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Ban affirmative action. Support equality based on merit.

Jim H - VA USA

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We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported


Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action


What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...
You'll fit in great here, getting everything exactly ass backwards is a popular stance around here.
Did your parents have any children that weren't mentally challenged?
People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.
> People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.

OldLady, you just said that hiring based upon race is not racist. Literally.

You don't fight racism by instituting racist policies.

Instead of an insult you deserve, I'll give you a compliment... Cute avatar. :)
Racism involves believing other groups are inferior to yours. It's not a racist policy to break centuries of bigotry by encouraging minorities get a chance.

you think minorities need your encouragement? I don’t know sounds awfully paternalistic
I'm not one who hires or selects students to my university. But some of them do, yeah.
> I'm not one who hires or selects students to my university. But some of them [minorities] do, yeah.

OldLady, that's just more racism from you. Some of every group of people requires encouragement to succeed.

You keep focusing on skin color, when you should be focused on character. Extra help should be based upon need, not DNA. Counting skin colors and lowering standards for people based upon ethnicity is inherently racist and has been illegal for over 55 years..
I agree if everyone were that fair minded, that would be right. Everyone is not that fair minded.
Everyone is not that fair minded. I agree but you are defending the unfairness on one side while vilifying it on the other side. That is the same as Affirmative Action. Equality means equal treatment. Giving preferential treatment based on ethnicity is RACISM and "preferential" is contrary to "equal."
Actually the agency created to enforce and monitor compliance of the work portion of the Civil Rights Act is the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. Emphasis on "Opportunity".

Some of you sound like you're afraid you can't compete on a level playing field.
Never had anything else--I entered the workforce in 1965. I have worked blue collar jobs, white collar jobs and military in my career. In EVERY one of those jobs I worked and fought side by side with every ethnic and gender group in the US. In not one of those jobs were the wages paid one cent different by job. What wasn't the same was the playing field. Every one of those people that I worked with enjoyed employment preferences that were not available to me. Sure that playing field. You seem to think that you can be a perpetual victim of ---- race, gender, whatever. What you really are is a racist bigot.
You had white male preference. It's the preference that has existed since the country started. There are no perpetual victims, just perpetual amnesia based delusions by whites, specifically right wing white males.


Black bigots get actual preferences by law.

Blacks get privileges while whitesandasians get discrimination.

When asked, we get phantom "white privilege" bs and hate hoaxes as evidence of racism.

The black bigot hates whites and Asians, practices bigotry and discrimination against whites and Asians, and we are to conclude that the "problem" is not from the side practicing bigotry and discrimination, but the actual victims who are framed by the hate hoaxes.

Im2 has likely been involved in dozens of hate hoaxes, and likely sucked the dicks of both Jussie Smollett and Michelle Obama.
We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported


Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action


What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...
You'll fit in great here, getting everything exactly ass backwards is a popular stance around here.
Did your parents have any children that weren't mentally challenged?
People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.
> People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.

OldLady, you just said that hiring based upon race is not racist. Literally.

You don't fight racism by instituting racist policies.

Instead of an insult you deserve, I'll give you a compliment... Cute avatar. :)


Look how she worded it. Those supporting discrimination are not racist - but they are bigots, because in the sick mind of the bigoted leftwing hypocrite, there is a difference between racism and bigotry. Racism implies looking down, and hence blacks and all the other bogus "victim" classes of the left cannot be racist...

EVEN AS THEY PRACTICE BIGOTRY AND DISCRIMINATION
We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported

Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action

What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...
What's wrong with a merit standard? White racists do not believe or do not want to believe that there are black people who are just as capable, intelligent, skilled, and educated as they are. There are also some who exceed them in those areas as well, yet they would NEVER find them meritorious enough to receive things that they've worked for and are entitled to, whether it's a good paying good, a prestigious job promotion, acceptance into an ivy league school, etc.

A case in point, read the ridiculous comments that the resident white racists of USMB have made about black people and women, even when qualified, not being "the best" candidate and then employee to pilot a commercial aircraft, even after it was pointed out to them that they have been doing so, just not is substantially large numbers for the last close to 75 years.

But since white racists also suffer from inferiority complexes and financial & social envy of successful blacks (because they cannot reconcile mentally how a black person could ever do better than they have) they attribute this "anomaly" to blacks allegedly being given advantages denied to them, affirmative action being their favorite pinata that they like to whack .

I am of the opinion that perhaps the true reason for them lagging behind is lack of critical thinking skills and abysmal reading comprehension skills. Perhaps you can assist by pointing out where in the text below ANYONE is given preference over ANYONE else, let alone over WHITES?

While the concept of affirmative action has existed in America since the 19th century, it first appeared in its current form in President Kennedy's Executive Order 10925 (1961): "The contractor will take affirmative action to ensure that applicants are employed, and that employees are treated during employment, without regard to their race, creed, color, or national origin."​
For federal contractors and subcontractors, affirmative action must be taken by covered employers to recruit and advance qualified minorities, women, persons with disabilities, and covered veterans. Affirmative actions include training programs, outreach efforts, and other positive steps. These procedures should be incorporated into the company's written personnel policies. Employers with written affirmative action programs must implement them, keep them on file and update them annually. Affirmative Action | U.S. Department of Labor
COMMENT: According to the department of labor, you are WRONG. Racist.
Yeah, you pulled one segment out of the entire page and ignored all of the rest. The Department of Labor is also where I obtained the text of the affirmative action EO I quoted, it's the same government agency:
Executive Order 11246, As Amended | U.S. Department of Labor

So where does it give preference to "unqualified blacks" over "qualified" whites? Depending upon your interpretation of the law, the whole point of the program is to increase the pool of qualified candidates that employers can select from and making sure that they include minorities as well as others. Do you have the same hostilities towards veterans and persons with disabilities? They cover the whole spectrum of races.

And when the government gives you money (contracts) then they get to specify the way you conduct the business you do for them including insisting that you comply with any and all applicable anti-discrimination laws, which you should be doing anyway. If you want to insist upon your right to be a raging racist then fine you can work for someone else.

And I'm sure you know this but just in case you or anyone else didn't, white women have benefited from affirmative action more than any other demographic according to the U.S. Department of Labor (same agency once again)
Findings
  • The study found that compliance reviews initiated against an establishment in the 1970s significantly increased the share of women and African Americans it employed as managers, not only in the 1970s but also through the 1980s and 1990s. A first compliance review in the 1970s increased the odds of white women in management by an estimated 34 percent, of African American women by 18 percent, and of African American men by 28 percent.
  • Compliance reviews initiated in the 1970s led to significantly greater increases in female and African American employment shares than did reviews conducted in the 1980s.
  • Larger numbers of lawsuits significantly increased employment shares for women and African Americans.
Try reading everything next time--This section (in the link that I gave you) essentially dictates that the workforce of particular sized companies must have workforces that reflect to demographic of an area. Here is the pertinent ppg.
Subpart B—Purpose and Contents of Affirmative Action Programs

return arrow Back to Top
§60-2.10 General purpose and contents of affirmative action programs.
(a) Purpose. (1) An affirmative action program is a management tool designed to ensure equal employment opportunity. A central premise underlying affirmative action is that, absent discrimination, over time a contractor's workforce, generally, will reflect the gender, racial and ethnic profile of the labor pools from which the contractor recruits and selects. Affirmative action programs contain a diagnostic component which includes a number of quantitative analyses designed to evaluate the composition of the workforce of the contractor and compare it to the composition of the relevant labor pools. Affirmative action programs also include action-oriented programs. If women and minorities are not being employed at a rate to be expected given their availability in the relevant labor pool, the contractor's affirmative action program includes specific practical steps designed to address this underutilization. Effective affirmative action programs also include internal auditing and reporting systems as a means of measuring the contractor's progress toward achieving the workforce that would be expected in the absence of discrimination.
I refer you back to the portion of one of my previous comment in which I mention subpar reading comprehension abilities. What they're saying is that the workforce should reflect the composition of the "relevent labor pool" "absent discrimination":

Subpart B—Purpose and Contents of Affirmative Action Programs

return arrow Back to Top
§60-2.10 General purpose and contents of affirmative action programs.
(a) Purpose. (1) An affirmative action program is a management tool designed to ensure equal employment opportunity. A central premise underlying affirmative action is that, ****absent discrimination****, over time a contractor's workforce, generally, will reflect the gender, racial and ethnic profile of the labor pools from which the contractor recruits and selects. Affirmative action programs contain a diagnostic component which includes a number of quantitative analyses designed to evaluate the composition of the workforce of the contractor and compare it to the composition of the relevant labor pools. Affirmative action programs also include action-oriented programs. If women and minorities are not being employed at a rate to be expected given their availability in the relevant labor pool, the contractor's affirmative action program includes specific practical steps designed to address this underutilization. Effective affirmative action programs also include internal auditing and reporting systems as a means of measuring the contractor's progress toward achieving the workforce that would be expected ****in the absence of discrimination****.
By your reckoning the NBA should be 87% white. You are a racist and cannot compete on a level playing field--if you could, you would not be adverse to repealing affirmative action, indeed I feel that all mention of gender and race should be removed from any official documentation. You become XYZ123 in anything official and let the chips fall where they may. I am open to that scenario--ARE YOU?
Oh is that why you're laughing like a hyena? Because you think I'm a racist "victim" who cannot compete without affirmative action? Are you making a wager? What's the stakes and in what field(s) are we going to compete? According to when you entered the work force you'd have to be in your 70s, are you even still looking for work and don't feel you should have to compete with black people at all, is that what you're saying?'

Because that's what affirmative action has done for me, it's provided me with an opportunity to compete in fields in which I would otherwise be possibly excluded, not because I was unable to compete but due to my race and/or gender. Both of the fields I'm in presently are dominated by white males, some of whom are not so subtle about their dislike of my presence in their world.

So, what's your story? Who's depriving you of opportunities, how and in what fields? Inquiring minds want to know.
> Both of the fields I'm in presently are dominated by white males

Congratulations! When it comes time for layoffs, there is no way they will cut you, even if your performance is sub-par, for fear of a discrimination lawsuit. Enjoy your privilege! :)
LOL is this what you're teaching your "getting ready for college age" son? That no matter how well the non-whites do, always know you're better than them?
No. My son is doing wonderfully well in college. I don't need to teach him about equality; he's an adult now and very smart.

I have no issues at all with other races. I work with a whole bunch of exceptionally-talented people who just so happen to be very diverse in terms of race, gender, sexual preference, and politics. Many are not US citizens, but they are all here legally, and they are incredibly smart. I have deep friendships with a lot of my colleagues, and like and respect everyone I work with. I'd say that my work is probably much more diverse than the local population.

We have people who immigrated from Western Europe, Eastern Europe, Nigeria, Thailand, China, India, Nepal, Kenya, Egypt, etc. One of our senior VPs is from Palestine. Race never comes up, and everyone is always treated with respect.

None of my colleagues complain about racism or other forms of oppression. They all work hard, and as a result, they are compensated handsomely and have really enjoyable, if challenging, jobs.

They didn't need Affirmative Action to succeed, and they weren't even born here, and most had less than you as children. Why do you need Affirmative Action to succeed? It happens naturally, if you have some skills to offer and are willing to work hard.
 

NewsVine_Mariyam

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Okay, so how do you want to go about dismantling the system that is in place?
remove skin color and gender from all applications,, problem solved,,,

It's not in any applications. They tried a study where they mixed up the names on resumes. The "black names" got picked WAY less than the white sounding names. When they swapped the names around and put the white names on the black people's resumes, the white names got picked. It wasn't their skills or their "merit's". The HR staff were picking the applicants they thought were white.


> It's not in any applications.

It was on my son's college applications.

It was also on the US Census we filled out. We checked "other" and wrote in "US citizen." Unlike Senator Warner, we have not had DNA tests to determine if we are Native Americans or not.

You must see these check boxes occasionally as well.
You're not required to answer them, truthfully or otherwise.

> You're not required to answer them, truthfully or otherwise.

You are good at making things up.


13 U.S. Code § 221 - Refusal or neglect to answer questions; false answers

(a) Whoever, being over eighteen years of age, refuses or willfully neglects, when requested by the Secretary, or by any other authorized officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof acting under the instructions of the Secretary or authorized officer, to answer, to the best of his knowledge, any of the questions on any schedule submitted to him in connection with any census or survey provided for by subchapters I, II, IV, and V of chapter 5 of this title, applying to himself or to the family to which he belongs or is related, or to the farm or farms of which he or his family is the occupant, shall be fined not more than $100.

(b) Whoever, when answering questions described in subsection (a) of this section, and under the conditions or circumstances described in such subsection, willfully gives any answer that is false, shall be fined not more than $500.

(c) Notwithstanding any other provision of this title, no person shall be compelled to disclose information relative to his religious beliefs or to membership in a religious body.


Not really sure that applies to race anymore.
For example, the "Eve Out of Africa" genetic theory now says that actually everyone is Black, and whites are just a subset of Black.
Point being that race is not real actually, and is more of a cultural leftover that can't be scientifically defined.
Since it is not clear cut, then just about any way you want to check or leave the race boxes empty would have to be acceptable.
Race is real, it's an anthropological categorization of human beings however attributing negative and positive traits to the various races is something that the whites who founded the United States codified into law. This allowed them to create and maintain a legal position of authority based on the alleged superiority of the white race and subsequent perceived inferiority of the black race.

While the laws allowing racial discrimination may have gone away, the feelings and attitudes of many whites have not, the white supremacists beliefs, the open hostility, constantly denigrating black people as a whole, etc. This message is a perfect case in point.

So when I as a black person hear white racists talking about dismantling any of the legislation that was put into place in order to help curtail the racial discrimination that continued even after the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, of course I'm not going to think that's a good idea. There are far too many people who refuse to comply with existing laws so taking away any of them is only going to signal to them that it's okay to continue their hostilities towards non-whites, especially blacks.
 

Jim H - VA USA

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We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported


Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action


What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...
You'll fit in great here, getting everything exactly ass backwards is a popular stance around here.
Did your parents have any children that weren't mentally challenged?
People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.
> People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.

OldLady, you just said that hiring based upon race is not racist. Literally.

You don't fight racism by instituting racist policies.

Instead of an insult you deserve, I'll give you a compliment... Cute avatar. :)
Racism involves believing other groups are inferior to yours. It's not a racist policy to break centuries of bigotry by encouraging minorities get a chance.

you think minorities need your encouragement? I don’t know sounds awfully paternalistic
I'm not one who hires or selects students to my university. But some of them do, yeah.
> I'm not one who hires or selects students to my university. But some of them [minorities] do, yeah.

OldLady, that's just more racism from you. Some of every group of people requires encouragement to succeed.

You keep focusing on skin color, when you should be focused on character. Extra help should be based upon need, not DNA. Counting skin colors and lowering standards for people based upon ethnicity is inherently racist and has been illegal for over 55 years..
I agree if everyone were that fair minded, that would be right. Everyone is not that fair minded.
Everyone is not that fair minded. I agree but you are defending the unfairness on one side while vilifying it on the other side. That is the same as Affirmative Action. Equality means equal treatment. Giving preferential treatment based on ethnicity is RACISM and "preferential" is contrary to "equal."
Actually the agency created to enforce and monitor compliance of the work portion of the Civil Rights Act is the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. Emphasis on "Opportunity".

Some of you sound like you're afraid you can't compete on a level playing field.
Never had anything else--I entered the workforce in 1965. I have worked blue collar jobs, white collar jobs and military in my career. In EVERY one of those jobs I worked and fought side by side with every ethnic and gender group in the US. In not one of those jobs were the wages paid one cent different by job. What wasn't the same was the playing field. Every one of those people that I worked with enjoyed employment preferences that were not available to me. Sure that playing field. You seem to think that you can be a perpetual victim of ---- race, gender, whatever. What you really are is a racist bigot.
You had white male preference. It's the preference that has existed since the country started. There are no perpetual victims, just perpetual amnesia based delusions by whites, specifically right wing white males.


Black bigots get actual preferences by law.

Blacks get privileges while whitesandasians get discrimination.

When asked, we get phantom "white privilege" bs and hate hoaxes as evidence of racism.

The black bigot hates whites and Asians, practices bigotry and discrimination against whites and Asians, and we are to conclude that the "problem" is not from the side practicing bigotry and discrimination, but the actual victims who are framed by the hate hoaxes.

Im2 has likely been involved in dozens of hate hoaxes, and likely sucked the dicks of both Jussie Smollett and Michelle Obama.
We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported


Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action


What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...
You'll fit in great here, getting everything exactly ass backwards is a popular stance around here.
Did your parents have any children that weren't mentally challenged?
People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.
> People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.

OldLady, you just said that hiring based upon race is not racist. Literally.

You don't fight racism by instituting racist policies.

Instead of an insult you deserve, I'll give you a compliment... Cute avatar. :)


Look how she worded it. Those supporting discrimination are not racist - but they are bigots, because in the sick mind of the bigoted leftwing hypocrite, there is a difference between racism and bigotry. Racism implies looking down, and hence blacks and all the other bogus "victim" classes of the left cannot be racist...

EVEN AS THEY PRACTICE BIGOTRY AND DISCRIMINATION
We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported

Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action

What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...
What's wrong with a merit standard? White racists do not believe or do not want to believe that there are black people who are just as capable, intelligent, skilled, and educated as they are. There are also some who exceed them in those areas as well, yet they would NEVER find them meritorious enough to receive things that they've worked for and are entitled to, whether it's a good paying good, a prestigious job promotion, acceptance into an ivy league school, etc.

A case in point, read the ridiculous comments that the resident white racists of USMB have made about black people and women, even when qualified, not being "the best" candidate and then employee to pilot a commercial aircraft, even after it was pointed out to them that they have been doing so, just not is substantially large numbers for the last close to 75 years.

But since white racists also suffer from inferiority complexes and financial & social envy of successful blacks (because they cannot reconcile mentally how a black person could ever do better than they have) they attribute this "anomaly" to blacks allegedly being given advantages denied to them, affirmative action being their favorite pinata that they like to whack .

I am of the opinion that perhaps the true reason for them lagging behind is lack of critical thinking skills and abysmal reading comprehension skills. Perhaps you can assist by pointing out where in the text below ANYONE is given preference over ANYONE else, let alone over WHITES?

While the concept of affirmative action has existed in America since the 19th century, it first appeared in its current form in President Kennedy's Executive Order 10925 (1961): "The contractor will take affirmative action to ensure that applicants are employed, and that employees are treated during employment, without regard to their race, creed, color, or national origin."​
For federal contractors and subcontractors, affirmative action must be taken by covered employers to recruit and advance qualified minorities, women, persons with disabilities, and covered veterans. Affirmative actions include training programs, outreach efforts, and other positive steps. These procedures should be incorporated into the company's written personnel policies. Employers with written affirmative action programs must implement them, keep them on file and update them annually. Affirmative Action | U.S. Department of Labor
COMMENT: According to the department of labor, you are WRONG. Racist.
Yeah, you pulled one segment out of the entire page and ignored all of the rest. The Department of Labor is also where I obtained the text of the affirmative action EO I quoted, it's the same government agency:
Executive Order 11246, As Amended | U.S. Department of Labor

So where does it give preference to "unqualified blacks" over "qualified" whites? Depending upon your interpretation of the law, the whole point of the program is to increase the pool of qualified candidates that employers can select from and making sure that they include minorities as well as others. Do you have the same hostilities towards veterans and persons with disabilities? They cover the whole spectrum of races.

And when the government gives you money (contracts) then they get to specify the way you conduct the business you do for them including insisting that you comply with any and all applicable anti-discrimination laws, which you should be doing anyway. If you want to insist upon your right to be a raging racist then fine you can work for someone else.

