Attention, gun control supporters:

[eflatminor]

Cowards hide behind guns because they are too weak or afraid to face a man in close quarters hand to hand combat.

You're right, a 120 pound woman should have the 'right' to fistfight a 250 pound rapist.

Those chicks are nothing more than cowards...

I don't know. I've never met a woman who had to chase off a 250 lbs rapist with a gun.

Well that settles it...

 

[clevergirl]

Criminals commit murder, not law abiding citizens...some criminals are crazy- the MASS MURDERING KIND OF CRAZY....the only thing that stops a murderer is an opposing force. Disarming the force is equal to spitting in the wind with regards stopping criminals. There have been numerous occasions where everyday citizens (the force) who are armed with a gun, save lives and prevent crime.

Note that the worst mass school attack in this country happened before the manufacturing of the guns in question- and indeed happened with a bomb


Adam Lanza was a criminal. He murdered his mother, then shot his way into Sandy Hook Elementary School and killed 20 first-graders and six adults before turning a gun on himself.

Seung-Hui Cho was a criminal. He shot and killed 32 people and wounded 17 others in two separate attacks, approximately two hours apart, before committing suicide. The massacre is the deadliest shooting incident by a single gunman in U.S. history. It was the worst act of mass murder of college students since Syracuse University lost 35 students in the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103, and the second-deadliest act of mass murder at a US school campus, behind the Bath School disaster of 1927.

Andrew Kehoe was a criminal. The Bath School disaster is the name given to a series of violent events in Bath Township, Michigan, on May 18, 1927, that killed 38 elementary school children, two teachers, and four other adults and injured at least 58 people. Kehoe first killed his wife, set off a major explosion in a school building, and committed suicide with a third explosion. Most of the victims were children in the second to sixth grades (7–14 years of age) attending the Bath Consolidated School. Their deaths constitute the deadliest mass murder in a school in United States history

<source the wiki>

 

[JQPublic1]

Cowards hide behind guns because they are too weak or afraid to face a man in close quarters hand to hand combat.

You're right, a 120 pound woman should have the 'right' to fistfight a 250 pound rapist.

Those chicks are nothing more than cowards...

I don't know. I've never met a woman who had to chase off a 250 lbs rapist with a gun.

I do know women who've had to bury their teenagers after they blew out their brains with the gun they bought for protection, though.

I had to chuckle at that one myself Joe! But I think the general consensus would be that the word "coward" usually does NOT apply to women. Also, I haven't heard of a woman storming a school with a semi automatic weapon and killing a bunch of folks either! It might have happened but I have never heard of it!

 

[daveman]

You're right, a 120 pound woman should have the 'right' to fistfight a 250 pound rapist.

Those chicks are nothing more than cowards...

I don't know. I've never met a woman who had to chase off a 250 lbs rapist with a gun.

I do know women who've had to bury their teenagers after they blew out their brains with the gun they bought for protection, though.

I had to chuckle at that one myself Joe! But I think the general consensus would be that the word "coward" usually does NOT apply to women. Also, I haven't heard of a woman storming a school with a semi automatic weapon and killing a bunch of folks either! It might have happened but I have never heard of it!

Hey, Tough Guy: Why are you ignoring this post?

Cowards hide behind guns because they are too weak or afraid to face a man in close quarters hand to hand combat. I get a rush out o forcing an opponent into submission with my bare hands... the bigger the better.

Sure, Zippy. How many armed attackers have you forced into submission with your bare hands?

 

[Bfgrn]

What does that do about guns that are illegally sold to criminals?

Sources of Guns Used in Crimes – FBI Report : Buy A Gun Day

FBI reports:
According to the 1997 Survey of State Prison Inmates, among those possessing a gun, the source of the gun was from –

• a flea market or gun show for fewer than 2%
• a retail store or pawnshop for about 12%
• family, friends, a street buy, or an illegal source for 80%

Seriously? A 1997 source? Fully 40% of all guns sold in the US have no background checks. It's interesting that your source doesn't include private transactions, through classified ads. That's a common way that people are now buying guns. In many states, there's no questions asked, and in states like Virginia, the only law is you can't knowingly sell a gun to a felon. In South Carolina, there's not even that on the books.

