Azov Battalion Accuses Russia Of Chemical Attacks In Mariupol, As WP & Poison Gas Allegations Fly

[RodISHI]

Ukraine on Fire: The Real Story - Full Documentary by Oliver Stone (Original English version)

I watched this yesterday and researched all the people mentioned plus others connected, their party affiliation, etc. along with reading some reviews on it. Nothing justifies Russia bombing or invading Ukraine previously or now. I was not wrong about Russia's previous puppet that the people wanted out in 2014; and to top that all off your film producer/durector Igor is an anti-American Russian propagandist who has dual citizenship in the US and Russia. How the f' he became a citizen is beyond me and personally I think he should be charged with sedition and treason, tried and then tossed the f' out of the country. Dual citizenship should be illegal to begin with and US citixens should be pushing for the legislators to get'r done. Per Oliver Stone he is a Putin propagandist who if isn't out right lying he's twisting truth or lying by omission to suit his agendas it is that plan and simple.

Today I will be watching a more accurate Ukraine documentary of the 2014 revelation events that interviews the people of Ukraine from 2014 and doing some more research into the people who are still in the government that were there in 2014 or involved.



People looking into this all should also know about Putin following the Stalinistic tactics that, "the horrors of Soviet policy in Ukraine, specifically Stalin’s mass starvation of Ukraine from 1932 to 1933. Such was the famine’s devastation that Ukrainian émigré publications coined a new word to describe its barbarity: “Holodomor,” a combination of the Ukrainian words for hunger (holod) and extermination (mor). "

Why Stalin Starved Ukraine

Anne Applebaum's new book tells of an atrocity and cover-up that shape today's politics.

newrepublic.com

 

[MisterBeale]

I watched this yesterday and researched all the people mentioned plus others connected, their party affiliation, etc. along with reading some reviews on it. Nothing justifies Russia bombing or invading Ukraine previously or now. I was not wrong about Russia's previous puppet that the people wanted out in 2014; and to top that all off your film producer/durector Igor is an anti-American Russian propagandist who has dual citizenship in the US and Russia. How the f' he became a citizen is beyond me and personally I think he should be charged with sedition and treason, tried and then tossed the f' out of the country. Dual citizenship should be illegal to begin with and US citixens should be pushing for the legislators to get'r done. Per Oliver Stone he is a Putin propagandist who if isn't out right lying he's twisting truth or lying by omission to suit his agendas it is that plan and simple.

Today I will be watching a more accurate Ukraine documentary of the 2014 revelation events that interviews the people of Ukraine from 2014 and doing some more research into the people who are still in the government that were there in 2014 or involved.



People looking into this all should also know about Putin following the Stalinistic tactics that, "the horrors of Soviet policy in Ukraine, specifically Stalin’s mass starvation of Ukraine from 1932 to 1933. Such was the famine’s devastation that Ukrainian émigré publications coined a new word to describe its barbarity: “Holodomor,” a combination of the Ukrainian words for hunger (holod) and extermination (mor). "

Why Stalin Starved Ukraine

Anne Applebaum's new book tells of an atrocity and cover-up that shape today's politics.

newrepublic.com

I appreciate your POV.

Folks of course, can take what ever view they want. I would, like, however, to know what specific facts you take umbrage on.

I have already watched the Netflix one. I found it relied too much on emotional narratives rather than facts. You will want to have closed caption English subtitles on for it if you don't speak Russian.

Just because someone has a joint citizenry, and has an interest and specific knowledge in a subject, does not necessarily mean they are getting facts wrong, that is an ad hom fallacy.

If you can point to facts that are material wrong, sure, I can understand that.

I never believe anything at face value, I look for secondary confirmation. Of course, we have material evidence in the form of Victoria Nuland's leaked phone call, and that taped video of her conferencing with corporate heads. . . we are talking corporatism/fascism in our own nation as motive here.

These are among some of the articles that Consortium News picked up, by a variety of independent journalists, confirming the narrative of Stone's documentary.

I just don't trust CFR media, for the same reasons that you don't. . . and Netflix? Obama is on the board of directors, and it is a CFR source, they will spin the facts and tell a yarn that is advantageous to the military-industrial-complex. They WANT to spend taxpayer money, giving it to that Ukrainian dictator rather than to small farms, small business, schools, road, and other things American work for. Weapons for foreigners to not help Americans one bit, IMO.

Who's Telling the 'Big Lie' on Ukraine?

