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Average American Pays Less into SS and Medicare than They Receive

expat_panama

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To me the OP means that it works as an insurance policy should.
Social security is nothing like the kind of insurance that's privately run, legal, and profitable --where customers may pay money to avoid risk. Social Security is only able to function because it's forced upon the costumers. That makes it more like the kind of 'insurance' where thugs tell a victum to pay regulary to avoid violence.
 
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Toro

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BUT.........if SS had kept our money invested and not plundered our retirement funds over frivoloties, then the investment would have kept up with inflation and there would be no problem.

I don't think this is quite correct.

SS has always been invested in government bonds and obligations. The funds compound at a blended rate of government bond rates. Generally, the real return on government bonds since interest rates were fully deregulated decades ago have been positive, i.e. they've been above the rate of inflation.

It doesn't matter how what is not there is invested. Much of the money is gone. Raided over the years by the government.

The trusts are comprised of nontradable government liabilities. A Treasury bond is a tradable government liability. If SS bought Treasury government bonds and put them in the trusts, the economics would be the same as they are currently in the trusts.
 

expat_panama

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...Before Social Security, half of senior citizens lived in poverty...
If you care about poor old people lets get to work on helping them instead of wasting money on a failed program.
 

Cuyo

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To me the OP means that it works as an insurance policy should.
Social security is nothing like the kind of insurance that's privately run, legal, and profitable --where customers may pay money to avoid risk. Social Security is only able to function because it's forced upon the costumers. That makes it more like the kind of 'insurance' where thugs tell a victum to pay regulary to avoid violence.

There's no theoretical reason that would be true, unless your alluding to population growth.

And it's hardly mob "Protection," which gives no real "Benefit" at all, except the avoidance of external influence. SS provides an important buffer to aging individuals as their earning capacity decreases.
 

expat_panama

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...Social Security is good for us so we should be grateful and not complain about being forced to pay for something we never asked for but Toro knows is best for us.

My next guess is that Toro hasn't convinced anyone.
You're wrong...
Wrong about what, that I don't want Social Security or that you're not convincing anyone?
 

Truthmatters

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I am not sure what point you are trying to make here.

When I first read this, I have to be concerned with the assertion people will somehow get more out of the system than they put in.

At first blush:

The government does nothing to add value to the dollars it collects.
Therefore it is nothing more than a pass through system with administrative costs.
So, the money going in has to equal the money coming out.
If someone is getting more out than they put in.
Somene else is putting more in than they are getting out.

These are just a few quick thoughts.

I would like to know why you posted the article.

To show that people have been taking out more than they have been putting in. SS and Medicare are supposed to be self-funding. They are not.

So you can use the information anyway you wish.

But your numbers show SS is ok and that its the medical system that is in imbalemce.
 

Cuyo

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...Social Security is good for us so we should be grateful and not complain about being forced to pay for something we never asked for but Toro knows is best for us.

My next guess is that Toro hasn't convinced anyone.
You're wrong...
Wrong about what, that I don't want Social Security or that you're not convincing anyone?

Of course you 'Don't want' Social Security, because you don't need it yet. You're young and you think you're going to live forever.

That's actually WHY it works.
 

Truthmatters

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they will on average pay $598,000 in SS taxes and receive $556,000 in SS benefits
 

expat_panama

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...If you care about poor old people lets get to work on helping them instead of wasting money on a failed program.
50% reduced to 10%, with a $2.7T surplus last I checked. Failed, indeed.
That's exactly what I mean. You say you care about helping poor old people then you turn right around and withhold $2.7T from them and keep it locked away as some kind of surplus.
 

Cuyo

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...If you care about poor old people lets get to work on helping them instead of wasting money on a failed program.
50% reduced to 10%, with a $2.7T surplus last I checked. Failed, indeed.
That's exactly what I mean. You say you care about helping poor old people then you turn right around and withhold $2.7T from them and keep it locked away as some kind of surplus.

I don't think I actually have to explain to you, that the surplus is for paying future recipients....
 

expat_panama

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...Wrong about what, that I don't want Social Security or that you're not convincing anyone?
Of course you 'Don't want' Social Security, because you don't need it yet. You're young and you think you're going to live forever. That's actually WHY it works.
Well at least we're together on the fact that nobody's changing their mind here. In fact, your arguments haven't convinced me either so I'm still voting for repeal.
 

Truthmatters

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Why are you ignoring that SS pays for itsself?
 
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Toro

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...Social Security is good for us so we should be grateful and not complain about being forced to pay for something we never asked for but Toro knows is best for us.

My next guess is that Toro hasn't convinced anyone.
You're wrong...
Wrong about what, that I don't want Social Security or that you're not convincing anyone?

About my motivations for this thread. Looking through an ideological prism often impairs one's judgment.
 

Truthmatters

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your numbers show SS paying fro its self Toro.
 

Wiseacre

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It is estimated that for the average couple aged 65, each earning $43,500 a year, over their lifetime, they will on average pay $598,000 in SS taxes and receive $556,000 in SS benefits. They will pay $119,000 in Medicare taxes and receive $357,000 in Medicare benefits. In total, the couple will pay $717,000 in taxes and $913,000 in benefits, or $196,000 more than they received.

For an average couple aged 46, each earning $43,500 a year, they will pay $917,000 in taxes for SS and Medicare and receive $1,226,000 in benefits, or $309,000 more than they receive.

The study assumes a 2% real rate of return.

Social Security and Medicare Taxes and Benefits Over a Lifetime
http://www.urban.org/UploadedPDF/social-security-medicare-benefits-over-lifetime.pdf


That's odd, why then are both programs going broke?
 

Truthmatters

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tapping SS for other things and $119,000 in Medicare taxes and receive $357,000 in Medicare benefits
 

uscitizen

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editec

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I do not doubt that is true.

But the $1 I put into SSI in 1965 could buy me 4 loaves of good bread.

The $1 I get back today, will buy me maybe one loaf of good bread.
 

Listening

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This is mathematically unsustainable. An insurance company that did this would be bankrupt.

Simple and to the point.

You would think people would have gotten that through the last debt cieling limit discussion.

But, no, all we heard was how Bush raised it 50 gazillion times.

This from the people who said Bush was a moron and did everything wrong.

But when they need justification to do it themselves...they point to GW....???

Hey, wait a minute.
 

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