Atheists are just as deluded as theists...

[ding]

FWIW, Taz creates a thread about atheists being deluded and then proceeds to discuss religion. SMH.

Then why are YOU here?

To prove my point that you are not agnostic. If you recall, you created this thread to prove you were agnostic.

You aren't. You're a militant atheist. Be proud of it.

I started this thread to see if there are any atheists who think that a god is not possible. Didn't find any here, and we were discussing the difference of atheism versus agnstic. You like "militant", that's ok if it floats your boat.

You started this thread as a direct response to my argument that you were not an agnostic.

Apparently, all the atheists here are agnostic like I described. Why does this upset you?

It doesn't upset me. I don't believe it. Agnostics would not be here doing what you guys are doing. It's almost like you inherently know that it is wrong to be an atheist.

 

[ding]

My butt is just fine, Taz.

I'm not the one who took offense at being called anti-religious or atheist. That was you.

Atheist is cool, I might even be an agnostic atheist, people on this board have different meanings for the term, it's all good, it's not about the label, it's about the search for the truth.

Which explains why you are still trying to subordinate religion in a thread about atheism?

Try militant atheist, Taz, because that's what you are.

You want that label for me? Go for it, we were talking about the difference of all the labels...

What I want is irrelevant. It is what it is. That's what you are.

Because YOU decided? Or did your god tell you that?

No. Because your behaviors told me. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's a duck.

 

[sealybobo]

They don't need to. Atheism is not the conviction that there is no god. It's the lack of belief in a god or gods. Big difference.

Ya, that's what it seems, I've always seen the two as sort of distinct, atheists says god is a dumb idea, and agnostics say there's no proof for a god but that that doesn't mean that there isn't one. I'm finding out that those lines are more blurred for most atheists. That's cool, now I know.

Until we understand something we “do not know”. Positing a ‘god’ in place of admitting personal ignorance is an unfounded leap which demonstrates a fundamental lack of humility.

The existence and non-existence of a god are not equally probable outcomes. The majority of things we can possibly imagine do not exist. Thus, belief is not as valid a position as skepticism when dealing with unsupported or unfalsifiable claims. Agnostic atheism is the most rational position.

#21

Why there is no god

And an outlier for the entire history of mankind. So there must be something to this God thing and when we drill into it we find there is.

Or not. Or it could be all in our heads...

Not statistically possible.

Sure it is. Take any human species and put him in a group of ignorant people. Have them learn from one another. Have them talk and think and wonder how we got here. One theory will be that an unknown character/creator created this for us. Yada yada. I see my dad doing it all the time. I see him asking questions that science has answered. But God still holds on because of god of the gaps. Until we have all the answers there will always be a little room for the god hypothesis.

Just because the indians made up a god story and the egyptians made up a completely different story but similar, doesn't prove anything. Could this story have spread? Or , if not given enough information, will all humans come to such a hypothesis? They'll be some wild crazy stories but as long as the story has a creator, that's all you need to know? That is the evidence this creator is real? So now the Jesus story doesn't even have to be real. Nor the moses. Just the fact that every society has a god story is your evidence?

 

[ding]

Ya, that's what it seems, I've always seen the two as sort of distinct, atheists says god is a dumb idea, and agnostics say there's no proof for a god but that that doesn't mean that there isn't one. I'm finding out that those lines are more blurred for most atheists. That's cool, now I know.

Until we understand something we “do not know”. Positing a ‘god’ in place of admitting personal ignorance is an unfounded leap which demonstrates a fundamental lack of humility.

The existence and non-existence of a god are not equally probable outcomes. The majority of things we can possibly imagine do not exist. Thus, belief is not as valid a position as skepticism when dealing with unsupported or unfalsifiable claims. Agnostic atheism is the most rational position.

#21

Why there is no god

And an outlier for the entire history of mankind. So there must be something to this God thing and when we drill into it we find there is.

Or not. Or it could be all in our heads...

Not statistically possible.

Sure it is. Take any human species and put him in a group of ignorant people. Have them learn from one another. Have them talk and think and wonder how we got here. One theory will be that an unknown character/creator created this for us. Yada yada. I see my dad doing it all the time. I see him asking questions that science has answered. But God still holds on because of god of the gaps. Until we have all the answers there will always be a little room for the god hypothesis.

