Atheists are just as deluded as theists...

[Taz]

Morality is subjective, it comes from the survival instinct. Part of evolution.

I’m not surprised you believe morality is subjective. I wouldn’t have expected you to believe anything else.

If not, then why doesn't everyone adhere by the same moral code?

Variations are not the same thing as being diametrically opposed which we don’t see.

Of course we do, I'm a vegetarian and you're not. That's diametrically opposed.

But I don't rationalize what I do as moral, so we are not.

Doesn't matter what you think, eating sentient beings is still immoral. And to a lot of people.

 

[ding]

I’m not surprised you believe morality is subjective. I wouldn’t have expected you to believe anything else.

If not, then why doesn't everyone adhere by the same moral code?

Variations are not the same thing as being diametrically opposed which we don’t see.

Of course we do, I'm a vegetarian and you're not. That's diametrically opposed.

But I don't rationalize what I do as moral, so we are not.

Doesn't matter what you think, eating sentient beings is still immoral. And to a lot of people.

I didn't say it was moral, Taz. Do you have a problem with your reading comprehension, sweetie?

 

[sealybobo]

Well it is. Do you believe in the death penalty?

No. I think they should do hard labor.

Not really the point. The point is, many of you theists approve of the death penalty and many do not. So, your morality is subjective.

Wrong again. You are confusing perception of truth for truth. Two different things. People are subjective. Objective truth is not. For any given thing there is a final state. We call this objective truth or reality. Once discovered it is known that it was always that way even when it was believed to be different and that it will always remain that way. In other words, objective truth (aka reality) is eternal and unchanging.

Ergo God is existence.

Do you like how I did that?

Say what?

We are talking about morality being subjective. I said some theists think the death penalty is ok. So the point is, even to you guys the truth is subjective.

1. based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.
   "his views are highly subjective"
   synonyms: personal, individual, emotional, instinctive, intuitive
   "a subjective analysis"

Who decides what the truth is? I would say WE do.

God in the bible said thou shall not kill but then we go to war for oil. Subjective.

Did God ever mention the greater good or did he just simply say thou shall not kill?

What is the objective truth about the death penalty and why here in America do we have so many Christians who don't see "the truth"?

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

Morality (aka virtue) is not subjective. People are subjective. People's perception of morality (aka virtue) is subjective. Morality (aka virtue) itself is absolute.

Looky here! The Catholic church is being subjective when it comes to the death penalty

Pope Francis Changes Church Teaching About Death Penalty, Now 'Inadmissible' | HuffPost

Pope Francis has changed church teaching about the death penalty

The Vatican said Francis had approved a change to the Catechism

Previously, the catechism said

The new teaching, contained in Catechism No. 2267, says the previous policy is outdated

In an accompanying letter explaining the change, the head of the Vatican’s doctrine office said the development of Catholic doctrine on capital punishment didn’t contradict prior teaching, but rather was an evolution of it.

“If, in fact the political and social situation of the past made the death penalty an acceptable means for the protection of the common good, today....

He announced his intention to change church teaching on capital punishment last October, when he marked the 25th anniversary of the publication of the catechism by announcing his intention to update it. The catechism, first promulgated by St. John Paul II, gives Catholics an easy, go-to guide for church teaching on everything from the sacraments to sex.

He acknowledged that in the past even the Papal States had allowed this “extreme and inhuman recourse.” But he said the Holy See had erred in allowing a mentality that was “more legalistic than Christian” and now knew better.

LOL

 

[Avatar4321]

They’ve deluded themselves into believing there is no God.

So yeah far more deluded

 

[ding]

No. I think they should do hard labor.

Not really the point. The point is, many of you theists approve of the death penalty and many do not. So, your morality is subjective.

Wrong again. You are confusing perception of truth for truth. Two different things. People are subjective. Objective truth is not. For any given thing there is a final state. We call this objective truth or reality. Once discovered it is known that it was always that way even when it was believed to be different and that it will always remain that way. In other words, objective truth (aka reality) is eternal and unchanging.

Ergo God is existence.

Do you like how I did that?