I have seen nothing to back up the bolded claim. NOTE: Bob Costas' ignorant rant is not sufficient.

Got anything credible, are are we just supposed to accept it because it feels right to you?

Yep...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YQEDvqmAfqg]Gun Show: Undercover - YouTube[/ame]

Michael R. Bloomberg
108th Mayor of the City of New York

Gun Show Undercover

Ever wonder how criminals are able to get guns so easily? It's depressingly simple. On any given weekend, at dozens of gun shows held in states across the country -- criminals can buy guns from "private sellers" who are not required to perform background checks.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms has identified gun shows as the source of more than 30% of all illegally trafficked guns in the country. Those are the guns most likely to be used in crimes -- and to kill innocent people, including police officers.

Today, New York City is releasing the results of a multi-state investigation into this activity: "Gun Show Undercover." We sent investigators with hidden cameras to seven gun shows across Ohio, Tennessee and Nevada, and we found out just how easy it is for criminals and the mentally ill to walk in and buy guns -- no questions asked.

Our investigators told the private sellers that they "probably couldn't pass a background check" -- and at that point, the seller should have sent them away. Because even private sellers are prohibited by federal law from selling to those who they have reason to suspect could not pass a background check.

Instead, 19 out of 30 private sellers made the sale.

more

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Seriously? A 1997 source? Fully 40% of all guns sold in the US have no background checks. It's interesting that your source doesn't include private transactions, through classified ads. That's a common way that people are now buying guns. In many states, there's no questions asked, and in states like Virginia, the only law is you can't knowingly sell a gun to a felon. In South Carolina, there's not even that on the books.

I have seen nothing to back up the bolded claim. NOTE: Bob Costas' ignorant rant is not sufficient.

Got anything credible, are are we just supposed to accept it because it feels right to you?

Yep...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YQEDvqmAfqg]Gun Show: Undercover - YouTube[/ame]

Michael R. Bloomberg
108th Mayor of the City of New York

Gun Show Undercover

Ever wonder how criminals are able to get guns so easily? It's depressingly simple. On any given weekend, at dozens of gun shows held in states across the country -- criminals can buy guns from "private sellers" who are not required to perform background checks.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms has identified gun shows as the source of more than 30% of all illegally trafficked guns in the country. Those are the guns most likely to be used in crimes -- and to kill innocent people, including police officers.

Today, New York City is releasing the results of a multi-state investigation into this activity: "Gun Show Undercover." We sent investigators with hidden cameras to seven gun shows across Ohio, Tennessee and Nevada, and we found out just how easy it is for criminals and the mentally ill to walk in and buy guns -- no questions asked.

Our investigators told the private sellers that they "probably couldn't pass a background check" -- and at that point, the seller should have sent them away. Because even private sellers are prohibited by federal law from selling to those who they have reason to suspect could not pass a background check.

Instead, 19 out of 30 private sellers made the sale.

more

Here gun dealer person I'll slip you a hundred if you say certain things for me.
Tell me have any of those gun dealers been charged?

 

[Bfgrn]

I have seen nothing to back up the bolded claim. NOTE: Bob Costas' ignorant rant is not sufficient.

Got anything credible, are are we just supposed to accept it because it feels right to you?

Yep...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YQEDvqmAfqg]Gun Show: Undercover - YouTube[/ame]

Michael R. Bloomberg
108th Mayor of the City of New York

Gun Show Undercover

Ever wonder how criminals are able to get guns so easily? It's depressingly simple. On any given weekend, at dozens of gun shows held in states across the country -- criminals can buy guns from "private sellers" who are not required to perform background checks.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms has identified gun shows as the source of more than 30% of all illegally trafficked guns in the country. Those are the guns most likely to be used in crimes -- and to kill innocent people, including police officers.