And I'm sure you know this but just in case you or anyone else didn't, white women have benefited from affirmative action more than any other demographic according to the U.S. Department of Labor (same agency once again)
Findings
  • The study found that compliance reviews initiated against an establishment in the 1970s significantly increased the share of women and African Americans it employed as managers, not only in the 1970s but also through the 1980s and 1990s. A first compliance review in the 1970s increased the odds of white women in management by an estimated 34 percent, of African American women by 18 percent, and of African American men by 28 percent.
  • Compliance reviews initiated in the 1970s led to significantly greater increases in female and African American employment shares than did reviews conducted in the 1980s.
  • Larger numbers of lawsuits significantly increased employment shares for women and African Americans.
Try reading everything next time--This section (in the link that I gave you) essentially dictates that the workforce of particular sized companies must have workforces that reflect to demographic of an area. Here is the pertinent ppg.
Subpart B—Purpose and Contents of Affirmative Action Programs

return arrow Back to Top
§60-2.10 General purpose and contents of affirmative action programs.
(a) Purpose. (1) An affirmative action program is a management tool designed to ensure equal employment opportunity. A central premise underlying affirmative action is that, absent discrimination, over time a contractor's workforce, generally, will reflect the gender, racial and ethnic profile of the labor pools from which the contractor recruits and selects. Affirmative action programs contain a diagnostic component which includes a number of quantitative analyses designed to evaluate the composition of the workforce of the contractor and compare it to the composition of the relevant labor pools. Affirmative action programs also include action-oriented programs. If women and minorities are not being employed at a rate to be expected given their availability in the relevant labor pool, the contractor's affirmative action program includes specific practical steps designed to address this underutilization. Effective affirmative action programs also include internal auditing and reporting systems as a means of measuring the contractor's progress toward achieving the workforce that would be expected in the absence of discrimination.
I refer you back to the portion of one of my previous comment in which I mention subpar reading comprehension abilities. What they're saying is that the workforce should reflect the composition of the "relevent labor pool" "absent discrimination":

Subpart B—Purpose and Contents of Affirmative Action Programs

return arrow Back to Top
§60-2.10 General purpose and contents of affirmative action programs.
(a) Purpose. (1) An affirmative action program is a management tool designed to ensure equal employment opportunity. A central premise underlying affirmative action is that, ****absent discrimination****, over time a contractor's workforce, generally, will reflect the gender, racial and ethnic profile of the labor pools from which the contractor recruits and selects. Affirmative action programs contain a diagnostic component which includes a number of quantitative analyses designed to evaluate the composition of the workforce of the contractor and compare it to the composition of the relevant labor pools. Affirmative action programs also include action-oriented programs. If women and minorities are not being employed at a rate to be expected given their availability in the relevant labor pool, the contractor's affirmative action program includes specific practical steps designed to address this underutilization. Effective affirmative action programs also include internal auditing and reporting systems as a means of measuring the contractor's progress toward achieving the workforce that would be expected ****in the absence of discrimination****.
By your reckoning the NBA should be 87% white. You are a racist and cannot compete on a level playing field--if you could, you would not be adverse to repealing affirmative action, indeed I feel that all mention of gender and race should be removed from any official documentation. You become XYZ123 in anything official and let the chips fall where they may. I am open to that scenario--ARE YOU?
Oh is that why you're laughing like a hyena? Because you think I'm a racist "victim" who cannot compete without affirmative action? Are you making a wager? What's the stakes and in what field(s) are we going to compete? According to when you entered the work force you'd have to be in your 70s, are you even still looking for work and don't feel you should have to compete with black people at all, is that what you're saying?'

Because that's what affirmative action has done for me, it's provided me with an opportunity to compete in fields in which I would otherwise be possibly excluded, not because I was unable to compete but due to my race and/or gender. Both of the fields I'm in presently are dominated by white males, some of whom are not so subtle about their dislike of my presence in their world.

So, what's your story? Who's depriving you of opportunities, how and in what fields? Inquiring minds want to know.
> Both of the fields I'm in presently are dominated by white males

Congratulations! When it comes time for layoffs, there is no way they will cut you, even if your performance is sub-par, for fear of a discrimination lawsuit. Enjoy your privilege! :)
Well since I own the company, that's not much of a concern.

As far as my other gig, because we provide data upon request to the legal department we have a pretty good feel for the challenges that come up within the organization and I haven't seen much regarding discrimination lawsuits, not that I'm looking.

If I didn't any better I'd wonder if you don't perhaps resent the fact that I'm gainfully employed, for the moment :cool:
>Well since I own the company, that's not much of a concern.

That's great.

> If I didn't any better I'd wonder if you don't perhaps resent the fact that I'm gainfully employed, for the moment

All jobs are respectable.

You didn't answer my question about why you needed Affirmative Action to succeed.
 

NewsVine_Mariyam

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white males, some of whom are not so subtle about their dislike of my presence in their world.
Your disdain for white people is quite evident in your posts. You preach equality, but that is not what you live. Your hatred must make your world an unpleasant place to live. You have made not so subtle comments about my race as a whole while vilifying me and you don't know anything about me. You paint with an unjustly broad brush.
You are quite confused. I haven't been talking about "white people", I've talking about "white racists" Both may be white but they're not the same group of people.

And now you want to cry about "you don't know anything about me". What I do know about you is that the very first time you ever commented on something I posted, you were calling me names but I ignored that and continued to communicate with you cordially until it got to the point where it was apparent that my responses had nothing to do or no bearing on yours so I took the gloves off. I still haven't said anything horrible to you unless it hurts your feelings being lumped in with some of the other more rabid racists on the board.

I don't have hatred, it's exhausting to contain that kind of negative energy within one's being. I do have fire in my soul though and will fight for the rights of others, even if they are not like me. I don't care what race, what gender, their sexual orientation, national original, etc., only that someone is abusing them or violating their rights. That is the real reason I'm on this site because you all are providing me insight into the reasons for a lot of the dysfunction I encounter and that helps me find better ways to combat it.

The biggest reason I would be concerned about legislatively ending affirmative action is due to the retaliation I know will follow, I've seen it before. And because I feel that there is no need to do so because it is not this evil construct that you all have made it out to be.

So are you going to tell me what affirmative action has cost you? There are remedies if someone has truly done something wrong to you that they shouldn't have as long as the statute of limitations have not lapsed.
 

NewsVine_Mariyam

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We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported


Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action


What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...
You'll fit in great here, getting everything exactly ass backwards is a popular stance around here.
Did your parents have any children that weren't mentally challenged?
People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.
> People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.

OldLady, you just said that hiring based upon race is not racist. Literally.

You don't fight racism by instituting racist policies.

Instead of an insult you deserve, I'll give you a compliment... Cute avatar. :)
Racism involves believing other groups are inferior to yours. It's not a racist policy to break centuries of bigotry by encouraging minorities get a chance.

you think minorities need your encouragement? I don’t know sounds awfully paternalistic
I'm not one who hires or selects students to my university. But some of them do, yeah.
> I'm not one who hires or selects students to my university. But some of them [minorities] do, yeah.

OldLady, that's just more racism from you. Some of every group of people requires encouragement to succeed.

You keep focusing on skin color, when you should be focused on character. Extra help should be based upon need, not DNA. Counting skin colors and lowering standards for people based upon ethnicity is inherently racist and has been illegal for over 55 years..
I agree if everyone were that fair minded, that would be right. Everyone is not that fair minded.
Everyone is not that fair minded. I agree but you are defending the unfairness on one side while vilifying it on the other side. That is the same as Affirmative Action. Equality means equal treatment. Giving preferential treatment based on ethnicity is RACISM and "preferential" is contrary to "equal."
Actually the agency created to enforce and monitor compliance of the work portion of the Civil Rights Act is the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. Emphasis on "Opportunity".

Some of you sound like you're afraid you can't compete on a level playing field.
Never had anything else--I entered the workforce in 1965. I have worked blue collar jobs, white collar jobs and military in my career. In EVERY one of those jobs I worked and fought side by side with every ethnic and gender group in the US. In not one of those jobs were the wages paid one cent different by job. What wasn't the same was the playing field. Every one of those people that I worked with enjoyed employment preferences that were not available to me. Sure that playing field. You seem to think that you can be a perpetual victim of ---- race, gender, whatever. What you really are is a racist bigot.
You had white male preference. It's the preference that has existed since the country started. There are no perpetual victims, just perpetual amnesia based delusions by whites, specifically right wing white males.


Black bigots get actual preferences by law.

Blacks get privileges while whitesandasians get discrimination.

When asked, we get phantom "white privilege" bs and hate hoaxes as evidence of racism.

The black bigot hates whites and Asians, practices bigotry and discrimination against whites and Asians, and we are to conclude that the "problem" is not from the side practicing bigotry and discrimination, but the actual victims who are framed by the hate hoaxes.

Im2 has likely been involved in dozens of hate hoaxes, and likely sucked the dicks of both Jussie Smollett and Michelle Obama.
We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported


Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action


What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...
You'll fit in great here, getting everything exactly ass backwards is a popular stance around here.
Did your parents have any children that weren't mentally challenged?
People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.
> People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.

OldLady, you just said that hiring based upon race is not racist. Literally.

You don't fight racism by instituting racist policies.

Instead of an insult you deserve, I'll give you a compliment... Cute avatar. :)


Look how she worded it. Those supporting discrimination are not racist - but they are bigots, because in the sick mind of the bigoted leftwing hypocrite, there is a difference between racism and bigotry. Racism implies looking down, and hence blacks and all the other bogus "victim" classes of the left cannot be racist...

EVEN AS THEY PRACTICE BIGOTRY AND DISCRIMINATION
We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported

Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action

What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...
What's wrong with a merit standard? White racists do not believe or do not want to believe that there are black people who are just as capable, intelligent, skilled, and educated as they are. There are also some who exceed them in those areas as well, yet they would NEVER find them meritorious enough to receive things that they've worked for and are entitled to, whether it's a good paying good, a prestigious job promotion, acceptance into an ivy league school, etc.

A case in point, read the ridiculous comments that the resident white racists of USMB have made about black people and women, even when qualified, not being "the best" candidate and then employee to pilot a commercial aircraft, even after it was pointed out to them that they have been doing so, just not is substantially large numbers for the last close to 75 years.

But since white racists also suffer from inferiority complexes and financial & social envy of successful blacks (because they cannot reconcile mentally how a black person could ever do better than they have) they attribute this "anomaly" to blacks allegedly being given advantages denied to them, affirmative action being their favorite pinata that they like to whack .

I am of the opinion that perhaps the true reason for them lagging behind is lack of critical thinking skills and abysmal reading comprehension skills. Perhaps you can assist by pointing out where in the text below ANYONE is given preference over ANYONE else, let alone over WHITES?

While the concept of affirmative action has existed in America since the 19th century, it first appeared in its current form in President Kennedy's Executive Order 10925 (1961): "The contractor will take affirmative action to ensure that applicants are employed, and that employees are treated during employment, without regard to their race, creed, color, or national origin."​
For federal contractors and subcontractors, affirmative action must be taken by covered employers to recruit and advance qualified minorities, women, persons with disabilities, and covered veterans. Affirmative actions include training programs, outreach efforts, and other positive steps. These procedures should be incorporated into the company's written personnel policies. Employers with written affirmative action programs must implement them, keep them on file and update them annually. Affirmative Action | U.S. Department of Labor
COMMENT: According to the department of labor, you are WRONG. Racist.
Yeah, you pulled one segment out of the entire page and ignored all of the rest. The Department of Labor is also where I obtained the text of the affirmative action EO I quoted, it's the same government agency:
Executive Order 11246, As Amended | U.S. Department of Labor

So where does it give preference to "unqualified blacks" over "qualified" whites? Depending upon your interpretation of the law, the whole point of the program is to increase the pool of qualified candidates that employers can select from and making sure that they include minorities as well as others. Do you have the same hostilities towards veterans and persons with disabilities? They cover the whole spectrum of races.

And when the government gives you money (contracts) then they get to specify the way you conduct the business you do for them including insisting that you comply with any and all applicable anti-discrimination laws, which you should be doing anyway. If you want to insist upon your right to be a raging racist then fine you can work for someone else.

And I'm sure you know this but just in case you or anyone else didn't, white women have benefited from affirmative action more than any other demographic according to the U.S. Department of Labor (same agency once again)
Findings
  • The study found that compliance reviews initiated against an establishment in the 1970s significantly increased the share of women and African Americans it employed as managers, not only in the 1970s but also through the 1980s and 1990s. A first compliance review in the 1970s increased the odds of white women in management by an estimated 34 percent, of African American women by 18 percent, and of African American men by 28 percent.
  • Compliance reviews initiated in the 1970s led to significantly greater increases in female and African American employment shares than did reviews conducted in the 1980s.
  • Larger numbers of lawsuits significantly increased employment shares for women and African Americans.
Try reading everything next time--This section (in the link that I gave you) essentially dictates that the workforce of particular sized companies must have workforces that reflect to demographic of an area. Here is the pertinent ppg.
Subpart B—Purpose and Contents of Affirmative Action Programs

return arrow Back to Top
§60-2.10 General purpose and contents of affirmative action programs.
(a) Purpose. (1) An affirmative action program is a management tool designed to ensure equal employment opportunity. A central premise underlying affirmative action is that, absent discrimination, over time a contractor's workforce, generally, will reflect the gender, racial and ethnic profile of the labor pools from which the contractor recruits and selects. Affirmative action programs contain a diagnostic component which includes a number of quantitative analyses designed to evaluate the composition of the workforce of the contractor and compare it to the composition of the relevant labor pools. Affirmative action programs also include action-oriented programs. If women and minorities are not being employed at a rate to be expected given their availability in the relevant labor pool, the contractor's affirmative action program includes specific practical steps designed to address this underutilization. Effective affirmative action programs also include internal auditing and reporting systems as a means of measuring the contractor's progress toward achieving the workforce that would be expected in the absence of discrimination.
I refer you back to the portion of one of my previous comment in which I mention subpar reading comprehension abilities. What they're saying is that the workforce should reflect the composition of the "relevent labor pool" "absent discrimination":

Subpart B—Purpose and Contents of Affirmative Action Programs

return arrow Back to Top
§60-2.10 General purpose and contents of affirmative action programs.
(a) Purpose. (1) An affirmative action program is a management tool designed to ensure equal employment opportunity. A central premise underlying affirmative action is that, ****absent discrimination****, over time a contractor's workforce, generally, will reflect the gender, racial and ethnic profile of the labor pools from which the contractor recruits and selects. Affirmative action programs contain a diagnostic component which includes a number of quantitative analyses designed to evaluate the composition of the workforce of the contractor and compare it to the composition of the relevant labor pools. Affirmative action programs also include action-oriented programs. If women and minorities are not being employed at a rate to be expected given their availability in the relevant labor pool, the contractor's affirmative action program includes specific practical steps designed to address this underutilization. Effective affirmative action programs also include internal auditing and reporting systems as a means of measuring the contractor's progress toward achieving the workforce that would be expected ****in the absence of discrimination****.
By your reckoning the NBA should be 87% white. You are a racist and cannot compete on a level playing field--if you could, you would not be adverse to repealing affirmative action, indeed I feel that all mention of gender and race should be removed from any official documentation. You become XYZ123 in anything official and let the chips fall where they may. I am open to that scenario--ARE YOU?
Oh is that why you're laughing like a hyena? Because you think I'm a racist "victim" who cannot compete without affirmative action? Are you making a wager? What's the stakes and in what field(s) are we going to compete? According to when you entered the work force you'd have to be in your 70s, are you even still looking for work and don't feel you should have to compete with black people at all, is that what you're saying?'

Because that's what affirmative action has done for me, it's provided me with an opportunity to compete in fields in which I would otherwise be possibly excluded, not because I was unable to compete but due to my race and/or gender. Both of the fields I'm in presently are dominated by white males, some of whom are not so subtle about their dislike of my presence in their world.

So, what's your story? Who's depriving you of opportunities, how and in what fields? Inquiring minds want to know.
> Both of the fields I'm in presently are dominated by white males

Congratulations! When it comes time for layoffs, there is no way they will cut you, even if your performance is sub-par, for fear of a discrimination lawsuit. Enjoy your privilege! :)
LOL is this what you're teaching your "getting ready for college age" son? That no matter how well the non-whites do, always know you're better than them?
You have a serious self image problem. Do you honestly believe that people are judged on the color of their skin? Sounds like a racist bigot with an inferiority complex to me. Run along now.
Ohhh, having girfriend/boyfriend problems? Stop projecting your own insecurities on others.
 

NewsVine_Mariyam

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We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported


Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action


What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...
You'll fit in great here, getting everything exactly ass backwards is a popular stance around here.
Did your parents have any children that weren't mentally challenged?
People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.
> People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.

OldLady, you just said that hiring based upon race is not racist. Literally.

You don't fight racism by instituting racist policies.

Instead of an insult you deserve, I'll give you a compliment... Cute avatar. :)
Racism involves believing other groups are inferior to yours. It's not a racist policy to break centuries of bigotry by encouraging minorities get a chance.

you think minorities need your encouragement? I don’t know sounds awfully paternalistic
I'm not one who hires or selects students to my university. But some of them do, yeah.
> I'm not one who hires or selects students to my university. But some of them [minorities] do, yeah.

OldLady, that's just more racism from you. Some of every group of people requires encouragement to succeed.

You keep focusing on skin color, when you should be focused on character. Extra help should be based upon need, not DNA. Counting skin colors and lowering standards for people based upon ethnicity is inherently racist and has been illegal for over 55 years..
I agree if everyone were that fair minded, that would be right. Everyone is not that fair minded.
Everyone is not that fair minded. I agree but you are defending the unfairness on one side while vilifying it on the other side. That is the same as Affirmative Action. Equality means equal treatment. Giving preferential treatment based on ethnicity is RACISM and "preferential" is contrary to "equal."
Actually the agency created to enforce and monitor compliance of the work portion of the Civil Rights Act is the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. Emphasis on "Opportunity".

Some of you sound like you're afraid you can't compete on a level playing field.
Never had anything else--I entered the workforce in 1965. I have worked blue collar jobs, white collar jobs and military in my career. In EVERY one of those jobs I worked and fought side by side with every ethnic and gender group in the US. In not one of those jobs were the wages paid one cent different by job. What wasn't the same was the playing field. Every one of those people that I worked with enjoyed employment preferences that were not available to me. Sure that playing field. You seem to think that you can be a perpetual victim of ---- race, gender, whatever. What you really are is a racist bigot.
You had white male preference. It's the preference that has existed since the country started. There are no perpetual victims, just perpetual amnesia based delusions by whites, specifically right wing white males.


Black bigots get actual preferences by law.

Blacks get privileges while whitesandasians get discrimination.

When asked, we get phantom "white privilege" bs and hate hoaxes as evidence of racism.

The black bigot hates whites and Asians, practices bigotry and discrimination against whites and Asians, and we are to conclude that the "problem" is not from the side practicing bigotry and discrimination, but the actual victims who are framed by the hate hoaxes.

Im2 has likely been involved in dozens of hate hoaxes, and likely sucked the dicks of both Jussie Smollett and Michelle Obama.
We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported


Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action


What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...
You'll fit in great here, getting everything exactly ass backwards is a popular stance around here.
Did your parents have any children that weren't mentally challenged?
People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.
> People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.

OldLady, you just said that hiring based upon race is not racist. Literally.

You don't fight racism by instituting racist policies.

Instead of an insult you deserve, I'll give you a compliment... Cute avatar. :)


Look how she worded it. Those supporting discrimination are not racist - but they are bigots, because in the sick mind of the bigoted leftwing hypocrite, there is a difference between racism and bigotry. Racism implies looking down, and hence blacks and all the other bogus "victim" classes of the left cannot be racist...

EVEN AS THEY PRACTICE BIGOTRY AND DISCRIMINATION
We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported

Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action

What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...
What's wrong with a merit standard? White racists do not believe or do not want to believe that there are black people who are just as capable, intelligent, skilled, and educated as they are. There are also some who exceed them in those areas as well, yet they would NEVER find them meritorious enough to receive things that they've worked for and are entitled to, whether it's a good paying good, a prestigious job promotion, acceptance into an ivy league school, etc.

A case in point, read the ridiculous comments that the resident white racists of USMB have made about black people and women, even when qualified, not being "the best" candidate and then employee to pilot a commercial aircraft, even after it was pointed out to them that they have been doing so, just not is substantially large numbers for the last close to 75 years.

But since white racists also suffer from inferiority complexes and financial & social envy of successful blacks (because they cannot reconcile mentally how a black person could ever do better than they have) they attribute this "anomaly" to blacks allegedly being given advantages denied to them, affirmative action being their favorite pinata that they like to whack .

I am of the opinion that perhaps the true reason for them lagging behind is lack of critical thinking skills and abysmal reading comprehension skills. Perhaps you can assist by pointing out where in the text below ANYONE is given preference over ANYONE else, let alone over WHITES?