Just because the indians made up a god story and the egyptians made up a completely different story but similar, doesn't prove anything. Could this story have spread? Or , if not given enough information, will all humans come to such a hypothesis? They'll be some wild crazy stories but as long as the story has a creator, that's all you need to know? That is the evidence this creator is real? So now the Jesus story doesn't even have to be real. Nor the moses. Just the fact that every society has a god story is your evidence?

Do you even study human behaviors at all?

 

[sealybobo]

They don't need to. Atheism is not the conviction that there is no god. It's the lack of belief in a god or gods. Big difference.

Ya, that's what it seems, I've always seen the two as sort of distinct, atheists says god is a dumb idea, and agnostics say there's no proof for a god but that that doesn't mean that there isn't one. I'm finding out that those lines are more blurred for most atheists. That's cool, now I know.

Until we understand something we “do not know”. Positing a ‘god’ in place of admitting personal ignorance is an unfounded leap which demonstrates a fundamental lack of humility.

The existence and non-existence of a god are not equally probable outcomes. The majority of things we can possibly imagine do not exist. Thus, belief is not as valid a position as skepticism when dealing with unsupported or unfalsifiable claims. Agnostic atheism is the most rational position.

#21

Why there is no god

And an outlier for the entire history of mankind. So there must be something to this God thing and when we drill into it we find there is.

Or not. Or it could be all in our heads. Something we made up when we were primitive and something we hang on to because we are still literally 1 foot out of the cave.

It's something we are shedding. Slowly but it's happening. At least all of the man made religions who claim he visited. No he didn't. So everything formal that we know about the big guy is a lie. You can "believe" there is a creator but you have to start at the beginning. What evidence do you have? Nothing? Then this isn't even a theory. It's a hypothesis based on no facts.

The evidence is all around you. We've been through this a dozen times. When you are ready you will see it. And not one moment sooner.

belief in supreme deities emerged after complex cultures have already formed

belief in moralizing high gods (MHGs) enabled societies to outgrow their limited ability to police moral conduct, by threatening freeloaders with retribution even if no-one else noticed their transgressions

Watts and his colleagues pruned the 400 or so known Austronesian cultures down to 96 with detailed ethnographic records, excluding any in which contact with Abrahamic religions might have had a distorting outside influence. They range from native Hawaiians, who hold polytheistic beliefs, to the Merina people in Madagascar, who believe in a supreme God.

 

[toobfreak]

God is not a mystery to be solved. God is a relationship to be entered into and be experienced.
So if you make a sincere effort to enter into that relationship, God can be proven through experience.
But you’d have to understand what that proof would look like.
So it is possible to prove or disprove God through experience.

Ding, you touch upon a few good points:
God is the perfect willing mentor to the sincere student wishing to find his way on the path. The key here is the genuine wish to learn and to exceed the self.
God is known only through direct inward experience spoken to the soul.
God is an inward experience so AFAIK, cannot be proven or shown outwardly to a skeptic without harm except through yogic means, and then, only when done without self.
God is found in the spiritual heart (4th thru 7th chakras) by His advent, through a sincere (selfless) inner desire to know something greater and higher than oneself, so will never be found or proven to the ego-driven skeptic standing on one foot daring him to make himself known through the doubting, skeptical mind, as much as I know that just sounds like a cop out.

That's just the way it is and is the same regardless of faith because all faiths lead to the same place. It is the cosmic safety valve which keeps out people not yet ready to advance within the spirit, which would only cause them to fall lower instead, which is a grave offense.

Which of course all of this is always taken as just a cop out by the doubting, ego-driven individual! But that is just how it is. Much like the lions at the gate. Part of the mechanism of keeping out people unless and until they are truly ready to move past the physical and leave the material effulgence.

So now of course go right ahead and doubt me!

So any religion will do? I’ll become a Muslim or Mormon. One of those stories must be true

Technically yes. Every faith differs in form, but eventually all lead to the same place more or less, just as you can get to the top of Mt. Everest from many sides. It isn't the faith that counts as much as the individual practicing it.

 

[ding]

Ya, that's what it seems, I've always seen the two as sort of distinct, atheists says god is a dumb idea, and agnostics say there's no proof for a god but that that doesn't mean that there isn't one. I'm finding out that those lines are more blurred for most atheists. That's cool, now I know.

Until we understand something we “do not know”. Positing a ‘god’ in place of admitting personal ignorance is an unfounded leap which demonstrates a fundamental lack of humility.