Today, New York City is releasing the results of a multi-state investigation into this activity: "Gun Show Undercover." We sent investigators with hidden cameras to seven gun shows across Ohio, Tennessee and Nevada, and we found out just how easy it is for criminals and the mentally ill to walk in and buy guns -- no questions asked.

Our investigators told the private sellers that they "probably couldn't pass a background check" -- and at that point, the seller should have sent them away. Because even private sellers are prohibited by federal law from selling to those who they have reason to suspect could not pass a background check.

Instead, 19 out of 30 private sellers made the sale.

more

Here gun dealer person I'll slip you a hundred if you say certain things for me.
Tell me have any of those gun dealers been charged?

Come on. Quit the bullshit. Have any of these gun dealers made that claim?

 

[The Professor]

Cowards hide behind guns because they are too weak or afraid to face a man in close quarters hand to hand combat.

You're right, a 120 pound woman should have the 'right' to fistfight a 250 pound rapist.

Those chicks are nothing more than cowards...

I don't know. I've never met a woman who had to chase off a 250 lbs rapist with a gun.

I do know women who've had to bury their teenagers after they blew out their brains with the gun they bought for protection, though.

I don't know if I have actually met a woman who used a hand gun to prevent being raped. I may have and not know it since not every woman talks to everyone about such an event. However I have read of many such cases. That you are unaware of rapes which were prevented by an armed victim does not help your argument; if fact, it destroys it.

A suicide is a tragic thing. I know because my son shot himself when he was 24. However, a single death cannot guide policy; instead, the impact upon the entire population must be considered. There are two sides to the debate, and many of the statistics are contradictory and confusing. However, based upon my own research and observations, I am convinced that in today's America gun ownership has actually prevented a substantial number of violent crimes. I know that when criminals are looking for victims, they look for those who are vulnerable. If they think a person is armed, even when they are also armed, they will wait for someone else to come along. Criminals may by stupid, but like all of us, their self-preservation instincts are rather intact.

In an impossible utopia, there would be no criminals. The next best purely imaginary world is one in which every law abiding citizen has a gun and criminals would be unarmed. Crimes against persons in this fantasy world would be almost non-existent. The worst possible scenario is when law abiding citizens are unarmed and criminals have guns. This prospect is not only stupid, it's insane.

Unfortunately, in today's America violent crime is all too common, and I am convinced that it is impossible to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. Hell, certain drugs have been illegal for decades, yet they're easy to find in any city. Even if the manufacturing of firearms were made illegal, arms would flow across the border with as much ease as drugs and “undocumented immigrants.” Wherever there is a market and a willing supplier, the government is substantially helpless.

There are ways to reduce, greatly reduce, the number of gun-related crimes, but that is for another thread. The real question is: What are the reasons for all the violence? Guns are not the reason; guns are merely the tools of the trade.

 

[Bfgrn]

You're right, a 120 pound woman should have the 'right' to fistfight a 250 pound rapist.

Those chicks are nothing more than cowards...

I don't know. I've never met a woman who had to chase off a 250 lbs rapist with a gun.

I do know women who've had to bury their teenagers after they blew out their brains with the gun they bought for protection, though.

I don't know if I have actually met a woman who used a hand gun to prevent being raped. I may have and not know it since not every woman talks to everyone about such an event. However I have read of many such cases. That you are unaware of rapes which were prevented by an armed victim does not help your argument; if fact, it destroys it.

A suicide is a tragic thing. I know because my son shot himself when he was 24. However, a single death cannot guide policy; instead, the impact upon the entire population must be considered. There are two sides to the debate, and many of the statistics are contradictory and confusing. However, based upon my own research and observations, I am convinced that in today's America gun ownership has actually prevented a substantial number of violent crimes. I know that when criminals are looking for victims, they look for those who are vulnerable. If they think a person is armed, even when they are also armed, they will wait for someone else to come along. Criminals may by stupid, but like all of us, their self-preservation instincts are rather intact.

In an impossible utopia, there would be no criminals. The next best purely imaginary world is one in which every law abiding citizen has a gun and criminals would be unarmed. Crimes against persons in this fantasy world would be almost non-existent. The worst possible scenario is when law abiding citizens are unarmed and criminals have guns. This prospect is not only stupid, it's insane.