While the concept of affirmative action has existed in America since the 19th century, it first appeared in its current form in President Kennedy's Executive Order 10925 (1961): "The contractor will take affirmative action to ensure that applicants are employed, and that employees are treated during employment, without regard to their race, creed, color, or national origin."​
For federal contractors and subcontractors, affirmative action must be taken by covered employers to recruit and advance qualified minorities, women, persons with disabilities, and covered veterans. Affirmative actions include training programs, outreach efforts, and other positive steps. These procedures should be incorporated into the company's written personnel policies. Employers with written affirmative action programs must implement them, keep them on file and update them annually. Affirmative Action | U.S. Department of Labor
COMMENT: According to the department of labor, you are WRONG. Racist.
Yeah, you pulled one segment out of the entire page and ignored all of the rest. The Department of Labor is also where I obtained the text of the affirmative action EO I quoted, it's the same government agency:
Executive Order 11246, As Amended | U.S. Department of Labor

So where does it give preference to "unqualified blacks" over "qualified" whites? Depending upon your interpretation of the law, the whole point of the program is to increase the pool of qualified candidates that employers can select from and making sure that they include minorities as well as others. Do you have the same hostilities towards veterans and persons with disabilities? They cover the whole spectrum of races.

And when the government gives you money (contracts) then they get to specify the way you conduct the business you do for them including insisting that you comply with any and all applicable anti-discrimination laws, which you should be doing anyway. If you want to insist upon your right to be a raging racist then fine you can work for someone else.

And I'm sure you know this but just in case you or anyone else didn't, white women have benefited from affirmative action more than any other demographic according to the U.S. Department of Labor (same agency once again)
Findings
  • The study found that compliance reviews initiated against an establishment in the 1970s significantly increased the share of women and African Americans it employed as managers, not only in the 1970s but also through the 1980s and 1990s. A first compliance review in the 1970s increased the odds of white women in management by an estimated 34 percent, of African American women by 18 percent, and of African American men by 28 percent.
  • Compliance reviews initiated in the 1970s led to significantly greater increases in female and African American employment shares than did reviews conducted in the 1980s.
  • Larger numbers of lawsuits significantly increased employment shares for women and African Americans.
Try reading everything next time--This section (in the link that I gave you) essentially dictates that the workforce of particular sized companies must have workforces that reflect to demographic of an area. Here is the pertinent ppg.
Subpart B—Purpose and Contents of Affirmative Action Programs

return arrow Back to Top
§60-2.10 General purpose and contents of affirmative action programs.
(a) Purpose. (1) An affirmative action program is a management tool designed to ensure equal employment opportunity. A central premise underlying affirmative action is that, absent discrimination, over time a contractor's workforce, generally, will reflect the gender, racial and ethnic profile of the labor pools from which the contractor recruits and selects. Affirmative action programs contain a diagnostic component which includes a number of quantitative analyses designed to evaluate the composition of the workforce of the contractor and compare it to the composition of the relevant labor pools. Affirmative action programs also include action-oriented programs. If women and minorities are not being employed at a rate to be expected given their availability in the relevant labor pool, the contractor's affirmative action program includes specific practical steps designed to address this underutilization. Effective affirmative action programs also include internal auditing and reporting systems as a means of measuring the contractor's progress toward achieving the workforce that would be expected in the absence of discrimination.
I refer you back to the portion of one of my previous comment in which I mention subpar reading comprehension abilities. What they're saying is that the workforce should reflect the composition of the "relevent labor pool" "absent discrimination":

Subpart B—Purpose and Contents of Affirmative Action Programs

return arrow Back to Top
§60-2.10 General purpose and contents of affirmative action programs.
(a) Purpose. (1) An affirmative action program is a management tool designed to ensure equal employment opportunity. A central premise underlying affirmative action is that, ****absent discrimination****, over time a contractor's workforce, generally, will reflect the gender, racial and ethnic profile of the labor pools from which the contractor recruits and selects. Affirmative action programs contain a diagnostic component which includes a number of quantitative analyses designed to evaluate the composition of the workforce of the contractor and compare it to the composition of the relevant labor pools. Affirmative action programs also include action-oriented programs. If women and minorities are not being employed at a rate to be expected given their availability in the relevant labor pool, the contractor's affirmative action program includes specific practical steps designed to address this underutilization. Effective affirmative action programs also include internal auditing and reporting systems as a means of measuring the contractor's progress toward achieving the workforce that would be expected ****in the absence of discrimination****.
By your reckoning the NBA should be 87% white. You are a racist and cannot compete on a level playing field--if you could, you would not be adverse to repealing affirmative action, indeed I feel that all mention of gender and race should be removed from any official documentation. You become XYZ123 in anything official and let the chips fall where they may. I am open to that scenario--ARE YOU?
Oh is that why you're laughing like a hyena? Because you think I'm a racist "victim" who cannot compete without affirmative action? Are you making a wager? What's the stakes and in what field(s) are we going to compete? According to when you entered the work force you'd have to be in your 70s, are you even still looking for work and don't feel you should have to compete with black people at all, is that what you're saying?'

Because that's what affirmative action has done for me, it's provided me with an opportunity to compete in fields in which I would otherwise be possibly excluded, not because I was unable to compete but due to my race and/or gender. Both of the fields I'm in presently are dominated by white males, some of whom are not so subtle about their dislike of my presence in their world.

So, what's your story? Who's depriving you of opportunities, how and in what fields? Inquiring minds want to know.
> Both of the fields I'm in presently are dominated by white males

Congratulations! When it comes time for layoffs, there is no way they will cut you, even if your performance is sub-par, for fear of a discrimination lawsuit. Enjoy your privilege! :)
LOL is this what you're teaching your "getting ready for college age" son? That no matter how well the non-whites do, always know you're better than them?
No. My son is doing wonderfully well in college. I don't need to teach him about equality; he's an adult now and very smart.

I have no issues at all with other races. I work with a whole bunch of exceptionally-talented people who just so happen to be very diverse in terms of race, gender, sexual preference, and politics. Many are not US citizens, but they are all here legally, and they are incredibly smart. I have deep friendships with a lot of my colleagues, and like and respect everyone I work with. I'd say that my work is probably much more diverse than the local population.

We have people who immigrated from Western Europe, Eastern Europe, Nigeria, Thailand, China, India, Nepal, Kenya, Egypt, etc. One of our senior VPs is from Palestine. Race never comes up, and everyone is always treated with respect.

None of my colleagues complain about racism or other forms of oppression. They all work hard, and as a result, they are compensated handsomely and have really enjoyable, if challenging, jobs.

They didn't need Affirmative Action to succeed, and they weren't even born here, and most had less than you as children. Why do you need Affirmative Action to succeed? It happens naturally, if you have some skills to offer and are willing to work hard.
You're the only person saying I need Affirmative Action to succeed, in fact you've assumed that's the only way I've achieved anything in my life. Well the only person right here right now, God know that's a favorite theme amongst the white racists - affirmative action admission, affirmative action hire.

As for your work environment you've described, that's wonderful and race shouldn't come up. Yet you still can't keep from taking digs at me like I have no knowledge of such a world. Why is that?
 
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Concerned American

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The biggest reason I would be concerned about legislatively ending affirmative action is due to the retaliation I know will follow, I've seen it before. And because I feel that there is no need to do so because it is not this evil construct that you all have made it out to be.
What retaliation? BLM riots? If it is not an evil construct designed to advance black privilege then why are you so adamantly opposed to repealing it. I ask for nothing more than equality in America. Equality disappears every time a preferential law is passed. I do not understand why you have such an aversion to what you say you would like to see.
 

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We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported


Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action


What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...
You'll fit in great here, getting everything exactly ass backwards is a popular stance around here.
Did your parents have any children that weren't mentally challenged?
People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.
> People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.

OldLady, you just said that hiring based upon race is not racist. Literally.

You don't fight racism by instituting racist policies.

Instead of an insult you deserve, I'll give you a compliment... Cute avatar. :)
Racism involves believing other groups are inferior to yours. It's not a racist policy to break centuries of bigotry by encouraging minorities get a chance.

you think minorities need your encouragement? I don’t know sounds awfully paternalistic
I'm not one who hires or selects students to my university. But some of them do, yeah.
> I'm not one who hires or selects students to my university. But some of them [minorities] do, yeah.

OldLady, that's just more racism from you. Some of every group of people requires encouragement to succeed.

You keep focusing on skin color, when you should be focused on character. Extra help should be based upon need, not DNA. Counting skin colors and lowering standards for people based upon ethnicity is inherently racist and has been illegal for over 55 years..
I agree if everyone were that fair minded, that would be right. Everyone is not that fair minded.
Everyone is not that fair minded. I agree but you are defending the unfairness on one side while vilifying it on the other side. That is the same as Affirmative Action. Equality means equal treatment. Giving preferential treatment based on ethnicity is RACISM and "preferential" is contrary to "equal."
Actually the agency created to enforce and monitor compliance of the work portion of the Civil Rights Act is the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. Emphasis on "Opportunity".

Some of you sound like you're afraid you can't compete on a level playing field.
Never had anything else--I entered the workforce in 1965. I have worked blue collar jobs, white collar jobs and military in my career. In EVERY one of those jobs I worked and fought side by side with every ethnic and gender group in the US. In not one of those jobs were the wages paid one cent different by job. What wasn't the same was the playing field. Every one of those people that I worked with enjoyed employment preferences that were not available to me. Sure that playing field. You seem to think that you can be a perpetual victim of ---- race, gender, whatever. What you really are is a racist bigot.
You had white male preference. It's the preference that has existed since the country started. There are no perpetual victims, just perpetual amnesia based delusions by whites, specifically right wing white males.


Black bigots get actual preferences by law.

Blacks get privileges while whitesandasians get discrimination.

When asked, we get phantom "white privilege" bs and hate hoaxes as evidence of racism.

The black bigot hates whites and Asians, practices bigotry and discrimination against whites and Asians, and we are to conclude that the "problem" is not from the side practicing bigotry and discrimination, but the actual victims who are framed by the hate hoaxes.

Im2 has likely been involved in dozens of hate hoaxes, and likely sucked the dicks of both Jussie Smollett and Michelle Obama.
We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported


Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action


What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...
You'll fit in great here, getting everything exactly ass backwards is a popular stance around here.
Did your parents have any children that weren't mentally challenged?
People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.
> People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.

OldLady, you just said that hiring based upon race is not racist. Literally.

You don't fight racism by instituting racist policies.

Instead of an insult you deserve, I'll give you a compliment... Cute avatar. :)


Look how she worded it. Those supporting discrimination are not racist - but they are bigots, because in the sick mind of the bigoted leftwing hypocrite, there is a difference between racism and bigotry. Racism implies looking down, and hence blacks and all the other bogus "victim" classes of the left cannot be racist...

EVEN AS THEY PRACTICE BIGOTRY AND DISCRIMINATION
We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported

Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action

What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...
What's wrong with a merit standard? White racists do not believe or do not want to believe that there are black people who are just as capable, intelligent, skilled, and educated as they are. There are also some who exceed them in those areas as well, yet they would NEVER find them meritorious enough to receive things that they've worked for and are entitled to, whether it's a good paying good, a prestigious job promotion, acceptance into an ivy league school, etc.

A case in point, read the ridiculous comments that the resident white racists of USMB have made about black people and women, even when qualified, not being "the best" candidate and then employee to pilot a commercial aircraft, even after it was pointed out to them that they have been doing so, just not is substantially large numbers for the last close to 75 years.

But since white racists also suffer from inferiority complexes and financial & social envy of successful blacks (because they cannot reconcile mentally how a black person could ever do better than they have) they attribute this "anomaly" to blacks allegedly being given advantages denied to them, affirmative action being their favorite pinata that they like to whack .

I am of the opinion that perhaps the true reason for them lagging behind is lack of critical thinking skills and abysmal reading comprehension skills. Perhaps you can assist by pointing out where in the text below ANYONE is given preference over ANYONE else, let alone over WHITES?

While the concept of affirmative action has existed in America since the 19th century, it first appeared in its current form in President Kennedy's Executive Order 10925 (1961): "The contractor will take affirmative action to ensure that applicants are employed, and that employees are treated during employment, without regard to their race, creed, color, or national origin."​
For federal contractors and subcontractors, affirmative action must be taken by covered employers to recruit and advance qualified minorities, women, persons with disabilities, and covered veterans. Affirmative actions include training programs, outreach efforts, and other positive steps. These procedures should be incorporated into the company's written personnel policies. Employers with written affirmative action programs must implement them, keep them on file and update them annually. Affirmative Action | U.S. Department of Labor
COMMENT: According to the department of labor, you are WRONG. Racist.
Yeah, you pulled one segment out of the entire page and ignored all of the rest. The Department of Labor is also where I obtained the text of the affirmative action EO I quoted, it's the same government agency:
Executive Order 11246, As Amended | U.S. Department of Labor

So where does it give preference to "unqualified blacks" over "qualified" whites? Depending upon your interpretation of the law, the whole point of the program is to increase the pool of qualified candidates that employers can select from and making sure that they include minorities as well as others. Do you have the same hostilities towards veterans and persons with disabilities? They cover the whole spectrum of races.

And when the government gives you money (contracts) then they get to specify the way you conduct the business you do for them including insisting that you comply with any and all applicable anti-discrimination laws, which you should be doing anyway. If you want to insist upon your right to be a raging racist then fine you can work for someone else.

And I'm sure you know this but just in case you or anyone else didn't, white women have benefited from affirmative action more than any other demographic according to the U.S. Department of Labor (same agency once again)
Findings
  • The study found that compliance reviews initiated against an establishment in the 1970s significantly increased the share of women and African Americans it employed as managers, not only in the 1970s but also through the 1980s and 1990s. A first compliance review in the 1970s increased the odds of white women in management by an estimated 34 percent, of African American women by 18 percent, and of African American men by 28 percent.
  • Compliance reviews initiated in the 1970s led to significantly greater increases in female and African American employment shares than did reviews conducted in the 1980s.
  • Larger numbers of lawsuits significantly increased employment shares for women and African Americans.
Try reading everything next time--This section (in the link that I gave you) essentially dictates that the workforce of particular sized companies must have workforces that reflect to demographic of an area. Here is the pertinent ppg.
Subpart B—Purpose and Contents of Affirmative Action Programs

return arrow Back to Top
§60-2.10 General purpose and contents of affirmative action programs.
(a) Purpose. (1) An affirmative action program is a management tool designed to ensure equal employment opportunity. A central premise underlying affirmative action is that, absent discrimination, over time a contractor's workforce, generally, will reflect the gender, racial and ethnic profile of the labor pools from which the contractor recruits and selects. Affirmative action programs contain a diagnostic component which includes a number of quantitative analyses designed to evaluate the composition of the workforce of the contractor and compare it to the composition of the relevant labor pools. Affirmative action programs also include action-oriented programs. If women and minorities are not being employed at a rate to be expected given their availability in the relevant labor pool, the contractor's affirmative action program includes specific practical steps designed to address this underutilization. Effective affirmative action programs also include internal auditing and reporting systems as a means of measuring the contractor's progress toward achieving the workforce that would be expected in the absence of discrimination.
I refer you back to the portion of one of my previous comment in which I mention subpar reading comprehension abilities. What they're saying is that the workforce should reflect the composition of the "relevent labor pool" "absent discrimination":

Subpart B—Purpose and Contents of Affirmative Action Programs

return arrow Back to Top
§60-2.10 General purpose and contents of affirmative action programs.
(a) Purpose. (1) An affirmative action program is a management tool designed to ensure equal employment opportunity. A central premise underlying affirmative action is that, ****absent discrimination****, over time a contractor's workforce, generally, will reflect the gender, racial and ethnic profile of the labor pools from which the contractor recruits and selects. Affirmative action programs contain a diagnostic component which includes a number of quantitative analyses designed to evaluate the composition of the workforce of the contractor and compare it to the composition of the relevant labor pools. Affirmative action programs also include action-oriented programs. If women and minorities are not being employed at a rate to be expected given their availability in the relevant labor pool, the contractor's affirmative action program includes specific practical steps designed to address this underutilization. Effective affirmative action programs also include internal auditing and reporting systems as a means of measuring the contractor's progress toward achieving the workforce that would be expected ****in the absence of discrimination****.
By your reckoning the NBA should be 87% white. You are a racist and cannot compete on a level playing field--if you could, you would not be adverse to repealing affirmative action, indeed I feel that all mention of gender and race should be removed from any official documentation. You become XYZ123 in anything official and let the chips fall where they may. I am open to that scenario--ARE YOU?
Oh is that why you're laughing like a hyena? Because you think I'm a racist "victim" who cannot compete without affirmative action? Are you making a wager? What's the stakes and in what field(s) are we going to compete? According to when you entered the work force you'd have to be in your 70s, are you even still looking for work and don't feel you should have to compete with black people at all, is that what you're saying?'

Because that's what affirmative action has done for me, it's provided me with an opportunity to compete in fields in which I would otherwise be possibly excluded, not because I was unable to compete but due to my race and/or gender. Both of the fields I'm in presently are dominated by white males, some of whom are not so subtle about their dislike of my presence in their world.

So, what's your story? Who's depriving you of opportunities, how and in what fields? Inquiring minds want to know.
> Both of the fields I'm in presently are dominated by white males

Congratulations! When it comes time for layoffs, there is no way they will cut you, even if your performance is sub-par, for fear of a discrimination lawsuit. Enjoy your privilege! :)
Well since I own the company, that's not much of a concern.

As far as my other gig, because we provide data upon request to the legal department we have a pretty good feel for the challenges that come up within the organization and I haven't seen much regarding discrimination lawsuits, not that I'm looking.

If I didn't any better I'd wonder if you don't perhaps resent the fact that I'm gainfully employed, for the moment :cool:
>Well since I own the company, that's not much of a concern.

That's great.

> If I didn't any better I'd wonder if you don't perhaps resent the fact that I'm gainfully employed, for the moment

All jobs are respectable.

You didn't answer my question about why you needed Affirmative Action to succeed.
Again, you're the one saying I needed. Can you prove that I only succeeded due to affirmative action?
 
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NewsVine_Mariyam

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The biggest reason I would be concerned about legislatively ending affirmative action is due to the retaliation I know will follow, I've seen it before. And because I feel that there is no need to do so because it is not this evil construct that you all have made it out to be.
What retaliation? BLM riots? If it is not an evil construct designed to advance black privilege then why are you so adamantly opposed to repealing it. I ask for nothing more than equality in America. Equality disappears every time a preferential law is passed. I do not understand why you have such an aversion to what you say you would like to see.
If you will tell me how affirmative action has harmed you then I'd more willing to explain the retaliation that I've seen in the past.
 
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Concerned American

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We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported


Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action


What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...
You'll fit in great here, getting everything exactly ass backwards is a popular stance around here.
Did your parents have any children that weren't mentally challenged?
People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.
> People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.

OldLady, you just said that hiring based upon race is not racist. Literally.

You don't fight racism by instituting racist policies.

Instead of an insult you deserve, I'll give you a compliment... Cute avatar. :)
Racism involves believing other groups are inferior to yours. It's not a racist policy to break centuries of bigotry by encouraging minorities get a chance.

you think minorities need your encouragement? I don’t know sounds awfully paternalistic
I'm not one who hires or selects students to my university. But some of them do, yeah.
> I'm not one who hires or selects students to my university. But some of them [minorities] do, yeah.

OldLady, that's just more racism from you. Some of every group of people requires encouragement to succeed.

You keep focusing on skin color, when you should be focused on character. Extra help should be based upon need, not DNA. Counting skin colors and lowering standards for people based upon ethnicity is inherently racist and has been illegal for over 55 years..
I agree if everyone were that fair minded, that would be right. Everyone is not that fair minded.
Everyone is not that fair minded. I agree but you are defending the unfairness on one side while vilifying it on the other side. That is the same as Affirmative Action. Equality means equal treatment. Giving preferential treatment based on ethnicity is RACISM and "preferential" is contrary to "equal."
Actually the agency created to enforce and monitor compliance of the work portion of the Civil Rights Act is the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. Emphasis on "Opportunity".

Some of you sound like you're afraid you can't compete on a level playing field.
Never had anything else--I entered the workforce in 1965. I have worked blue collar jobs, white collar jobs and military in my career. In EVERY one of those jobs I worked and fought side by side with every ethnic and gender group in the US. In not one of those jobs were the wages paid one cent different by job. What wasn't the same was the playing field. Every one of those people that I worked with enjoyed employment preferences that were not available to me. Sure that playing field. You seem to think that you can be a perpetual victim of ---- race, gender, whatever. What you really are is a racist bigot.
You had white male preference. It's the preference that has existed since the country started. There are no perpetual victims, just perpetual amnesia based delusions by whites, specifically right wing white males.


