Ayn Rand is right. There is no higher state than

[jillian]

Fascism or Corporatism is essentially theft of wealth by the rich from the poor.

Hair extensions, spinners and malt liquor being prime examples.

so basically you want to spew racist stereotypes in response to his comment?

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Serving other people and a higher cause is bullshit.

Yeah....we've got quite the Hall O' Fame for....

....those types!!

 

[bripat9643]

Ayn Rand was so right she ended up on SS

She paid Social Security taxes all her life, so why shouldn't she collect it?

She had every right to do so.

But its no different than accusing Warren Buffett of being a hypocrite because he wants to raise taxes while he minimizes his own.

No, it isn't the same. Ayn Rand was forced to pay Social Security taxes. On the other hand, Warren Buffet wants to force other people to pay higher taxes even tough he can do so voluntarily but declines to do so.

There's no comparison between on person being forced to do something and another hypocrite who wants to force something on others that he declines to do voluntarily.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

So it's extreme to profit off of ones own labor and to choose not to allow another man to take what you have rightfully earned for yourself?

No, it’s extreme to presume that the above can occur in a vacuum. Indeed, no man is an island – all success is predicated on the contributions of others, such as the public education one receives to become a successful individual. Or the clean water, roads, and other components of public infrastructure that contribute to one’s success, to contribute back to the things which facilitated one’s success is appropriate in the context of the social contract.

 

[Truthmatters]

Ayn Rand was so right she ended up on SS

She paid Social Security taxes all her life, so why shouldn't she collect it?

Exactly, that's alot better than some people who never paid a penny into it and act like they deserve it .

Because she hated the program and touted a philosophy that it harmed people.

Then when she was done lying her ass off she lost all her money and went on SS.

I dont mind she was on SS she paid for it like you said.

She is the one who insulted everyone else who ended up with nothing but SS after a lifetime of work.

Under her own ideas little old ladies like her would jsut starve in the street because they didnt PERFORM well enough in life.

 

[grunt11b]

People who call themselves conservatives today are not looking for common sense or common decency solutions for this nation. Solutions that would benefit their families and their community. They are ideologues who want to dismantle any shred of COMMunity and replace it with SELF interest?

That is not 'conservatism', that is narcissism.


A TRUE liberal...

"Privilege is here, and with privilege goes responsibility. And I think, as your president said, that it must be a source of satisfaction to you that this school's graduates have recognized it. I hope that the students who are here now will also recognize it in the future.

There is inherited wealth in this country and also inherited poverty. And unless the graduates of this college and other colleges like it who are given a running start in life--unless they are willing to put back into our society, those talents, the broad sympathy, the understanding, the compassion--unless they are willing to put those qualities back into the service of the Great Republic, then obviously the presuppositions upon which our democracy are based are bound to be fallible."

President John F. Kennedy
Remarks at Amherst College
October 26, 1963

But that's just it, if JFK where on the Democrat ballot today he would not be electable. The Democrat party has shifted so far left these days Kennedy would be too conservative to be electable today.
Ask yourself this, would you vote JFK today? I know I would.

 

[bripat9643]

You can't come up with an answer, I see.

that *was* an answer. he's laughing at you.

and deservedly so.

That was an answer for morons like you. The laughter is the nervous kind people do when they know they have made a fool of themselves.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Fascism or Corporatism is essentially theft of wealth by the rich from the poor.

Hair extensions, spinners and malt liquor being prime examples.

so basically you want to spew racist stereotypes in response to his comment?

Nope. Basically I want to spew evidence of needless consumerism by the poor which is misconstrued as theft of wealth by corporations providing consumer goods to the market.

 

[grunt11b]

People who call themselves conservatives today are not looking for common sense or common decency solutions for this nation.

They know the solution is the same self-accountable manner in which they live their lives.

Live your life for yourself and your family, not for the sake of someone else or their family. When did that become a bad thing?

 

[Neotrotsky]

Fascism or Corporatism is essentially theft of wealth by the rich from the poor.

The issue is one of statism
Socialism, communism, fascism, crony capitalism are all forms of some level of CPE's
and share little with a true free market system. Fascism depends on and thrives on a large and intrusive gov't or "big gov't", not small.

Indeed
Peter Drucker

"the complete collapse of the belief in the attainability of freedom and equality through Marxism has forced Russia to travel the same road
toward a totalitarian society of un-freedom and inequality which Germany has been following. Not that communism and fascism are essentially the same.
Fascism is the stage reached after communism has proved an illusion, and it has proved as much an illusion in Russia as in pre-Hitler Germany."​

Hayek defined Fascism :

"It is simply collectivism freed from all traces of an individualist tradition which might hamper its realization"
which is one of the potential problems with CPEs and the onset of statism
​

Too often many call for ends with no appreciation
of the means to get there

The US has been some form of crony capitalist system for at least 70 years,
supported by both sides.

