Atheists are hoping aliens from outer space will contact us...

[Boss]

RWS ...I forgot to address the previous exchange we were having about "judgement" and I wanted to clarify something. I realize that word triggered you a bit. What I want you to do is set aside the religious connotations of a Christian God sitting in judgement on His throne.... just lock that thought away for a minute, okay? Now... I want you to instead, think about "judgement" more in terms of a natural culling.... like natural selection. In a sense, doesn't nature cast judgement on species when it renders them extinct? If a certain species doesn't meet adequate requirements of reproduction it goes extinct. I believe your soul follows the same "spiritually natural" course. It will either meet it's requirements or it won't. If it doesn't, it's going to be culled and not allowed to pass on to a higher plane of existence. The only difference is your soul is eternal and can't go extinct.

Boss just declared gravity to be a spirit God. This God must have been the one who judged my dropped coin and made it always (so far) go down.

You need to seek some mental help. Seriously. You've literally spent days on this thread, faithfully battling the God believers like a good little Atheist warrior but it is making you really crack up. Your attempts to mock aren't even hitting their mark anymore... you just sound like a mentally unhinged moron.

 

[MarkDuffy]

I think you have that backwards or you are an easy grader on civilization. I equate spirituality with religion and they came waaay before civilization.

No, I don't think I have anything backwards, nor have your proven such. Your grading of my intelligence is irrelevant and is simply a part of your bullying technique in the arena of debate where you are poorly qualified. It's a shame because you seem relatively well-learned but what you're lacking is objectivity and honesty. You continue to try to enforce your opinions as facts and denigrate anyone who disagrees with you.

We don't know precisely when organized religions began. I've read accounts that vary from 20,000~10,000 BC but this is just the evidence we've discovered, there may have been earlier religions that we've yet to find evidence of. In any event, human spirituality existed 100,000 years ago when humans at Qafzeh were using red ocher and ritualistically burying their dead.

If you cannot see how close we are anatomically & genetically, then it cannot be proved to you.

We all are neotenous apes. The other apes and us look almost identical as infants and the normal features develop during childhood (neoteny)

How something looks has not a damn thing to do with ancestry OR science. That would fall in the category of "conventional wisdom" and science has made it's bread and butter on disproving that. What you need and don't have is solid evidence, not speculation based on conventional wisdom.

It sounds like you claim intelligence is something all life should strive for; that evolution has both a purpose and a destination. It doesn't. I would say we are very lucky we got intelligence in ONE species. It looks like intelligence was starting to take off in dinosaurs (raptors) before they were slaughtered, but they have the useless arm/hand issue.

LMAO... Well instead of going by what it "sounds like" why don't you go by what I fucking SAY? That would avoid me having to constantly address your misconceptions and misinterpretations. I didn't make any of the arguments you're imagining here, I simply asked a question, which you conveniently avoided and resorted to yet another personal attack and interjection of your unfounded and unsupported opinion.

Well, as I have said before, what you call spirit, I call consciousness. So here you get a big DUH!

Well okay, explain human consciousness?

It is one of the most familiar and most mysterious aspects of our lives. We have struggled to comprehend the nature of it or even define it's essential properties. We can't explain it mechanistically or even determine if non-humans have it or how to recognize it if they do.

So there is something just a little problematic with substituting spirituality for consciousness because you are simply exchanging one enigma for another of equal value.

The remains exhibit a mix of traits found in archaic and anatomically modern humans. They have been tentatively dated at about 80,000-120,000 years old using electron paramagnetic resonance and thermoluminescence dating techniques.[5] The brain case is similar to modern humans, but they possess brow ridges and a projecting facial profile like Neandertals. They were initially regarded as transitional from Neandertals to anatomically modern humans, or as hybrids between Neandertals and modern humans.

If the dates are correct for these individuals, then it is possible that Neandertals and early moderns did make contact in the region and it may be possible that the Skhul and Qafzeh hominids are partially of Neandertal descent.

Skhul and Qafzeh hominins - Wikipedia

 

[MarkDuffy]

I believe that man has to invent a God he can relate to and this is why God has these attributes. MY God is more like an energy source... like nuclear power or electricity. It's there for our benefit if we choose to utilize it. It doesn't "care" if we do or not. It doesn't get hurt feelings if we don't worship it.

However.... I do believe that our spirits will ultimately be judged based on our earthly deeds.

By whom?

I don't know... something. Probably whatever Spiritual Force gave us souls.