Black bigots get actual preferences by law.

Blacks get privileges while whitesandasians get discrimination.

When asked, we get phantom "white privilege" bs and hate hoaxes as evidence of racism.

The black bigot hates whites and Asians, practices bigotry and discrimination against whites and Asians, and we are to conclude that the "problem" is not from the side practicing bigotry and discrimination, but the actual victims who are framed by the hate hoaxes.

Im2 has likely been involved in dozens of hate hoaxes, and likely sucked the dicks of both Jussie Smollett and Michelle Obama.
We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported


Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action


What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...
You'll fit in great here, getting everything exactly ass backwards is a popular stance around here.
Did your parents have any children that weren't mentally challenged?
People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.
> People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.

OldLady, you just said that hiring based upon race is not racist. Literally.

You don't fight racism by instituting racist policies.

Instead of an insult you deserve, I'll give you a compliment... Cute avatar. :)


Look how she worded it. Those supporting discrimination are not racist - but they are bigots, because in the sick mind of the bigoted leftwing hypocrite, there is a difference between racism and bigotry. Racism implies looking down, and hence blacks and all the other bogus "victim" classes of the left cannot be racist...

EVEN AS THEY PRACTICE BIGOTRY AND DISCRIMINATION
We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported

Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action

What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...
What's wrong with a merit standard? White racists do not believe or do not want to believe that there are black people who are just as capable, intelligent, skilled, and educated as they are. There are also some who exceed them in those areas as well, yet they would NEVER find them meritorious enough to receive things that they've worked for and are entitled to, whether it's a good paying good, a prestigious job promotion, acceptance into an ivy league school, etc.

A case in point, read the ridiculous comments that the resident white racists of USMB have made about black people and women, even when qualified, not being "the best" candidate and then employee to pilot a commercial aircraft, even after it was pointed out to them that they have been doing so, just not is substantially large numbers for the last close to 75 years.

But since white racists also suffer from inferiority complexes and financial & social envy of successful blacks (because they cannot reconcile mentally how a black person could ever do better than they have) they attribute this "anomaly" to blacks allegedly being given advantages denied to them, affirmative action being their favorite pinata that they like to whack .

I am of the opinion that perhaps the true reason for them lagging behind is lack of critical thinking skills and abysmal reading comprehension skills. Perhaps you can assist by pointing out where in the text below ANYONE is given preference over ANYONE else, let alone over WHITES?

While the concept of affirmative action has existed in America since the 19th century, it first appeared in its current form in President Kennedy's Executive Order 10925 (1961): "The contractor will take affirmative action to ensure that applicants are employed, and that employees are treated during employment, without regard to their race, creed, color, or national origin."​
For federal contractors and subcontractors, affirmative action must be taken by covered employers to recruit and advance qualified minorities, women, persons with disabilities, and covered veterans. Affirmative actions include training programs, outreach efforts, and other positive steps. These procedures should be incorporated into the company's written personnel policies. Employers with written affirmative action programs must implement them, keep them on file and update them annually. Affirmative Action | U.S. Department of Labor
COMMENT: According to the department of labor, you are WRONG. Racist.
Yeah, you pulled one segment out of the entire page and ignored all of the rest. The Department of Labor is also where I obtained the text of the affirmative action EO I quoted, it's the same government agency:
Executive Order 11246, As Amended | U.S. Department of Labor

So where does it give preference to "unqualified blacks" over "qualified" whites? Depending upon your interpretation of the law, the whole point of the program is to increase the pool of qualified candidates that employers can select from and making sure that they include minorities as well as others. Do you have the same hostilities towards veterans and persons with disabilities? They cover the whole spectrum of races.

And when the government gives you money (contracts) then they get to specify the way you conduct the business you do for them including insisting that you comply with any and all applicable anti-discrimination laws, which you should be doing anyway. If you want to insist upon your right to be a raging racist then fine you can work for someone else.

And I'm sure you know this but just in case you or anyone else didn't, white women have benefited from affirmative action more than any other demographic according to the U.S. Department of Labor (same agency once again)
Findings
  • The study found that compliance reviews initiated against an establishment in the 1970s significantly increased the share of women and African Americans it employed as managers, not only in the 1970s but also through the 1980s and 1990s. A first compliance review in the 1970s increased the odds of white women in management by an estimated 34 percent, of African American women by 18 percent, and of African American men by 28 percent.
  • Compliance reviews initiated in the 1970s led to significantly greater increases in female and African American employment shares than did reviews conducted in the 1980s.
  • Larger numbers of lawsuits significantly increased employment shares for women and African Americans.
Try reading everything next time--This section (in the link that I gave you) essentially dictates that the workforce of particular sized companies must have workforces that reflect to demographic of an area. Here is the pertinent ppg.
Subpart B—Purpose and Contents of Affirmative Action Programs

return arrow Back to Top
§60-2.10 General purpose and contents of affirmative action programs.
(a) Purpose. (1) An affirmative action program is a management tool designed to ensure equal employment opportunity. A central premise underlying affirmative action is that, absent discrimination, over time a contractor's workforce, generally, will reflect the gender, racial and ethnic profile of the labor pools from which the contractor recruits and selects. Affirmative action programs contain a diagnostic component which includes a number of quantitative analyses designed to evaluate the composition of the workforce of the contractor and compare it to the composition of the relevant labor pools. Affirmative action programs also include action-oriented programs. If women and minorities are not being employed at a rate to be expected given their availability in the relevant labor pool, the contractor's affirmative action program includes specific practical steps designed to address this underutilization. Effective affirmative action programs also include internal auditing and reporting systems as a means of measuring the contractor's progress toward achieving the workforce that would be expected in the absence of discrimination.
I refer you back to the portion of one of my previous comment in which I mention subpar reading comprehension abilities. What they're saying is that the workforce should reflect the composition of the "relevent labor pool" "absent discrimination":

Subpart B—Purpose and Contents of Affirmative Action Programs

return arrow Back to Top
§60-2.10 General purpose and contents of affirmative action programs.
(a) Purpose. (1) An affirmative action program is a management tool designed to ensure equal employment opportunity. A central premise underlying affirmative action is that, ****absent discrimination****, over time a contractor's workforce, generally, will reflect the gender, racial and ethnic profile of the labor pools from which the contractor recruits and selects. Affirmative action programs contain a diagnostic component which includes a number of quantitative analyses designed to evaluate the composition of the workforce of the contractor and compare it to the composition of the relevant labor pools. Affirmative action programs also include action-oriented programs. If women and minorities are not being employed at a rate to be expected given their availability in the relevant labor pool, the contractor's affirmative action program includes specific practical steps designed to address this underutilization. Effective affirmative action programs also include internal auditing and reporting systems as a means of measuring the contractor's progress toward achieving the workforce that would be expected ****in the absence of discrimination****.
By your reckoning the NBA should be 87% white. You are a racist and cannot compete on a level playing field--if you could, you would not be adverse to repealing affirmative action, indeed I feel that all mention of gender and race should be removed from any official documentation. You become XYZ123 in anything official and let the chips fall where they may. I am open to that scenario--ARE YOU?
Oh is that why you're laughing like a hyena? Because you think I'm a racist "victim" who cannot compete without affirmative action? Are you making a wager? What's the stakes and in what field(s) are we going to compete? According to when you entered the work force you'd have to be in your 70s, are you even still looking for work and don't feel you should have to compete with black people at all, is that what you're saying?'

Because that's what affirmative action has done for me, it's provided me with an opportunity to compete in fields in which I would otherwise be possibly excluded, not because I was unable to compete but due to my race and/or gender. Both of the fields I'm in presently are dominated by white males, some of whom are not so subtle about their dislike of my presence in their world.

So, what's your story? Who's depriving you of opportunities, how and in what fields? Inquiring minds want to know.
> Both of the fields I'm in presently are dominated by white males

Congratulations! When it comes time for layoffs, there is no way they will cut you, even if your performance is sub-par, for fear of a discrimination lawsuit. Enjoy your privilege! :)
LOL is this what you're teaching your "getting ready for college age" son? That no matter how well the non-whites do, always know you're better than them?
No. My son is doing wonderfully well in college. I don't need to teach him about equality; he's an adult now and very smart.

I have no issues at all with other races. I work with a whole bunch of exceptionally-talented people who just so happen to be very diverse in terms of race, gender, sexual preference, and politics. Many are not US citizens, but they are all here legally, and they are incredibly smart. I have deep friendships with a lot of my colleagues, and like and respect everyone I work with. I'd say that my work is probably much more diverse than the local population.

We have people who immigrated from Western Europe, Eastern Europe, Nigeria, Thailand, China, India, Nepal, Kenya, Egypt, etc. One of our senior VPs is from Palestine. Race never comes up, and everyone is always treated with respect.

None of my colleagues complain about racism or other forms of oppression. They all work hard, and as a result, they are compensated handsomely and have really enjoyable, if challenging, jobs.

They didn't need Affirmative Action to succeed, and they weren't even born here, and most had less than you as children. Why do you need Affirmative Action to succeed? It happens naturally, if you have some skills to offer and are willing to work hard.
You're the only person saying I need Affirmative Action to succeed, in fact you've assumed that's the only way I've achieved anything in my life. Well the only person right here right now, God know that's a favorite theme amongst the white racists - affirmative action admission, affirmative action hire.

As for your work environment you've described, that's wonderful and race shouldn't come up. Yet you still can't keep from taking digs at me like I have no knowledge of such a world. Why is that?
Read your posts on this thread.
We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported


Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action


What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...
You'll fit in great here, getting everything exactly ass backwards is a popular stance around here.
Did your parents have any children that weren't mentally challenged?
People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.
> People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.

OldLady, you just said that hiring based upon race is not racist. Literally.

You don't fight racism by instituting racist policies.

Instead of an insult you deserve, I'll give you a compliment... Cute avatar. :)
Racism involves believing other groups are inferior to yours. It's not a racist policy to break centuries of bigotry by encouraging minorities get a chance.

you think minorities need your encouragement? I don’t know sounds awfully paternalistic
I'm not one who hires or selects students to my university. But some of them do, yeah.
> I'm not one who hires or selects students to my university. But some of them [minorities] do, yeah.

OldLady, that's just more racism from you. Some of every group of people requires encouragement to succeed.

You keep focusing on skin color, when you should be focused on character. Extra help should be based upon need, not DNA. Counting skin colors and lowering standards for people based upon ethnicity is inherently racist and has been illegal for over 55 years..
I agree if everyone were that fair minded, that would be right. Everyone is not that fair minded.
Everyone is not that fair minded. I agree but you are defending the unfairness on one side while vilifying it on the other side. That is the same as Affirmative Action. Equality means equal treatment. Giving preferential treatment based on ethnicity is RACISM and "preferential" is contrary to "equal."
Actually the agency created to enforce and monitor compliance of the work portion of the Civil Rights Act is the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. Emphasis on "Opportunity".

Some of you sound like you're afraid you can't compete on a level playing field.
Never had anything else--I entered the workforce in 1965. I have worked blue collar jobs, white collar jobs and military in my career. In EVERY one of those jobs I worked and fought side by side with every ethnic and gender group in the US. In not one of those jobs were the wages paid one cent different by job. What wasn't the same was the playing field. Every one of those people that I worked with enjoyed employment preferences that were not available to me. Sure that playing field. You seem to think that you can be a perpetual victim of ---- race, gender, whatever. What you really are is a racist bigot.
You had white male preference. It's the preference that has existed since the country started. There are no perpetual victims, just perpetual amnesia based delusions by whites, specifically right wing white males.


Black bigots get actual preferences by law.

Blacks get privileges while whitesandasians get discrimination.

When asked, we get phantom "white privilege" bs and hate hoaxes as evidence of racism.

The black bigot hates whites and Asians, practices bigotry and discrimination against whites and Asians, and we are to conclude that the "problem" is not from the side practicing bigotry and discrimination, but the actual victims who are framed by the hate hoaxes.

Im2 has likely been involved in dozens of hate hoaxes, and likely sucked the dicks of both Jussie Smollett and Michelle Obama.
We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported


Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action


What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...
You'll fit in great here, getting everything exactly ass backwards is a popular stance around here.
Did your parents have any children that weren't mentally challenged?
People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.
> People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.

OldLady, you just said that hiring based upon race is not racist. Literally.

You don't fight racism by instituting racist policies.

Instead of an insult you deserve, I'll give you a compliment... Cute avatar. :)


Look how she worded it. Those supporting discrimination are not racist - but they are bigots, because in the sick mind of the bigoted leftwing hypocrite, there is a difference between racism and bigotry. Racism implies looking down, and hence blacks and all the other bogus "victim" classes of the left cannot be racist...

EVEN AS THEY PRACTICE BIGOTRY AND DISCRIMINATION
We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported

Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action

What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...
What's wrong with a merit standard? White racists do not believe or do not want to believe that there are black people who are just as capable, intelligent, skilled, and educated as they are. There are also some who exceed them in those areas as well, yet they would NEVER find them meritorious enough to receive things that they've worked for and are entitled to, whether it's a good paying good, a prestigious job promotion, acceptance into an ivy league school, etc.

A case in point, read the ridiculous comments that the resident white racists of USMB have made about black people and women, even when qualified, not being "the best" candidate and then employee to pilot a commercial aircraft, even after it was pointed out to them that they have been doing so, just not is substantially large numbers for the last close to 75 years.

But since white racists also suffer from inferiority complexes and financial & social envy of successful blacks (because they cannot reconcile mentally how a black person could ever do better than they have) they attribute this "anomaly" to blacks allegedly being given advantages denied to them, affirmative action being their favorite pinata that they like to whack .

I am of the opinion that perhaps the true reason for them lagging behind is lack of critical thinking skills and abysmal reading comprehension skills. Perhaps you can assist by pointing out where in the text below ANYONE is given preference over ANYONE else, let alone over WHITES?

While the concept of affirmative action has existed in America since the 19th century, it first appeared in its current form in President Kennedy's Executive Order 10925 (1961): "The contractor will take affirmative action to ensure that applicants are employed, and that employees are treated during employment, without regard to their race, creed, color, or national origin."​
For federal contractors and subcontractors, affirmative action must be taken by covered employers to recruit and advance qualified minorities, women, persons with disabilities, and covered veterans. Affirmative actions include training programs, outreach efforts, and other positive steps. These procedures should be incorporated into the company's written personnel policies. Employers with written affirmative action programs must implement them, keep them on file and update them annually. Affirmative Action | U.S. Department of Labor
COMMENT: According to the department of labor, you are WRONG. Racist.
Yeah, you pulled one segment out of the entire page and ignored all of the rest. The Department of Labor is also where I obtained the text of the affirmative action EO I quoted, it's the same government agency:
Executive Order 11246, As Amended | U.S. Department of Labor

So where does it give preference to "unqualified blacks" over "qualified" whites? Depending upon your interpretation of the law, the whole point of the program is to increase the pool of qualified candidates that employers can select from and making sure that they include minorities as well as others. Do you have the same hostilities towards veterans and persons with disabilities? They cover the whole spectrum of races.

And when the government gives you money (contracts) then they get to specify the way you conduct the business you do for them including insisting that you comply with any and all applicable anti-discrimination laws, which you should be doing anyway. If you want to insist upon your right to be a raging racist then fine you can work for someone else.

And I'm sure you know this but just in case you or anyone else didn't, white women have benefited from affirmative action more than any other demographic according to the U.S. Department of Labor (same agency once again)
Findings
  • The study found that compliance reviews initiated against an establishment in the 1970s significantly increased the share of women and African Americans it employed as managers, not only in the 1970s but also through the 1980s and 1990s. A first compliance review in the 1970s increased the odds of white women in management by an estimated 34 percent, of African American women by 18 percent, and of African American men by 28 percent.
  • Compliance reviews initiated in the 1970s led to significantly greater increases in female and African American employment shares than did reviews conducted in the 1980s.
  • Larger numbers of lawsuits significantly increased employment shares for women and African Americans.
Try reading everything next time--This section (in the link that I gave you) essentially dictates that the workforce of particular sized companies must have workforces that reflect to demographic of an area. Here is the pertinent ppg.
Subpart B—Purpose and Contents of Affirmative Action Programs

return arrow Back to Top
§60-2.10 General purpose and contents of affirmative action programs.
(a) Purpose. (1) An affirmative action program is a management tool designed to ensure equal employment opportunity. A central premise underlying affirmative action is that, absent discrimination, over time a contractor's workforce, generally, will reflect the gender, racial and ethnic profile of the labor pools from which the contractor recruits and selects. Affirmative action programs contain a diagnostic component which includes a number of quantitative analyses designed to evaluate the composition of the workforce of the contractor and compare it to the composition of the relevant labor pools. Affirmative action programs also include action-oriented programs. If women and minorities are not being employed at a rate to be expected given their availability in the relevant labor pool, the contractor's affirmative action program includes specific practical steps designed to address this underutilization. Effective affirmative action programs also include internal auditing and reporting systems as a means of measuring the contractor's progress toward achieving the workforce that would be expected in the absence of discrimination.
I refer you back to the portion of one of my previous comment in which I mention subpar reading comprehension abilities. What they're saying is that the workforce should reflect the composition of the "relevent labor pool" "absent discrimination":

Subpart B—Purpose and Contents of Affirmative Action Programs

return arrow Back to Top
§60-2.10 General purpose and contents of affirmative action programs.
(a) Purpose. (1) An affirmative action program is a management tool designed to ensure equal employment opportunity. A central premise underlying affirmative action is that, ****absent discrimination****, over time a contractor's workforce, generally, will reflect the gender, racial and ethnic profile of the labor pools from which the contractor recruits and selects. Affirmative action programs contain a diagnostic component which includes a number of quantitative analyses designed to evaluate the composition of the workforce of the contractor and compare it to the composition of the relevant labor pools. Affirmative action programs also include action-oriented programs. If women and minorities are not being employed at a rate to be expected given their availability in the relevant labor pool, the contractor's affirmative action program includes specific practical steps designed to address this underutilization. Effective affirmative action programs also include internal auditing and reporting systems as a means of measuring the contractor's progress toward achieving the workforce that would be expected ****in the absence of discrimination****.
By your reckoning the NBA should be 87% white. You are a racist and cannot compete on a level playing field--if you could, you would not be adverse to repealing affirmative action, indeed I feel that all mention of gender and race should be removed from any official documentation. You become XYZ123 in anything official and let the chips fall where they may. I am open to that scenario--ARE YOU?
Oh is that why you're laughing like a hyena? Because you think I'm a racist "victim" who cannot compete without affirmative action? Are you making a wager? What's the stakes and in what field(s) are we going to compete? According to when you entered the work force you'd have to be in your 70s, are you even still looking for work and don't feel you should have to compete with black people at all, is that what you're saying?'

Because that's what affirmative action has done for me, it's provided me with an opportunity to compete in fields in which I would otherwise be possibly excluded, not because I was unable to compete but due to my race and/or gender. Both of the fields I'm in presently are dominated by white males, some of whom are not so subtle about their dislike of my presence in their world.

So, what's your story? Who's depriving you of opportunities, how and in what fields? Inquiring minds want to know.
> Both of the fields I'm in presently are dominated by white males

Congratulations! When it comes time for layoffs, there is no way they will cut you, even if your performance is sub-par, for fear of a discrimination lawsuit. Enjoy your privilege! :)
LOL is this what you're teaching your "getting ready for college age" son? That no matter how well the non-whites do, always know you're better than them?
You have a serious self image problem. Do you honestly believe that people are judged on the color of their skin? Sounds like a racist bigot with an inferiority complex to me. Run along now.
Ohhh, having girfriend/boyfriend problems? Stop projecting your own insecurities on others.
You have tried to convince me that you can compete and that is what you got out of two days of trolling--you are as demented as the illegitimate resident of the WH. Tell me again how you don't disparage people on this thread and then go back and read your posts. You are a hypocritical troll playing on black privilege and I've no more time for you idiocy.
 

Concerned American

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The biggest reason I would be concerned about legislatively ending affirmative action is due to the retaliation I know will follow, I've seen it before. And because I feel that there is no need to do so because it is not this evil construct that you all have made it out to be.
What retaliation? BLM riots? If it is not an evil construct designed to advance black privilege then why are you so adamantly opposed to repealing it. I ask for nothing more than equality in America. Equality disappears every time a preferential law is passed. I do not understand why you have such an aversion to what you say you would like to see.
If you will tell me how affirmative action has harmed you then I'd more willing to explain the retaliation that I've seen in the past.
I told you in about the third post that I am not complaining about being harmed by AA. I have a problem with hypocrites playing on race, claiming to be victims. Please keep up. You don't want equality--you want preference.
 