Exclusive: Official Washington draws the Ukraine crisis in black-and-white colors with Russian President Putin the bad guy and the U.S.-backed leaders in Kiev the good guys. But the reality is much more nuanced, with the American people consistently misled on key facts, writes Robert Parry. By Ro

consortiumnews.com

Ukraine's Inconvenient Neo-Nazis

Exclusive: When Ukrainian neo-Nazis infuriated over the killing of an ultranationalist leader surrounded the Parliament in Kiev, the incident presented a problem for the U.S. news media which has been trying to airbrush the neo-Nazis out of the Ukraine narrative, Robert Parry reports. By Robert P

consortiumnews.com

Corporate Interests Behind Ukraine Putsch

Behind the U.S.-backed coup that ousted the democratically elected president of Ukraine are the economic interests of giant corporations from Cargill to Chevron which see the country as a potential “gold mine” of profits from agricultural and energy exploitation, reports JP Sottile. By JP Sottile

consortiumnews.com

The Mess that Nuland Made

Exclusive: Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland engineered Ukraine’s “regime change” in early 2014 without weighing the likely chaos and consequences. Now, as neo-Nazis turn their guns on the government, it’s hard to see how anyone can clean up the mess that Nuland ma

consortiumnews.com

(BTW. . . I remember reading an article, when Biden won, and started making is cabinet, and he put Nuland back in there? I thought to myself, oh shit, we are going to have a war in Ukraine. ) Yup.

U.S. House Admits Nazi Role in Ukraine

Exclusive: The U.S. House of Representatives has admitted an ugly truth that the U.S. mainstream media has tried to hide from the American people that the post-coup regime in Ukraine has relied heavily on Nazi storm troopers to carry out its bloody war against ethnic Russians, reports Robert Parry.

consortiumnews.com

A Nazi Skeleton in the Family Closet

Exclusive: Canada’s fiercely anti-Russian Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland says her Ukrainian grandfather struggled “to return freedom and democracy to Ukraine,” but she leaves out that he was a Nazi propagandist justifying the slaughter of Jews, writes Arina Tsukanova. By Arina Tsukanova On

consortiumnews.com

The Buried Maidan Massacre and Its Misrepresentation by the West

The new Ukrainian government is faced with reopening an inquiry into evidence of an organized mass killing in Kiev that Poroshenko stonewalled. Ivan Katchanovski investigates. By Ivan Katchanovski Special to Consortium News Five years ago, the Maidan massacre in Kiev, Ukraine, of Feb. 18-20, 2014

consortiumnews.com

Winner of the 2015 I.F. Stone Medal from Harvard’s Nieman Foundation​

Dual citizenship should be illegal to begin with and US citixens should be pushing for the legislators to get'r done.

I couldn't agree more. I thought when they originally made the ruling for duel citizenship? It was the most biased and racist thing I had ever read.

The first person ever to apply for it, was a Mexican. When some war broke out, I forget which one, he fled to Mexico, to avoid the draft. . . then? When it was over, he came back. He wanted to have both American and Mexican citizenship. When he sued to get his American citizenship back, the judge was outraged, and probably rightly so. . . the legal reasoning, which I still think holds true today, is you can't serve two masters.

Fast forward to after WWII. . . and some Israeli brings to court HIS desire to keep his Israeli citizenship, and still obtain a US citizenship. . . he gets put in front of a Jewish judge. Well. . . so much for stare decisis and "you can't serve two masters." Hell, if it weren't for the fact that the constitution has a prohibition against folks serving in government from possessing titles, we might have British nobles in our government.

Anyway. . . if we disallowed duel citizens, we might have to kick a lot of folks out of government, or they would have to renounce their other allegiance. . . .

Past and Present:

Members in US politics who hold dual US/Israeli citizenship | The Liberty Beacon

www.thelibertybeacon.com

1.Attorney General – Michael Mukasey
2. Head of Homeland Security – Michael Chertoff
3. Chairman Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Richard Perle
4. Deputy Defense Secretary (Former) – Paul Wolfowitz
5. Under Secretary of Defense – Douglas Feith
6. National Security Council Advisor – Elliott Abrams
7. Vice President Dick Cheney’s Chief of Staff (Former) – “Scooter” Libby
8. White House Deputy Chief of Staff – Joshua Bolten
9. Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs – Marc Grossman
10. Director of Policy Planning at the State Department – Richard Haass
11. U.S. Trade Representative (Cabinet-level Position) – Robert Zoellick
12. Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – James Schlesinger
13. UN Representative (Former) – John Bolton
14. Under Secretary for Arms Control – David Wurmser
15. Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Eliot Cohen
16. Senior Advisor to the President – Steve Goldsmith
17. Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary – Christopher Gersten
18. Assistant Secretary of State – Lincoln Bloomfield
19. Deputy Assistant to the President – Jay Lefkowitz
20. White House Political Director – Ken Melman
21. National Security Study Group – Edward Luttwak
22. Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Kenneth Adelman
23. Defense Intelligence Agency Analyst (Former) – Lawrence (Larry) Franklin
24. National Security Council Advisor – Robert Satloff
25. President Export-Import Bank U.S. – Mel Sembler
26. Deputy Assistant Secretary, Administration for Children and Families – Christopher Gersten
27. Assistant Secretary of Housing and Urban Development for Public Affairs – Mark Weinberger
28. White House Speechwriter – David Frum
29. White House Spokesman (Former) – Ari Fleischer
30. Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Henry Kissinger
31. Deputy Secretary of Commerce – Samuel Bodman
32. Under Secretary of State for Management – Bonnie Cohen
33. Director of Foreign Service Institute – Ruth Davis