As I explained (apparently you ignored it), I believe this because rationality tells me there must be some fundamental reason our spirits are guided toward goodness... good things... good deeds... love... as opposed to the opposite. Now, maybe I am wrong? I'm willing to take the chance that I'm not wrong and attempt to live a moral and ethical life while nurturing my soul. But honestly, from the bottom of my heart... I couldn't give one rat's ass whether you do that or not. That is MY personal belief and that's all.

Evolution favors those organisms that don't try to kill each other constantly. That explains the "good" that you attribute to a supernatural entity.

Only humans regularly try to kill each other, and they do it over their blind beliefs in a human-created religion or political system, and that's why we probably won't survive.

I live a moral and ethical life, without the need to follow Santa Claus. I do think there may be some sort of central force that combines us all, but I have no idea what it is, nor will I argue for it. It could just be some sort of quantum entanglement. Who knows? I only argue to get some sense into people, so that they stop killing each other over beliefs, and so that we don't become extinct due to bullshit.

But you're very passive/aggressive, so I don't think you're following the "good" path right now. Jus sayin.

First, you need to stop thinking you're the smartest thing on the planet and curb your arrogance. Because you're part of the problem at this point. That's the same way that religious fanatics think.

Dude? Don't you ever watch Animal Planet, Nat Geo, Wild Kingdom... Lion King? Other animals kill each other all the time! I could actually make the argument that because of our spirituality, we are LESS likely to kill each other! I know that may sound bizarre to you but think about it... at some point, some cave man had to lay down beside another cave man of a different tribe and trust he wasn't going to kill him and his family in the middle of the night and steal his stuff. A mutual spirit greater than self would help provide that kind of trust and faith.

You SAY that you have a moral and ethical life but I've never known any human to say anything different. Obviously, some humans are lying, don't you agree? If you don't have any accountability for your morality and ethics they are only as strong as your character in a given situation. In other words, your morals can change depending on circumstances.

As for your comments about me following the good path... wait a minute Chester, I'm a peaceful man. In my personal life, I am benevolent, tolerant, kind and accepting of others. I do selfless acts almost daily and don't expect anything in return. I'm quite a different person than I come across here sometimes. The reason I post like I do is because, if you don't, you get run over and bullied. I've been posting on forums a long time and I've developed certain habits and a certain way of posting. If I come across as arrogant it's usually because I am responding to arrogance. I don't think I am the smartest person on the planet but I have confidence I am reasonably intelligent. I would say, 90% of the people here who don't like me, it's because at some point in the past, I've pissed them off by refuting their arguments with fact and logic and that embarrassed them. If there is one thing about me in real life that's the same as me here, it's that I am a straight shooter... I'm going to tell you what I think.

Dude? Don't you ever watch Animal Planet, Nat Geo, Wild Kingdom... Lion King? Other animals kill each other all the time!

They do?

Do you have video links to let's say The Lion Wars?

I could actually make the argument that because of our spirituality, we are LESS likely to kill each other!

Yeah, we are sooo peaceful. The history books full of war. The Bible with God ordering war.

 

[Boss]

I think you have that backwards or you are an easy grader on civilization. I equate spirituality with religion and they came waaay before civilization.

No, I don't think I have anything backwards, nor have your proven such. Your grading of my intelligence is irrelevant and is simply a part of your bullying technique in the arena of debate where you are poorly qualified. It's a shame because you seem relatively well-learned but what you're lacking is objectivity and honesty. You continue to try to enforce your opinions as facts and denigrate anyone who disagrees with you.

We don't know precisely when organized religions began. I've read accounts that vary from 20,000~10,000 BC but this is just the evidence we've discovered, there may have been earlier religions that we've yet to find evidence of. In any event, human spirituality existed 100,000 years ago when humans at Qafzeh were using red ocher and ritualistically burying their dead.

If you cannot see how close we are anatomically & genetically, then it cannot be proved to you.

We all are neotenous apes. The other apes and us look almost identical as infants and the normal features develop during childhood (neoteny)

How something looks has not a damn thing to do with ancestry OR science. That would fall in the category of "conventional wisdom" and science has made it's bread and butter on disproving that. What you need and don't have is solid evidence, not speculation based on conventional wisdom.

It sounds like you claim intelligence is something all life should strive for; that evolution has both a purpose and a destination. It doesn't. I would say we are very lucky we got intelligence in ONE species. It looks like intelligence was starting to take off in dinosaurs (raptors) before they were slaughtered, but they have the useless arm/hand issue.