The existence and non-existence of a god are not equally probable outcomes. The majority of things we can possibly imagine do not exist. Thus, belief is not as valid a position as skepticism when dealing with unsupported or unfalsifiable claims. Agnostic atheism is the most rational position.

#21

Why there is no god

And an outlier for the entire history of mankind. So there must be something to this God thing and when we drill into it we find there is.

Or not. Or it could be all in our heads. Something we made up when we were primitive and something we hang on to because we are still literally 1 foot out of the cave.

It's something we are shedding. Slowly but it's happening. At least all of the man made religions who claim he visited. No he didn't. So everything formal that we know about the big guy is a lie. You can "believe" there is a creator but you have to start at the beginning. What evidence do you have? Nothing? Then this isn't even a theory. It's a hypothesis based on no facts.

The evidence is all around you. We've been through this a dozen times. When you are ready you will see it. And not one moment sooner.

belief in supreme deities emerged after complex cultures have already formed

belief in moralizing high gods (MHGs) enabled societies to outgrow their limited ability to police moral conduct, by threatening freeloaders with retribution even if no-one else noticed their transgressions

Watts and his colleagues pruned the 400 or so known Austronesian cultures down to 96 with detailed ethnographic records, excluding any in which contact with Abrahamic religions might have had a distorting outside influence. They range from native Hawaiians, who hold polytheistic beliefs, to the Merina people in Madagascar, who believe in a supreme God.

Belief in a power greater than man emerged as consciousness emerged and man became self aware and aware of his surroundings. It is hard wired into us. We are literally hard wired to worship something. The only choice in the matter is what we choose to worship.

 

[sealybobo]

God is not a mystery to be solved. God is a relationship to be entered into and be experienced.
So if you make a sincere effort to enter into that relationship, God can be proven through experience.
But you’d have to understand what that proof would look like.
So it is possible to prove or disprove God through experience.

Ding, you touch upon a few good points:
God is the perfect willing mentor to the sincere student wishing to find his way on the path. The key here is the genuine wish to learn and to exceed the self.
God is known only through direct inward experience spoken to the soul.
God is an inward experience so AFAIK, cannot be proven or shown outwardly to a skeptic without harm except through yogic means, and then, only when done without self.
God is found in the spiritual heart (4th thru 7th chakras) by His advent, through a sincere (selfless) inner desire to know something greater and higher than oneself, so will never be found or proven to the ego-driven skeptic standing on one foot daring him to make himself known through the doubting, skeptical mind, as much as I know that just sounds like a cop out.

That's just the way it is and is the same regardless of faith because all faiths lead to the same place. It is the cosmic safety valve which keeps out people not yet ready to advance within the spirit, which would only cause them to fall lower instead, which is a grave offense.

Which of course all of this is always taken as just a cop out by the doubting, ego-driven individual! But that is just how it is. Much like the lions at the gate. Part of the mechanism of keeping out people unless and until they are truly ready to move past the physical and leave the material effulgence.

So now of course go right ahead and doubt me!

So any religion will do? I’ll become a Muslim or Mormon. One of those stories must be true

Technically yes. Every faith differs in form, but eventually all lead to the same place more or less, just as you can get to the top of Mt. Everest from many sides. It isn't the faith that counts as much as the individual practicing it.

Yea but then that isn't the end of the road. Christianity isn't the final destination. We are still evolving. And atheists numbers are growing. Ever watch star trek? Very few bible thumpers in the future. Very little talk of god.

Survey shows Americans are losing their religion

Sure it may take Muslims 10,000 more years to lose it than us but soon they'll follow.

And the asians don't seem that religious to me. Sure they too contemplate where we came from and how we got here but who doesn't? That doesn't prove anything.

 

[sealybobo]

Until we understand something we “do not know”. Positing a ‘god’ in place of admitting personal ignorance is an unfounded leap which demonstrates a fundamental lack of humility.

The existence and non-existence of a god are not equally probable outcomes. The majority of things we can possibly imagine do not exist. Thus, belief is not as valid a position as skepticism when dealing with unsupported or unfalsifiable claims. Agnostic atheism is the most rational position.

#21

Why there is no god

And an outlier for the entire history of mankind. So there must be something to this God thing and when we drill into it we find there is.

Or not. Or it could be all in our heads. Something we made up when we were primitive and something we hang on to because we are still literally 1 foot out of the cave.

It's something we are shedding. Slowly but it's happening. At least all of the man made religions who claim he visited. No he didn't. So everything formal that we know about the big guy is a lie. You can "believe" there is a creator but you have to start at the beginning. What evidence do you have? Nothing? Then this isn't even a theory. It's a hypothesis based on no facts.