NewsVine_Mariyam

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We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported


Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action


What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...
You'll fit in great here, getting everything exactly ass backwards is a popular stance around here.
Did your parents have any children that weren't mentally challenged?
People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.
> People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.

OldLady, you just said that hiring based upon race is not racist. Literally.

You don't fight racism by instituting racist policies.

Instead of an insult you deserve, I'll give you a compliment... Cute avatar. :)
Racism involves believing other groups are inferior to yours. It's not a racist policy to break centuries of bigotry by encouraging minorities get a chance.

you think minorities need your encouragement? I don’t know sounds awfully paternalistic
I'm not one who hires or selects students to my university. But some of them do, yeah.
> I'm not one who hires or selects students to my university. But some of them [minorities] do, yeah.

OldLady, that's just more racism from you. Some of every group of people requires encouragement to succeed.

You keep focusing on skin color, when you should be focused on character. Extra help should be based upon need, not DNA. Counting skin colors and lowering standards for people based upon ethnicity is inherently racist and has been illegal for over 55 years..
I agree if everyone were that fair minded, that would be right. Everyone is not that fair minded.
Everyone is not that fair minded. I agree but you are defending the unfairness on one side while vilifying it on the other side. That is the same as Affirmative Action. Equality means equal treatment. Giving preferential treatment based on ethnicity is RACISM and "preferential" is contrary to "equal."
Actually the agency created to enforce and monitor compliance of the work portion of the Civil Rights Act is the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. Emphasis on "Opportunity".

Some of you sound like you're afraid you can't compete on a level playing field.
Never had anything else--I entered the workforce in 1965. I have worked blue collar jobs, white collar jobs and military in my career. In EVERY one of those jobs I worked and fought side by side with every ethnic and gender group in the US. In not one of those jobs were the wages paid one cent different by job. What wasn't the same was the playing field. Every one of those people that I worked with enjoyed employment preferences that were not available to me. Sure that playing field. You seem to think that you can be a perpetual victim of ---- race, gender, whatever. What you really are is a racist bigot.
You had white male preference. It's the preference that has existed since the country started. There are no perpetual victims, just perpetual amnesia based delusions by whites, specifically right wing white males.


Black bigots get actual preferences by law.

Blacks get privileges while whitesandasians get discrimination.

When asked, we get phantom "white privilege" bs and hate hoaxes as evidence of racism.

The black bigot hates whites and Asians, practices bigotry and discrimination against whites and Asians, and we are to conclude that the "problem" is not from the side practicing bigotry and discrimination, but the actual victims who are framed by the hate hoaxes.

Im2 has likely been involved in dozens of hate hoaxes, and likely sucked the dicks of both Jussie Smollett and Michelle Obama.
We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported


Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action


What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...
You'll fit in great here, getting everything exactly ass backwards is a popular stance around here.
Did your parents have any children that weren't mentally challenged?
People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.
> People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.

OldLady, you just said that hiring based upon race is not racist. Literally.

You don't fight racism by instituting racist policies.

Instead of an insult you deserve, I'll give you a compliment... Cute avatar. :)


Look how she worded it. Those supporting discrimination are not racist - but they are bigots, because in the sick mind of the bigoted leftwing hypocrite, there is a difference between racism and bigotry. Racism implies looking down, and hence blacks and all the other bogus "victim" classes of the left cannot be racist...

EVEN AS THEY PRACTICE BIGOTRY AND DISCRIMINATION
We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported

Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action

What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...
What's wrong with a merit standard? White racists do not believe or do not want to believe that there are black people who are just as capable, intelligent, skilled, and educated as they are. There are also some who exceed them in those areas as well, yet they would NEVER find them meritorious enough to receive things that they've worked for and are entitled to, whether it's a good paying good, a prestigious job promotion, acceptance into an ivy league school, etc.

A case in point, read the ridiculous comments that the resident white racists of USMB have made about black people and women, even when qualified, not being "the best" candidate and then employee to pilot a commercial aircraft, even after it was pointed out to them that they have been doing so, just not is substantially large numbers for the last close to 75 years.

But since white racists also suffer from inferiority complexes and financial & social envy of successful blacks (because they cannot reconcile mentally how a black person could ever do better than they have) they attribute this "anomaly" to blacks allegedly being given advantages denied to them, affirmative action being their favorite pinata that they like to whack .

I am of the opinion that perhaps the true reason for them lagging behind is lack of critical thinking skills and abysmal reading comprehension skills. Perhaps you can assist by pointing out where in the text below ANYONE is given preference over ANYONE else, let alone over WHITES?

While the concept of affirmative action has existed in America since the 19th century, it first appeared in its current form in President Kennedy's Executive Order 10925 (1961): "The contractor will take affirmative action to ensure that applicants are employed, and that employees are treated during employment, without regard to their race, creed, color, or national origin."​
For federal contractors and subcontractors, affirmative action must be taken by covered employers to recruit and advance qualified minorities, women, persons with disabilities, and covered veterans. Affirmative actions include training programs, outreach efforts, and other positive steps. These procedures should be incorporated into the company's written personnel policies. Employers with written affirmative action programs must implement them, keep them on file and update them annually. Affirmative Action | U.S. Department of Labor
COMMENT: According to the department of labor, you are WRONG. Racist.
Yeah, you pulled one segment out of the entire page and ignored all of the rest. The Department of Labor is also where I obtained the text of the affirmative action EO I quoted, it's the same government agency:
Executive Order 11246, As Amended | U.S. Department of Labor

So where does it give preference to "unqualified blacks" over "qualified" whites? Depending upon your interpretation of the law, the whole point of the program is to increase the pool of qualified candidates that employers can select from and making sure that they include minorities as well as others. Do you have the same hostilities towards veterans and persons with disabilities? They cover the whole spectrum of races.

And when the government gives you money (contracts) then they get to specify the way you conduct the business you do for them including insisting that you comply with any and all applicable anti-discrimination laws, which you should be doing anyway. If you want to insist upon your right to be a raging racist then fine you can work for someone else.

And I'm sure you know this but just in case you or anyone else didn't, white women have benefited from affirmative action more than any other demographic according to the U.S. Department of Labor (same agency once again)
Findings
  • The study found that compliance reviews initiated against an establishment in the 1970s significantly increased the share of women and African Americans it employed as managers, not only in the 1970s but also through the 1980s and 1990s. A first compliance review in the 1970s increased the odds of white women in management by an estimated 34 percent, of African American women by 18 percent, and of African American men by 28 percent.
  • Compliance reviews initiated in the 1970s led to significantly greater increases in female and African American employment shares than did reviews conducted in the 1980s.
  • Larger numbers of lawsuits significantly increased employment shares for women and African Americans.
Try reading everything next time--This section (in the link that I gave you) essentially dictates that the workforce of particular sized companies must have workforces that reflect to demographic of an area. Here is the pertinent ppg.
Subpart B—Purpose and Contents of Affirmative Action Programs

return arrow Back to Top
§60-2.10 General purpose and contents of affirmative action programs.
(a) Purpose. (1) An affirmative action program is a management tool designed to ensure equal employment opportunity. A central premise underlying affirmative action is that, absent discrimination, over time a contractor's workforce, generally, will reflect the gender, racial and ethnic profile of the labor pools from which the contractor recruits and selects. Affirmative action programs contain a diagnostic component which includes a number of quantitative analyses designed to evaluate the composition of the workforce of the contractor and compare it to the composition of the relevant labor pools. Affirmative action programs also include action-oriented programs. If women and minorities are not being employed at a rate to be expected given their availability in the relevant labor pool, the contractor's affirmative action program includes specific practical steps designed to address this underutilization. Effective affirmative action programs also include internal auditing and reporting systems as a means of measuring the contractor's progress toward achieving the workforce that would be expected in the absence of discrimination.
I refer you back to the portion of one of my previous comment in which I mention subpar reading comprehension abilities. What they're saying is that the workforce should reflect the composition of the "relevent labor pool" "absent discrimination":

Subpart B—Purpose and Contents of Affirmative Action Programs

return arrow Back to Top
§60-2.10 General purpose and contents of affirmative action programs.
(a) Purpose. (1) An affirmative action program is a management tool designed to ensure equal employment opportunity. A central premise underlying affirmative action is that, ****absent discrimination****, over time a contractor's workforce, generally, will reflect the gender, racial and ethnic profile of the labor pools from which the contractor recruits and selects. Affirmative action programs contain a diagnostic component which includes a number of quantitative analyses designed to evaluate the composition of the workforce of the contractor and compare it to the composition of the relevant labor pools. Affirmative action programs also include action-oriented programs. If women and minorities are not being employed at a rate to be expected given their availability in the relevant labor pool, the contractor's affirmative action program includes specific practical steps designed to address this underutilization. Effective affirmative action programs also include internal auditing and reporting systems as a means of measuring the contractor's progress toward achieving the workforce that would be expected ****in the absence of discrimination****.
By your reckoning the NBA should be 87% white. You are a racist and cannot compete on a level playing field--if you could, you would not be adverse to repealing affirmative action, indeed I feel that all mention of gender and race should be removed from any official documentation. You become XYZ123 in anything official and let the chips fall where they may. I am open to that scenario--ARE YOU?
Oh is that why you're laughing like a hyena? Because you think I'm a racist "victim" who cannot compete without affirmative action? Are you making a wager? What's the stakes and in what field(s) are we going to compete? According to when you entered the work force you'd have to be in your 70s, are you even still looking for work and don't feel you should have to compete with black people at all, is that what you're saying?'

Because that's what affirmative action has done for me, it's provided me with an opportunity to compete in fields in which I would otherwise be possibly excluded, not because I was unable to compete but due to my race and/or gender. Both of the fields I'm in presently are dominated by white males, some of whom are not so subtle about their dislike of my presence in their world.

So, what's your story? Who's depriving you of opportunities, how and in what fields? Inquiring minds want to know.
> Both of the fields I'm in presently are dominated by white males

Congratulations! When it comes time for layoffs, there is no way they will cut you, even if your performance is sub-par, for fear of a discrimination lawsuit. Enjoy your privilege! :)
LOL is this what you're teaching your "getting ready for college age" son? That no matter how well the non-whites do, always know you're better than them?
No. My son is doing wonderfully well in college. I don't need to teach him about equality; he's an adult now and very smart.

I have no issues at all with other races. I work with a whole bunch of exceptionally-talented people who just so happen to be very diverse in terms of race, gender, sexual preference, and politics. Many are not US citizens, but they are all here legally, and they are incredibly smart. I have deep friendships with a lot of my colleagues, and like and respect everyone I work with. I'd say that my work is probably much more diverse than the local population.

We have people who immigrated from Western Europe, Eastern Europe, Nigeria, Thailand, China, India, Nepal, Kenya, Egypt, etc. One of our senior VPs is from Palestine. Race never comes up, and everyone is always treated with respect.

None of my colleagues complain about racism or other forms of oppression. They all work hard, and as a result, they are compensated handsomely and have really enjoyable, if challenging, jobs.

They didn't need Affirmative Action to succeed, and they weren't even born here, and most had less than you as children. Why do you need Affirmative Action to succeed? It happens naturally, if you have some skills to offer and are willing to work hard.
You're the only person saying I need Affirmative Action to succeed, in fact you've assumed that's the only way I've achieved anything in my life. Well the only person right here right now, God know that's a favorite theme amongst the white racists - affirmative action admission, affirmative action hire.

As for your work environment you've described, that's wonderful and race shouldn't come up. Yet you still can't keep from taking digs at me like I have no knowledge of such a world. Why is that?
Read your posts on this thread.
We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported


Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action


What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...
You'll fit in great here, getting everything exactly ass backwards is a popular stance around here.
Did your parents have any children that weren't mentally challenged?
People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.
> People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.

OldLady, you just said that hiring based upon race is not racist. Literally.

You don't fight racism by instituting racist policies.

Instead of an insult you deserve, I'll give you a compliment... Cute avatar. :)
Racism involves believing other groups are inferior to yours. It's not a racist policy to break centuries of bigotry by encouraging minorities get a chance.

you think minorities need your encouragement? I don’t know sounds awfully paternalistic
I'm not one who hires or selects students to my university. But some of them do, yeah.
> I'm not one who hires or selects students to my university. But some of them [minorities] do, yeah.

OldLady, that's just more racism from you. Some of every group of people requires encouragement to succeed.

You keep focusing on skin color, when you should be focused on character. Extra help should be based upon need, not DNA. Counting skin colors and lowering standards for people based upon ethnicity is inherently racist and has been illegal for over 55 years..
I agree if everyone were that fair minded, that would be right. Everyone is not that fair minded.
Everyone is not that fair minded. I agree but you are defending the unfairness on one side while vilifying it on the other side. That is the same as Affirmative Action. Equality means equal treatment. Giving preferential treatment based on ethnicity is RACISM and "preferential" is contrary to "equal."
Actually the agency created to enforce and monitor compliance of the work portion of the Civil Rights Act is the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. Emphasis on "Opportunity".

Some of you sound like you're afraid you can't compete on a level playing field.
Never had anything else--I entered the workforce in 1965. I have worked blue collar jobs, white collar jobs and military in my career. In EVERY one of those jobs I worked and fought side by side with every ethnic and gender group in the US. In not one of those jobs were the wages paid one cent different by job. What wasn't the same was the playing field. Every one of those people that I worked with enjoyed employment preferences that were not available to me. Sure that playing field. You seem to think that you can be a perpetual victim of ---- race, gender, whatever. What you really are is a racist bigot.
You had white male preference. It's the preference that has existed since the country started. There are no perpetual victims, just perpetual amnesia based delusions by whites, specifically right wing white males.


Black bigots get actual preferences by law.

Blacks get privileges while whitesandasians get discrimination.

When asked, we get phantom "white privilege" bs and hate hoaxes as evidence of racism.

The black bigot hates whites and Asians, practices bigotry and discrimination against whites and Asians, and we are to conclude that the "problem" is not from the side practicing bigotry and discrimination, but the actual victims who are framed by the hate hoaxes.

Im2 has likely been involved in dozens of hate hoaxes, and likely sucked the dicks of both Jussie Smollett and Michelle Obama.
We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported


Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action


What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...
You'll fit in great here, getting everything exactly ass backwards is a popular stance around here.
Did your parents have any children that weren't mentally challenged?
People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.
> People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.

OldLady, you just said that hiring based upon race is not racist. Literally.

You don't fight racism by instituting racist policies.

Instead of an insult you deserve, I'll give you a compliment... Cute avatar. :)


Look how she worded it. Those supporting discrimination are not racist - but they are bigots, because in the sick mind of the bigoted leftwing hypocrite, there is a difference between racism and bigotry. Racism implies looking down, and hence blacks and all the other bogus "victim" classes of the left cannot be racist...

EVEN AS THEY PRACTICE BIGOTRY AND DISCRIMINATION
We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported

Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action

What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...
What's wrong with a merit standard? White racists do not believe or do not want to believe that there are black people who are just as capable, intelligent, skilled, and educated as they are. There are also some who exceed them in those areas as well, yet they would NEVER find them meritorious enough to receive things that they've worked for and are entitled to, whether it's a good paying good, a prestigious job promotion, acceptance into an ivy league school, etc.

A case in point, read the ridiculous comments that the resident white racists of USMB have made about black people and women, even when qualified, not being "the best" candidate and then employee to pilot a commercial aircraft, even after it was pointed out to them that they have been doing so, just not is substantially large numbers for the last close to 75 years.

But since white racists also suffer from inferiority complexes and financial & social envy of successful blacks (because they cannot reconcile mentally how a black person could ever do better than they have) they attribute this "anomaly" to blacks allegedly being given advantages denied to them, affirmative action being their favorite pinata that they like to whack .

I am of the opinion that perhaps the true reason for them lagging behind is lack of critical thinking skills and abysmal reading comprehension skills. Perhaps you can assist by pointing out where in the text below ANYONE is given preference over ANYONE else, let alone over WHITES?

While the concept of affirmative action has existed in America since the 19th century, it first appeared in its current form in President Kennedy's Executive Order 10925 (1961): "The contractor will take affirmative action to ensure that applicants are employed, and that employees are treated during employment, without regard to their race, creed, color, or national origin."​
For federal contractors and subcontractors, affirmative action must be taken by covered employers to recruit and advance qualified minorities, women, persons with disabilities, and covered veterans. Affirmative actions include training programs, outreach efforts, and other positive steps. These procedures should be incorporated into the company's written personnel policies. Employers with written affirmative action programs must implement them, keep them on file and update them annually. Affirmative Action | U.S. Department of Labor
COMMENT: According to the department of labor, you are WRONG. Racist.
Yeah, you pulled one segment out of the entire page and ignored all of the rest. The Department of Labor is also where I obtained the text of the affirmative action EO I quoted, it's the same government agency:
Executive Order 11246, As Amended | U.S. Department of Labor

So where does it give preference to "unqualified blacks" over "qualified" whites? Depending upon your interpretation of the law, the whole point of the program is to increase the pool of qualified candidates that employers can select from and making sure that they include minorities as well as others. Do you have the same hostilities towards veterans and persons with disabilities? They cover the whole spectrum of races.

And when the government gives you money (contracts) then they get to specify the way you conduct the business you do for them including insisting that you comply with any and all applicable anti-discrimination laws, which you should be doing anyway. If you want to insist upon your right to be a raging racist then fine you can work for someone else.

And I'm sure you know this but just in case you or anyone else didn't, white women have benefited from affirmative action more than any other demographic according to the U.S. Department of Labor (same agency once again)
Findings
  • The study found that compliance reviews initiated against an establishment in the 1970s significantly increased the share of women and African Americans it employed as managers, not only in the 1970s but also through the 1980s and 1990s. A first compliance review in the 1970s increased the odds of white women in management by an estimated 34 percent, of African American women by 18 percent, and of African American men by 28 percent.
  • Compliance reviews initiated in the 1970s led to significantly greater increases in female and African American employment shares than did reviews conducted in the 1980s.
  • Larger numbers of lawsuits significantly increased employment shares for women and African Americans.
Try reading everything next time--This section (in the link that I gave you) essentially dictates that the workforce of particular sized companies must have workforces that reflect to demographic of an area. Here is the pertinent ppg.
Subpart B—Purpose and Contents of Affirmative Action Programs

return arrow Back to Top
§60-2.10 General purpose and contents of affirmative action programs.
(a) Purpose. (1) An affirmative action program is a management tool designed to ensure equal employment opportunity. A central premise underlying affirmative action is that, absent discrimination, over time a contractor's workforce, generally, will reflect the gender, racial and ethnic profile of the labor pools from which the contractor recruits and selects. Affirmative action programs contain a diagnostic component which includes a number of quantitative analyses designed to evaluate the composition of the workforce of the contractor and compare it to the composition of the relevant labor pools. Affirmative action programs also include action-oriented programs. If women and minorities are not being employed at a rate to be expected given their availability in the relevant labor pool, the contractor's affirmative action program includes specific practical steps designed to address this underutilization. Effective affirmative action programs also include internal auditing and reporting systems as a means of measuring the contractor's progress toward achieving the workforce that would be expected in the absence of discrimination.
I refer you back to the portion of one of my previous comment in which I mention subpar reading comprehension abilities. What they're saying is that the workforce should reflect the composition of the "relevent labor pool" "absent discrimination":

Subpart B—Purpose and Contents of Affirmative Action Programs

return arrow Back to Top
§60-2.10 General purpose and contents of affirmative action programs.
(a) Purpose. (1) An affirmative action program is a management tool designed to ensure equal employment opportunity. A central premise underlying affirmative action is that, ****absent discrimination****, over time a contractor's workforce, generally, will reflect the gender, racial and ethnic profile of the labor pools from which the contractor recruits and selects. Affirmative action programs contain a diagnostic component which includes a number of quantitative analyses designed to evaluate the composition of the workforce of the contractor and compare it to the composition of the relevant labor pools. Affirmative action programs also include action-oriented programs. If women and minorities are not being employed at a rate to be expected given their availability in the relevant labor pool, the contractor's affirmative action program includes specific practical steps designed to address this underutilization. Effective affirmative action programs also include internal auditing and reporting systems as a means of measuring the contractor's progress toward achieving the workforce that would be expected ****in the absence of discrimination****.
By your reckoning the NBA should be 87% white. You are a racist and cannot compete on a level playing field--if you could, you would not be adverse to repealing affirmative action, indeed I feel that all mention of gender and race should be removed from any official documentation. You become XYZ123 in anything official and let the chips fall where they may. I am open to that scenario--ARE YOU?
Oh is that why you're laughing like a hyena? Because you think I'm a racist "victim" who cannot compete without affirmative action? Are you making a wager? What's the stakes and in what field(s) are we going to compete? According to when you entered the work force you'd have to be in your 70s, are you even still looking for work and don't feel you should have to compete with black people at all, is that what you're saying?'