Say what?

We are talking about morality being subjective. I said some theists think the death penalty is ok. So the point is, even to you guys the truth is subjective.

1. based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.
   "his views are highly subjective"
   synonyms: personal, individual, emotional, instinctive, intuitive
   "a subjective analysis"

Who decides what the truth is? I would say WE do.

God in the bible said thou shall not kill but then we go to war for oil. Subjective.

Did God ever mention the greater good or did he just simply say thou shall not kill?

What is the objective truth about the death penalty and why here in America do we have so many Christians who don't see "the truth"?

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

Morality (aka virtue) is not subjective. People are subjective. People's perception of morality (aka virtue) is subjective. Morality (aka virtue) itself is absolute.

Looky here! The Catholic church is being subjective when it comes to the death penalty

Pope Francis Changes Church Teaching About Death Penalty, Now 'Inadmissible' | HuffPost

Pope Francis has changed church teaching about the death penalty

The Vatican said Francis had approved a change to the Catechism

Previously, the catechism said

The new teaching, contained in Catechism No. 2267, says the previous policy is outdated

In an accompanying letter explaining the change, the head of the Vatican’s doctrine office said the development of Catholic doctrine on capital punishment didn’t contradict prior teaching, but rather was an evolution of it.

“If, in fact the political and social situation of the past made the death penalty an acceptable means for the protection of the common good, today....

He announced his intention to change church teaching on capital punishment last October, when he marked the 25th anniversary of the publication of the catechism by announcing his intention to update it. The catechism, first promulgated by St. John Paul II, gives Catholics an easy, go-to guide for church teaching on everything from the sacraments to sex.

He acknowledged that in the past even the Papal States had allowed this “extreme and inhuman recourse.” But he said the Holy See had erred in allowing a mentality that was “more legalistic than Christian” and now knew better.

LOL

I don't believe the church ever claimed it to be moral in the first place.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Not really the point. The point is, many of you theists approve of the death penalty and many do not. So, your morality is subjective.

Wrong again. You are confusing perception of truth for truth. Two different things. People are subjective. Objective truth is not. For any given thing there is a final state. We call this objective truth or reality. Once discovered it is known that it was always that way even when it was believed to be different and that it will always remain that way. In other words, objective truth (aka reality) is eternal and unchanging.

Ergo God is existence.

Do you like how I did that?

Say what?

We are talking about morality being subjective. I said some theists think the death penalty is ok. So the point is, even to you guys the truth is subjective.

1. based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.
   "his views are highly subjective"
   synonyms: personal, individual, emotional, instinctive, intuitive
   "a subjective analysis"

Who decides what the truth is? I would say WE do.

God in the bible said thou shall not kill but then we go to war for oil. Subjective.

Did God ever mention the greater good or did he just simply say thou shall not kill?

What is the objective truth about the death penalty and why here in America do we have so many Christians who don't see "the truth"?

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

Morality (aka virtue) is not subjective. People are subjective. People's perception of morality (aka virtue) is subjective. Morality (aka virtue) itself is absolute.

Looky here! The Catholic church is being subjective when it comes to the death penalty

Pope Francis Changes Church Teaching About Death Penalty, Now 'Inadmissible' | HuffPost

Pope Francis has changed church teaching about the death penalty

The Vatican said Francis had approved a change to the Catechism

Previously, the catechism said

The new teaching, contained in Catechism No. 2267, says the previous policy is outdated

In an accompanying letter explaining the change, the head of the Vatican’s doctrine office said the development of Catholic doctrine on capital punishment didn’t contradict prior teaching, but rather was an evolution of it.

“If, in fact the political and social situation of the past made the death penalty an acceptable means for the protection of the common good, today....

He announced his intention to change church teaching on capital punishment last October, when he marked the 25th anniversary of the publication of the catechism by announcing his intention to update it. The catechism, first promulgated by St. John Paul II, gives Catholics an easy, go-to guide for church teaching on everything from the sacraments to sex.

He acknowledged that in the past even the Papal States had allowed this “extreme and inhuman recourse.” But he said the Holy See had erred in allowing a mentality that was “more legalistic than Christian” and now knew better.