LMAO... Well instead of going by what it "sounds like" why don't you go by what I fucking SAY? That would avoid me having to constantly address your misconceptions and misinterpretations. I didn't make any of the arguments you're imagining here, I simply asked a question, which you conveniently avoided and resorted to yet another personal attack and interjection of your unfounded and unsupported opinion.

Well, as I have said before, what you call spirit, I call consciousness. So here you get a big DUH!

Well okay, explain human consciousness?

It is one of the most familiar and most mysterious aspects of our lives. We have struggled to comprehend the nature of it or even define it's essential properties. We can't explain it mechanistically or even determine if non-humans have it or how to recognize it if they do.

So there is something just a little problematic with substituting spirituality for consciousness because you are simply exchanging one enigma for another of equal value.

The remains exhibit a mix of traits found in archaic and anatomically modern humans. They have been tentatively dated at about 80,000-120,000 years old using electron paramagnetic resonance and thermoluminescence dating techniques.[5] The brain case is similar to modern humans, but they possess brow ridges and a projecting facial profile like Neandertals. They were initially regarded as transitional from Neandertals to anatomically modern humans, or as hybrids between Neandertals and modern humans.

If the dates are correct for these individuals, then it is possible that Neandertals and early moderns did make contact in the region and it may be possible that the Skhul and Qafzeh hominids are partially of Neandertal descent.

Skhul and Qafzeh hominins - Wikipedia

So fucking what? Neanderthalis and Homo Sapien are both part of the genus Homo! I've repeatedly admitted there is evidence of microevolution (evolution within a genus taxon). So I don't know what you're attempting to prove here. These are the oldest remains of anything like a human and they were practicing some form of spirituality. To argue that spirituality was some sort of "invention" you have to show when and where it was invented. You can't show us that! Every example you find, spirituality already exists. That has been MY point all along... thanks for reinforcing it!

 

[MarkDuffy]

RWS ...I forgot to address the previous exchange we were having about "judgement" and I wanted to clarify something. I realize that word triggered you a bit. What I want you to do is set aside the religious connotations of a Christian God sitting in judgement on His throne.... just lock that thought away for a minute, okay? Now... I want you to instead, think about "judgement" more in terms of a natural culling.... like natural selection. In a sense, doesn't nature cast judgement on species when it renders them extinct? If a certain species doesn't meet adequate requirements of reproduction it goes extinct. I believe your soul follows the same "spiritually natural" course. It will either meet it's requirements or it won't. If it doesn't, it's going to be culled and not allowed to pass on to a higher plane of existence. The only difference is your soul is eternal and can't go extinct.

Boss just declared gravity to be a spirit God. This God must have been the one who judged my dropped coin and made it always (so far) go down.

You need to seek some mental help. Seriously. You've literally spent days on this thread, faithfully battling the God believers like a good little Atheist warrior but it is making you really crack up. Your attempts to mock aren't even hitting their mark anymore... you just sound like a mentally unhinged moron.

and he claims I'm the one who insults. LOL

Well, you just turned natural selection into a God that judges, so why not gravity?

 

[Boss]

I believe that man has to invent a God he can relate to and this is why God has these attributes. MY God is more like an energy source... like nuclear power or electricity. It's there for our benefit if we choose to utilize it. It doesn't "care" if we do or not. It doesn't get hurt feelings if we don't worship it.

However.... I do believe that our spirits will ultimately be judged based on our earthly deeds.

By whom?

I don't know... something. Probably whatever Spiritual Force gave us souls.

As I explained (apparently you ignored it), I believe this because rationality tells me there must be some fundamental reason our spirits are guided toward goodness... good things... good deeds... love... as opposed to the opposite. Now, maybe I am wrong? I'm willing to take the chance that I'm not wrong and attempt to live a moral and ethical life while nurturing my soul. But honestly, from the bottom of my heart... I couldn't give one rat's ass whether you do that or not. That is MY personal belief and that's all.

Evolution favors those organisms that don't try to kill each other constantly. That explains the "good" that you attribute to a supernatural entity.

Only humans regularly try to kill each other, and they do it over their blind beliefs in a human-created religion or political system, and that's why we probably won't survive.

I live a moral and ethical life, without the need to follow Santa Claus. I do think there may be some sort of central force that combines us all, but I have no idea what it is, nor will I argue for it. It could just be some sort of quantum entanglement. Who knows? I only argue to get some sense into people, so that they stop killing each other over beliefs, and so that we don't become extinct due to bullshit.