Because that's what affirmative action has done for me, it's provided me with an opportunity to compete in fields in which I would otherwise be possibly excluded, not because I was unable to compete but due to my race and/or gender. Both of the fields I'm in presently are dominated by white males, some of whom are not so subtle about their dislike of my presence in their world.

So, what's your story? Who's depriving you of opportunities, how and in what fields? Inquiring minds want to know.
> Both of the fields I'm in presently are dominated by white males

Congratulations! When it comes time for layoffs, there is no way they will cut you, even if your performance is sub-par, for fear of a discrimination lawsuit. Enjoy your privilege! :)
LOL is this what you're teaching your "getting ready for college age" son? That no matter how well the non-whites do, always know you're better than them?
You have a serious self image problem. Do you honestly believe that people are judged on the color of their skin? Sounds like a racist bigot with an inferiority complex to me. Run along now.
Ohhh, having girfriend/boyfriend problems? Stop projecting your own insecurities on others.
You have tried to convince me that you can compete and that is what you got out of two days of trolling--you are as demented as the illegitimate resident of the WH. Tell me again how you don't disparage people on this thread and then go back and read your posts. You are a hypocritical troll playing on black privilege and I've no more time for you idiocy.
Check and mate!
 

IM2

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2,070
We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported


Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action


What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...
You'll fit in great here, getting everything exactly ass backwards is a popular stance around here.
Did your parents have any children that weren't mentally challenged?
People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.
> People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.

OldLady, you just said that hiring based upon race is not racist. Literally.

You don't fight racism by instituting racist policies.

Instead of an insult you deserve, I'll give you a compliment... Cute avatar. :)
Racism involves believing other groups are inferior to yours. It's not a racist policy to break centuries of bigotry by encouraging minorities get a chance.

you think minorities need your encouragement? I don’t know sounds awfully paternalistic
I'm not one who hires or selects students to my university. But some of them do, yeah.
> I'm not one who hires or selects students to my university. But some of them [minorities] do, yeah.

OldLady, that's just more racism from you. Some of every group of people requires encouragement to succeed.

You keep focusing on skin color, when you should be focused on character. Extra help should be based upon need, not DNA. Counting skin colors and lowering standards for people based upon ethnicity is inherently racist and has been illegal for over 55 years..
I agree if everyone were that fair minded, that would be right. Everyone is not that fair minded.
Everyone is not that fair minded. I agree but you are defending the unfairness on one side while vilifying it on the other side. That is the same as Affirmative Action. Equality means equal treatment. Giving preferential treatment based on ethnicity is RACISM and "preferential" is contrary to "equal."
Actually the agency created to enforce and monitor compliance of the work portion of the Civil Rights Act is the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. Emphasis on "Opportunity".

Some of you sound like you're afraid you can't compete on a level playing field.
Never had anything else--I entered the workforce in 1965. I have worked blue collar jobs, white collar jobs and military in my career. In EVERY one of those jobs I worked and fought side by side with every ethnic and gender group in the US. In not one of those jobs were the wages paid one cent different by job. What wasn't the same was the playing field. Every one of those people that I worked with enjoyed employment preferences that were not available to me. Sure that playing field. You seem to think that you can be a perpetual victim of ---- race, gender, whatever. What you really are is a racist bigot.
You had white male preference. It's the preference that has existed since the country started. There are no perpetual victims, just perpetual amnesia based delusions by whites, specifically right wing white males.


Black bigots get actual preferences by law.

Blacks get privileges while whitesandasians get discrimination.

When asked, we get phantom "white privilege" bs and hate hoaxes as evidence of racism.

The black bigot hates whites and Asians, practices bigotry and discrimination against whites and Asians, and we are to conclude that the "problem" is not from the side practicing bigotry and discrimination, but the actual victims who are framed by the hate hoaxes.

Im2 has likely been involved in dozens of hate hoaxes, and likely sucked the dicks of both Jussie Smollett and Michelle Obama.
We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported


Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action


What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...
You'll fit in great here, getting everything exactly ass backwards is a popular stance around here.
Did your parents have any children that weren't mentally challenged?
People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.
> People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.

OldLady, you just said that hiring based upon race is not racist. Literally.

You don't fight racism by instituting racist policies.

Instead of an insult you deserve, I'll give you a compliment... Cute avatar. :)


Look how she worded it. Those supporting discrimination are not racist - but they are bigots, because in the sick mind of the bigoted leftwing hypocrite, there is a difference between racism and bigotry. Racism implies looking down, and hence blacks and all the other bogus "victim" classes of the left cannot be racist...

EVEN AS THEY PRACTICE BIGOTRY AND DISCRIMINATION
We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported

Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action

What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...
What's wrong with a merit standard? White racists do not believe or do not want to believe that there are black people who are just as capable, intelligent, skilled, and educated as they are. There are also some who exceed them in those areas as well, yet they would NEVER find them meritorious enough to receive things that they've worked for and are entitled to, whether it's a good paying good, a prestigious job promotion, acceptance into an ivy league school, etc.

A case in point, read the ridiculous comments that the resident white racists of USMB have made about black people and women, even when qualified, not being "the best" candidate and then employee to pilot a commercial aircraft, even after it was pointed out to them that they have been doing so, just not is substantially large numbers for the last close to 75 years.

But since white racists also suffer from inferiority complexes and financial & social envy of successful blacks (because they cannot reconcile mentally how a black person could ever do better than they have) they attribute this "anomaly" to blacks allegedly being given advantages denied to them, affirmative action being their favorite pinata that they like to whack .

I am of the opinion that perhaps the true reason for them lagging behind is lack of critical thinking skills and abysmal reading comprehension skills. Perhaps you can assist by pointing out where in the text below ANYONE is given preference over ANYONE else, let alone over WHITES?

While the concept of affirmative action has existed in America since the 19th century, it first appeared in its current form in President Kennedy's Executive Order 10925 (1961): "The contractor will take affirmative action to ensure that applicants are employed, and that employees are treated during employment, without regard to their race, creed, color, or national origin."​
For federal contractors and subcontractors, affirmative action must be taken by covered employers to recruit and advance qualified minorities, women, persons with disabilities, and covered veterans. Affirmative actions include training programs, outreach efforts, and other positive steps. These procedures should be incorporated into the company's written personnel policies. Employers with written affirmative action programs must implement them, keep them on file and update them annually. Affirmative Action | U.S. Department of Labor
COMMENT: According to the department of labor, you are WRONG. Racist.
Yeah, you pulled one segment out of the entire page and ignored all of the rest. The Department of Labor is also where I obtained the text of the affirmative action EO I quoted, it's the same government agency:
Executive Order 11246, As Amended | U.S. Department of Labor

So where does it give preference to "unqualified blacks" over "qualified" whites? Depending upon your interpretation of the law, the whole point of the program is to increase the pool of qualified candidates that employers can select from and making sure that they include minorities as well as others. Do you have the same hostilities towards veterans and persons with disabilities? They cover the whole spectrum of races.

And when the government gives you money (contracts) then they get to specify the way you conduct the business you do for them including insisting that you comply with any and all applicable anti-discrimination laws, which you should be doing anyway. If you want to insist upon your right to be a raging racist then fine you can work for someone else.

And I'm sure you know this but just in case you or anyone else didn't, white women have benefited from affirmative action more than any other demographic according to the U.S. Department of Labor (same agency once again)
Findings
  • The study found that compliance reviews initiated against an establishment in the 1970s significantly increased the share of women and African Americans it employed as managers, not only in the 1970s but also through the 1980s and 1990s. A first compliance review in the 1970s increased the odds of white women in management by an estimated 34 percent, of African American women by 18 percent, and of African American men by 28 percent.
  • Compliance reviews initiated in the 1970s led to significantly greater increases in female and African American employment shares than did reviews conducted in the 1980s.
  • Larger numbers of lawsuits significantly increased employment shares for women and African Americans.
Try reading everything next time--This section (in the link that I gave you) essentially dictates that the workforce of particular sized companies must have workforces that reflect to demographic of an area. Here is the pertinent ppg.
Subpart B—Purpose and Contents of Affirmative Action Programs

return arrow Back to Top
§60-2.10 General purpose and contents of affirmative action programs.
(a) Purpose. (1) An affirmative action program is a management tool designed to ensure equal employment opportunity. A central premise underlying affirmative action is that, absent discrimination, over time a contractor's workforce, generally, will reflect the gender, racial and ethnic profile of the labor pools from which the contractor recruits and selects. Affirmative action programs contain a diagnostic component which includes a number of quantitative analyses designed to evaluate the composition of the workforce of the contractor and compare it to the composition of the relevant labor pools. Affirmative action programs also include action-oriented programs. If women and minorities are not being employed at a rate to be expected given their availability in the relevant labor pool, the contractor's affirmative action program includes specific practical steps designed to address this underutilization. Effective affirmative action programs also include internal auditing and reporting systems as a means of measuring the contractor's progress toward achieving the workforce that would be expected in the absence of discrimination.
I refer you back to the portion of one of my previous comment in which I mention subpar reading comprehension abilities. What they're saying is that the workforce should reflect the composition of the "relevent labor pool" "absent discrimination":

Subpart B—Purpose and Contents of Affirmative Action Programs

return arrow Back to Top
§60-2.10 General purpose and contents of affirmative action programs.
(a) Purpose. (1) An affirmative action program is a management tool designed to ensure equal employment opportunity. A central premise underlying affirmative action is that, ****absent discrimination****, over time a contractor's workforce, generally, will reflect the gender, racial and ethnic profile of the labor pools from which the contractor recruits and selects. Affirmative action programs contain a diagnostic component which includes a number of quantitative analyses designed to evaluate the composition of the workforce of the contractor and compare it to the composition of the relevant labor pools. Affirmative action programs also include action-oriented programs. If women and minorities are not being employed at a rate to be expected given their availability in the relevant labor pool, the contractor's affirmative action program includes specific practical steps designed to address this underutilization. Effective affirmative action programs also include internal auditing and reporting systems as a means of measuring the contractor's progress toward achieving the workforce that would be expected ****in the absence of discrimination****.
By your reckoning the NBA should be 87% white. You are a racist and cannot compete on a level playing field--if you could, you would not be adverse to repealing affirmative action, indeed I feel that all mention of gender and race should be removed from any official documentation. You become XYZ123 in anything official and let the chips fall where they may. I am open to that scenario--ARE YOU?
Oh is that why you're laughing like a hyena? Because you think I'm a racist "victim" who cannot compete without affirmative action? Are you making a wager? What's the stakes and in what field(s) are we going to compete? According to when you entered the work force you'd have to be in your 70s, are you even still looking for work and don't feel you should have to compete with black people at all, is that what you're saying?'

Because that's what affirmative action has done for me, it's provided me with an opportunity to compete in fields in which I would otherwise be possibly excluded, not because I was unable to compete but due to my race and/or gender. Both of the fields I'm in presently are dominated by white males, some of whom are not so subtle about their dislike of my presence in their world.

So, what's your story? Who's depriving you of opportunities, how and in what fields? Inquiring minds want to know.
> Both of the fields I'm in presently are dominated by white males

Congratulations! When it comes time for layoffs, there is no way they will cut you, even if your performance is sub-par, for fear of a discrimination lawsuit. Enjoy your privilege! :)
LOL is this what you're teaching your "getting ready for college age" son? That no matter how well the non-whites do, always know you're better than them?
You have a serious self image problem. Do you honestly believe that people are judged on the color of their skin? Sounds like a racist bigot with an inferiority complex to me. Run along now.
We have 245 years worth of evidence starting from 1776 that proves your comment is a lie. Look at this forum, it is even more proof. and you spew your racist garbage then lie about not seeing race.
 

IM2

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The biggest reason I would be concerned about legislatively ending affirmative action is due to the retaliation I know will follow, I've seen it before. And because I feel that there is no need to do so because it is not this evil construct that you all have made it out to be.
What retaliation? BLM riots? If it is not an evil construct designed to advance black privilege then why are you so adamantly opposed to repealing it. I ask for nothing more than equality in America. Equality disappears every time a preferential law is passed. I do not understand why you have such an aversion to what you say you would like to see.
If you will tell me how affirmative action has harmed you then I'd more willing to explain the retaliation that I've seen in the past.
I told you in about the third post that I am not complaining about being harmed by AA. I have a problem with hypocrites playing on race, claiming to be victims. Please keep up. You don't want equality--you want preference.
Whites have had preference in this nation since it started. You argue against things that provide equal opportunity because you want to keep white preference.
 

NewsVine_Mariyam

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The biggest reason I would be concerned about legislatively ending affirmative action is due to the retaliation I know will follow, I've seen it before. And because I feel that there is no need to do so because it is not this evil construct that you all have made it out to be.
What retaliation? BLM riots? If it is not an evil construct designed to advance black privilege then why are you so adamantly opposed to repealing it. I ask for nothing more than equality in America. Equality disappears every time a preferential law is passed. I do not understand why you have such an aversion to what you say you would like to see.
If you will tell me how affirmative action has harmed you then I'd more willing to explain the retaliation that I've seen in the past.
I told you in about the third post that I am not complaining about being harmed by AA. I have a problem with hypocrites playing on race, claiming to be victims. Please keep up. You don't want equality--you want preference.
So if you haven't been harmed by affirmative action why are you complaining about it? Why are you complaining about something that hasn't negatively impacted your life?
 

NewsVine_Mariyam

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We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported


Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action


What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...
You'll fit in great here, getting everything exactly ass backwards is a popular stance around here.
Did your parents have any children that weren't mentally challenged?
People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.
> People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.

OldLady, you just said that hiring based upon race is not racist. Literally.

You don't fight racism by instituting racist policies.

Instead of an insult you deserve, I'll give you a compliment... Cute avatar. :)
Racism involves believing other groups are inferior to yours. It's not a racist policy to break centuries of bigotry by encouraging minorities get a chance.

you think minorities need your encouragement? I don’t know sounds awfully paternalistic
I'm not one who hires or selects students to my university. But some of them do, yeah.
> I'm not one who hires or selects students to my university. But some of them [minorities] do, yeah.

OldLady, that's just more racism from you. Some of every group of people requires encouragement to succeed.

You keep focusing on skin color, when you should be focused on character. Extra help should be based upon need, not DNA. Counting skin colors and lowering standards for people based upon ethnicity is inherently racist and has been illegal for over 55 years..
I agree if everyone were that fair minded, that would be right. Everyone is not that fair minded.
Everyone is not that fair minded. I agree but you are defending the unfairness on one side while vilifying it on the other side. That is the same as Affirmative Action. Equality means equal treatment. Giving preferential treatment based on ethnicity is RACISM and "preferential" is contrary to "equal."
Actually the agency created to enforce and monitor compliance of the work portion of the Civil Rights Act is the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. Emphasis on "Opportunity".

Some of you sound like you're afraid you can't compete on a level playing field.
Never had anything else--I entered the workforce in 1965. I have worked blue collar jobs, white collar jobs and military in my career. In EVERY one of those jobs I worked and fought side by side with every ethnic and gender group in the US. In not one of those jobs were the wages paid one cent different by job. What wasn't the same was the playing field. Every one of those people that I worked with enjoyed employment preferences that were not available to me. Sure that playing field. You seem to think that you can be a perpetual victim of ---- race, gender, whatever. What you really are is a racist bigot.
You had white male preference. It's the preference that has existed since the country started. There are no perpetual victims, just perpetual amnesia based delusions by whites, specifically right wing white males.


Black bigots get actual preferences by law.

Blacks get privileges while whitesandasians get discrimination.

When asked, we get phantom "white privilege" bs and hate hoaxes as evidence of racism.

The black bigot hates whites and Asians, practices bigotry and discrimination against whites and Asians, and we are to conclude that the "problem" is not from the side practicing bigotry and discrimination, but the actual victims who are framed by the hate hoaxes.

Im2 has likely been involved in dozens of hate hoaxes, and likely sucked the dicks of both Jussie Smollett and Michelle Obama.
We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported


Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action


What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...
You'll fit in great here, getting everything exactly ass backwards is a popular stance around here.
Did your parents have any children that weren't mentally challenged?
People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.
> People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.

OldLady, you just said that hiring based upon race is not racist. Literally.

You don't fight racism by instituting racist policies.

Instead of an insult you deserve, I'll give you a compliment... Cute avatar. :)


Look how she worded it. Those supporting discrimination are not racist - but they are bigots, because in the sick mind of the bigoted leftwing hypocrite, there is a difference between racism and bigotry. Racism implies looking down, and hence blacks and all the other bogus "victim" classes of the left cannot be racist...

EVEN AS THEY PRACTICE BIGOTRY AND DISCRIMINATION
We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported

Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action

What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...
What's wrong with a merit standard? White racists do not believe or do not want to believe that there are black people who are just as capable, intelligent, skilled, and educated as they are. There are also some who exceed them in those areas as well, yet they would NEVER find them meritorious enough to receive things that they've worked for and are entitled to, whether it's a good paying good, a prestigious job promotion, acceptance into an ivy league school, etc.

A case in point, read the ridiculous comments that the resident white racists of USMB have made about black people and women, even when qualified, not being "the best" candidate and then employee to pilot a commercial aircraft, even after it was pointed out to them that they have been doing so, just not is substantially large numbers for the last close to 75 years.

But since white racists also suffer from inferiority complexes and financial & social envy of successful blacks (because they cannot reconcile mentally how a black person could ever do better than they have) they attribute this "anomaly" to blacks allegedly being given advantages denied to them, affirmative action being their favorite pinata that they like to whack .

I am of the opinion that perhaps the true reason for them lagging behind is lack of critical thinking skills and abysmal reading comprehension skills. Perhaps you can assist by pointing out where in the text below ANYONE is given preference over ANYONE else, let alone over WHITES?

While the concept of affirmative action has existed in America since the 19th century, it first appeared in its current form in President Kennedy's Executive Order 10925 (1961): "The contractor will take affirmative action to ensure that applicants are employed, and that employees are treated during employment, without regard to their race, creed, color, or national origin."​
For federal contractors and subcontractors, affirmative action must be taken by covered employers to recruit and advance qualified minorities, women, persons with disabilities, and covered veterans. Affirmative actions include training programs, outreach efforts, and other positive steps. These procedures should be incorporated into the company's written personnel policies. Employers with written affirmative action programs must implement them, keep them on file and update them annually. Affirmative Action | U.S. Department of Labor
COMMENT: According to the department of labor, you are WRONG. Racist.
Yeah, you pulled one segment out of the entire page and ignored all of the rest. The Department of Labor is also where I obtained the text of the affirmative action EO I quoted, it's the same government agency:
Executive Order 11246, As Amended | U.S. Department of Labor

So where does it give preference to "unqualified blacks" over "qualified" whites? Depending upon your interpretation of the law, the whole point of the program is to increase the pool of qualified candidates that employers can select from and making sure that they include minorities as well as others. Do you have the same hostilities towards veterans and persons with disabilities? They cover the whole spectrum of races.

And when the government gives you money (contracts) then they get to specify the way you conduct the business you do for them including insisting that you comply with any and all applicable anti-discrimination laws, which you should be doing anyway. If you want to insist upon your right to be a raging racist then fine you can work for someone else.