The evidence is all around you. We've been through this a dozen times. When you are ready you will see it. And not one moment sooner.

belief in supreme deities emerged after complex cultures have already formed

belief in moralizing high gods (MHGs) enabled societies to outgrow their limited ability to police moral conduct, by threatening freeloaders with retribution even if no-one else noticed their transgressions

Watts and his colleagues pruned the 400 or so known Austronesian cultures down to 96 with detailed ethnographic records, excluding any in which contact with Abrahamic religions might have had a distorting outside influence. They range from native Hawaiians, who hold polytheistic beliefs, to the Merina people in Madagascar, who believe in a supreme God.

Belief in a power greater than man emerged as consciousness emerged and man became self aware and aware of his surroundings. It is hard wired into us. We are literally hard wired to worship something. The only choice in the matter is what we choose to worship.

What do i worship?

 

[ding]

And an outlier for the entire history of mankind. So there must be something to this God thing and when we drill into it we find there is.

Or not. Or it could be all in our heads. Something we made up when we were primitive and something we hang on to because we are still literally 1 foot out of the cave.

It's something we are shedding. Slowly but it's happening. At least all of the man made religions who claim he visited. No he didn't. So everything formal that we know about the big guy is a lie. You can "believe" there is a creator but you have to start at the beginning. What evidence do you have? Nothing? Then this isn't even a theory. It's a hypothesis based on no facts.

The evidence is all around you. We've been through this a dozen times. When you are ready you will see it. And not one moment sooner.

belief in supreme deities emerged after complex cultures have already formed

belief in moralizing high gods (MHGs) enabled societies to outgrow their limited ability to police moral conduct, by threatening freeloaders with retribution even if no-one else noticed their transgressions

Watts and his colleagues pruned the 400 or so known Austronesian cultures down to 96 with detailed ethnographic records, excluding any in which contact with Abrahamic religions might have had a distorting outside influence. They range from native Hawaiians, who hold polytheistic beliefs, to the Merina people in Madagascar, who believe in a supreme God.

Belief in a power greater than man emerged as consciousness emerged and man became self aware and aware of his surroundings. It is hard wired into us. We are literally hard wired to worship something. The only choice in the matter is what we choose to worship.

What do i worship?

Yourself.

 

[sealybobo]

Until we understand something we “do not know”. Positing a ‘god’ in place of admitting personal ignorance is an unfounded leap which demonstrates a fundamental lack of humility.

The existence and non-existence of a god are not equally probable outcomes. The majority of things we can possibly imagine do not exist. Thus, belief is not as valid a position as skepticism when dealing with unsupported or unfalsifiable claims. Agnostic atheism is the most rational position.

#21

Why there is no god

And an outlier for the entire history of mankind. So there must be something to this God thing and when we drill into it we find there is.

Or not. Or it could be all in our heads...

Not statistically possible.

Sure it is. Take any human species and put him in a group of ignorant people. Have them learn from one another. Have them talk and think and wonder how we got here. One theory will be that an unknown character/creator created this for us. Yada yada. I see my dad doing it all the time. I see him asking questions that science has answered. But God still holds on because of god of the gaps. Until we have all the answers there will always be a little room for the god hypothesis.

Just because the indians made up a god story and the egyptians made up a completely different story but similar, doesn't prove anything. Could this story have spread? Or , if not given enough information, will all humans come to such a hypothesis? They'll be some wild crazy stories but as long as the story has a creator, that's all you need to know? That is the evidence this creator is real? So now the Jesus story doesn't even have to be real. Nor the moses. Just the fact that every society has a god story is your evidence?

Do you even study human behaviors at all?

 

[toobfreak]

God is not a mystery to be solved. God is a relationship to be entered into and be experienced.
So if you make a sincere effort to enter into that relationship, God can be proven through experience.
But you’d have to understand what that proof would look like.
So it is possible to prove or disprove God through experience.

Ding, you touch upon a few good points:
God is the perfect willing mentor to the sincere student wishing to find his way on the path. The key here is the genuine wish to learn and to exceed the self.
God is known only through direct inward experience spoken to the soul.
God is an inward experience so AFAIK, cannot be proven or shown outwardly to a skeptic without harm except through yogic means, and then, only when done without self.
God is found in the spiritual heart (4th thru 7th chakras) by His advent, through a sincere (selfless) inner desire to know something greater and higher than oneself, so will never be found or proven to the ego-driven skeptic standing on one foot daring him to make himself known through the doubting, skeptical mind, as much as I know that just sounds like a cop out.