But you're very passive/aggressive, so I don't think you're following the "good" path right now. Jus sayin.

First, you need to stop thinking you're the smartest thing on the planet and curb your arrogance. Because you're part of the problem at this point. That's the same way that religious fanatics think.

Dude? Don't you ever watch Animal Planet, Nat Geo, Wild Kingdom... Lion King? Other animals kill each other all the time! I could actually make the argument that because of our spirituality, we are LESS likely to kill each other! I know that may sound bizarre to you but think about it... at some point, some cave man had to lay down beside another cave man of a different tribe and trust he wasn't going to kill him and his family in the middle of the night and steal his stuff. A mutual spirit greater than self would help provide that kind of trust and faith.

You SAY that you have a moral and ethical life but I've never known any human to say anything different. Obviously, some humans are lying, don't you agree? If you don't have any accountability for your morality and ethics they are only as strong as your character in a given situation. In other words, your morals can change depending on circumstances.

As for your comments about me following the good path... wait a minute Chester, I'm a peaceful man. In my personal life, I am benevolent, tolerant, kind and accepting of others. I do selfless acts almost daily and don't expect anything in return. I'm quite a different person than I come across here sometimes. The reason I post like I do is because, if you don't, you get run over and bullied. I've been posting on forums a long time and I've developed certain habits and a certain way of posting. If I come across as arrogant it's usually because I am responding to arrogance. I don't think I am the smartest person on the planet but I have confidence I am reasonably intelligent. I would say, 90% of the people here who don't like me, it's because at some point in the past, I've pissed them off by refuting their arguments with fact and logic and that embarrassed them. If there is one thing about me in real life that's the same as me here, it's that I am a straight shooter... I'm going to tell you what I think.

Dude? Don't you ever watch Animal Planet, Nat Geo, Wild Kingdom... Lion King? Other animals kill each other all the time!

They do?

Do you have video links to let's say The Lion Wars?

I could actually make the argument that because of our spirituality, we are LESS likely to kill each other!

Yeah, we are sooo peaceful. The history books full of war. The Bible with God ordering war.

And history is also full of averted wars that were never fought because cooler heads prevailed.

 

[MarkDuffy]

I think you have that backwards or you are an easy grader on civilization. I equate spirituality with religion and they came waaay before civilization.

No, I don't think I have anything backwards, nor have your proven such. Your grading of my intelligence is irrelevant and is simply a part of your bullying technique in the arena of debate where you are poorly qualified. It's a shame because you seem relatively well-learned but what you're lacking is objectivity and honesty. You continue to try to enforce your opinions as facts and denigrate anyone who disagrees with you.

We don't know precisely when organized religions began. I've read accounts that vary from 20,000~10,000 BC but this is just the evidence we've discovered, there may have been earlier religions that we've yet to find evidence of. In any event, human spirituality existed 100,000 years ago when humans at Qafzeh were using red ocher and ritualistically burying their dead.

If you cannot see how close we are anatomically & genetically, then it cannot be proved to you.

We all are neotenous apes. The other apes and us look almost identical as infants and the normal features develop during childhood (neoteny)

How something looks has not a damn thing to do with ancestry OR science. That would fall in the category of "conventional wisdom" and science has made it's bread and butter on disproving that. What you need and don't have is solid evidence, not speculation based on conventional wisdom.

It sounds like you claim intelligence is something all life should strive for; that evolution has both a purpose and a destination. It doesn't. I would say we are very lucky we got intelligence in ONE species. It looks like intelligence was starting to take off in dinosaurs (raptors) before they were slaughtered, but they have the useless arm/hand issue.

LMAO... Well instead of going by what it "sounds like" why don't you go by what I fucking SAY? That would avoid me having to constantly address your misconceptions and misinterpretations. I didn't make any of the arguments you're imagining here, I simply asked a question, which you conveniently avoided and resorted to yet another personal attack and interjection of your unfounded and unsupported opinion.

Well, as I have said before, what you call spirit, I call consciousness. So here you get a big DUH!

Well okay, explain human consciousness?

It is one of the most familiar and most mysterious aspects of our lives. We have struggled to comprehend the nature of it or even define it's essential properties. We can't explain it mechanistically or even determine if non-humans have it or how to recognize it if they do.

So there is something just a little problematic with substituting spirituality for consciousness because you are simply exchanging one enigma for another of equal value.