LOL

I don't believe the church ever claimed it to be moral in the first place.

Wrong.

 

[ding]

Wrong again. You are confusing perception of truth for truth. Two different things. People are subjective. Objective truth is not. For any given thing there is a final state. We call this objective truth or reality. Once discovered it is known that it was always that way even when it was believed to be different and that it will always remain that way. In other words, objective truth (aka reality) is eternal and unchanging.

Ergo God is existence.

Do you like how I did that?

Say what?

We are talking about morality being subjective. I said some theists think the death penalty is ok. So the point is, even to you guys the truth is subjective.

1. based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.
   "his views are highly subjective"
   synonyms: personal, individual, emotional, instinctive, intuitive
   "a subjective analysis"

Who decides what the truth is? I would say WE do.

God in the bible said thou shall not kill but then we go to war for oil. Subjective.

Did God ever mention the greater good or did he just simply say thou shall not kill?

What is the objective truth about the death penalty and why here in America do we have so many Christians who don't see "the truth"?

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

Morality (aka virtue) is not subjective. People are subjective. People's perception of morality (aka virtue) is subjective. Morality (aka virtue) itself is absolute.

Looky here! The Catholic church is being subjective when it comes to the death penalty

Pope Francis Changes Church Teaching About Death Penalty, Now 'Inadmissible' | HuffPost

Pope Francis has changed church teaching about the death penalty

The Vatican said Francis had approved a change to the Catechism

Previously, the catechism said

The new teaching, contained in Catechism No. 2267, says the previous policy is outdated

In an accompanying letter explaining the change, the head of the Vatican’s doctrine office said the development of Catholic doctrine on capital punishment didn’t contradict prior teaching, but rather was an evolution of it.

“If, in fact the political and social situation of the past made the death penalty an acceptable means for the protection of the common good, today....

He announced his intention to change church teaching on capital punishment last October, when he marked the 25th anniversary of the publication of the catechism by announcing his intention to update it. The catechism, first promulgated by St. John Paul II, gives Catholics an easy, go-to guide for church teaching on everything from the sacraments to sex.

He acknowledged that in the past even the Papal States had allowed this “extreme and inhuman recourse.” But he said the Holy See had erred in allowing a mentality that was “more legalistic than Christian” and now knew better.

LOL

I don't believe the church ever claimed it to be moral in the first place.

Wrong.

Can you show me where?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Say what?

We are talking about morality being subjective. I said some theists think the death penalty is ok. So the point is, even to you guys the truth is subjective.

1. based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.
   "his views are highly subjective"
   synonyms: personal, individual, emotional, instinctive, intuitive
   "a subjective analysis"

Who decides what the truth is? I would say WE do.

God in the bible said thou shall not kill but then we go to war for oil. Subjective.

Did God ever mention the greater good or did he just simply say thou shall not kill?

What is the objective truth about the death penalty and why here in America do we have so many Christians who don't see "the truth"?

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

Morality (aka virtue) is not subjective. People are subjective. People's perception of morality (aka virtue) is subjective. Morality (aka virtue) itself is absolute.

Looky here! The Catholic church is being subjective when it comes to the death penalty

Pope Francis Changes Church Teaching About Death Penalty, Now 'Inadmissible' | HuffPost

Pope Francis has changed church teaching about the death penalty

The Vatican said Francis had approved a change to the Catechism

Previously, the catechism said

The new teaching, contained in Catechism No. 2267, says the previous policy is outdated

In an accompanying letter explaining the change, the head of the Vatican’s doctrine office said the development of Catholic doctrine on capital punishment didn’t contradict prior teaching, but rather was an evolution of it.

“If, in fact the political and social situation of the past made the death penalty an acceptable means for the protection of the common good, today....

He announced his intention to change church teaching on capital punishment last October, when he marked the 25th anniversary of the publication of the catechism by announcing his intention to update it. The catechism, first promulgated by St. John Paul II, gives Catholics an easy, go-to guide for church teaching on everything from the sacraments to sex.