That's just the way it is and is the same regardless of faith because all faiths lead to the same place. It is the cosmic safety valve which keeps out people not yet ready to advance within the spirit, which would only cause them to fall lower instead, which is a grave offense.

Which of course all of this is always taken as just a cop out by the doubting, ego-driven individual! But that is just how it is. Much like the lions at the gate. Part of the mechanism of keeping out people unless and until they are truly ready to move past the physical and leave the material effulgence.

So now of course go right ahead and doubt me!

So any religion will do? I’ll become a Muslim or Mormon. One of those stories must be true

Technically yes. Every faith differs in form, but eventually all lead to the same place more or less, just as you can get to the top of Mt. Everest from many sides. It isn't the faith that counts as much as the individual practicing it.

Yea but then that isn't the end of the road. Christianity isn't the final destination.

Christianity has never been a destination. It is a practice.

We are still evolving. And atheists numbers are growing. Ever watch star trek? Very few bible thumpers in the future. Very little talk of god.

Really? You're quoting a sci-fi TV show from the 60s as proof of anything? Atheist numbers are growing. Population is growing. So is crime and immorality. Government and Leftists have also fought to remove God from schools and public education. So what else is new? You really thought taking something away from kids would make them more interested in it?

And the asians don't seem that religious to me.

Lessee:
Hinduism
Buddhism
Jainism
Sikhism
Taoism
Shintoism
Zenism
Confucianism and
Vedic Science
The East is the very HEART of the origins of religion, going back 5000 years!

 

[BuckToothMoron]

... as there's also no proof that a god can't be possible. Or can any atheist here prove that god is not possible?

They don't need to. Atheism is not the conviction that there is no god. It's the lack of belief in a god or gods. Big difference.

Ya, that's what it seems, I've always seen the two as sort of distinct, atheists says god is a dumb idea, and agnostics say there's no proof for a god but that that doesn't mean that there isn't one. I'm finding out that those lines are more blurred for most atheists. That's cool, now I know.

Until we understand something we “do not know”. Positing a ‘god’ in place of admitting personal ignorance is an unfounded leap which demonstrates a fundamental lack of humility.

The existence and non-existence of a god are not equally probable outcomes. The majority of things we can possibly imagine do not exist. Thus, belief is not as valid a position as skepticism when dealing with unsupported or unfalsifiable claims. Agnostic atheism is the most rational position.

#21

Why there is no god

I actually believe there is a god, but not as an explanation for the unknown. I reached the conclusion by observing that all human cultures throughout history have had some type of religion/god. If all human cultures experience the sense of a god (non believers are the outliers) then it stands to reason that all human cultures experience or sense something and what they call that sense is god, or other type of deity. It does exist, but it is somewhat undefined. Or maybe not.

Just because all human cultures have had some religion/god doesn't prove anything. One culture could have made it up and passed it on. Or, it could be a natural conclusion for primitive humans who are curious and don't know how we got here or where we came from.

Yes, all humans no matter how primitive have wondered about a big spirit in the sky and how we got here and the conclusion was that all this was made for us. But the facts say it wasn't all made for us. It was around millions of years before we existed and will be here millions of years after we are gone.

Now if you show me that dinosaurs had a god too maybe you would have something here. Otherwise, us superstitious humans have only been around for a couple hundred thousand years.

I didn’t say it proved it. It can’t be proved or disproved. It’s like you being gay. Nobody can prove you’re gay or disprove it. It’s a feeling you have.

 

[ding]

And an outlier for the entire history of mankind. So there must be something to this God thing and when we drill into it we find there is.

Or not. Or it could be all in our heads...

Not statistically possible.

Sure it is. Take any human species and put him in a group of ignorant people. Have them learn from one another. Have them talk and think and wonder how we got here. One theory will be that an unknown character/creator created this for us. Yada yada. I see my dad doing it all the time. I see him asking questions that science has answered. But God still holds on because of god of the gaps. Until we have all the answers there will always be a little room for the god hypothesis.

