Battle of Bakhmud won by Russia

[Kruska]

Whatever symbolic or military / political significance the battle of Bakhmut’s may have … it is not comparable to Stalingrad. Calling Zelensky “the Goebbels Scholar” doesn’t make him a Nazi either.

Krushka can talk up his crazy parallels all he wants — but independent and sovereign Ukraine, even aided by NATO and even under hard Ukrainian nationalist leadership, is not comparable to Hitler and his fascist / imperialist alliance seeking “lebensraum,” genocide against Slavic people & Jews, world domination, etc.

Ukraine did not invade deep into Russia seeking to destroy it. Just the opposite. However much we may regret that this war broke out, or assign “historical blame” to one side or another (including the U.S.), and want to encourage peace, it is clear that a significant Russian defeat of its invasion is necessary, and has to a large extent already occurred. Russia’s desire to “un-make” Ukraine completely or put it back totally under its political control is impossible, and would be disastrous if it were to succeed.

Listen to the ex-Russian president openly declare the nationalist Kiev regime must cease to exist:

Kiev regime must cease to exist – ex-Russian president

P.S. By the way, Kruska , the American English term for the old class of aristocratic and princely landlords (who no longer exist) is, I believe, “Boyars.”

This isn't about Ukraine being in the right or Russia, or who started or who caused this ridiculous war - which kind of puts you out of Balance.

This was about comparing the failures and tactical similarities between Bachmut and Stalingrad - and both (off-course you don't like the comparison) had an extreme impact onto the future of that time Nazi Germany and now Ukraine - losses that can't be replaced at ease or even at all - and can't be hidden from the Ukrainian public. And further gives proof of the inability of the Goebbels scholar in regards to military issues. And as such the total failure of this Ukraine government and the artificial Ukraine construct itself.

Anyone who is familiar with Czarist Russia's history knows that the term Bojar (бояре) or (боляри) derives from that area and is independent from what American or English might have called their nobility - especially with America that never had a ruling nobility class. And the ages old English 13th century version of Boyar comes from the French Boyard.

BTW - you write like you need friends to support you - uh...guys please help me... this Kruska... - you are just a silly and pathetic person.

 

[Bleipriester]

No, Manstein had formed a special assembled Army Corps - Hoth and others were ordered by Manstein to break the Russian encirclement of Stalingrad in order for Paulus to break out and thus supporting Manstein's plan. Unfortunately Paulus (a weakling and Hitler believer) requested permission to break out of Stalingrad (with his still intact 6th Army) to meet up with Hoth spearheading the advance from the West - and then to reestablish a new front line, around Kalach (100km) west of Stalingrad, knowing that Stalingrad could not be held. Hitler refused this tactical promising pincer-movement, telling Paulus it is essential for the 6th Army to stay in Stalingrad in order to bind Russian troops - that might otherwise cut off the Wehrmacht units in the Caucasus. Therefore Manstein's plan was doomed to fail - and Paulus fate was sealed.

Hoth and others were only given the order to break the Russian encirclement, because Hitler had chosen to ignore Manstein and his own WH HQ warning, that the northern and southern flanks held by Italians, Rumanians and Hungarians would not be able to withstand a Russian offensive - which could lead to the entrapment of the 6th Army.

Before Stalingrad the Wehrmacht had never attacked or engaged into urban warfare a large city - not even to mention a huge city like Stalingrad- before having eliminated Russian forces and encircling the respective city. Thus making sure that Russian reinforcements could not support the respective city or launch a counterattack onto Wehrmacht units around and behind the encircled city. And exactly that was impossible in view of Stalingrad - due to Russian troops still holding parts of the Western bank (Stalingrad) and being in total control of the Eastern bank of the Volga.

Furthermore the Bohemian corporal had suddenly changed the initial sanctioned HQ plan to only take Stalingrad via Army Group South as a first, and then to move into the Caucasus. But then ordering a simultaneous attack onto Stalingrad and the Caucasus - thus splitting Army Group South into Army Group A (Caucasus) and B (Stalingrad) . Thus overstretching the already precarious Wehrmacht supply situation and even worse, therefore enabling large Russian forces to escape eastwards via the corridor the A and B movements had caused. These Russian troops then went to Stalingrad and additionally set up at the East Volga bank.