The remains exhibit a mix of traits found in archaic and anatomically modern humans. They have been tentatively dated at about 80,000-120,000 years old using electron paramagnetic resonance and thermoluminescence dating techniques.[5] The brain case is similar to modern humans, but they possess brow ridges and a projecting facial profile like Neandertals. They were initially regarded as transitional from Neandertals to anatomically modern humans, or as hybrids between Neandertals and modern humans.

If the dates are correct for these individuals, then it is possible that Neandertals and early moderns did make contact in the region and it may be possible that the Skhul and Qafzeh hominids are partially of Neandertal descent.

Skhul and Qafzeh hominins - Wikipedia

So fucking what? Neanderthalis and Homo Sapien are both part of the genus Homo! I've repeatedly admitted there is evidence of microevolution (evolution within a genus taxon). So I don't know what you're attempting to prove here. These are the oldest remains of anything like a human and they were practicing some form of spirituality. To argue that spirituality was some sort of "invention" you have to show when and where it was invented. You can't show us that! Every example you find, spirituality already exists. That has been MY point all along... thanks for reinforcing it!

The point is that Neandertals buried their dead and had spirituality first. They died out. Spirituality did not save them. You forgot the argument already?

 

[Boss]

The point is that Neandertals buried their dead and had spirituality first. They died out. Spirituality did not save them. You forgot the argument already?

No, they didn't have it first. You've not established that. You are not showing me Neanderthals. The speculation is this particular find may have been a combined species or hybrid. Now there have been finds in Europe of pure Neanderthals practicing spirituality late in the species timespan but this predates that by a good bit.

 

[MarkDuffy]

I'm done for today. A teaser for tomorrow.

I will teach you why it was girl power we have language.

As promised

Where did language come from?

Primitive man is called a hunter/gatherer, but this is really putting lipstick on a pig. We were scavengers, like hyenas. The meat animals ran faster than us and we had clubs. No contest.

Anyhoo, who was the hunter? Man Who was the gatherer? Woman

Who takes care of the kiddies and teaches them? Woman

Now, let's take a close look at the hunter man. He needed to be sneaky. He needed to be quiet to get close to the prey. Hand signals.

Now let's take a look at gatherer woman. Predators around. Let's make noise to scare them away & more importantly keep them away, cuz the animals know there might be men around with clubs. Notice woman's voice is higher pitched? It carries great distances to yell out for help, for example. So we have a bunch of gathering women making a lot of noise, while we have a bunch of men being very quiet.

Shazaam!

 

[MarkDuffy]

The point is that Neandertals buried their dead and had spirituality first. They died out. Spirituality did not save them. You forgot the argument already?

No, they didn't have it first. You've not established that. You are not showing me Neanderthals. The speculation is this particular find may have been a combined species or hybrid. Now there have been finds in Europe of pure Neanderthals practicing spirituality late in the species timespan but this predates that by a good bit.

Actual digging of graves as opposed to stuffing a carcass into the back of a cave with jewelry they wore every day.

 

[Boss]

Actual digging of graves as opposed to stuffing a carcass into the back of a cave with jewelry they wore every day.

Well digging graves has a physical (practical) purpose. It keeps the rotting corpse from smelling and attracting insects or other critters. You have no practical physical purpose for a ritual ceremony using red ocher other than spiritualism.

 

[Boss]

Now let's take a look at gatherer woman. Predators around. Let's make noise to scare them away & more importantly keep them away, cuz the animals know there might be men around with clubs. Notice woman's voice is higher pitched? It carries great distances to yell out for help, for example. So we have a bunch of gathering women making a lot of noise, while we have a bunch of men being very quiet.

Shazaam!

Speculative bullshit.

 

[MarkDuffy]

Actual digging of graves as opposed to stuffing a carcass into the back of a cave with jewelry they wore every day.

Well digging graves has a physical (practical) purpose. It keeps the rotting corpse from smelling and attracting insects or other critters. You have no practical physical purpose for a ritual ceremony using red ocher other than spiritualism.

You don't have to believe in God to wear jewelry and makeup. The claim of ritual ceremony is a conclusion.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

So you believe homo-sapien-sapien may have descended from other apes?

Homo sapiens are Hominids. It's possible we had common ancestry at one time with apes. If that is true, and it's only a theory at this time, it is an example of MICRO evolution. Our genus taxon is Hominid. We are not apes.

Priceless. Boss surrenders again. It is macroevolution

We ARE apes

Now... Let's go from here and have an objective look... Obviously, humans are far more advanced, civilized, intelligent and accomplished than great apes.