Just because the indians made up a god story and the egyptians made up a completely different story but similar, doesn't prove anything. Could this story have spread? Or , if not given enough information, will all humans come to such a hypothesis? They'll be some wild crazy stories but as long as the story has a creator, that's all you need to know? That is the evidence this creator is real? So now the Jesus story doesn't even have to be real. Nor the moses. Just the fact that every society has a god story is your evidence?

Do you even study human behaviors at all?

If you study human behaviors you should become painfully aware that there is a moral law that exists that was placed inside us that we did not create and can't seem to get rid of. This is the proof you have been so desperately seeking.

 

[ding]

God is not a mystery to be solved. God is a relationship to be entered into and be experienced.
So if you make a sincere effort to enter into that relationship, God can be proven through experience.
But you’d have to understand what that proof would look like.
So it is possible to prove or disprove God through experience.

Ding, you touch upon a few good points:
God is the perfect willing mentor to the sincere student wishing to find his way on the path. The key here is the genuine wish to learn and to exceed the self.
God is known only through direct inward experience spoken to the soul.
God is an inward experience so AFAIK, cannot be proven or shown outwardly to a skeptic without harm except through yogic means, and then, only when done without self.
God is found in the spiritual heart (4th thru 7th chakras) by His advent, through a sincere (selfless) inner desire to know something greater and higher than oneself, so will never be found or proven to the ego-driven skeptic standing on one foot daring him to make himself known through the doubting, skeptical mind, as much as I know that just sounds like a cop out.

That's just the way it is and is the same regardless of faith because all faiths lead to the same place. It is the cosmic safety valve which keeps out people not yet ready to advance within the spirit, which would only cause them to fall lower instead, which is a grave offense.

Which of course all of this is always taken as just a cop out by the doubting, ego-driven individual! But that is just how it is. Much like the lions at the gate. Part of the mechanism of keeping out people unless and until they are truly ready to move past the physical and leave the material effulgence.

So now of course go right ahead and doubt me!

So any religion will do? I’ll become a Muslim or Mormon. One of those stories must be true

Technically yes. Every faith differs in form, but eventually all lead to the same place more or less, just as you can get to the top of Mt. Everest from many sides. It isn't the faith that counts as much as the individual practicing it.

Yea but then that isn't the end of the road. Christianity isn't the final destination.

Christianity has never been a destination. It is a practice.

We are still evolving. And atheists numbers are growing. Ever watch star trek? Very few bible thumpers in the future. Very little talk of god.

Really? You're quoting a sci-fi TV show from the 60s as proof of anything? Atheist numbers are growing. Population is growing. So is crime and immorality. Government and Leftists have also fought to remove God from schools and public education. So what else is new? You really thought taking something away from kids would make them more interested in it?

And the asians don't seem that religious to me.

Lessee:
Hinduism
Buddhism
Jainism
Sikhism
Taoism
Shintoism
Zenism
Confucianism and
Vedic Science
The East is the very HEART of the origins of religion, going back 5000 years!

You left out Shangdi. The God of Abraham.

 

[sealybobo]

God is not a mystery to be solved. God is a relationship to be entered into and be experienced.
So if you make a sincere effort to enter into that relationship, God can be proven through experience.
But you’d have to understand what that proof would look like.
So it is possible to prove or disprove God through experience.

Ding, you touch upon a few good points:
God is the perfect willing mentor to the sincere student wishing to find his way on the path. The key here is the genuine wish to learn and to exceed the self.
God is known only through direct inward experience spoken to the soul.
God is an inward experience so AFAIK, cannot be proven or shown outwardly to a skeptic without harm except through yogic means, and then, only when done without self.
God is found in the spiritual heart (4th thru 7th chakras) by His advent, through a sincere (selfless) inner desire to know something greater and higher than oneself, so will never be found or proven to the ego-driven skeptic standing on one foot daring him to make himself known through the doubting, skeptical mind, as much as I know that just sounds like a cop out.

That's just the way it is and is the same regardless of faith because all faiths lead to the same place. It is the cosmic safety valve which keeps out people not yet ready to advance within the spirit, which would only cause them to fall lower instead, which is a grave offense.

Which of course all of this is always taken as just a cop out by the doubting, ego-driven individual! But that is just how it is. Much like the lions at the gate. Part of the mechanism of keeping out people unless and until they are truly ready to move past the physical and leave the material effulgence.

So now of course go right ahead and doubt me!

So any religion will do? I’ll become a Muslim or Mormon. One of those stories must be true

Technically yes. Every faith differs in form, but eventually all lead to the same place more or less, just as you can get to the top of Mt. Everest from many sides. It isn't the faith that counts as much as the individual practicing it.