Read here about the German strategy:
Ukraine has 200,000 troops for planned offensive: Wagner Boss Prigozhin

Bachmuth is the exact replica of Stalingrad - with the Goebbels scholar ignoring the flanks around Bachmut - taking falsely into account that the RF wouldn't be able to perform two flanking outmaneuvers - South and North around Bachmut - and therefore impeding, lastly cutting of the supply lines into Bachmut. Instead of ordering an organized retreat out of Bachmut into the behind Bachmut set defense lines and meeting up with the UAF reserves - The Goebbels scholar ordered additional Brigades of the UAF reserves to go into Bachmut and to attack the Russian flanks. And was clearly outnumbered and outgunned by the Russians - just as Manstein's relief force under Hoth.

This logically happens if a former Comedian, and now Goebbels scholar, involves himself into military plannings and placing himself on-top of the UAF's CIC, Zaluzhny - who now is either paying the price of political sacrifice or is indeed out of action due to WIA.

You lost the objectivity now. If Bakhmut is something like a last barrier before the Russians flood the country, you have to defend it. It must have been very crucial to Kiev, when they throw hardly trained troops "recruited" from the streets into the city. If the West wasn´t insisting on an offensive, Kiev would have been able to deploy way more and better trained troops in Bakhmut, where the battle has been ongoing when an offensive was not yet on the table. Things would have been developed differently in this case, better or worse for Ukraine, how could we know? Fact is that the Russian offensive potential has been diminished now as Wagner is on holidays, "licking wounds" according to Prigoshin. That means Russia lost its most powerful force while the Ukrainian ability to conduct massive urban warfare is still intact. While Russia has eliminated most of the NS groupings like Azov, the core element of this Ukrainian nazism, the anti-Russian stance, now spreads through the entire population and not even the untrained soldiers of Bakhmut ran away. Prigoshin was full of praise for the Ukrainian staff in Bakhmut. It means Russia has the upper hand in terms of arms and munitions but Ukraine has the better fighting spirit.

 

[krichton]

And who do you think is fighting for the Ukrainians? They're all untrained.

Nope, they actually go through a normal bootcamp. You’re talking about ruissian soldiers which are mostly just brought to the front within 48 hours of picking them up. This has been reported in either intercepted calls or from directly from captured soldiers themselves. One soldier even claimed they gave him a tank to drive and he had never even been in a tank before and he just learned on the fly. Ukrainians would never do this because they don’t treat their soldiers like meat.

 

[krichton]

The Ukraine might not have much of a choice at some point. You can't keep losing soldiers like they are.

Ukraine suffers loses because they’re an under equipped army, not because they’re running around in a foreign country with no food, no water, no training and terrible commanders. They chose to stay in bahkmut so they could whittle away at the Wagner army while they wait for equipment and training to be done, so they did take some losses there, but now Ukraine has modern tanks, modern ifvs, modern air defense, modern missiles, and in 4 months they’ll have f16s. Once the counteroffensive has begun Russia will probably lose troops and equipment at a rate of 10 to 1 or greater. They’ll just keep pushing until every Russian has left Ukraine or has died. You can’t claim Ukrainian territory while they are dropping bombs on your heads every day. They can use cheap small diameter bombs to take out every single ifv and tank in the remaining occupied areas without having to roll in a single tank lol. Putin has no way to keep anything he currently has.

 

[badger2]

Bahmut: Bodies Sent Back

 

[para bellum]

Bahmut: Bodies Sent Back

Wagner propagandizing. They want to make sure people in the US and Turkey see those flag draped coffins.

A month ago they posted a 3 minute long video of them sawing off the head of a captured Ukrainian soldier.

Wagner isn't digging through the rubble of Bakhmut looking for dead bodies. There are thousands of them lying around on the ground. The only time they would search through the rubble is if they needed to recover one of their own commanders.

They are bailing from Bakhmut. They emptied out Russia's prisons and threw the convicts at the AFU in human waves until the AFU ran out of mortar shells. Then they leveled Bakhmut with bombs and artillery, incinerated the rubble for good measure, and posed with a flag for the Tik-Tok video.

Mission accomplished, it's off to Sudan to kill villagers who can't fight back as hard.

Russian regforce now going in to occupy Bakhmut, we'll see how that works out...

 

[JohnDB]

And who does prisoner swaps in the middle of a war unless it's for someone extremely special (like the Ukrainian Oligarch which is Putin's best friend and the source of much corruption)

That whole prisoner swap thing shocked me....the war is not over....why on earth would they do that?

 

[para bellum]

And who does prisoner swaps in the middle of a war unless it's for someone extremely special (like the Ukrainian Oligarch which is Putin's best friend and the source of much corruption)

That whole prisoner swap thing shocked me....the war is not over....why on earth would they do that?