Unfortunately, in today's America violent crime is all too common, and I am convinced that it is impossible to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. Hell, certain drugs have been illegal for decades, yet they're easy to find in any city. Even if the manufacturing of firearms were made illegal, arms would flow across the border with as much ease as drugs and “undocumented immigrants.” Wherever there is a market and a willing supplier, the government is substantially helpless.

There are ways to reduce, greatly reduce, the number of gun-related crimes, but that is for another thread. The real question is: What are the reasons for all the violence? Guns are not the reason; guns are merely the tools of the trade.

Guns may be merely tools of the trade, but should a felon or person with a mental illness be able to drive to a gun show and buy any gun they want without a background check? No law will stop all crime, but why wouldn't law abiding gun owners want a loophole in a law that enables a felon or person with a mental illness closed?

 

[neomalthusian]

Guns may be merely tools of the trade, but should a felon or person with a mental illness be able to drive to a gun show and buy any gun they want without a background check? No law will stop all crime, but why wouldn't law abiding gun owners want a loophole in a law that enables a felon or person with a mental illness closed?

Just want to remind that there's a vast difference between "a person with a mental illness" and a person who has a history of repeated involuntary psychiatric commitments due to a really severe mental illness. Someone with acrophobia has a mental illness.

In fact, I think mental health should be the only potential impediment to gun ownership. I even think felons should be able to own guns again IF they have had reliable mental health assessment and are deemed not to be a risk of harming themselves or anyone with it.

We take away people's rights (including gun rights but other rights too) when A) they break serious laws, demonstrating they're dangerous to society, or B) they have the type of mental illness that makes them dangerous to themselves or others.

But in most cases we end up giving them those rights back again, because we've determined them not to continue to be at that risk of harming themselves/others/society.

 

[The Professor]

I served in the army for 20 years and I probably saw more combat in a day than you will in your lifetime. Have you ever served? I paid my dues in blood. I am no coward. And I am definitely an American. Cowards hide behind guns because they are too weak or afraid to face a man in close quarters hand to hand combat. I get a rush out o forcing an opponent into submission with my bare hands... the bigger the better.

I can't think of a better example of the need for being armed. You are able to conquer an opponent, even a much larger one with just your bare hands, which makes you extremely dangerous if you have a harmful intent. You have proven that sometimes a gun is needed to defend yourself even when the other person is unarmed simply because the other person can easily subdue you – and kill you - with his bare hands alone. The NRA thanks you for the endorsement !!

Calling gun owners cowards is unwarranted. Survival instincts are part of human nature and fear is a very good thing, providing that it is reasonable. People with no fear at all need therapy, desperately. What you call cowardice, I call common sense.

I will assume you're the bad-ass you claim to be. And you can assume that if I have a reasonable fear that you will attack me, I will use deadly force to stop you. I'll be damned if I am going to yield an advantage to someone who intends to harm me. Half a century ago, I served in the Marine Corps and I was a bad-ass, too, though apparently not as bad as you. I am armed, but no one could call me a coward because of it. I won't use my weapon unless my life depends on it.

 

[JQPublic1]

I served in the army for 20 years and I probably saw more combat in a day than you will in your lifetime. Have you ever served? I paid my dues in blood. I am no coward. And I am definitely an American. Cowards hide behind guns because they are too weak or afraid to face a man in close quarters hand to hand combat. I get a rush out o forcing an opponent into submission with my bare hands... the bigger the better.

I can't think of a better example of the need for being armed. You are able to conquer an opponent, even a much larger one with just your bare hands, which makes you extremely dangerous if you have a harmful intent.

Nice to meet you too, sir! Looks like you have made up our mind about me in a hurry. Your opinion seems to rest on a portion of the post you quoted. I wish you had read the whole thing. You see, I do not start fights or mess with people for the fun of it. When I take down a bully who is picking on a weaker person or beating up a woman, my unarmed self defense skills aren't used in a deadly manner. My aim is not to kill or injure. I just want to neutralize the threat in the least violent way. Now, the part of my post that you seem to have overlooked is the part where I admitted that I have firearms too; precisely because I realize that my unarmed defense skills are no match for an aggressor with a gun.