Yea but then that isn't the end of the road. Christianity isn't the final destination.

Christianity has never been a destination. It is a practice.

We are still evolving. And atheists numbers are growing. Ever watch star trek? Very few bible thumpers in the future. Very little talk of god.

Really? You're quoting a sci-fi TV show from the 60s as proof of anything? Atheist numbers are growing. Population is growing. So is crime and immorality. Government and Leftists have also fought to remove God from schools and public education. So what else is new? You really thought taking something away from kids would make them more interested in it?

And the asians don't seem that religious to me.

Lessee:
Hinduism
Buddhism
Jainism
Sikhism
Taoism
Shintoism
Zenism
Confucianism and
Vedic Science
The East is the very HEART of the origins of religion, going back 5000 years!

False pattern recognition. I could also show you that at one time, before Mohammad, the Arab would was the center of the civilized world. They were the smartest and most advanced people in the world. Then Mohammad took over. How has that worked out for them? So we see what putting God into school does too just as much as we see what taking him out does.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Government and Leftists have also fought to remove God from schools and public education.

And thank goodness for that. Magical nonsense is for church.

 

[ding]

Government and Leftists have also fought to remove God from schools and public education.

And thank goodness for that. Magical nonsense is for church.

The irony of your statement is that you don't believe in God because he doesn't do magical nonsense for you.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Government and Leftists have also fought to remove God from schools and public education.

And thank goodness for that. Magical nonsense is for church.

The irony of your statement is that you don't believe in God because he doesn't do magical nonsense for you.

Or for anyone. Thus the irony in your statement.

See? It's easy to be simple.

 

[ding]

Ding, you touch upon a few good points:
God is the perfect willing mentor to the sincere student wishing to find his way on the path. The key here is the genuine wish to learn and to exceed the self.
God is known only through direct inward experience spoken to the soul.
God is an inward experience so AFAIK, cannot be proven or shown outwardly to a skeptic without harm except through yogic means, and then, only when done without self.
God is found in the spiritual heart (4th thru 7th chakras) by His advent, through a sincere (selfless) inner desire to know something greater and higher than oneself, so will never be found or proven to the ego-driven skeptic standing on one foot daring him to make himself known through the doubting, skeptical mind, as much as I know that just sounds like a cop out.

That's just the way it is and is the same regardless of faith because all faiths lead to the same place. It is the cosmic safety valve which keeps out people not yet ready to advance within the spirit, which would only cause them to fall lower instead, which is a grave offense.

Which of course all of this is always taken as just a cop out by the doubting, ego-driven individual! But that is just how it is. Much like the lions at the gate. Part of the mechanism of keeping out people unless and until they are truly ready to move past the physical and leave the material effulgence.

So now of course go right ahead and doubt me!

So any religion will do? I’ll become a Muslim or Mormon. One of those stories must be true

Technically yes. Every faith differs in form, but eventually all lead to the same place more or less, just as you can get to the top of Mt. Everest from many sides. It isn't the faith that counts as much as the individual practicing it.

Yea but then that isn't the end of the road. Christianity isn't the final destination.

Christianity has never been a destination. It is a practice.

We are still evolving. And atheists numbers are growing. Ever watch star trek? Very few bible thumpers in the future. Very little talk of god.

Really? You're quoting a sci-fi TV show from the 60s as proof of anything? Atheist numbers are growing. Population is growing. So is crime and immorality. Government and Leftists have also fought to remove God from schools and public education. So what else is new? You really thought taking something away from kids would make them more interested in it?

And the asians don't seem that religious to me.

Lessee:
Hinduism
Buddhism
Jainism
Sikhism
Taoism
Shintoism
Zenism
Confucianism and
Vedic Science
The East is the very HEART of the origins of religion, going back 5000 years!

False pattern recognition. I could also show you that at one time, before Mohammad, the Arab would was the center of the civilized world. They were the smartest and most advanced people in the world. Then Mohammad took over. How has that worked out for them? So we see what putting God into school does too just as much as we see what taking him out does.

False pattern recognition? Did you pick that up from an atheist website?

One of your problems - there are many - is that you have never traveled the path not taken. You literally don't have a valid comparison to make because religion has always been a part of societies. The only valid comparison you can make are to the militant atheistic governments that existed in the 20th century. Something you will dismiss even though it is a direct comparison for what happens when man is elevated to God.