Current members as best I could find:
Senate:
•Senator Barbara Boxer (California)
•Senator Benjamin Cardin (Maryland)
•Senator Russ Feingold (Wisconsin)
•Senator Al Franken (Minnesota)
•Senator Dianne Feinstein (California)
•Senator Herb Kohl (Wisconsin)
•Senator Frank Lautenberg (New Jersey)
•Senator Joe Lieberman (Connecticut) (Independent)
•Senator Carl Levin (Michigan)
•Senator Bernard Sanders (Vermont) (Independent)
•Senator Charles Schumer (New York)
•Senator Ron Wyden (Oregon)


House of Representatives:
•Representative Gary Ackerman (New York)
•Representative John H. Adler (New Jersey)
•Representative Shelley Berkley (Nevada)
•Representative Howard Berman (California)
•Representative Steve Cohen (Tennessee)
•Representative Susan Davis (California)
•Representative Eliot Engel (New York)
•Representative Bob Filner (California)
•Representative Barney Frank (Massachusetts)
•Representative Gabrielle Giffords (Arizona)
•Representative Alan Grayson (Florida)
•Representative Jane Harman (California)
•Representative Paul Hodes (New Hampshire)
•Representative Steve Israel (New York)
•Representative Steve Kagen (Wisconsin)
•Representative Ronald Klein (Florida)
•Representative Sander Levin (Michigan)
•Representative Nita Lowey (New York)
•Representative Jerry Nadler (New York)
•Representative Jared Polis (Colorado)
•Representative Steve Rothman (New Jersey)
•Representative Jan Schakowsky (Illinois)
•Representative Adam Schiff (California)
•Representative Allyson Schwartz (Pennsylvania)
•Representative Brad Sherman (California)
•Representative Debbie Wasserman Schultz (Florida)
•Representative Henry Waxman (California)
•Representative Anthony Weiner (New York)
•Representative John Yarmuth (Kentucky)

 

[RodISHI]

Anyway. . . if we disallowed duel citizens, we might have to kick a lot of folks out of government, or they would have to renounce their other allegiance. . . .

Past and Present:

Members in US politics who hold dual US/Israeli citizenship | The Liberty Beacon

www.thelibertybeacon.com

1.Attorney General – Michael Mukasey
2. Head of Homeland Security – Michael Chertoff
3. Chairman Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Richard Perle
4. Deputy Defense Secretary (Former) – Paul Wolfowitz
5. Under Secretary of Defense – Douglas Feith
6. National Security Council Advisor – Elliott Abrams
7. Vice President Dick Cheney’s Chief of Staff (Former) – “Scooter” Libby
8. White House Deputy Chief of Staff – Joshua Bolten
9. Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs – Marc Grossman
10. Director of Policy Planning at the State Department – Richard Haass
11. U.S. Trade Representative (Cabinet-level Position) – Robert Zoellick
12. Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – James Schlesinger
13. UN Representative (Former) – John Bolton
14. Under Secretary for Arms Control – David Wurmser
15. Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Eliot Cohen
16. Senior Advisor to the President – Steve Goldsmith
17. Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary – Christopher Gersten
18. Assistant Secretary of State – Lincoln Bloomfield
19. Deputy Assistant to the President – Jay Lefkowitz
20. White House Political Director – Ken Melman
21. National Security Study Group – Edward Luttwak
22. Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Kenneth Adelman
23. Defense Intelligence Agency Analyst (Former) – Lawrence (Larry) Franklin
24. National Security Council Advisor – Robert Satloff
25. President Export-Import Bank U.S. – Mel Sembler
26. Deputy Assistant Secretary, Administration for Children and Families – Christopher Gersten
27. Assistant Secretary of Housing and Urban Development for Public Affairs – Mark Weinberger
28. White House Speechwriter – David Frum
29. White House Spokesman (Former) – Ari Fleischer
30. Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Henry Kissinger
31. Deputy Secretary of Commerce – Samuel Bodman
32. Under Secretary of State for Management – Bonnie Cohen
33. Director of Foreign Service Institute – Ruth Davis


Current members as best I could find:
Senate:
•Senator Barbara Boxer (California)
•Senator Benjamin Cardin (Maryland)
•Senator Russ Feingold (Wisconsin)
•Senator Al Franken (Minnesota)
•Senator Dianne Feinstein (California)
•Senator Herb Kohl (Wisconsin)
•Senator Frank Lautenberg (New Jersey)
•Senator Joe Lieberman (Connecticut) (Independent)
•Senator Carl Levin (Michigan)
•Senator Bernard Sanders (Vermont) (Independent)
•Senator Charles Schumer (New York)
•Senator Ron Wyden (Oregon)