They have been exchanging prisoners since the very beginning. This was the first one, I think they did 3 that month. The marines that were captured on Snake Island were among the early exchanges.

Ukraine, Russia Exchange Prisoners For First Time Since Invasion, Ukrainian Military Officer Says

Ukraine and Russia have exchanged prisoners for the first time since Russia launched a full-scale military attack against Ukraine last week, according to a Ukrainian military leader.

www.rferl.org

 

[skye]

 

[frigidweirdo]

Yes but Ukraine is not alone in their dislike of Russian aggression and takeovers. Georgia, Chechnya, and several other nations are considering the possibility of having an uprising while Russia is so busy fighting in Ukraine.

Russia can't fight the whole world....but it is trying. Especially as the sanctions get worse and worse for them. Currently Russia has been out begging for anyone to trade with them and not the sources for 90% of the world's economy. (It isn't working)

The funniest for Russia is that people are seeing how rubbish their weaponry is, this will cost them billions a year.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Nope, they actually go through a normal bootcamp. You’re talking about ruissian soldiers which are mostly just brought to the front within 48 hours of picking them up. This has been reported in either intercepted calls or from directly from captured soldiers themselves. One soldier even claimed they gave him a tank to drive and he had never even been in a tank before and he just learned on the fly. Ukrainians would never do this because they don’t treat their soldiers like meat.

Well, I think it's difficult to know what is going on. Russia could put their troops through "normal bootcamp" if it chose. It seems that there are some troops they're just using for cannon fodder, literally to be rid of them as human beings, and therefore can't be bothered. Perhaps the others are going through bootcamp.
The Ukraine needs troops and how effective their bootcamp is, and how much people are learning on the job is something that might not get out because the narrative is the most important.

 

[Kruska]

You lost the objectivity now. If Bakhmut is something like a last barrier before the Russians flood the country, you have to defend it.

Common sense tells you that one only defends what one can hold. Anything else is desperation or stupidity.
Ukraine does not have the manpower reserves that Russia has - so attrition warfare is about the most stupid idea Ukraine can come up with. Furthermore the Ukraine government can't justify higher losses to its population - whilst half the country is destroyed, it's economy fully down the drain and aside from some Woke Ukrainians living in Kiev and along the Polish border - 80% of it's population being without a regular job and income.

Only people who never fought in a war - or seen war with their own eyes - will propagate nonsense like - the Ukrainian people are fighting for freedom and democracy.
People only fight if they are forced to it by their own government or they can see a chance to win a war - which in the case of Ukraine simply isn't given.

The Goebbels scholar publicly stated on 05. July 2022; Lyssytschansk is Russia’s last victory on Ukrainian territory. - The Russians have had several "victories" since then - not just Bakhmut. But if you propagate Nazi style bullshit - then e.g. Backmut is the natural result.

And in military terms or tactical knowledge - if one can't secure the flanks of an objective - then that objective serves no military purpose. Just a political purpose. -see Stalingrad.

If the West wasn´t insisting on an offensive,

The West has never insisted on an offensive - the Goebbels scholar brought that up, in order to get $$ and to keep NATO supporting him - since NATO (excluding USA - they have their own motives in this matter) also can't see the meaning in continuing a war that has no winners and only results into further destruction and loss of lives.

Kiev would have been able to deploy way more and better trained troops in Bakhmut, where the battle has been ongoing when an offensive was not yet on the table. Things would have been developed differently in this case, better or worse for Ukraine, how could we know?

You don't win a war by holding onto own occupied objectives - that is what Hitler did for 3 years from 1942 onward. That is what the USA did in Vietnam, that is what ISAF did in Afghanistan, that is what the US did in Iraq - guess who lost and left?
Everyone was and is aware that Putin's primary objective since last year is the occupation of the Donbas - whilst holding onto the October 2022 front-line. The Goebbels scholar simply missed the given opportunity in August 2022 to break trough the southern front towards Mariupol or Melitopol. Instead he opted for a meaningless offensive towards Lyman, Kupiansk and Prykolotne. - a cheap strategic meaningless victory - but great for the propaganda mindset of the Goebbels scholar.

Fact is that the Russian offensive potential has been diminished now as Wagner is on holidays, "licking wounds" according to Prigoshin.
That means Russia lost its most powerful force while the Ukrainian ability to conduct massive urban warfare is still intact.

You still go for that propaganda bullshit? - well up to you.