He acknowledged that in the past even the Papal States had allowed this “extreme and inhuman recourse.” But he said the Holy See had erred in allowing a mentality that was “more legalistic than Christian” and now knew better.

LOL

I don't believe the church ever claimed it to be moral in the first place.

Wrong.

Can you show me where?

Yes. Can you find it yourself? Yes.

 

[sealybobo]

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

Morality (aka virtue) is not subjective. People are subjective. People's perception of morality (aka virtue) is subjective. Morality (aka virtue) itself is absolute.

Looky here! The Catholic church is being subjective when it comes to the death penalty

Pope Francis Changes Church Teaching About Death Penalty, Now 'Inadmissible' | HuffPost

Pope Francis has changed church teaching about the death penalty

The Vatican said Francis had approved a change to the Catechism

Previously, the catechism said

The new teaching, contained in Catechism No. 2267, says the previous policy is outdated

In an accompanying letter explaining the change, the head of the Vatican’s doctrine office said the development of Catholic doctrine on capital punishment didn’t contradict prior teaching, but rather was an evolution of it.

“If, in fact the political and social situation of the past made the death penalty an acceptable means for the protection of the common good, today....

He announced his intention to change church teaching on capital punishment last October, when he marked the 25th anniversary of the publication of the catechism by announcing his intention to update it. The catechism, first promulgated by St. John Paul II, gives Catholics an easy, go-to guide for church teaching on everything from the sacraments to sex.

He acknowledged that in the past even the Papal States had allowed this “extreme and inhuman recourse.” But he said the Holy See had erred in allowing a mentality that was “more legalistic than Christian” and now knew better.

LOL

I don't believe the church ever claimed it to be moral in the first place.

Wrong.

Can you show me where?

Yes. Can you find it yourself? Yes.

The fact is, and ding knows it, morality is subjective even within Christian churches. What they are ok with today they might not be tomorrow like executions. But then what was once banned is now accepted. For example gays.

 

[sealybobo]

Say what?

We are talking about morality being subjective. I said some theists think the death penalty is ok. So the point is, even to you guys the truth is subjective.

1. based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.
   "his views are highly subjective"
   synonyms: personal, individual, emotional, instinctive, intuitive
   "a subjective analysis"

Who decides what the truth is? I would say WE do.

God in the bible said thou shall not kill but then we go to war for oil. Subjective.

Did God ever mention the greater good or did he just simply say thou shall not kill?

What is the objective truth about the death penalty and why here in America do we have so many Christians who don't see "the truth"?

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

Morality (aka virtue) is not subjective. People are subjective. People's perception of morality (aka virtue) is subjective. Morality (aka virtue) itself is absolute.

Looky here! The Catholic church is being subjective when it comes to the death penalty

Pope Francis Changes Church Teaching About Death Penalty, Now 'Inadmissible' | HuffPost

Pope Francis has changed church teaching about the death penalty

The Vatican said Francis had approved a change to the Catechism

Previously, the catechism said

The new teaching, contained in Catechism No. 2267, says the previous policy is outdated

In an accompanying letter explaining the change, the head of the Vatican’s doctrine office said the development of Catholic doctrine on capital punishment didn’t contradict prior teaching, but rather was an evolution of it.

“If, in fact the political and social situation of the past made the death penalty an acceptable means for the protection of the common good, today....

He announced his intention to change church teaching on capital punishment last October, when he marked the 25th anniversary of the publication of the catechism by announcing his intention to update it. The catechism, first promulgated by St. John Paul II, gives Catholics an easy, go-to guide for church teaching on everything from the sacraments to sex.

He acknowledged that in the past even the Papal States had allowed this “extreme and inhuman recourse.” But he said the Holy See had erred in allowing a mentality that was “more legalistic than Christian” and now knew better.

LOL

I don't believe the church ever claimed it to be moral in the first place.

Wrong.

Can you show me where?

I showed you where the churches official position has just changed. They are now 100% against it. Yesterday they had a different position.

400 years ago the church executed Giordano Bruno just for suggesting the earth wasn’t the center of the universe