And I'm sure you know this but just in case you or anyone else didn't, white women have benefited from affirmative action more than any other demographic according to the U.S. Department of Labor (same agency once again)
Findings
  • The study found that compliance reviews initiated against an establishment in the 1970s significantly increased the share of women and African Americans it employed as managers, not only in the 1970s but also through the 1980s and 1990s. A first compliance review in the 1970s increased the odds of white women in management by an estimated 34 percent, of African American women by 18 percent, and of African American men by 28 percent.
  • Compliance reviews initiated in the 1970s led to significantly greater increases in female and African American employment shares than did reviews conducted in the 1980s.
  • Larger numbers of lawsuits significantly increased employment shares for women and African Americans.
Try reading everything next time--This section (in the link that I gave you) essentially dictates that the workforce of particular sized companies must have workforces that reflect to demographic of an area. Here is the pertinent ppg.
Subpart B—Purpose and Contents of Affirmative Action Programs

return arrow Back to Top
§60-2.10 General purpose and contents of affirmative action programs.
(a) Purpose. (1) An affirmative action program is a management tool designed to ensure equal employment opportunity. A central premise underlying affirmative action is that, absent discrimination, over time a contractor's workforce, generally, will reflect the gender, racial and ethnic profile of the labor pools from which the contractor recruits and selects. Affirmative action programs contain a diagnostic component which includes a number of quantitative analyses designed to evaluate the composition of the workforce of the contractor and compare it to the composition of the relevant labor pools. Affirmative action programs also include action-oriented programs. If women and minorities are not being employed at a rate to be expected given their availability in the relevant labor pool, the contractor's affirmative action program includes specific practical steps designed to address this underutilization. Effective affirmative action programs also include internal auditing and reporting systems as a means of measuring the contractor's progress toward achieving the workforce that would be expected in the absence of discrimination.
I refer you back to the portion of one of my previous comment in which I mention subpar reading comprehension abilities. What they're saying is that the workforce should reflect the composition of the "relevent labor pool" "absent discrimination":

Subpart B—Purpose and Contents of Affirmative Action Programs

return arrow Back to Top
§60-2.10 General purpose and contents of affirmative action programs.
(a) Purpose. (1) An affirmative action program is a management tool designed to ensure equal employment opportunity. A central premise underlying affirmative action is that, ****absent discrimination****, over time a contractor's workforce, generally, will reflect the gender, racial and ethnic profile of the labor pools from which the contractor recruits and selects. Affirmative action programs contain a diagnostic component which includes a number of quantitative analyses designed to evaluate the composition of the workforce of the contractor and compare it to the composition of the relevant labor pools. Affirmative action programs also include action-oriented programs. If women and minorities are not being employed at a rate to be expected given their availability in the relevant labor pool, the contractor's affirmative action program includes specific practical steps designed to address this underutilization. Effective affirmative action programs also include internal auditing and reporting systems as a means of measuring the contractor's progress toward achieving the workforce that would be expected ****in the absence of discrimination****.
By your reckoning the NBA should be 87% white. You are a racist and cannot compete on a level playing field--if you could, you would not be adverse to repealing affirmative action, indeed I feel that all mention of gender and race should be removed from any official documentation. You become XYZ123 in anything official and let the chips fall where they may. I am open to that scenario--ARE YOU?
Oh is that why you're laughing like a hyena? Because you think I'm a racist "victim" who cannot compete without affirmative action? Are you making a wager? What's the stakes and in what field(s) are we going to compete? According to when you entered the work force you'd have to be in your 70s, are you even still looking for work and don't feel you should have to compete with black people at all, is that what you're saying?'

Because that's what affirmative action has done for me, it's provided me with an opportunity to compete in fields in which I would otherwise be possibly excluded, not because I was unable to compete but due to my race and/or gender. Both of the fields I'm in presently are dominated by white males, some of whom are not so subtle about their dislike of my presence in their world.

So, what's your story? Who's depriving you of opportunities, how and in what fields? Inquiring minds want to know.
> Both of the fields I'm in presently are dominated by white males

Congratulations! When it comes time for layoffs, there is no way they will cut you, even if your performance is sub-par, for fear of a discrimination lawsuit. Enjoy your privilege! :)
LOL is this what you're teaching your "getting ready for college age" son? That no matter how well the non-whites do, always know you're better than them?
No. My son is doing wonderfully well in college. I don't need to teach him about equality; he's an adult now and very smart.

I have no issues at all with other races. I work with a whole bunch of exceptionally-talented people who just so happen to be very diverse in terms of race, gender, sexual preference, and politics. Many are not US citizens, but they are all here legally, and they are incredibly smart. I have deep friendships with a lot of my colleagues, and like and respect everyone I work with. I'd say that my work is probably much more diverse than the local population.

We have people who immigrated from Western Europe, Eastern Europe, Nigeria, Thailand, China, India, Nepal, Kenya, Egypt, etc. One of our senior VPs is from Palestine. Race never comes up, and everyone is always treated with respect.

None of my colleagues complain about racism or other forms of oppression. They all work hard, and as a result, they are compensated handsomely and have really enjoyable, if challenging, jobs.

They didn't need Affirmative Action to succeed, and they weren't even born here, and most had less than you as children. Why do you need Affirmative Action to succeed? It happens naturally, if you have some skills to offer and are willing to work hard.
You're the only person saying I need Affirmative Action to succeed, in fact you've assumed that's the only way I've achieved anything in my life. Well the only person right here right now, God know that's a favorite theme amongst the white racists - affirmative action admission, affirmative action hire.

As for your work environment you've described, that's wonderful and race shouldn't come up. Yet you still can't keep from taking digs at me like I have no knowledge of such a world. Why is that?
Read your posts on this thread.
We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported


Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action


What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...
You'll fit in great here, getting everything exactly ass backwards is a popular stance around here.
Did your parents have any children that weren't mentally challenged?
People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.
> People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.

OldLady, you just said that hiring based upon race is not racist. Literally.

You don't fight racism by instituting racist policies.

Instead of an insult you deserve, I'll give you a compliment... Cute avatar. :)
Racism involves believing other groups are inferior to yours. It's not a racist policy to break centuries of bigotry by encouraging minorities get a chance.

you think minorities need your encouragement? I don’t know sounds awfully paternalistic
I'm not one who hires or selects students to my university. But some of them do, yeah.
> I'm not one who hires or selects students to my university. But some of them [minorities] do, yeah.

OldLady, that's just more racism from you. Some of every group of people requires encouragement to succeed.

You keep focusing on skin color, when you should be focused on character. Extra help should be based upon need, not DNA. Counting skin colors and lowering standards for people based upon ethnicity is inherently racist and has been illegal for over 55 years..
I agree if everyone were that fair minded, that would be right. Everyone is not that fair minded.
Everyone is not that fair minded. I agree but you are defending the unfairness on one side while vilifying it on the other side. That is the same as Affirmative Action. Equality means equal treatment. Giving preferential treatment based on ethnicity is RACISM and "preferential" is contrary to "equal."
Actually the agency created to enforce and monitor compliance of the work portion of the Civil Rights Act is the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. Emphasis on "Opportunity".

Some of you sound like you're afraid you can't compete on a level playing field.
Never had anything else--I entered the workforce in 1965. I have worked blue collar jobs, white collar jobs and military in my career. In EVERY one of those jobs I worked and fought side by side with every ethnic and gender group in the US. In not one of those jobs were the wages paid one cent different by job. What wasn't the same was the playing field. Every one of those people that I worked with enjoyed employment preferences that were not available to me. Sure that playing field. You seem to think that you can be a perpetual victim of ---- race, gender, whatever. What you really are is a racist bigot.
You had white male preference. It's the preference that has existed since the country started. There are no perpetual victims, just perpetual amnesia based delusions by whites, specifically right wing white males.


Black bigots get actual preferences by law.

Blacks get privileges while whitesandasians get discrimination.

When asked, we get phantom "white privilege" bs and hate hoaxes as evidence of racism.

The black bigot hates whites and Asians, practices bigotry and discrimination against whites and Asians, and we are to conclude that the "problem" is not from the side practicing bigotry and discrimination, but the actual victims who are framed by the hate hoaxes.

Im2 has likely been involved in dozens of hate hoaxes, and likely sucked the dicks of both Jussie Smollett and Michelle Obama.
We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported


Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action


What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...
You'll fit in great here, getting everything exactly ass backwards is a popular stance around here.
Did your parents have any children that weren't mentally challenged?
People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.
> People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.

OldLady, you just said that hiring based upon race is not racist. Literally.

You don't fight racism by instituting racist policies.

Instead of an insult you deserve, I'll give you a compliment... Cute avatar. :)


Look how she worded it. Those supporting discrimination are not racist - but they are bigots, because in the sick mind of the bigoted leftwing hypocrite, there is a difference between racism and bigotry. Racism implies looking down, and hence blacks and all the other bogus "victim" classes of the left cannot be racist...

EVEN AS THEY PRACTICE BIGOTRY AND DISCRIMINATION
We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported

Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action

What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...
What's wrong with a merit standard? White racists do not believe or do not want to believe that there are black people who are just as capable, intelligent, skilled, and educated as they are. There are also some who exceed them in those areas as well, yet they would NEVER find them meritorious enough to receive things that they've worked for and are entitled to, whether it's a good paying good, a prestigious job promotion, acceptance into an ivy league school, etc.

A case in point, read the ridiculous comments that the resident white racists of USMB have made about black people and women, even when qualified, not being "the best" candidate and then employee to pilot a commercial aircraft, even after it was pointed out to them that they have been doing so, just not is substantially large numbers for the last close to 75 years.

But since white racists also suffer from inferiority complexes and financial & social envy of successful blacks (because they cannot reconcile mentally how a black person could ever do better than they have) they attribute this "anomaly" to blacks allegedly being given advantages denied to them, affirmative action being their favorite pinata that they like to whack .

I am of the opinion that perhaps the true reason for them lagging behind is lack of critical thinking skills and abysmal reading comprehension skills. Perhaps you can assist by pointing out where in the text below ANYONE is given preference over ANYONE else, let alone over WHITES?

While the concept of affirmative action has existed in America since the 19th century, it first appeared in its current form in President Kennedy's Executive Order 10925 (1961): "The contractor will take affirmative action to ensure that applicants are employed, and that employees are treated during employment, without regard to their race, creed, color, or national origin."​
For federal contractors and subcontractors, affirmative action must be taken by covered employers to recruit and advance qualified minorities, women, persons with disabilities, and covered veterans. Affirmative actions include training programs, outreach efforts, and other positive steps. These procedures should be incorporated into the company's written personnel policies. Employers with written affirmative action programs must implement them, keep them on file and update them annually. Affirmative Action | U.S. Department of Labor
COMMENT: According to the department of labor, you are WRONG. Racist.
Yeah, you pulled one segment out of the entire page and ignored all of the rest. The Department of Labor is also where I obtained the text of the affirmative action EO I quoted, it's the same government agency:
Executive Order 11246, As Amended | U.S. Department of Labor

So where does it give preference to "unqualified blacks" over "qualified" whites? Depending upon your interpretation of the law, the whole point of the program is to increase the pool of qualified candidates that employers can select from and making sure that they include minorities as well as others. Do you have the same hostilities towards veterans and persons with disabilities? They cover the whole spectrum of races.

And when the government gives you money (contracts) then they get to specify the way you conduct the business you do for them including insisting that you comply with any and all applicable anti-discrimination laws, which you should be doing anyway. If you want to insist upon your right to be a raging racist then fine you can work for someone else.

And I'm sure you know this but just in case you or anyone else didn't, white women have benefited from affirmative action more than any other demographic according to the U.S. Department of Labor (same agency once again)
Findings
  • The study found that compliance reviews initiated against an establishment in the 1970s significantly increased the share of women and African Americans it employed as managers, not only in the 1970s but also through the 1980s and 1990s. A first compliance review in the 1970s increased the odds of white women in management by an estimated 34 percent, of African American women by 18 percent, and of African American men by 28 percent.
  • Compliance reviews initiated in the 1970s led to significantly greater increases in female and African American employment shares than did reviews conducted in the 1980s.
  • Larger numbers of lawsuits significantly increased employment shares for women and African Americans.
Try reading everything next time--This section (in the link that I gave you) essentially dictates that the workforce of particular sized companies must have workforces that reflect to demographic of an area. Here is the pertinent ppg.
Subpart B—Purpose and Contents of Affirmative Action Programs

return arrow Back to Top
§60-2.10 General purpose and contents of affirmative action programs.
(a) Purpose. (1) An affirmative action program is a management tool designed to ensure equal employment opportunity. A central premise underlying affirmative action is that, absent discrimination, over time a contractor's workforce, generally, will reflect the gender, racial and ethnic profile of the labor pools from which the contractor recruits and selects. Affirmative action programs contain a diagnostic component which includes a number of quantitative analyses designed to evaluate the composition of the workforce of the contractor and compare it to the composition of the relevant labor pools. Affirmative action programs also include action-oriented programs. If women and minorities are not being employed at a rate to be expected given their availability in the relevant labor pool, the contractor's affirmative action program includes specific practical steps designed to address this underutilization. Effective affirmative action programs also include internal auditing and reporting systems as a means of measuring the contractor's progress toward achieving the workforce that would be expected in the absence of discrimination.
I refer you back to the portion of one of my previous comment in which I mention subpar reading comprehension abilities. What they're saying is that the workforce should reflect the composition of the "relevent labor pool" "absent discrimination":

Subpart B—Purpose and Contents of Affirmative Action Programs

return arrow Back to Top
§60-2.10 General purpose and contents of affirmative action programs.
(a) Purpose. (1) An affirmative action program is a management tool designed to ensure equal employment opportunity. A central premise underlying affirmative action is that, ****absent discrimination****, over time a contractor's workforce, generally, will reflect the gender, racial and ethnic profile of the labor pools from which the contractor recruits and selects. Affirmative action programs contain a diagnostic component which includes a number of quantitative analyses designed to evaluate the composition of the workforce of the contractor and compare it to the composition of the relevant labor pools. Affirmative action programs also include action-oriented programs. If women and minorities are not being employed at a rate to be expected given their availability in the relevant labor pool, the contractor's affirmative action program includes specific practical steps designed to address this underutilization. Effective affirmative action programs also include internal auditing and reporting systems as a means of measuring the contractor's progress toward achieving the workforce that would be expected ****in the absence of discrimination****.
By your reckoning the NBA should be 87% white. You are a racist and cannot compete on a level playing field--if you could, you would not be adverse to repealing affirmative action, indeed I feel that all mention of gender and race should be removed from any official documentation. You become XYZ123 in anything official and let the chips fall where they may. I am open to that scenario--ARE YOU?
Oh is that why you're laughing like a hyena? Because you think I'm a racist "victim" who cannot compete without affirmative action? Are you making a wager? What's the stakes and in what field(s) are we going to compete? According to when you entered the work force you'd have to be in your 70s, are you even still looking for work and don't feel you should have to compete with black people at all, is that what you're saying?'

Because that's what affirmative action has done for me, it's provided me with an opportunity to compete in fields in which I would otherwise be possibly excluded, not because I was unable to compete but due to my race and/or gender. Both of the fields I'm in presently are dominated by white males, some of whom are not so subtle about their dislike of my presence in their world.

So, what's your story? Who's depriving you of opportunities, how and in what fields? Inquiring minds want to know.
> Both of the fields I'm in presently are dominated by white males

Congratulations! When it comes time for layoffs, there is no way they will cut you, even if your performance is sub-par, for fear of a discrimination lawsuit. Enjoy your privilege! :)
LOL is this what you're teaching your "getting ready for college age" son? That no matter how well the non-whites do, always know you're better than them?
You have a serious self image problem. Do you honestly believe that people are judged on the color of their skin? Sounds like a racist bigot with an inferiority complex to me. Run along now.
Ohhh, having girfriend/boyfriend problems? Stop projecting your own insecurities on others.
You have tried to convince me that you can compete and that is what you got out of two days of trolling--you are as demented as the illegitimate resident of the WH. Tell me again how you don't disparage people on this thread and then go back and read your posts. You are a hypocritical troll playing on black privilege and I've no more time for you idiocy.
You currently live in Florida right?
 

IM2

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"You have tried to convince me that you can compete and that is what you got out of two days of trolling--you are as demented as the illegitimate resident of the WH. Tell me again how you don't disparage people on this thread and then go back and read your posts. You are a hypocritical troll playing on black privilege and I've no more time for you idiocy. "

Newsvine beat you like a government mule. You can't compete without white preference. There is no black privilege. But there is white fragility and the above quote is an example.
 

IM2

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The white racist delusion of grandeur needs to end. What you claim affirmative action is white males have received for going on 245 years as of the upcoming 4th of July.
 

Jim H - VA USA

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We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported


Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action


What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...
You'll fit in great here, getting everything exactly ass backwards is a popular stance around here.
Did your parents have any children that weren't mentally challenged?
People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.
> People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.

OldLady, you just said that hiring based upon race is not racist. Literally.

You don't fight racism by instituting racist policies.

Instead of an insult you deserve, I'll give you a compliment... Cute avatar. :)
Racism involves believing other groups are inferior to yours. It's not a racist policy to break centuries of bigotry by encouraging minorities get a chance.

you think minorities need your encouragement? I don’t know sounds awfully paternalistic
I'm not one who hires or selects students to my university. But some of them do, yeah.
> I'm not one who hires or selects students to my university. But some of them [minorities] do, yeah.

OldLady, that's just more racism from you. Some of every group of people requires encouragement to succeed.

You keep focusing on skin color, when you should be focused on character. Extra help should be based upon need, not DNA. Counting skin colors and lowering standards for people based upon ethnicity is inherently racist and has been illegal for over 55 years..
I agree if everyone were that fair minded, that would be right. Everyone is not that fair minded.
Everyone is not that fair minded. I agree but you are defending the unfairness on one side while vilifying it on the other side. That is the same as Affirmative Action. Equality means equal treatment. Giving preferential treatment based on ethnicity is RACISM and "preferential" is contrary to "equal."
Actually the agency created to enforce and monitor compliance of the work portion of the Civil Rights Act is the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. Emphasis on "Opportunity".

Some of you sound like you're afraid you can't compete on a level playing field.
Never had anything else--I entered the workforce in 1965. I have worked blue collar jobs, white collar jobs and military in my career. In EVERY one of those jobs I worked and fought side by side with every ethnic and gender group in the US. In not one of those jobs were the wages paid one cent different by job. What wasn't the same was the playing field. Every one of those people that I worked with enjoyed employment preferences that were not available to me. Sure that playing field. You seem to think that you can be a perpetual victim of ---- race, gender, whatever. What you really are is a racist bigot.
You had white male preference. It's the preference that has existed since the country started. There are no perpetual victims, just perpetual amnesia based delusions by whites, specifically right wing white males.


Black bigots get actual preferences by law.

Blacks get privileges while whitesandasians get discrimination.

When asked, we get phantom "white privilege" bs and hate hoaxes as evidence of racism.

The black bigot hates whites and Asians, practices bigotry and discrimination against whites and Asians, and we are to conclude that the "problem" is not from the side practicing bigotry and discrimination, but the actual victims who are framed by the hate hoaxes.

Im2 has likely been involved in dozens of hate hoaxes, and likely sucked the dicks of both Jussie Smollett and Michelle Obama.
We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported


Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action


What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...
You'll fit in great here, getting everything exactly ass backwards is a popular stance around here.
Did your parents have any children that weren't mentally challenged?
People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.
> People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.

OldLady, you just said that hiring based upon race is not racist. Literally.

You don't fight racism by instituting racist policies.

Instead of an insult you deserve, I'll give you a compliment... Cute avatar. :)


Look how she worded it. Those supporting discrimination are not racist - but they are bigots, because in the sick mind of the bigoted leftwing hypocrite, there is a difference between racism and bigotry. Racism implies looking down, and hence blacks and all the other bogus "victim" classes of the left cannot be racist...

EVEN AS THEY PRACTICE BIGOTRY AND DISCRIMINATION
We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported

Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action

What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...
What's wrong with a merit standard? White racists do not believe or do not want to believe that there are black people who are just as capable, intelligent, skilled, and educated as they are. There are also some who exceed them in those areas as well, yet they would NEVER find them meritorious enough to receive things that they've worked for and are entitled to, whether it's a good paying good, a prestigious job promotion, acceptance into an ivy league school, etc.

A case in point, read the ridiculous comments that the resident white racists of USMB have made about black people and women, even when qualified, not being "the best" candidate and then employee to pilot a commercial aircraft, even after it was pointed out to them that they have been doing so, just not is substantially large numbers for the last close to 75 years.

But since white racists also suffer from inferiority complexes and financial & social envy of successful blacks (because they cannot reconcile mentally how a black person could ever do better than they have) they attribute this "anomaly" to blacks allegedly being given advantages denied to them, affirmative action being their favorite pinata that they like to whack .