House of Representatives:
•Representative Gary Ackerman (New York)
•Representative John H. Adler (New Jersey)
•Representative Shelley Berkley (Nevada)
•Representative Howard Berman (California)
•Representative Steve Cohen (Tennessee)
•Representative Susan Davis (California)
•Representative Eliot Engel (New York)
•Representative Bob Filner (California)
•Representative Barney Frank (Massachusetts)
•Representative Gabrielle Giffords (Arizona)
•Representative Alan Grayson (Florida)
•Representative Jane Harman (California)
•Representative Paul Hodes (New Hampshire)
•Representative Steve Israel (New York)
•Representative Steve Kagen (Wisconsin)
•Representative Ronald Klein (Florida)
•Representative Sander Levin (Michigan)
•Representative Nita Lowey (New York)
•Representative Jerry Nadler (New York)
•Representative Jared Polis (Colorado)
•Representative Steve Rothman (New Jersey)
•Representative Jan Schakowsky (Illinois)
•Representative Adam Schiff (California)
•Representative Allyson Schwartz (Pennsylvania)
•Representative Brad Sherman (California)
•Representative Debbie Wasserman Schultz (Florida)
•Representative Henry Waxman (California)
•Representative Anthony Weiner (New York)
•Representative John Yarmuth (Kentucky)

I suppose they will have to make a choice on where they desire to keep their loyalties.


Per the Stone video, what Ukraine faces today, etc. It would take some time to get and put in all the links to the people and their ties, stated objectives, actions, etc.. that I looked at while the video played. I simply am not going to go through all that for a post here at USMB as people will have to decide for themselves after it is all said and done anyhow.

Per the video I linked. As I've mentioned before Rod also does a lot of research and he keeps up on current events well. He watched a CIA guy that said no doubt that they were there and they encouraged people initially but the whole movement took on a life of its own. What kind of a president would set snipers out to shoot unarmed protesting young people? Per the CIA and our government I cannot say I agree with all that transpires and I have no doubt some of the large corporates need a good cleaning and limitations. Part of that problem is the people themselves who gave over their own retirement futures for others to control- excuses given of too big to fail should never apply in this country.

I also question how many of Putin's thugs were doing in all that in Kiev to keep people busy ans inflammation going while he signed over the Crimea to himself to rule over?

And Russia also lost out in the aspect of spiritually ruling over the people of Ukraine too. Darn good deal IMO. The Russian version has been telling Put' he's backed by God invading Ukraine in this last bunch of shit he's pulling. Talk about false prophets and anti-christs. https://www.google.com/search?clien...church+encourages+Putin+that+God+supports+him

The explainer: The split in Ukraine's Orthodox Church

In October 2018, the Ukrainian Orthodox Church officially split from its Russian counterpart, after more than 300 years. We explain why, and what it means for Ukrainian Christians today.

emerging-europe.com

In October 2018, the Ukrainian Orthodox Church officially split from its Russian counterpart, after more than 300 years.

The decision, which was approved by the Patriarchate of Constantinople, the symbolic “first among equals” of the world’s Orthodox churches, triggered a major fallout within the Orthodox world, possibly the most serious in 1,000 years.

The same month the declaration was made, the Russian Orthodox Church announced that it would break off relations with the Patriarchate.

The process was ratified in a ceremony in Istanbul on Orthodox Christmas Eve, 2019, when the Metropolitan of Kyiv, the young Epiphanus I received Tomos from the Constantinople Patriarchate. The document granted autocephaly to the newly-formed and newly-recognised Orthodox Church of Ukraine.

For Ukraine, this was a major moment, as it represented another step in breaking away from political, economic and religious subservience to Russia.

In Russia meanwhile, alarm bells were going off. Ukraine has the world’s third largest Orthodox Christian population, after only Russia and Ethiopia, and roughly 12,000 of the Russian Orthodox Church’s 36,000 parishes were in Ukraine.

As a result of the split, the Russian Orthodox Church stands to lose much of its territory, believers and, crucially, its spiritual and symbolic authority over Ukraine. Both Russian President Vladimir Putin and Patriarch Kirill made strong statements condemning the schism.

 

[Ringo]

 

[badger2]

I watched this yesterday and researched all the people mentioned plus others connected, their party affiliation, etc. along with reading some reviews on it. Nothing justifies Russia bombing or invading Ukraine previously or now. I was not wrong about Russia's previous puppet that the people wanted out in 2014; and to top that all off your film producer/durector Igor is an anti-American Russian propagandist who has dual citizenship in the US and Russia. How the f' he became a citizen is beyond me and personally I think he should be charged with sedition and treason, tried and then tossed the f' out of the country. Dual citizenship should be illegal to begin with and US citixens should be pushing for the legislators to get'r done. Per Oliver Stone he is a Putin propagandist who if isn't out right lying he's twisting truth or lying by omission to suit his agendas it is that plan and simple.

Today I will be watching a more accurate Ukraine documentary of the 2014 revelation events that interviews the people of Ukraine from 2014 and doing some more research into the people who are still in the government that were there in 2014 or involved.



