Bachmann signs The Family Lead pledge

[Modbert]

ah so we are going to now get into definitions of liberal in the 50s/60's and now?

what I THINK you really mean is after 68 the dem. party started dumping many of their platforms.

What are you talking about now?

 

[CitizenPained]

So Modbert is kind of like the Obama platform?

 

[Modbert]

So Modbert is kind of like the Obama platform?

What? Mind clarifying because you're not making much sense.

 

[Si modo]

So Modbert is kind of like the Obama platform?

 

[Salt Jones]

I named one without thinking.

If you want others, there is Scott Brown and Chris Christie.

My guess is your head will explode over me including Christie, but he supports gun control and abortion, that makes him socially liberal.

What? Chris Christie a Liberal?

The guy is personally pro-life, however he doesn't support using his office as Governor to make it illegal.

Just because he decides to be aggressive about gun control laws or not outright ban Abortion does not make him a Liberal.

Actually, I think that balancing liberty with safety is what makes you a liberal. Or rather, the kind of liberal I grew up reading about.

I mean, you call Obama a liberal, right? But he says he's uh, 'still thinking' about same-sex marriage but doesn't support government discrimination. What does that tell you?

Liberal, to me, is about how you act - not your lip service.

Is it wrong if Obama has religious reasons for being against same sex marriage or are religious views and liberalism not compatible?

 

[MarcATL]

Michele "One Who Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest" Bachmann and her ilk has never seen a far rightwing pledge that they didn't want to sign.

The pledge is clearly advocating and/or suggesting the banning of pornography.

Good luck with THAT!

 

[CitizenPained]

What? Chris Christie a Liberal?

The guy is personally pro-life, however he doesn't support using his office as Governor to make it illegal.

Just because he decides to be aggressive about gun control laws or not outright ban Abortion does not make him a Liberal.

Actually, I think that balancing liberty with safety is what makes you a liberal. Or rather, the kind of liberal I grew up reading about.

I mean, you call Obama a liberal, right? But he says he's uh, 'still thinking' about same-sex marriage but doesn't support government discrimination. What does that tell you?

Liberal, to me, is about how you act - not your lip service.

Is it wrong if Obama has religious reasons for being against same sex marriage or are religious views and liberalism not compatible?

Like I said. It's about how you act. I mean, I'm Jewish (an atheist one, but whatever) and I vote Democrat along with 75 per cent of my fellow Jews. A Republican Jew just sounds weird when I say it aloud. Israel is really secular (and has plenty of social programs to make a Republican suicidal) and it's 70 per cent Jewish.

You can be religious and liberal.

 

[Si modo]

Michele "One Who Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest" Bachmann and her ilk has never seen a far rightwing pledge that they didn't want to sign.

The pledge is clearly advocating and/or suggesting the banning of pornography.

Good luck with THAT!

Actually, that part of the pledge is to protect children from pornography (likely by having some sort of censorship - parental or some sort of control mechanisms for parent...just a guess). I certainly saw no indication of any advocacy for a ban on it. But, if that is the case, then you are right; she will need some good luck with that.

But, based on her CV, I don't think she is quite that thick.

 

[Salt Jones]

Actually, I think that balancing liberty with safety is what makes you a liberal. Or rather, the kind of liberal I grew up reading about.

I mean, you call Obama a liberal, right? But he says he's uh, 'still thinking' about same-sex marriage but doesn't support government discrimination. What does that tell you?

Liberal, to me, is about how you act - not your lip service.

Is it wrong if Obama has religious reasons for being against same sex marriage or are religious views and liberalism not compatible?

Like I said. It's about how you act. I mean, I'm Jewish (an atheist one, but whatever) and I vote Democrat along with 75 per cent of my fellow Jews. A Republican Jew just sounds weird when I say it aloud. Israel is really secular (and has plenty of social programs to make a Republican suicidal) and it's 70 per cent Jewish.

You can be religious and liberal.

Can you be liberal and against same sex marriage?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Where the **** do you people get this bullshit from?

Take a look at the states the Blue dogs represent sometime, then compare them to Republicans from liberal states. You will see that the truth is that Republicans are just as broad spectrum as Democrats. There are far right, socially conservative Democrats, and far left, socially liberal Republicans.

Liberal Republicans are a near extinct breed. The only ones you have left in Congress is Snowe and Collins up in Maine. And on a constant base, I always hear how they are just "RINO". So that's two "Liberal Republican" out of all the Republicans in Congress. Quite a bit of ideological diversity going on there.