I am of the opinion that perhaps the true reason for them lagging behind is lack of critical thinking skills and abysmal reading comprehension skills. Perhaps you can assist by pointing out where in the text below ANYONE is given preference over ANYONE else, let alone over WHITES?

While the concept of affirmative action has existed in America since the 19th century, it first appeared in its current form in President Kennedy's Executive Order 10925 (1961): "The contractor will take affirmative action to ensure that applicants are employed, and that employees are treated during employment, without regard to their race, creed, color, or national origin."​
For federal contractors and subcontractors, affirmative action must be taken by covered employers to recruit and advance qualified minorities, women, persons with disabilities, and covered veterans. Affirmative actions include training programs, outreach efforts, and other positive steps. These procedures should be incorporated into the company's written personnel policies. Employers with written affirmative action programs must implement them, keep them on file and update them annually. Affirmative Action | U.S. Department of Labor
COMMENT: According to the department of labor, you are WRONG. Racist.
Yeah, you pulled one segment out of the entire page and ignored all of the rest. The Department of Labor is also where I obtained the text of the affirmative action EO I quoted, it's the same government agency:
Executive Order 11246, As Amended | U.S. Department of Labor

So where does it give preference to "unqualified blacks" over "qualified" whites? Depending upon your interpretation of the law, the whole point of the program is to increase the pool of qualified candidates that employers can select from and making sure that they include minorities as well as others. Do you have the same hostilities towards veterans and persons with disabilities? They cover the whole spectrum of races.

And when the government gives you money (contracts) then they get to specify the way you conduct the business you do for them including insisting that you comply with any and all applicable anti-discrimination laws, which you should be doing anyway. If you want to insist upon your right to be a raging racist then fine you can work for someone else.

And I'm sure you know this but just in case you or anyone else didn't, white women have benefited from affirmative action more than any other demographic according to the U.S. Department of Labor (same agency once again)
Findings
  • The study found that compliance reviews initiated against an establishment in the 1970s significantly increased the share of women and African Americans it employed as managers, not only in the 1970s but also through the 1980s and 1990s. A first compliance review in the 1970s increased the odds of white women in management by an estimated 34 percent, of African American women by 18 percent, and of African American men by 28 percent.
  • Compliance reviews initiated in the 1970s led to significantly greater increases in female and African American employment shares than did reviews conducted in the 1980s.
  • Larger numbers of lawsuits significantly increased employment shares for women and African Americans.
Try reading everything next time--This section (in the link that I gave you) essentially dictates that the workforce of particular sized companies must have workforces that reflect to demographic of an area. Here is the pertinent ppg.
Subpart B—Purpose and Contents of Affirmative Action Programs

return arrow Back to Top
§60-2.10 General purpose and contents of affirmative action programs.
(a) Purpose. (1) An affirmative action program is a management tool designed to ensure equal employment opportunity. A central premise underlying affirmative action is that, absent discrimination, over time a contractor's workforce, generally, will reflect the gender, racial and ethnic profile of the labor pools from which the contractor recruits and selects. Affirmative action programs contain a diagnostic component which includes a number of quantitative analyses designed to evaluate the composition of the workforce of the contractor and compare it to the composition of the relevant labor pools. Affirmative action programs also include action-oriented programs. If women and minorities are not being employed at a rate to be expected given their availability in the relevant labor pool, the contractor's affirmative action program includes specific practical steps designed to address this underutilization. Effective affirmative action programs also include internal auditing and reporting systems as a means of measuring the contractor's progress toward achieving the workforce that would be expected in the absence of discrimination.
I refer you back to the portion of one of my previous comment in which I mention subpar reading comprehension abilities. What they're saying is that the workforce should reflect the composition of the "relevent labor pool" "absent discrimination":

Subpart B—Purpose and Contents of Affirmative Action Programs

return arrow Back to Top
§60-2.10 General purpose and contents of affirmative action programs.
(a) Purpose. (1) An affirmative action program is a management tool designed to ensure equal employment opportunity. A central premise underlying affirmative action is that, ****absent discrimination****, over time a contractor's workforce, generally, will reflect the gender, racial and ethnic profile of the labor pools from which the contractor recruits and selects. Affirmative action programs contain a diagnostic component which includes a number of quantitative analyses designed to evaluate the composition of the workforce of the contractor and compare it to the composition of the relevant labor pools. Affirmative action programs also include action-oriented programs. If women and minorities are not being employed at a rate to be expected given their availability in the relevant labor pool, the contractor's affirmative action program includes specific practical steps designed to address this underutilization. Effective affirmative action programs also include internal auditing and reporting systems as a means of measuring the contractor's progress toward achieving the workforce that would be expected ****in the absence of discrimination****.
By your reckoning the NBA should be 87% white. You are a racist and cannot compete on a level playing field--if you could, you would not be adverse to repealing affirmative action, indeed I feel that all mention of gender and race should be removed from any official documentation. You become XYZ123 in anything official and let the chips fall where they may. I am open to that scenario--ARE YOU?
Oh is that why you're laughing like a hyena? Because you think I'm a racist "victim" who cannot compete without affirmative action? Are you making a wager? What's the stakes and in what field(s) are we going to compete? According to when you entered the work force you'd have to be in your 70s, are you even still looking for work and don't feel you should have to compete with black people at all, is that what you're saying?'

Because that's what affirmative action has done for me, it's provided me with an opportunity to compete in fields in which I would otherwise be possibly excluded, not because I was unable to compete but due to my race and/or gender. Both of the fields I'm in presently are dominated by white males, some of whom are not so subtle about their dislike of my presence in their world.

So, what's your story? Who's depriving you of opportunities, how and in what fields? Inquiring minds want to know.
> Both of the fields I'm in presently are dominated by white males

Congratulations! When it comes time for layoffs, there is no way they will cut you, even if your performance is sub-par, for fear of a discrimination lawsuit. Enjoy your privilege! :)
LOL is this what you're teaching your "getting ready for college age" son? That no matter how well the non-whites do, always know you're better than them?
No. My son is doing wonderfully well in college. I don't need to teach him about equality; he's an adult now and very smart.

I have no issues at all with other races. I work with a whole bunch of exceptionally-talented people who just so happen to be very diverse in terms of race, gender, sexual preference, and politics. Many are not US citizens, but they are all here legally, and they are incredibly smart. I have deep friendships with a lot of my colleagues, and like and respect everyone I work with. I'd say that my work is probably much more diverse than the local population.

We have people who immigrated from Western Europe, Eastern Europe, Nigeria, Thailand, China, India, Nepal, Kenya, Egypt, etc. One of our senior VPs is from Palestine. Race never comes up, and everyone is always treated with respect.

None of my colleagues complain about racism or other forms of oppression. They all work hard, and as a result, they are compensated handsomely and have really enjoyable, if challenging, jobs.

They didn't need Affirmative Action to succeed, and they weren't even born here, and most had less than you as children. Why do you need Affirmative Action to succeed? It happens naturally, if you have some skills to offer and are willing to work hard.
You're the only person saying I need Affirmative Action to succeed, in fact you've assumed that's the only way I've achieved anything in my life. Well the only person right here right now, God know that's a favorite theme amongst the white racists - affirmative action admission, affirmative action hire.

As for your work environment you've described, that's wonderful and race shouldn't come up. Yet you still can't keep from taking digs at me like I have no knowledge of such a world. Why is that?
> You're the only person saying I need Affirmative Action to succeed,

Are you delusional? You said it yourself in this thread, right here...

> Because that's what affirmative action has done for me, it's provided me with an opportunity to compete in fields in which I would otherwise be possibly excluded, not because I was unable to compete but due to my race and/or gender. Both of the fields I'm in presently are dominated by white males, some of whom are not so subtle about their dislike of my presence in their world.


Poor little victim. You have to work with White males, and you pay attention to their skin color. I bet they are nice to you, and you just threw them under the bus, because you are a bigot, no?
 

IM2

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We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported


Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action


What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...
You'll fit in great here, getting everything exactly ass backwards is a popular stance around here.
Did your parents have any children that weren't mentally challenged?
People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.
> People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.

OldLady, you just said that hiring based upon race is not racist. Literally.

You don't fight racism by instituting racist policies.

Instead of an insult you deserve, I'll give you a compliment... Cute avatar. :)
Racism involves believing other groups are inferior to yours. It's not a racist policy to break centuries of bigotry by encouraging minorities get a chance.

you think minorities need your encouragement? I don’t know sounds awfully paternalistic
I'm not one who hires or selects students to my university. But some of them do, yeah.
> I'm not one who hires or selects students to my university. But some of them [minorities] do, yeah.

OldLady, that's just more racism from you. Some of every group of people requires encouragement to succeed.

You keep focusing on skin color, when you should be focused on character. Extra help should be based upon need, not DNA. Counting skin colors and lowering standards for people based upon ethnicity is inherently racist and has been illegal for over 55 years..
I agree if everyone were that fair minded, that would be right. Everyone is not that fair minded.
Everyone is not that fair minded. I agree but you are defending the unfairness on one side while vilifying it on the other side. That is the same as Affirmative Action. Equality means equal treatment. Giving preferential treatment based on ethnicity is RACISM and "preferential" is contrary to "equal."
Actually the agency created to enforce and monitor compliance of the work portion of the Civil Rights Act is the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. Emphasis on "Opportunity".

Some of you sound like you're afraid you can't compete on a level playing field.
Never had anything else--I entered the workforce in 1965. I have worked blue collar jobs, white collar jobs and military in my career. In EVERY one of those jobs I worked and fought side by side with every ethnic and gender group in the US. In not one of those jobs were the wages paid one cent different by job. What wasn't the same was the playing field. Every one of those people that I worked with enjoyed employment preferences that were not available to me. Sure that playing field. You seem to think that you can be a perpetual victim of ---- race, gender, whatever. What you really are is a racist bigot.
You had white male preference. It's the preference that has existed since the country started. There are no perpetual victims, just perpetual amnesia based delusions by whites, specifically right wing white males.


Black bigots get actual preferences by law.

Blacks get privileges while whitesandasians get discrimination.

When asked, we get phantom "white privilege" bs and hate hoaxes as evidence of racism.

The black bigot hates whites and Asians, practices bigotry and discrimination against whites and Asians, and we are to conclude that the "problem" is not from the side practicing bigotry and discrimination, but the actual victims who are framed by the hate hoaxes.

Im2 has likely been involved in dozens of hate hoaxes, and likely sucked the dicks of both Jussie Smollett and Michelle Obama.
We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported


Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action


What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...
You'll fit in great here, getting everything exactly ass backwards is a popular stance around here.
Did your parents have any children that weren't mentally challenged?
People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.
> People fighting bigotry with programs that encourage minority hiring are not racist; they are trying to combat it, shortbus.

OldLady, you just said that hiring based upon race is not racist. Literally.

You don't fight racism by instituting racist policies.

Instead of an insult you deserve, I'll give you a compliment... Cute avatar. :)


Look how she worded it. Those supporting discrimination are not racist - but they are bigots, because in the sick mind of the bigoted leftwing hypocrite, there is a difference between racism and bigotry. Racism implies looking down, and hence blacks and all the other bogus "victim" classes of the left cannot be racist...

EVEN AS THEY PRACTICE BIGOTRY AND DISCRIMINATION
We should do away with preferences for skin color, gender, sexuality. That is discrimination. Those who support affirmative action support discrimination. Those who support discrimination are bigots and supremacists.

Hence, the supporters of affirmative action are bigots and supremacists, as if that isn't the most obvious insight since someone said the sun is hot..

Why are the Democrats so afraid of equality? The democrat party has never supported equality. It has supported

Slavery
Segregation
Affirmative action

What is wrong with a merit standard?

If you believe your own demographic is too inferior to stand up in an equal merit based society, does that not make you a bigot and supremacist?

The left cannot debate this issue.

They rather will respond with hate and card tosses...
What's wrong with a merit standard? White racists do not believe or do not want to believe that there are black people who are just as capable, intelligent, skilled, and educated as they are. There are also some who exceed them in those areas as well, yet they would NEVER find them meritorious enough to receive things that they've worked for and are entitled to, whether it's a good paying good, a prestigious job promotion, acceptance into an ivy league school, etc.

A case in point, read the ridiculous comments that the resident white racists of USMB have made about black people and women, even when qualified, not being "the best" candidate and then employee to pilot a commercial aircraft, even after it was pointed out to them that they have been doing so, just not is substantially large numbers for the last close to 75 years.

But since white racists also suffer from inferiority complexes and financial & social envy of successful blacks (because they cannot reconcile mentally how a black person could ever do better than they have) they attribute this "anomaly" to blacks allegedly being given advantages denied to them, affirmative action being their favorite pinata that they like to whack .

I am of the opinion that perhaps the true reason for them lagging behind is lack of critical thinking skills and abysmal reading comprehension skills. Perhaps you can assist by pointing out where in the text below ANYONE is given preference over ANYONE else, let alone over WHITES?

While the concept of affirmative action has existed in America since the 19th century, it first appeared in its current form in President Kennedy's Executive Order 10925 (1961): "The contractor will take affirmative action to ensure that applicants are employed, and that employees are treated during employment, without regard to their race, creed, color, or national origin."​
For federal contractors and subcontractors, affirmative action must be taken by covered employers to recruit and advance qualified minorities, women, persons with disabilities, and covered veterans. Affirmative actions include training programs, outreach efforts, and other positive steps. These procedures should be incorporated into the company's written personnel policies. Employers with written affirmative action programs must implement them, keep them on file and update them annually. Affirmative Action | U.S. Department of Labor
COMMENT: According to the department of labor, you are WRONG. Racist.
Yeah, you pulled one segment out of the entire page and ignored all of the rest. The Department of Labor is also where I obtained the text of the affirmative action EO I quoted, it's the same government agency:
Executive Order 11246, As Amended | U.S. Department of Labor

So where does it give preference to "unqualified blacks" over "qualified" whites? Depending upon your interpretation of the law, the whole point of the program is to increase the pool of qualified candidates that employers can select from and making sure that they include minorities as well as others. Do you have the same hostilities towards veterans and persons with disabilities? They cover the whole spectrum of races.

And when the government gives you money (contracts) then they get to specify the way you conduct the business you do for them including insisting that you comply with any and all applicable anti-discrimination laws, which you should be doing anyway. If you want to insist upon your right to be a raging racist then fine you can work for someone else.

And I'm sure you know this but just in case you or anyone else didn't, white women have benefited from affirmative action more than any other demographic according to the U.S. Department of Labor (same agency once again)
Findings
  • The study found that compliance reviews initiated against an establishment in the 1970s significantly increased the share of women and African Americans it employed as managers, not only in the 1970s but also through the 1980s and 1990s. A first compliance review in the 1970s increased the odds of white women in management by an estimated 34 percent, of African American women by 18 percent, and of African American men by 28 percent.
  • Compliance reviews initiated in the 1970s led to significantly greater increases in female and African American employment shares than did reviews conducted in the 1980s.
  • Larger numbers of lawsuits significantly increased employment shares for women and African Americans.
Try reading everything next time--This section (in the link that I gave you) essentially dictates that the workforce of particular sized companies must have workforces that reflect to demographic of an area. Here is the pertinent ppg.
Subpart B—Purpose and Contents of Affirmative Action Programs

return arrow Back to Top
§60-2.10 General purpose and contents of affirmative action programs.
(a) Purpose. (1) An affirmative action program is a management tool designed to ensure equal employment opportunity. A central premise underlying affirmative action is that, absent discrimination, over time a contractor's workforce, generally, will reflect the gender, racial and ethnic profile of the labor pools from which the contractor recruits and selects. Affirmative action programs contain a diagnostic component which includes a number of quantitative analyses designed to evaluate the composition of the workforce of the contractor and compare it to the composition of the relevant labor pools. Affirmative action programs also include action-oriented programs. If women and minorities are not being employed at a rate to be expected given their availability in the relevant labor pool, the contractor's affirmative action program includes specific practical steps designed to address this underutilization. Effective affirmative action programs also include internal auditing and reporting systems as a means of measuring the contractor's progress toward achieving the workforce that would be expected in the absence of discrimination.
I refer you back to the portion of one of my previous comment in which I mention subpar reading comprehension abilities. What they're saying is that the workforce should reflect the composition of the "relevent labor pool" "absent discrimination":

Subpart B—Purpose and Contents of Affirmative Action Programs

return arrow Back to Top
§60-2.10 General purpose and contents of affirmative action programs.
(a) Purpose. (1) An affirmative action program is a management tool designed to ensure equal employment opportunity. A central premise underlying affirmative action is that, ****absent discrimination****, over time a contractor's workforce, generally, will reflect the gender, racial and ethnic profile of the labor pools from which the contractor recruits and selects. Affirmative action programs contain a diagnostic component which includes a number of quantitative analyses designed to evaluate the composition of the workforce of the contractor and compare it to the composition of the relevant labor pools. Affirmative action programs also include action-oriented programs. If women and minorities are not being employed at a rate to be expected given their availability in the relevant labor pool, the contractor's affirmative action program includes specific practical steps designed to address this underutilization. Effective affirmative action programs also include internal auditing and reporting systems as a means of measuring the contractor's progress toward achieving the workforce that would be expected ****in the absence of discrimination****.
By your reckoning the NBA should be 87% white. You are a racist and cannot compete on a level playing field--if you could, you would not be adverse to repealing affirmative action, indeed I feel that all mention of gender and race should be removed from any official documentation. You become XYZ123 in anything official and let the chips fall where they may. I am open to that scenario--ARE YOU?
Oh is that why you're laughing like a hyena? Because you think I'm a racist "victim" who cannot compete without affirmative action? Are you making a wager? What's the stakes and in what field(s) are we going to compete? According to when you entered the work force you'd have to be in your 70s, are you even still looking for work and don't feel you should have to compete with black people at all, is that what you're saying?'

Because that's what affirmative action has done for me, it's provided me with an opportunity to compete in fields in which I would otherwise be possibly excluded, not because I was unable to compete but due to my race and/or gender. Both of the fields I'm in presently are dominated by white males, some of whom are not so subtle about their dislike of my presence in their world.

So, what's your story? Who's depriving you of opportunities, how and in what fields? Inquiring minds want to know.
> Both of the fields I'm in presently are dominated by white males

Congratulations! When it comes time for layoffs, there is no way they will cut you, even if your performance is sub-par, for fear of a discrimination lawsuit. Enjoy your privilege! :)
LOL is this what you're teaching your "getting ready for college age" son? That no matter how well the non-whites do, always know you're better than them?
No. My son is doing wonderfully well in college. I don't need to teach him about equality; he's an adult now and very smart.

I have no issues at all with other races. I work with a whole bunch of exceptionally-talented people who just so happen to be very diverse in terms of race, gender, sexual preference, and politics. Many are not US citizens, but they are all here legally, and they are incredibly smart. I have deep friendships with a lot of my colleagues, and like and respect everyone I work with. I'd say that my work is probably much more diverse than the local population.

We have people who immigrated from Western Europe, Eastern Europe, Nigeria, Thailand, China, India, Nepal, Kenya, Egypt, etc. One of our senior VPs is from Palestine. Race never comes up, and everyone is always treated with respect.

None of my colleagues complain about racism or other forms of oppression. They all work hard, and as a result, they are compensated handsomely and have really enjoyable, if challenging, jobs.

They didn't need Affirmative Action to succeed, and they weren't even born here, and most had less than you as children. Why do you need Affirmative Action to succeed? It happens naturally, if you have some skills to offer and are willing to work hard.
You're the only person saying I need Affirmative Action to succeed, in fact you've assumed that's the only way I've achieved anything in my life. Well the only person right here right now, God know that's a favorite theme amongst the white racists - affirmative action admission, affirmative action hire.

As for your work environment you've described, that's wonderful and race shouldn't come up. Yet you still can't keep from taking digs at me like I have no knowledge of such a world. Why is that?
> You're the only person saying I need Affirmative Action to succeed,

Are you delusional? You said it yourself in this thread, right here...

> Because that's what affirmative action has done for me, it's provided me with an opportunity to compete in fields in which I would otherwise be possibly excluded, not because I was unable to compete but due to my race and/or gender. Both of the fields I'm in presently are dominated by white males, some of whom are not so subtle about their dislike of my presence in their world.


Poor little victim. You have to work with White males, and you pay attention to their skin color. I bet they are nice to you, and you just threw them under the bus, because you are a bigot, no?
Quit lying to yourself. If you didn't see color you wouldn't be here bitching, whining and moaning about AA.
 
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