians prepare defenses instead of offensives. Now he lost Bakhmut, but Russia lost Wagner. We do now have a stalemate in the war and only time will tell how it will end.

Bachmuth is the exact replica of Stalingrad - with the Goebbels scholar ignoring the flanks around Bachmut - taking falsely into account that the RF wouldn't be able to perform two flanking outmaneuvers - South and North around Bachmut - and therefore impeding, lastly cutting of the supply lines into Bachmut. Instead of ordering an organized retreat out of Bachmut into the behind Bachmut set defense lines and meeting up with the UAF reserves - The Goebbels scholar ordered additional Brigades of the UAF reserves to go into Bachmut and to attack the Russian flanks. And was clearly outnumbered and outgunned by the Russians - just as Manstein's relief force under Hoth.

This logically happens if a former Comedian, and now Goebbels scholar, involves himself into military plannings and placing himself on-top of the UAF's CIC, Zaluzhny - who now is either paying the price of political sacrifice or is indeed out of action due to WIA.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Whatever symbolic or military / political significance the battle of Bakhmut’s may have … it is not comparable to Stalingrad. Calling Zelensky “the Goebbels Scholar” doesn’t make him a Nazi either.

Krushka can talk up his crazy parallels all he wants — but independent and sovereign Ukraine, even aided by NATO and even under hard Ukrainian nationalist leadership, is not comparable to Hitler and his fascist / imperialist alliance seeking “lebensraum,” genocide against Slavic people & Jews, world domination, etc.

Ukraine did not invade deep into Russia seeking to destroy it. Just the opposite. However much we may regret that this war broke out, or assign “historical blame” to one side or another (including the U.S.), and want to encourage peace, it is clear that a significant Russian defeat of its invasion is necessary, and has to a large extent already occurred. Russia’s desire to “un-make” Ukraine completely or put it back totally under its political control is impossible, and would be disastrous if it were to succeed.

Listen to the ex-Russian president openly declare the nationalist Kiev regime must cease to exist:

Kiev regime must cease to exist – ex-Russian president

P.S. By the way, Kruska , the American English spelling for the old class of aristocratic and princely landlords (who no longer exist) is, I believe, “Boyars.”

 

[AlexanderPK]

Yes but Ukraine is not alone in their dislike of Russian aggression and takeovers. Georgia, Chechnya, and several other nations are considering the possibility of having an uprising while Russia is so busy fighting in Ukraine.

Russia can't fight the whole world....but it is trying. Especially as the sanctions get worse and worse for them. Currently Russia has been out begging for anyone to trade with them and not the sources for 90% of the world's economy. (It isn't working)

It's like you've all watched some stupid HBO series, say Chernobyl, took the claptrap depicted there for reality and now are vehemently chastising this parallel world Russia as if the real Russia gives a damn about it. Medvedev says what 90% + of us think, so take your chastising and shove it. Ukraine is done for.