August 11 2011 Republican debate Thread

[Immanuel]

It should be pointed that there is some controversy over the translation of what Ahmadinejad actually said in the speech you're referring to. Which translation is more accurate I don't know, because I obviously don't speak the language. I have no doubt that Ahmadinejad dislikes Israel, but whether he actually threatened to wipe them out is questionable at the least.

I've not heard of any refutation on his part and it has been an issue for quite some time.

Immie

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That about sums it up fairly well.

The translation presented by the official Islamic Republic News Agency has been challenged by Arash Norouzi, who says the statement "wiped off the map" was never made and that Ahmadinejad did not refer to the nation or land mass of Israel, but to the "regime occupying Jerusalem". Norouzi translated the original Persian to English, with the result, "the Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time."[11] Juan Cole, a University of Michigan Professor of Modern Middle East and South Asian History, agrees that Ahmadinejad's statement should be translated as, "the Imam said that this regime occupying Jerusalem (een rezhim-e eshghalgar-e qods) must [vanish from] the page of time (bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad).[12] According to Cole, "Ahmadinejad did not say he was going to 'wipe Israel off the map' because no such idiom exists in Persian." Instead, "he did say he hoped its regime, i.e., a Jewish-Zionist state occupying Jerusalem, would collapse."[13] The Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) translated the phrase similarly, as "this regime" must be "eliminated from the pages of history."[14]

Iranian government sources denied that Ahmadinejad issued any sort of threat. On 20 February 2006, Iran's foreign minister Manouchehr Mottaki told a news conference: "How is it possible to remove a country from the map? He is talking about the regime. We do not recognize legally this regime."[15][16][17]

Just got back to reading this this morning.

Whether you say "wiped of the map" or "removed from the pages of history" that sounds like a threat to me. The threat of war against a sovereign nation and an ally of the U.S.

Immie

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

You do realize that Hitler came to power because of the Treaty of Versailles forced upon Germany by the UN, do you not? One of Hitlers major campaign promises was ending the Treaty of Versailles. One of the demands of the Treaty was that Germany did not raise an army, equivalent to preventing Iran from developing a nuclear weapon. This bred hatred and radicalism of the current world order, and was one of the major cause of the rise of the Nazi party and Hitler's coming to power.

World War two is an excellent example of how interventionism leads to unintended consequences. It is ironic that you try to use it to prove the opposite point.

I know plenty about how and why Hitler came to power.

I also know we cant trust the modern day equivalent to him in Iran.

Iran has a military, and they have no business with a nuke.

PERIOD!

Ever notice that when it comes to war propaganda every potential enemy is the next Hitler? It's like we've got a long line of Hitlers just waiting to take over the world.

 

[Missourian]

Ron Paul 47.72%

Newt Gingrich 12.77%

Michele Bachmann 12.01%

Mitt Romney 10.38%

Herman Cain 8.12%

Tim Pawlenty 4.76%

Rick Santorum 2.39%

Jon Huntsman 1.86%

Funny how they ignore their own polls. Watch Fox right now and they will not even mention Paul. The people have spoken, and when a government continues to ignore the mass opinion it becomes a dictatorship. Wake up American your Constitution is at stake!

Paul did not do well in this debate. He fumbled for both words and ideas.

I'd rate them as:

Newt.

Romney.

Cain.

Bachman.

Paul.

Santorum.

Pawlenty.

Huntsman.

 

[rightwinger]

SO far the top candidates in faux news opinion:

#1 Cain - They are even using Mitttens combined with canned crowd recordings.
(Use an audio analyzer, it is very obvious)


#2 Romney - Gets the most questions - by far


Pawlenty and Bachman reduced to only questions designed to make them seem like they are bickering.

Everyone else just fills time.

Dr. Paul gets the least questions and the least time to respond.

Hmmm.....
Faux will be faux.

This is off of Fox news after the debate last night.

FoxNews.com LIVE You Decide
Who was your favorite in the Iowa debate?
Ron Paul 47.72%

Newt Gingrich 12.77%

Michele Bachmann 12.01%

Mitt Romney 10.38%

Herman Cain 8.12%

Tim Pawlenty 4.76%

Rick Santorum 2.39%

Jon Huntsman 1.86%

Funny how they ignore their own polls. Watch Fox right now and they will not even mention Paul. The people have spoken, and when a government continues to ignore the mass opinion it becomes a dictatorship. Wake up American your Constitution is at stake!