That's another thing too. You always hear the phrase RINO being thrown around by Conservatives, yet almost never hear the phrase DINO. Ideological purity is only important in the GOP.

Yeah...............ideological purity is what gave us the Purtians and the Salem Witch Trials.

 

[CitizenPained]

Is it wrong if Obama has religious reasons for being against same sex marriage or are religious views and liberalism not compatible?

Like I said. It's about how you act. I mean, I'm Jewish (an atheist one, but whatever) and I vote Democrat along with 75 per cent of my fellow Jews. A Republican Jew just sounds weird when I say it aloud. Israel is really secular (and has plenty of social programs to make a Republican suicidal) and it's 70 per cent Jewish.

You can be religious and liberal.

Can you be liberal and against same sex marriage?

I think we've already established that catch-all labels aren't good.

But if I were President, I wouldn't deny gay couples marriage. SCOTUS has already said that marriage was a right and I don't see any reason to deny it on the basis of sexuality.

Like I said, you can be liberal on some things and not others...that's why those polls always have a spectrum of categories. I think I'm a New Democrat, whatever that means.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Well, if we're going to Wiki Academy here, I'd like to offer some food for thought.

1. I believe that a two parent household is better than a single parent one (most of the time).

2. I believe that people should realize their full potential and be contributing members of society.

3. I cringe when people say they don't vote or try to eschew jury duty.

4. I think Pride Parades are more about sex and costumes and less about political jurisprudence. I ******* hate them.


I also vote Democrat, support a right to a good public education, think that teachers are underpaid, would like to see the playing field evened a bit for the poor, and feel that same sex marriage is not detrimental to society. I recycle, I donate to charity, I'm a member of the Junior League, and was a card-carrying member of SEIU.

Social conservative? Depends on which way you're peering at the bell jar.

Do you believe the government should regulate any of that?

Involving the government is the difference between a liberal and a conservative.

Uh, I just said public education, teacher pay, gay marriage...?

What you said is not true. The government has an interest in promoting certain social values.

Like I said, the real difference between a liberal and a conservative is the willingness to involve the government in their goals. Liberals, if you look at history, oppose government involvement in people's lives. If you really want to be a liberal you should consider that part of your position. If you want to be a progressive that will ultimately support fascism in the name of making the world better, feel free to call yourself a progressive. What you really are is a statist.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Your problem is that you have no idea where the center is.

Because everything fell apart.

//badda-bing

The only thing that fell apart is the fact that the 60s liberals grew into the 90s progressive statists.

 

[CitizenPained]

Do you believe the government should regulate any of that?

Involving the government is the difference between a liberal and a conservative.

Uh, I just said public education, teacher pay, gay marriage...?

What you said is not true. The government has an interest in promoting certain social values.

Like I said, the real difference between a liberal and a conservative is the willingness to involve the government in their goals. Liberals, if you look at history, oppose government involvement in people's lives. If you really want to be a liberal you should consider that part of your position. If you want to be a progressive that will ultimately support fascism in the name of making the world better, feel free to call yourself a progressive. What you really are is a statist.

I'm sorry, you are confusing our politics with classic republicanism. Political Philosophy 101 is down the hall.

 

[snjmom]

Unmistakably, the Institution of Marriage in America is in great crisis:


Slavery had a disastrous impact on African-American families, yet sadly a child born into slavery in 1860 was more likely to be raised by his mother and father in a two-parent household than was an AfricanAmerican baby born after the election of the USA‟s first African-American President.3

LBJ‟s 1965 War on Poverty was triggered in part by the famous “Moynihan Report” finding that the black out-of-wedlock birthrate had hit 26%; today, the white rate exceeds that, the overall rate is 41%, and over 70% of African-American babies are born to single parents 4 – a prime sociological indicator for poverty, pathology and prison regardless of race or ethnicity.5

About one million U.S. children suffer through divorce each year – the outcome of about half of all first marriages and about 60 percent of remarriages, disproportionately affecting economically-vulnerable families.6

The taxpayer-borne social costs of family fragmentation exceeds $112 billion per year, especially when all costs to the justice system are recognized.7

Social protections, especially for women and children, have been evaporating as we have collectively “debased the currency” of marriage. This debasement continues as a function of adultery; “quickie divorce;” physical and verbal spousal abuse; non-committal co-habitation; exemplary infidelity and “unwed cheating” among celebrities, sports figures and politicians; anti-scientific bias which holds, in complete absence of empirical proof, that non-heterosexual inclinations are genetically determined, irresistible and akin to innate traits like race, gender and eye color; as well as anti-scientific bias which holds, against all empirical evidence, that homosexual behavior in particular, and sexual promiscuity in general, optimizes individual or public health.8

Let me get this straight.