People looking into this all should also know about Putin following the Stalinistic tactics that, "the horrors of Soviet policy in Ukraine, specifically Stalin’s mass starvation of Ukraine from 1932 to 1933. Such was the famine’s devastation that Ukrainian émigré publications coined a new word to describe its barbarity: “Holodomor,” a combination of the Ukrainian words for hunger (holod) and extermination (mor). "

Why Stalin Starved Ukraine

Anne Applebaum's new book tells of an atrocity and cover-up that shape today's politics.

newrepublic.com

The judaeo-christian-relic-soldier pathology is now a serious problem in Ukraine when the country's males are being held hostage by the nazis and Archbishops mouth off from the UK around pagan easter about migrants.

Zelenskiy: Ukraine Will Fight Russia for Ten Years

Ukraine can fight Russia ‘for 10 years’ – Zelensky

The Ukrainian president said his country will not give up any territory and is prepared to fight Russia “for 10 years”

www.rt.com

Kiev Orders Azov Nazis to Shoot Those Surrendering at Azovstal

https://sputniknews.com/20220417/kiev-orders-azov-nazis-to-shoot-those-surrendering-at-azovstal-russian-mod-says-10948833116.html

 

[badger2]

Kiev Orders Azov Nazis to Shoot Those Surrendering at Azovstal, Russian MoD Says

MOSCOW (Sputnik) - Kiev ordered the Ukrainian neo-Nazi battalion Azov to shoot those who choose to lay down their arms to the Russian military at the Azovstal plant in Mariupol, the Russian Defence Ministry Igor Konashenkov said on Sunday.

sputniknews.com

 

[RodISHI]

The judaeo-christian-relic-soldier pathology is now a serious problem in Ukraine when the country's males are being held hostage by the nazis and Archbishops mouth off from the UK around pagan easter about migrants.

Zelenskiy: Ukraine Will Fight Russia for Ten Years

Ukraine can fight Russia ‘for 10 years’ – Zelensky

The Ukrainian president said his country will not give up any territory and is prepared to fight Russia “for 10 years”

www.rt.com

Kiev Orders Azov Nazis to Shoot Those Surrendering at Azovstal

https://sputniknews.com/20220417/kiev-orders-azov-nazis-to-shoot-those-surrendering-at-azovstal-russian-mod-says-10948833116.html

Hopefully Russia won't last ten years or even ten weeks for that matter.

The one's who are surrounding Mariupol are the Russians not Ukrainian troops. I watched a report earlier that Rod had been watching; two women escaped from Mariupol but many didn't they said. They also said Russians shot at their cars as they fled and they had to go through Russia and felt very fortunate to finally get out of there and into Estonia. They also mentioned being "liberated by Russia"; meant they were liberated from their homes, their belonging and their jobs. They escaped with the clothes on their backs and that was all.

You can try as much propaganda as you desire to push about how Christians being nazi but it won't stick. Those millions who peacefully protested in 2014 are now those who are grown up with families of their own who Russia has left little choice but to fight back against the Russian style "liberation".

 

[badger2]

"In the case of further resistance, all of them will be destroyed.
(Maj. Gen. Konashenkov)

Russia Publishes Data on Foreign Mercenaries in Ukraine

Russia publishes data on foreign mercenaries in Ukraine

Russian troops have killed 1,035 out of nearly 7,000 foreign mercenaries fighting for Ukraine, the Ministry of Defense in Moscow stated

www.rt.com

 

[para bellum]

They WANT to spend taxpayer money, giving it to that Ukrainian dictator rather than to small farms, small business, schools, road, and other things American work for.

I get the sentiment, but I don't understand the characterization of Zelensky.

We didn't install him- we installed Poroshenko. Poroshenko was our puppet- Zelensky beat him in a free election in 2019. He was also given a majority in the Parliament.

He's had his problems, including being dragged into the democrat's attempt to oust Trump, dealing with an ongoing war in the Donbas, plus covid, and now a full-scale invasion of Ukraine.

He was never a NATO puppet- after the invasion he had to go hat-in-hand to anyone who will help. NATO or otherwise. He's done a pretty good job of that, I think.

Is he beholden to an oligarch? Yep. Just like every other politician in Ukraine. The newspaper in Kiev used to list the names of MP's and the oligarchs who controlled them.

No secret there is political corruption, but Zelensky was still popularly elected, he's not a dictator.

 

[justoffal]

I watched this yesterday and researched all the people mentioned plus others connected, their party affiliation, etc. along with reading some reviews on it. Nothing justifies Russia bombing or invading Ukraine previously or now. I was not wrong about Russia's previous puppet that the people wanted out in 2014; and to top that all off your film producer/durector Igor is an anti-American Russian propagandist who has dual citizenship in the US and Russia. How the f' he became a citizen is beyond me and personally I think he should be charged with sedition and treason, tried and then tossed the f' out of the country. Dual citizenship should be illegal to begin with and US citixens should be pushing for the legislators to get'r done. Per Oliver Stone he is a Putin propagandist who if isn't out right lying he's twisting truth or lying by omission to suit his agendas it is that plan and simple.