It is funny how Ron paul always does so well on internet polls

But when it comes to actual votes, he is a nonfactor

 

[Stashman]

Ron Paul 47.72%

Newt Gingrich 12.77%

Michele Bachmann 12.01%

Mitt Romney 10.38%

Herman Cain 8.12%

Tim Pawlenty 4.76%

Rick Santorum 2.39%

Jon Huntsman 1.86%

Funny how they ignore their own polls. Watch Fox right now and they will not even mention Paul. The people have spoken, and when a government continues to ignore the mass opinion it becomes a dictatorship. Wake up American your Constitution is at stake!

Paul did not do well in this debate. He fumbled for both words and ideas.

I'd rate them as:

Newt.

Romney.

Cain.

Bachman.

Paul.

Santorum.

Pawlenty.

Huntsman.

It doesn't matter what you think bud, what matters is what the majority think. This is supposed to be a democracy isn't it?

 

[Stashman]

SO far the top candidates in faux news opinion:

#1 Cain - They are even using Mitttens combined with canned crowd recordings.
(Use an audio analyzer, it is very obvious)


#2 Romney - Gets the most questions - by far


Pawlenty and Bachman reduced to only questions designed to make them seem like they are bickering.

Everyone else just fills time.

Dr. Paul gets the least questions and the least time to respond.

Hmmm.....
Faux will be faux.

This is off of Fox news after the debate last night.

FoxNews.com LIVE You Decide
Who was your favorite in the Iowa debate?
Ron Paul 47.72%

Newt Gingrich 12.77%

Michele Bachmann 12.01%

Mitt Romney 10.38%

Herman Cain 8.12%

Tim Pawlenty 4.76%

Rick Santorum 2.39%

Jon Huntsman 1.86%

Funny how they ignore their own polls. Watch Fox right now and they will not even mention Paul. The people have spoken, and when a government continues to ignore the mass opinion it becomes a dictatorship. Wake up American your Constitution is at stake!

It is funny how Ron paul always does so well on internet polls

But when it comes to actual votes, he is a nonfactor

That's odd I thought he has been elected 12 times and has been serving in Government for 30 yrs. Everything Ron Paul stands for is straight from the Constitution. That makes him the most conservative minded person running. When you debate his policy's you are debating the U.S. Constitution. I would think that every American would want our Government and elected officials to stand by it. They all swear to do so when taking office.

 

[rightwinger]

This is off of Fox news after the debate last night.

FoxNews.com LIVE You Decide
Who was your favorite in the Iowa debate?
Ron Paul 47.72%

Newt Gingrich 12.77%

Michele Bachmann 12.01%

Mitt Romney 10.38%

Herman Cain 8.12%

Tim Pawlenty 4.76%

Rick Santorum 2.39%

Jon Huntsman 1.86%

Funny how they ignore their own polls. Watch Fox right now and they will not even mention Paul. The people have spoken, and when a government continues to ignore the mass opinion it becomes a dictatorship. Wake up American your Constitution is at stake!

It is funny how Ron paul always does so well on internet polls

But when it comes to actual votes, he is a nonfactor

That's odd I thought he has been elected 12 times and has been serving in Government for 30 yrs. Everything Ron Paul stands for is straight from the Constitution. That makes him the most conservative minded person running. When you debate his policy's you are debating the U.S. Constitution. I would think that every American would want our Government and elected officials to stand by it. They all swear to do so when taking office.

Paul gets elected in his small Texas district. How did he do in the 2008 primaries? He did not take a single delegate and drew single digits

He has an internet army (yourself included) who swamp internet polls. Did you hear his cheering section in last nights debate? They were instructed to scream as loudly as they could every time he spoke. Came off like a small group trying to sound like a larger group

Just like his internet army

 

[Missourian]

Ron Paul 47.72%

Newt Gingrich 12.77%

Michele Bachmann 12.01%

Mitt Romney 10.38%

Herman Cain 8.12%

Tim Pawlenty 4.76%

Rick Santorum 2.39%

Jon Huntsman 1.86%

Funny how they ignore their own polls. Watch Fox right now and they will not even mention Paul. The people have spoken, and when a government continues to ignore the mass opinion it becomes a dictatorship. Wake up American your Constitution is at stake!

Paul did not do well in this debate. He fumbled for both words and ideas.

I'd rate them as:

Newt.

Romney.

Cain.

Bachman.

Paul.

Santorum.

Pawlenty.

Huntsman.

It doesn't matter what you think bud, what matters is what the majority think. This is supposed to be a democracy isn't it?

Nope, this <makes an all encompassing gesture> is a message board.

It is a communication medium upon which one expresses thoughts via posts.

Anything else you need clarified?

 

[Paulie]

I have lost respect for Ron Paul based on his desire to completely hide within our own borders.