It's better to be a slave in a two parent family, than a free person in a single parent family.

If low-income single parents married, their children would stay out of jail.

An "economically vulnerable" (whatever the hell that is supposed to mean) family shouldn't get divorced for economic reasons.

Where do I begin with the bogus footnote for this number?

americanvalues
According to their source, Wyoming has the least problem, while Wyoming's own numbers reflect an almost exact 3% correlation with national numbers.
Wyoming

I believe she forgot that this relates to happily married people. The stats aren't so rosy for folks trapped in a legal contract to someone they have grown to hate.

Being married stops spousal abuse, adultery, genetics have no effect on sexuality and homosexuality is a subset of promiscuity.

Yeah, that's why they want to get married. To increase promiscuity.

What rubbish. Just for grins, does she refute the Surrendered Wives movement in the same breath as she does Sharia Law?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

She is far left.

Your problem is that you have no idea where the center is.

That's your problem, not mine.

She supports the Death Penalty and is a huge proponent of The War on Drugs. She also supports the U.S embargo on Cuba. She supported the War on Iraq invasion.

She voted for the Bush Tax Cut extensions in 2011. She backed McCain in 2008.

Olympia Snowe on the Issues

She opposed the Health Care Reform bill. She's voted yes several times on proposals to constitutionally ban burning the flag. She voted in 1996 to ban Gay Marriage. In October of 2001 she voted to loosen restrictions on cell phone wiretapping.

She voted no for background checks at gun shows.

She voted with Republican Party 62.9% of the time including 326 votes. (Sep 2007) but that somehow makes her far left? You're out of your tree.

Again.

I am talking about social liberals, not classical liberals, or even the type of liberal you think you are, which is not a liberal at all. I have made that plain from the start, and you keep trying to mix in progressive ideals and try to force me to accept your parameters for the discussion. I have been doing this a lot longer than you, and am not going to be distracted by your constant attempts to derail the discussion into something else.

 

[Kuros]

Well, if we're going to Wiki Academy here, I'd like to offer some food for thought.

1. I believe that a two parent household is better than a single parent one (most of the time).

2. I believe that people should realize their full potential and be contributing members of society.

3. I cringe when people say they don't vote or try to eschew jury duty.

4. I think Pride Parades are more about sex and costumes and less about political jurisprudence. I ******* hate them.


I also vote Democrat, support a right to a good public education, think that teachers are underpaid, would like to see the playing field evened a bit for the poor, and feel that same sex marriage is not detrimental to society. I recycle, I donate to charity, I'm a member of the Junior League, and was a card-carrying member of SEIU.

Social conservative? Depends on which way you're peering at the bell jar.

Do you believe the government should regulate any of that?

Involving the government is the difference between a liberal and a conservative.

Uh, I just said public education, teacher pay, gay marriage...?

What you said is not true. The government has an interest in promoting certain social values.

I would say: the courts are duty-bound to protect our fundamental liberties. The government has little place in promoting social values outside of that, and the term "interest" is either too strong, if we are talking about legislation (outside that pursuant to Sec. 5 of the 14th Amendment), or too weak if we are talking about constitutionally protected civil liberties.

 

[Modbert]

Again.

I am talking about social liberals, not classical liberals, or even the type of liberal you think you are, which is not a liberal at all. I have made that plain from the start, and you keep trying to mix in progressive ideals and try to force me to accept your parameters for the discussion. I have been doing this a lot longer than you, and am not going to be distracted by your constant attempts to derail the discussion into something else.

The only one trying to derail the discussion is yourself. Someone who votes with the Republicans 62.9% of the time is not far left, simple as that.

The issue here is you think you have a monopoly on how to define terms.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Ladies and gentlemen, I would like to remind you that for safety purposes, we ask that you please keep your hands inside the bus at all times while Modbert moves goalposts. Thank you.

He does keep trying. Unfortunately for him, most of the world is older than he is, and has seen it before.

 

[Modbert]

He does keep trying. Unfortunately for him, most of the world is older than he is, and has seen it before.

It's pretty sad you have to keep resorting to attacking me personally when you have no argument. You did it earlier when I kept proving you wrong about the usage of DINO and ended up saying "I see it more in my personal life" when you couldn't come up with any definitive proof outside of yahoo answers of all things.