 

[Sallow]

Rand was a reactionary hack.

The dogma of ‘Objectivism’ is predicated on the bizarre perception of a society without structure, a utopian fantasy that naively fails to take into consideration the need of social contracts, legal doctrine, and the inevitable manifestation of institutions.

Modernity rendered ‘Objectivism’ irrelevant before its inception.

Social contracts would lead one to believe that two people entered into an agreement. I never agreed for the government to take my money and give it to someone else who did not earn it.

Sure you did..and still do.

Nothing stopping you from leaving the country.

 

[grunt11b]

liberals/socialists hate the fact that someone could invent something trmendous, and keep the idea. they feel that anything of value should stripped via virtual eminent domain, and should immediately and automatically "belong to the people." private enterprise should belong even to those who contribute nothing. the best and brightest should simply be happy to support the state, and their effort to "spread the wealth".

this goes along with what ben franklin said... "when the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic". this concept of course, is still being tested in the aftermath of the deadly perfect storm, of obama, reid and pelosi. i'd say obama's term so far is touch and go, i am convinced that surviving his agenda will be the greatest feat since the civil war, that if he is reelected, we may not.

What a load of crap. Fascists/Conservatives feel that they should be able to use tax payer funds to enrich people at the top with government contracts, grants, loans and tax loop holes. Add in turn over government developed products to private industry that tax payer money paid for..like UNIX. The whole internet was built by the government..who makes money on it?

The Iraqi war represented a huge fleecing of the American tax payer. And private industry benefitted. Look at the contractors. Security contractors hired people trained by the government at tax payer expense, for more then triple what it costs to pay them if they were still in the military.

Fascism or Corporatism is essentially theft of wealth by the rich from the poor.

Something conservatives/fascists wholeheartly support.

That sounds alot like what Obama is doing right now, doesn't it?

 

[Sallow]

Fascism or Corporatism is essentially theft of wealth by the rich from the poor.

The issue is one of statism
Socialism, communism, fascism, crony capitalism are all forms of some level of CPE's
and share little with a true free market system. Fascism depends on and thrives on a large and intrusive gov't or "big gov't", not small.

Indeed
Peter Drucker

"the complete collapse of the belief in the attainability of freedom and equality through Marxism has forced Russia to travel the same road
toward a totalitarian society of un-freedom and inequality which Germany has been following. Not that communism and fascism are essentially the same.
Fascism is the stage reached after communism has proved an illusion, and it has proved as much an illusion in Russia as in pre-Hitler Germany."​

Hayek defined Fascism :

"It is simply collectivism freed from all traces of an individualist tradition which might hamper its realization"
which is one of the potential problems with CPEs and the onset of statism
​

Too often many call for ends with no appreciation
of the means to get there

All governments are "collectivism" in one form or another.

Conservatives wholeheartly support propping up a small elite group of wealthy people.

And it they constantly point to divine mandates to do so.

I don't see any of you two fisted conservative types making your way out to the wild areas of the planet and starting up your own homesteads.

And there are plenty of places to go.

 

[Toro]

She paid Social Security taxes all her life, so why shouldn't she collect it?

She had every right to do so.

But its no different than accusing Warren Buffett of being a hypocrite because he wants to raise taxes while he minimizes his own.

No, it isn't the same. Ayn Rand was forced to pay Social Security taxes. On the other hand, Warren Buffet wants to force other people to pay higher taxes even tough he can do so voluntarily but declines to do so.

There's no comparison between on person being forced to do something and another hypocrite who wants to force something on others that he declines to do voluntarily.

Nope. It's the same.

People will maximize their own behavior within a system while arguing that the system should be changed, even if the change is detrimental to themselves.

Society has a debate about what it wishes to fund and not fund. When a consensus emerges, everyone participates, even those who opposed it. Many people vehemently opposed the war in Iraq, for example. However, their taxes were used to fund a war they greatly opposed.

Besides, Ayn Rand got way more out of Medicare and SS than she put in. If she were consistent with her principles, she would have given back some of the money she received from SS and paid more for her own medical treatment.

 

[grunt11b]

Rand was a reactionary hack.

The dogma of ‘Objectivism’ is predicated on the bizarre perception of a society without structure, a utopian fantasy that naively fails to take into consideration the need of social contracts, legal doctrine, and the inevitable manifestation of institutions.

Modernity rendered ‘Objectivism’ irrelevant before its inception.