What did he say. withdraw the troops?

We should. That doesnt mean hide.

Yes we should but he thinks we should NEVER interfere outside our borders. That's just isolationism that I can't support.

No he doesn't. He's never said we should NEVER interfere. He voted yes on the Afghanistan invasion for crying out loud.

How fucking stupid ARE you?

 

[Freeland]

Damn...it is strange

But I hope Sarah palin runs. At least she would be interesting. This is the dullest bunch of candidates I have ever seen. Only Newt has any charisma. If this is the best we have to listen to over the next year, this is going to be one dull message board

You're kidding, right? Newt was the dullest of them all. He purposely stayed off the radar and made himself as "status quo" as possible. Ron Paul was the ONLY candidate who veered from the comfortable, mainstream opinions that the rest of them shared.

Ron Paul (and maybe that RINO Huntsman) is the only one who is even distinguishable in his political views.

 

[Paulie]

Ron Paul 47.72%

Newt Gingrich 12.77%

Michele Bachmann 12.01%

Mitt Romney 10.38%

Herman Cain 8.12%

Tim Pawlenty 4.76%

Rick Santorum 2.39%

Jon Huntsman 1.86%

Funny how they ignore their own polls. Watch Fox right now and they will not even mention Paul. The people have spoken, and when a government continues to ignore the mass opinion it becomes a dictatorship. Wake up American your Constitution is at stake!

Paul did not do well in this debate. He fumbled for both words and ideas.

I'd rate them as:

Newt.

Romney.

Cain.

Bachman.

Paul.

Santorum.

Pawlenty.

Huntsman.

How do you put Bachman that high up? She stares into the camera the entire time and speaks like a robot reciting programmed responses.

She's about as fake as they come.

 

[rightwinger]

Ron Paul 47.72%

Newt Gingrich 12.77%

Michele Bachmann 12.01%

Mitt Romney 10.38%

Herman Cain 8.12%

Tim Pawlenty 4.76%

Rick Santorum 2.39%

Jon Huntsman 1.86%

Funny how they ignore their own polls. Watch Fox right now and they will not even mention Paul. The people have spoken, and when a government continues to ignore the mass opinion it becomes a dictatorship. Wake up American your Constitution is at stake!

Paul did not do well in this debate. He fumbled for both words and ideas.

I'd rate them as:

Newt.

Romney.

Cain.

Bachman.

Paul.

Santorum.

Pawlenty.

Huntsman.

How do you put Bachman that high up? She stares into the camera the entire time and speaks like a robot reciting programmed responses.

She's about as fake as they come.

Look who she is above

 

[Paulie]

Paul did not do well in this debate. He fumbled for both words and ideas.

I'd rate them as:

Newt.

Romney.

Cain.

Bachman.

Paul.

Santorum.

Pawlenty.

Huntsman.

How do you put Bachman that high up? She stares into the camera the entire time and speaks like a robot reciting programmed responses.

She's about as fake as they come.

Look who she is above

Yeah, and? It's one guy's opinion. I'm just wondering how she could be placed above ANYONE.

 

[Missourian]

Ron Paul 47.72%

Newt Gingrich 12.77%

Michele Bachmann 12.01%

Mitt Romney 10.38%

Herman Cain 8.12%

Tim Pawlenty 4.76%

Rick Santorum 2.39%

Jon Huntsman 1.86%

Funny how they ignore their own polls. Watch Fox right now and they will not even mention Paul. The people have spoken, and when a government continues to ignore the mass opinion it becomes a dictatorship. Wake up American your Constitution is at stake!

Paul did not do well in this debate. He fumbled for both words and ideas.

I'd rate them as:

Newt.

Romney.

Cain.

Bachman.

Paul.

Santorum.

Pawlenty.

Huntsman.

How do you put Bachman that high up? She stares into the camera the entire time and speaks like a robot reciting programmed responses.

She's about as fake as they come.

Bachmann surpassed my expectations.

Paul performance was underwhelming...I expected him to do much better.

That was the difference between 4th and 5th.

But in reality, this debate was Newt, Romney, then everyone else and Huntsman last.

 

[Paulie]

Paul did not do well in this debate. He fumbled for both words and ideas.

I'd rate them as:

Newt.

Romney.

Cain.

Bachman.

Paul.

Santorum.

Pawlenty.

Huntsman.

How do you put Bachman that high up? She stares into the camera the entire time and speaks like a robot reciting programmed responses.

She's about as fake as they come.

Bachmann surpassed my expectations.

Paul performance was underwhelming...I expected him to do much better.

That was the difference between 4th and 5th.