While Russia has eliminated most of the NS groupings like Azov, the core element of this Ukrainian nazism, the anti-Russian stance, now spreads through the entire population and not even the untrained soldiers of Bakhmut ran away. Prigoshin was full of praise for the Ukrainian staff in Bakhmut. It means Russia has the upper hand in terms of arms and munitions but Ukraine has the better fighting spirit.

Nobody questions the UAF's fighting spirit - at least not me - I also never questioned the fighting spirit of the Wehrmacht in Russia. But everyone should also know that the longer a war takes (especially without some clear victories) the more the fighting spirit vanishes - also due to the core of units vanishing. Just as some people stated; The UAF lost it's best (Stalingrad and the 6th Army) whilst Russia lost it's worst - convicts and ill motivated, ill trained and equipped conscripts.

The Bulk of the Russian forces in Ukraine (around 85%) are conscripts and militia - held up by a skeleton consisting of the regular Russian forces. Aside from the initial drive onto Kiev in February 2022 and at pinpoints till May 2022 - regular Russian troops (never exceeding 80,000 men at any given time) never engaged in this ridiculous war.
Putin knew in March 2022 that his gamble towards Kiev had failed - and since then he engages into a longtime war of attrition - keeping the bulk of the regular Russian Army in Russia. That is were Wagner comes in - in regards to military offensive actions in Ukraine.

Whilst the Goebbels scholar propagates since May 2022 (now 1 year) - that the UAF will liberate all occupied territories. A band of mercenaries (never exeeding 20,000 men at any given time) manages to keep the UAF at bay and even consolidates additional territory. - wake up man.

 

[Kruska]

And who does prisoner swaps in the middle of a war unless it's for someone extremely special (like the Ukrainian Oligarch which is Putin's best friend and the source of much corruption)

That whole prisoner swap thing shocked me....the war is not over....why on earth would they do that?

Simply because it has a predetermined physiological effect on those fighting (not being POW"s yet) therefore the fighting force knowing that a.) their country will not simply abandon them, but help them, b.) that "inconsistencies" in regard to their capture will have consequences.

Independent of that you can be sure that more then 90% of those released POW's won't be able to walk or hold a weapon again.

 

[skye]

Oh look it's Lindsey!

 

[Silver Cat]

Russia hasn't even flown an SU57 against the Ukrainians and their Su24s and Migs. They're about as rare as seeing a T-14 Armata on the battlefield lol. The s400 can't even stop HIMARS missiles, and quite frankly they don't even have that many of these. Everything Russia has is either junk or in insanely short supply. That's why they're losing.

Actually, both sides (Shanghai Block and NATO) still keeping their best cards close to chest. The things are just warming up. And no, the Russians use Su-57 with their long-range missiles, but it is still prohibited them to enter Ukrainian airspace.

 

[Silver Cat]

And who does prisoner swaps in the middle of a war unless it's for someone extremely special (like the Ukrainian Oligarch which is Putin's best friend and the source of much corruption)

That whole prisoner swap thing shocked me....the war is not over....why on earth would they do that?

Why not? The prisoners are cheap, the Russians have plenty of them. And it's not a war yet, it's still a "special operation".

 

[Ringo]

In Bakhmut a restaurant owner and 60,000 convicts destroyed an army that NATO trained for 9 years.
Reminds me of the farmers in sandals that kicked the US out of Afghanistan.
The US Government spends a trillion dollars per year on a military, that can’t win anything. What a waste.

 

[krichton]

Actually, both sides (Shanghai Block and NATO) still keeping their best cards close to chest. The things are just warming up. And no, the Russians use Su-57 with their long-range missiles, but it is still prohibited them to enter Ukrainian airspace.

An Su57 that can't be flown across a border is essentially useless and serves little purpose other than for propaganda purposes.

 

[Silver Cat]

An Su57 that can't be flown across a border is essentially useless and serves little purpose other than for propaganda purposes.

They don't emphasize Su-57 (or anything else) too much. And no, they had shoot down some Ukrainian jets by their long-range missiles, but their real targets, what they supposed to fight are F-22 and F-35. So, they are mostly waiting for the opportunity.

 

[JohnDB]

They don't emphasize Su-57 (or anything else) too much. And no, they had shoot down some Ukrainian jets by their long-range missiles, but their real targets, what they supposed to fight are F-22 and F-35. So, they are mostly waiting for the opportunity.

Yeah.....they are going to be waiting a long time. Those aircraft have stealth technology and the ONLY thing that has kept the SU-57 flying was our unwillingness to shoot them down already....but you can live in hope as much as you want.