Today I will be watching a more accurate Ukraine documentary of the 2014 revelation events that interviews the people of Ukraine from 2014 and doing some more research into the people who are still in the government that were there in 2014 or involved.



People looking into this all should also know about Putin following the Stalinistic tactics that, "the horrors of Soviet policy in Ukraine, specifically Stalin’s mass starvation of Ukraine from 1932 to 1933. Such was the famine’s devastation that Ukrainian émigré publications coined a new word to describe its barbarity: “Holodomor,” a combination of the Ukrainian words for hunger (holod) and extermination (mor). "

Why Stalin Starved Ukraine

Anne Applebaum's new book tells of an atrocity and cover-up that shape today's politics.

newrepublic.com

Ukraine is in the fire because NATO is using them as a human shield....that's about 90 percent of it.

 

[justoffal]

I get the sentiment, but I don't understand the characterization of Zelensky.

We didn't install him- we installed Poroshenko. Poroshenko was our puppet- Zelensky beat him in a free election in 2019. He was also given a majority in the Parliament.

He's had his problems, including being dragged into the democrat's attempt to oust Trump, dealing with an ongoing war in the Donbas, plus covid, and now a full-scale invasion of Ukraine.

He was never a NATO puppet- after the invasion he had to go hat-in-hand to anyone who will help. NATO or otherwise. He's done a pretty good job of that, I think.

Is he beholden to an oligarch? Yep. Just like every other politician in Ukraine. The newspaper in Kiev used to list the names of MP's and the oligarchs who controlled them.

No secret there is political corruption, but Zelensky was still popularly elected, he's not a dictator.

Yeah his election looked a lot like Biden's....lots of Soros bucks.

 

[para bellum]

Yeah his election looked a lot like Biden's....lots of Soros bucks.

I don't know if Soros was involved or not. If you said lots of "oligarch's bucks", I'd say "naturally".

I know that Trump wasn't running color revolutions all around the world though.
I know Trump was cautious about releasing all the aid the the Congress had promised because he was worried about where it was going.
And Dems accused him of extorting Zelensky over it, which isn't the way you would treat a puppet.

I also know Zelensky got 73% of the vote and his party got a majority in the Parliament on an anti-corruption platform.

So maybe he is a Soros puppet, I don't know. But he isn't a US/NATO puppet, because he defeated the US/NATO puppet in his election in 2019.

And Biden did try to get him to capitulate on Feb. 25. That's not really how empires treat their puppet regimes.

You could make that argument with Poroshenko- e.g. blame the US/NATO, for Russia fomenting civil war in the Donbas. That was a response by Putin to overthrowing his guy, Yanukovych.

The moniker just doesn't apply to Zelensky. Trump didn't meddle in other country's elections. He wasn't cozy with Zelensky, and neither has Biden been. Ignoring what has been "approved" (but is a couple years away), maybe 10% of the weapons provided to Ukraine have come from US inventories.

 

[MisterBeale]

I get the sentiment, but I don't understand the characterization of Zelensky.

We didn't install him- we installed Poroshenko. Poroshenko was our puppet- Zelensky beat him in a free election in 2019. He was also given a majority in the Parliament.

He's had his problems, including being dragged into the democrat's attempt to oust Trump, dealing with an ongoing war in the Donbas, plus covid, and now a full-scale invasion of Ukraine.

He was never a NATO puppet- after the invasion he had to go hat-in-hand to anyone who will help. NATO or otherwise. He's done a pretty good job of that, I think.

Is he beholden to an oligarch? Yep. Just like every other politician in Ukraine. The newspaper in Kiev used to list the names of MP's and the oligarchs who controlled them.

No secret there is political corruption, but Zelensky was still popularly elected, he's not a dictator.

That is like saying US politicians are properly elected.

You clearly do not understand the power of TEE VEE and social media.

The man was literally ON TEE VEE, he was an actor. Just like Trump or Reagan, & some of the folks we have had in congress have been celebrities.

Then it is important to know who backed him to run.

. . . and, once he was in charge, it was important to watch what decisions he made. Banning opposition parties, and destroying all free press, putting the power of the press under state control? Using a corrupt intelligence agency to suppress dissent and carry out extra-judicial assassinations are all the hallmarks of a closed society.

He isn't a lot different than any other brutal dictator that fools the masses into voting for him, and then carries on a regime of brutal oppression.

One of the architects of this, was Victoria Nuland. .. .. anyone that was paying attention, pretty much knew, as soon as Biden named her to his cabinet? That meant this guy was going to get what ever he wanted, and the Azov goblins and regiments of Ukraine were going to go on a genocidal wave in the Donbas.