You have proven that sometimes a gun is needed to defend yourself even when the other person is unarmed simply because the other person can easily subdue you – and kill you - with his bare hands alone.

Again, you are preaching to the wrong man! You and I would never have a violent confrontation unless you decided to become the aggressor in some way. I am loud and boisterous sometimes but I never start a fight. I have walked away from trouble but I never run from it. If we met, you and I would probably be friends since you don't sound like a bully or jerk at this point!

The NRA thanks you for the endorsement !!

Well, I think my ownership of several firearms is a better endorsement...albeit unintentional!

Calling gun owners cowards is unwarranted. Survival instincts are part of human nature and fear is a very good thing, providing that it is reasonable. People with no fear at all need therapy, desperately. What you call cowardice, I call common sense.

Consider the person I was posting to. He used the term first against me. I think it was fair for me to reciprocate.

I will assume you're the bad-ass you claim to be. And you can assume that if I have a reasonable fear that you will attack me, I will use deadly force to stop you. I'll be damned if I am going to yield an advantage to someone who intends to harm me.

Fair enough! That is my philosophy as well. However if you are as peace loving as I am, violence of any sort would never materialize between us!

Half a century ago, I served in the Marine Corps and I was a bad-ass, too, though apparently not as bad as you. I am armed, but no one could call me a coward because of it. I won't use my weapon unless my life depends on it.

Again, fair enough! But know this... you are not the only one who is armed out there. And all of those people walking around with one have the potential to take you out before you can even clear leather. Your gun is not a deterrent against violence if the other guy pulls his out first

 

[Cammmpbell]

How are you going to get criminals to obey the law?


I've never gotten a rational, workable answer to this question in all the years I've asked it on this and other boards.

Screw that illogical question.

Stop the manufacturing and sales of assault type, rapid fire, military style weapons which have no useful purpose other than to kill humans.

Stop the manufacturing and sales of extended capacity magazines for any kind of semi automatic weapon. Put a high tax on any ammunition and treat it just like the sin taxes on cigarettes and alcohol........for starters.

Only the Right Wingers, criminals and the insane want to do nothing.......oh, I forgot the NRA.

 

[JoeB131]

From your link
Very dishonest of you.
2010: 231
2009: 224
2008: 225
2007: 404
2006: 229
2003: 287
Your source left out 2004 and 2005 in the total number of gun deaths section.

if you go back to the same source, the homicide rate in 1992 (when they instituted the ban) was 331, and the homicide rate dropped from 1.9 to 1.2 (Australia has had an influx of new immigration in recent years.)

In short, guns bans did cause the murder rate to drop... although there never was that high of a murder rate in Oz to start with.

Now, compare with the US... Where we have a 4.6 homicide rate compared to Australia's 1.2.

Or 14159 homicides compared to their 262.

 

[Cammmpbell]

From your link
Very dishonest of you.
2010: 231
2009: 224
2008: 225
2007: 404
2006: 229
2003: 287
Your source left out 2004 and 2005 in the total number of gun deaths section.

if you go back to the same source, the homicide rate in 1992 (when they instituted the ban) was 331, and the homicide rate dropped from 1.9 to 1.2 (Australia has had an influx of new immigration in recent years.)

In short, guns bans did cause the murder rate to drop... although there never was that high of a murder rate in Oz to start with.

Now, compare with the US... Where we have a 4.6 homicide rate compared to Australia's 1.2.

Or 14159 homicides compared to their 262.

They just don't get it. There's no need for semi automatic weapons with 30 clips which are designed to kill people and nothing else. In every one of the mass killings someone with an automatic pistol and an ordinary shell capacity would have killed two or three unless he was an expert marksman. That's the truth.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

From your link
Very dishonest of you.
2010: 231
2009: 224
2008: 225
2007: 404
2006: 229
2003: 287
Your source left out 2004 and 2005 in the total number of gun deaths section.

if you go back to the same source, the homicide rate in 1992 (when they instituted the ban) was 331, and the homicide rate dropped from 1.9 to 1.2 (Australia has had an influx of new immigration in recent years.)