But in reality, this debate was Newt, Romney, then everyone else and Huntsman last.

But she's so fake though. She looks like she's struggling the whole time to make sure she says what she's supposed to say and at any moment she could snap from the pressure.

And she opened right up with a rant about Obama and spouted talking points after Baier asked the panel to try and refrain from doing just that.

I think she's out of her league and really doesn't belong on this level. She's better just being a tea party figure and leaving it at that.

 

[Immanuel]

How do you put Bachman that high up? She stares into the camera the entire time and speaks like a robot reciting programmed responses.

She's about as fake as they come.

Bachmann surpassed my expectations.

Paul performance was underwhelming...I expected him to do much better.

That was the difference between 4th and 5th.

But in reality, this debate was Newt, Romney, then everyone else and Huntsman last.

But she's so fake though. She looks like she's struggling the whole time to make sure she says what she's supposed to say and at any moment she could snap from the pressure.

And she opened right up with a rant about Obama and spouted talking points after Baier asked the panel to try and refrain from doing just that.

I think she's out of her league and really doesn't belong on this level. She's better just being a tea party figure and leaving it at that.

Wait a minute, didn't every single one of them open up with their answers to the first round of questions about Obama?

I am pretty sure they did. So much so that by the time they finished that first round, I wondered just exactly when they were going to start debating.

Immie

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

It is funny how Ron paul always does so well on internet polls

But when it comes to actual votes, he is a nonfactor

That's odd I thought he has been elected 12 times and has been serving in Government for 30 yrs. Everything Ron Paul stands for is straight from the Constitution. That makes him the most conservative minded person running. When you debate his policy's you are debating the U.S. Constitution. I would think that every American would want our Government and elected officials to stand by it. They all swear to do so when taking office.

Paul gets elected in his small Texas district. How did he do in the 2008 primaries? He did not take a single delegate and drew single digits

He has an internet army (yourself included) who swamp internet polls. Did you hear his cheering section in last nights debate? They were instructed to scream as loudly as they could every time he spoke. Came off like a small group trying to sound like a larger group

Just like his internet army

Is it just his internet army that has him in third consistently? Is it just his internet army that has him polling right around 15%? Is it just his internet army that has many pundits saying there is a very good chance he could win the Ames Straw Poll tomorrow? Ron Paul's base of support is expanding beyond what he had in 2008. It's something his detractors need to realize.

 

[Modbert]

I have to go back and watch this debate tonight.

I will say though that I find it amusing that Ron Paul supporters like Stashman continue to use internet polls as evidence that he won the debate. Especially when on other websites, I see Ron Paul fans advocate to vote-bomb these polls with Paul.

The Fox News poll being one of the more popular ones.

The same thing happened back in 2008 too.

 

[Ali777]

It is funny how Ron paul always does so well on internet polls

But when it comes to actual votes, he is a nonfactor

That's odd I thought he has been elected 12 times and has been serving in Government for 30 yrs. Everything Ron Paul stands for is straight from the Constitution. That makes him the most conservative minded person running. When you debate his policy's you are debating the U.S. Constitution. I would think that every American would want our Government and elected officials to stand by it. They all swear to do so when taking office.

Paul gets elected in his small Texas district. How did he do in the 2008 primaries? He did not take a single delegate and drew single digits

He has an internet army (yourself included) who swamp internet polls. Did you hear his cheering section in last nights debate? They were instructed to scream as loudly as they could every time he spoke. Came off like a small group trying to sound like a larger group

Just like his internet army

It was annoying. You could tell he was playing to that crowd too. He would never shut up when his time was up. Going over his limit and with grandiose rantings.

 

[Missourian]

How do you put Bachman that high up? She stares into the camera the entire time and speaks like a robot reciting programmed responses.

She's about as fake as they come.

Bachmann surpassed my expectations.

Paul performance was underwhelming...I expected him to do much better.

That was the difference between 4th and 5th.

But in reality, this debate was Newt, Romney, then everyone else and Huntsman last.

But she's so fake though. She looks like she's struggling the whole time to make sure she says what she's supposed to say and at any moment she could snap from the pressure.

And she opened right up with a rant about Obama and spouted talking points after Baier asked the panel to try and refrain from doing just that.

I think she's out of her league and really doesn't belong on this level. She's better just being a tea party figure and leaving it at that.

I just didn't see her as stuggling or fake.

It will be interesting to see if others did.

I thought she did relatively well.

I agree I did notice the talking points in the opening statement...but a few others did the same.

I do agree that she not prepared to be president yet, and I've said that before...but IMO, she did pretty well last night, exceeding my expectations.