You clearly haven't looked at all the information out there, just one side of it. . .

 

[para bellum]

That is like saying US politicians are properly elected.

You clearly do not understand the power of TEE VEE and social media.

The man was literally ON TEE VEE, he was an actor. Just like Trump or Reagan, & some of the folks we have had in congress have been celebrities.

Then it is important to know who backed him to run.

. . . and, once he was in charge, it was important to watch what decisions he made. Banning opposition parties, and destroying all free press, putting the power of the press under state control? Using a corrupt intelligence agency to suppress dissent and carry out extra-judicial assassinations are all the hallmarks of a closed society.

He isn't a lot different than any other brutal dictator that fools the masses into voting for him, and then carries on a regime of brutal oppression.

One of the architects of this, was Victoria Nuland. .. .. anyone that was paying attention, pretty much knew, as soon as Biden named her to his cabinet? That meant this guy was going to get what ever he wanted, and the Azov goblins and regiments of Ukraine were going to go on a genocidal wave in the Donbas.

You clearly haven't looked at all the information out there, just one side of it. . .

You're saying Nuland backed Zelensky? Just how do you figure that? Who cares what he was before? We elect a lot of "exotics"- all democratic countries do that from time to time. That makes him a dictator?

Those crackdowns all happened after Russia invaded and Ukraine went under martial law. He did not do those things "once he was in charge". He's been in charge for 3 years.

You are calling the guy a brutal dictator for that? Bullshit.

Biden, Nuland, et al were the ones who backed Poreshenko- Zelensky's predecessor. Not Zelensky. Dems were perfectly happy to throw Zelensky to the wolves in 2020.

The Donbas civil war was created by Putin after the Obama admin's 2014 shenanigans. Zelensky inherited that war, and Russia financed it against him as well as his predecessor.

Yea, the azovs were neo-nazis. Every country has neo-nazis. Russia has more of them than Ukraine. Azovs were something like 900 and were integrated into the national guard. That doesn't make everyone in Ukraine a nazi.

We had detailed plans of the invasion in late November. We could have done a lot more to help Ukraine. I think Biden and Nuland et al would be perfectly fine if Zelensky was out of the picture in Ukraine.

Hell, maybe Biden is still afraid of being exposed for the corruption when he was VP.

Yes, I have not "looked at all" of the information out there- no single person could possibly to that. I look at source information, and information that can be independently corroborated. And I have a few sources that I trust from experience that they have already done their due diligence. And there are lot of propaganda sites that I won't waste time on until the story comes up in more reputable outlet- and I don't care if that is left or right, because I am only using it as a track back to the source- I don't care about the author's opinion.

Zelensky came to power when Trump was POTUS. If Biden and Nuland were working behind the scenes in Ukraine to defeat their guy, it was without the blessings of the US Gov't.

 

[para bellum]

Just to add a point about the press in Ukraine.

A little while back, there was a story about an auto repair shop in Ukraine that was taking guns from Russian IFV's and retrofitting them to be used by the UAF. It was kind of a "feel-good" story. Creative Ukrainians using the attacker's weapons against them, etc.

Well, the shop got identified on Russian social media by the picture in the story. It got hit in an air strike and there were lives lost inside. The war is in their country. If the US was invaded, there would be press controls. Loose lips sink ships.

 

[badger2]

It's not bright to argue anything about dual citizenship while Americans control Ukrainian biolab directorates. An intimate relationship to schizophrenia, what capitalism gives with one hand, it takes away with the other.

3 hr ago Russian Lawmakers Want US Government Officials to Provide Answers About Biolabs in Ukraine

Russian Lawmakers Want US Government Officials to Provide Answers About Biolabs in Ukraine

The Russian Ministry of Defence previously announced the discovery in Ukraine of about 30 biological laboratories funded by the Pentagon.

sputniknews.com

 

[badger2]

Nuland, Rubio, as Helena Glass has pointed out, are the new neo-nazis, produced by CIA-MI6. This hybrid is not hitlerist, but an anamalgam of communism, fascism and marxism. Furthermore, the cocaine addict and clown comes into the picture much too late for serious analysis, since the CIA has been in Ukraine for 70 years.

War in Donbass: Key Moments of Eight-Year Conflict

War in Donbass: Key Moments From Eight-Year Conflict

Eight years ago this week, Kiev kicked off its ‘anti-terrorist operation’ in Donbass. The fiercest battles of the war were fought between 2014 and 2015. After that, the civil conflict turned into a war of position, but troops and civilians...

sputniknews.com

 

[alexa]

I get the sentiment, but I don't understand the characterization of Zelensky.

We didn't install him- we installed Poroshenko. Poroshenko was our puppet- Zelensky beat him in a free election in 2019. He was also given a majority in the Parliament.

He's had his problems, including being dragged into the democrat's attempt to oust Trump, dealing with an ongoing war in the Donbas, plus covid, and now a full-scale invasion of Ukraine.