In short, guns bans did cause the murder rate to drop... although there never was that high of a murder rate in Oz to start with.

Now, compare with the US... Where we have a 4.6 homicide rate compared to Australia's 1.2.

Or 14159 homicides compared to their 262.

irrelevant you posted inaccurate numbers and your source left out two years.

 

[ecinicola]

The laws will make it hard for the criminals but it is unlikely that it will stop them. They have laws on drunk driving but it continues regardless... And the same goes for anything. We have the laws but it doesn't stop anything if a person is incline to commit the offense.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Yep...

Gun Show: Undercover - YouTube

Michael R. Bloomberg
108th Mayor of the City of New York

Gun Show Undercover

Ever wonder how criminals are able to get guns so easily? It's depressingly simple. On any given weekend, at dozens of gun shows held in states across the country -- criminals can buy guns from "private sellers" who are not required to perform background checks.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms has identified gun shows as the source of more than 30% of all illegally trafficked guns in the country. Those are the guns most likely to be used in crimes -- and to kill innocent people, including police officers.

Today, New York City is releasing the results of a multi-state investigation into this activity: "Gun Show Undercover." We sent investigators with hidden cameras to seven gun shows across Ohio, Tennessee and Nevada, and we found out just how easy it is for criminals and the mentally ill to walk in and buy guns -- no questions asked.

Our investigators told the private sellers that they "probably couldn't pass a background check" -- and at that point, the seller should have sent them away. Because even private sellers are prohibited by federal law from selling to those who they have reason to suspect could not pass a background check.

Instead, 19 out of 30 private sellers made the sale.

more

Here gun dealer person I'll slip you a hundred if you say certain things for me.
Tell me have any of those gun dealers been charged?

Come on. Quit the bullshit. Have any of these gun dealers made that claim?

Does it matter? Have they been charged for breaking the law?
You have a highly motivated group with an agenda that was sent outside of their state.

 

[JoeB131]

irrelevant you posted inaccurate numbers and your source left out two years.

Numbers were accurate, and frankly, I'd rather have Australia's murder rate than ours...

They haven't had a mass shooting since the gun ban was imposed.

 

[daveman]

Seriously? A 1997 source? Fully 40% of all guns sold in the US have no background checks. It's interesting that your source doesn't include private transactions, through classified ads. That's a common way that people are now buying guns. In many states, there's no questions asked, and in states like Virginia, the only law is you can't knowingly sell a gun to a felon. In South Carolina, there's not even that on the books.

I have seen nothing to back up the bolded claim. NOTE: Bob Costas' ignorant rant is not sufficient.

Got anything credible, are are we just supposed to accept it because it feels right to you?

Yep...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YQEDvqmAfqg]Gun Show: Undercover - YouTube[/ame]

Michael R. Bloomberg
108th Mayor of the City of New York

Gun Show Undercover

Ever wonder how criminals are able to get guns so easily? It's depressingly simple. On any given weekend, at dozens of gun shows held in states across the country -- criminals can buy guns from "private sellers" who are not required to perform background checks.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms has identified gun shows as the source of more than 30% of all illegally trafficked guns in the country. Those are the guns most likely to be used in crimes -- and to kill innocent people, including police officers.

Today, New York City is releasing the results of a multi-state investigation into this activity: "Gun Show Undercover." We sent investigators with hidden cameras to seven gun shows across Ohio, Tennessee and Nevada, and we found out just how easy it is for criminals and the mentally ill to walk in and buy guns -- no questions asked.

Our investigators told the private sellers that they "probably couldn't pass a background check" -- and at that point, the seller should have sent them away. Because even private sellers are prohibited by federal law from selling to those who they have reason to suspect could not pass a background check.

Instead, 19 out of 30 private sellers made the sale.

more

Gun shows aren't a problem.

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/fuo.pdf