Social contracts would lead one to believe that two people entered into an agreement. I never agreed for the government to take my money and give it to someone else who did not earn it.

and i never agreed that my tax money should fund a war of choice based on a lie in iraq.

get a grip and study some political philosophy.

and if this form of government is a problem for you, feel free to move elsewhere. i'm sure they'd be happy to have you among the taliban.

I served and fought for this country, I will stay right where I am. Did you? Or better yet, what have you done that this country has benefited from?
Also, blame the democrats for Iraq, they unanimously voted to allow GW to go to war there. They could have said no, but they didn't.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSwSDvgw5Uc]Democrats, WMD's & The Iraq War - YouTube[/ame]

 

[bripat9643]

So it's extreme to profit off of ones own labor and to choose not to allow another man to take what you have rightfully earned for yourself?

No, it’s extreme to presume that the above can occur in a vacuum. Indeed, no man is an island – all success is predicated on the contributions of others, such as the public education one receives to become a successful individual. Or the clean water, roads, and other components of public infrastructure that contribute to one’s success, to contribute back to the things which facilitated one’s success is appropriate in the context of the social contract.

Your parents payed the taxes that paid for public schools, roads and other "public infrastructure." Furthermore, the actual cost of these items is a small fraction of what we pay in taxes. We all know the bulk of taxes go to tics sucking on the government tit. Building a few roads does not entitle government to financially rape people who work harder than the tics who vote in the politicians.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

a self serving state. Serving other people and a higher cause is bullshit.

The best thing about people who quote Ayn Rand..is the same people don't know what a fucking hypocrite she was. In the end, she suffered financial hardship and need government assistance to pay the bills.

Gee....wouldn't that make HER a.......

..useless parasite??

. . ​

 

[Sallow]

liberals/socialists hate the fact that someone could invent something trmendous, and keep the idea. they feel that anything of value should stripped via virtual eminent domain, and should immediately and automatically "belong to the people." private enterprise should belong even to those who contribute nothing. the best and brightest should simply be happy to support the state, and their effort to "spread the wealth".

this goes along with what ben franklin said... "when the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic". this concept of course, is still being tested in the aftermath of the deadly perfect storm, of obama, reid and pelosi. i'd say obama's term so far is touch and go, i am convinced that surviving his agenda will be the greatest feat since the civil war, that if he is reelected, we may not.

What a load of crap. Fascists/Conservatives feel that they should be able to use tax payer funds to enrich people at the top with government contracts, grants, loans and tax loop holes. Add in turn over government developed products to private industry that tax payer money paid for..like UNIX. The whole internet was built by the government..who makes money on it?

The Iraqi war represented a huge fleecing of the American tax payer. And private industry benefitted. Look at the contractors. Security contractors hired people trained by the government at tax payer expense, for more then triple what it costs to pay them if they were still in the military.

Fascism or Corporatism is essentially theft of wealth by the rich from the poor.

Something conservatives/fascists wholeheartly support.

That sounds alot like what Obama is doing right now, doesn't it?

Like every single other American President before him.

NOW you have a problem with it?

What's changed, exactly?

 

[Neotrotsky]

Fascism or Corporatism is essentially theft of wealth by the rich from the poor.

The issue is one of statism
Socialism, communism, fascism, crony capitalism are all forms of some level of CPE's
and share little with a true free market system. Fascism depends on and thrives on a large and intrusive gov't or "big gov't", not small.

Indeed
Peter Drucker

"the complete collapse of the belief in the attainability of freedom and equality through Marxism has forced Russia to travel the same road
toward a totalitarian society of un-freedom and inequality which Germany has been following. Not that communism and fascism are essentially the same.
Fascism is the stage reached after communism has proved an illusion, and it has proved as much an illusion in Russia as in pre-Hitler Germany."​

Hayek defined Fascism :

"It is simply collectivism freed from all traces of an individualist tradition which might hamper its realization"
which is one of the potential problems with CPEs and the onset of statism
​

Too often many call for ends with no appreciation
of the means to get there

All governments are "collectivism" in one form or another.

Conservatives wholeheartly support propping up a small elite group of wealthy people.

And it they constantly point to divine mandates to do so.

I don't see any of you two fisted conservative types making your way out to the wild areas of the planet and starting up your own homesteads.

And there are plenty of places to go.

Considering that both political parties use corporations to support their power and goals,
makes you argument disingenuous, at best.

We only need to look at Papa Obama's deals with Big Pharma to protect their profit
margins in exchange for support for his faux legacy of PapaObama Care, to see that
it is not the case of just "conservatives"


Speaking of elite groups

It is a shame that Papa Obama denies poor black children from going to
same private school his kids go to, by stopping school vouchers.

You know the "class warfare" stuff would work a lot better
if such an elitist was not in the White House

At least Jimmy Carter sent his kid to public school

 

[OODA_Loop]

Rand should have never driven on a road.