He was never a NATO puppet- after the invasion he had to go hat-in-hand to anyone who will help. NATO or otherwise. He's done a pretty good job of that, I think.

Is he beholden to an oligarch? Yep. Just like every other politician in Ukraine. The newspaper in Kiev used to list the names of MP's and the oligarchs who controlled them.

No secret there is political corruption, but Zelensky was still popularly elected, he's not a dictator.

Holy Moses para bellum, I did not even know you had put in Poroshenko or how you did it. I found and skimmed a text which said that Zelensky initially was intending on doing what he was elected for and got 76 per cent of the vote for but interactions with Azov forced him to change his mind, I had only skimmed it and of course I cannot now find it. Hah! Here we go

Elected on a platform of de-escalation of hostilities with Russia, Zelensky was determined to enforce the so-called Steinmeier Formula conceived by then-German Foreign Minister Walter Steinmeier which called for elections in the Russian-speaking regions of Donetsk and Lugansk.

In a face-to-face confrontation with militants from the neo-Nazi Azov Battalion who had launched a campaign to sabotage the peace initiative called “No to Capitulation,” Zelensky encountered a wall of obstinacy.

With appeals for disengagement from the frontlines firmly rejected, Zelensky melted down on camera. “I’m the president of this country. I’m 41 years old. I’m not a loser. I came to you and told you: remove the weapons,” Zelensky implored the fighters.

Once video of the stormy confrontation spread across Ukrainian social media channels, Zelensky became the target of an angry backlash.

Andriy Biletsky, the proudly fascist Azov Battalion leader who once pledged to “lead the white races of the world in a final crusade…against Semite-led Untermenschen”, vowed to bring thousands of fighters to Zolote if Zelensky pressed any further. Meanwhile, a parliamentarian from the party of former Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko openly fantasized about Zelensky being blown to bits by a militant’s grenade.

Though Zelensky achieved a minor disengagement, the neo-Nazi paramilitaries escalated their “No Capitulation” campaign. And within months, fighting began to heat up again in Zolote, sparking a new cycle of violations of the Minsk Agreement.

By this point, Azov had been formally incorporated into the Ukrainian military and its street vigilante wing, known as the National Corps, was deployed across the country under the watch of the Ukrainian Interior Ministry, and alongside the National Police. In December 2021, Zelensky would be seen delivering a “Hero of Ukraine” award to a leader of the fascistic Right Sector in a ceremony in Ukraine’s parliament.

A full-scale conflict with Russia was approaching, and the distance between Zelensky and the extremist paramilitaries was closing fast.
...

-But as we will see, Zelensky has not only ceded ground to the neo-Nazis in his midst, he has entrusted them with a front line role in his country’s war against pro-Russian and Russian forces.

How Ukraine’s Jewish president Zelensky made peace with neo-Nazi paramilitaries on front lines of war with Russia - The Grayzone

While Western media deploys Volodymyr Zelensky's Jewish heritage to refute accusations of Nazi influence in Ukraine, the president has ceded to neo-Nazi forces and now depends on them as front line fighters. Back in October 2019, as the war in eastern Ukraine dragged on, Ukrainian President...

thegrayzone.com

Zelensky's Oligarch was funding Azov and the other far right groups.

Max Blumenthal and Esha Krishnaswamy's information here does present him as a dictator.

‘One Less Traitor’: Zelensky Oversees Campaign of Assassination, Kidnapping and Torture of Political Opposition

While claiming to defend democracy, Ukraine’s Volodymyr Zelensky has outlawed his opposition, ordered his rivals’ arrest, and presided over the disappearance and assassination of dissidents across …

williambowles.info

Here is an article on their relationship with the US far right

"Defend the White Race": American Extremists Being Co-Opted by Ukraine's Far-Right - bellingcat

Translations:English (UK)Русский (Россия)Newly uncovered evidence going back to 2015 suggests that the Ukrainian white nationalist Azov movement has been systematically co-opting American right-wing extremists to advance the former’s own international agenda. In audio statements uncovered by...

www.bellingcat.com

Hoy Moses! What is going on!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[para bellum]

...Hoy Moses! What is going on!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When you figure it out let us know.

Those articles are pretty slanted, I didn't go all the way through it. Lots of "anti-zionism" rhetoric, it doesn't really speak to me. Not my cup of tea- the invoking of religion for political reasons.

I'm not a champion of Zelensky, I just note that he did not come to power a a result of US meddling.

RUSI put out a report yesterday that talked a little bit about the FSB's 5th Service activities in Ukraine and Moldova. It might put the purges (both in Ukraine and Russia) in better perspective.

You might also check out the #FSBLetters from @WindsofChange.

Here is the report from RUSI.

https://static.rusi.org/special-report-202204-operation-z-web.pdf

 

[badger2]

CIA in Ukraine for the last 70 years, while MI6 forces hold Zelenskiy hostage and tell him what to say as their puppet, similar to the current CIA puppet, POSPOTUS.