In human terms yes

What do you think is responsible for that?

Random luck

If you say it is brain development, why didn't the great apes evolve with more developed brains?

They did. We call the endpoint of that evolution ~ wait fer it ~ man

What made our species so lucky?

Time & a big asteroid

We're made of the same stuff...

Everything is made of the same stuff

we belong to the same genus...

Who is this we, Pilgrim? Not all apes belong to the same genus.

yet there is a profound difference in our evolutionary path. What is responsible for that?

Need I repeat myself?

Here is what I think... at some point, there was some outside intervention from something that bestowed human spirituality on our species. Made us spiritually aware and conscious. And it is because of that we developed better brains, more intelligence, ability to form civilizations, languages, creative inspiration, etc.

Oh goodie, today's new Boss Story! Before ~ we were born with spirit. Now ~ spirit has to be given to us.

The fossil record you love to ignore clearly shows the brain came first, your misunderstanding of spirituality came after.

How do you feel about the simple fact that Neandertals had spirit while we did not? Spirit didn't help them much. Kinda looks like spitituality is a primitive characteristic.

Priceless. Boss surrenders again. It is macroevolution

You're right, it would be macroevolution because Hominid is the taxon family and not genus. Our genus is Homo. Still, it is possible that cross-genus evolution happened. We have no direct evidence of it but that doesn't mean it isn't possible. And I know that you get a kick outta claiming I've "surrendered" when I clarify something but that's not me surrendering. In this case, I was wrong and I admitted it. Most of the time, it's you misinterpreting something that I have to correct.

We ARE apes

You need to prove that.

They did. We call the endpoint of that evolution ~ wait fer it ~ man

First of all, you've not proven we're descendants. Secondly, apes still exist. My question is, why have they not developed advanced brain function like humans? You popped off some smart assery about asteroids but asteroids didn't hinder evolution for apes.

Who is this we, Pilgrim? Not all apes belong to the same genus.

All apes belong to the Hominid family.

Oh goodie, today's new Boss Story! Before ~ we were born with spirit. Now ~ spirit has to be given to us.

I didn't say that.

We DO have spiritual awareness. This is apparent in humans dating back to the oldest civilization of humans we've ever discovered. It seems to coincide with our "rise" and my belief is that something bestowed that on us. There is a distinct correlation with our advancement and our spirituality. I can't prove this, never claimed I could. It's just what makes sense to me personally.

How do you feel about the simple fact that Neandertals had spirit while we did not?

Well this is simply not true. The evidence shows, for the most part, Neanderthals were not practicing spirituality for most of their existence. (They also never formed civilizations.) There has been some recent evidence that European Neanderthals, near the end of their existence, practiced crude spiritual rituals. We don't know why but it's strongly suspected they were merely trying to survive by mimicking their homo sapien counterparts. Apparently, it was too little, too late for the Neanderthal.

"You need to prove that."

Haha....no. Nobody needs to spend an ounce of energy proving accepted scientific theories and facts to you. Being that they are scientific theories and facts, your belief in them or lack thereof is your problem alone and has no bearing on the truth of them. You really need to get that through your head.

 

[MarkDuffy]

Massive genetic study shows how humans are evolving
Analysis of 215,000 people's DNA suggests variants that shorten life are being selected against.

Massive genetic study shows how humans are evolving ~ Nature

 

[MarkDuffy]

So you believe homo-sapien-sapien may have descended from other apes?

Homo sapiens are Hominids. It's possible we had common ancestry at one time with apes. If that is true, and it's only a theory at this time, it is an example of MICRO evolution. Our genus taxon is Hominid. We are not apes.

Priceless. Boss surrenders again. It is macroevolution

We ARE apes

Now... Let's go from here and have an objective look... Obviously, humans are far more advanced, civilized, intelligent and accomplished than great apes.

In human terms yes

What do you think is responsible for that?

Random luck

If you say it is brain development, why didn't the great apes evolve with more developed brains?

They did. We call the endpoint of that evolution ~ wait fer it ~ man

What made our species so lucky?

Time & a big asteroid

We're made of the same stuff...

Everything is made of the same stuff

we belong to the same genus...

Who is this we, Pilgrim? Not all apes belong to the same genus.

yet there is a profound difference in our evolutionary path. What is responsible for that?

Need I repeat myself?

Here is what I think... at some point, there was some outside intervention from something that bestowed human spirituality on our species. Made us spiritually aware and conscious. And it is because of that we developed better brains, more intelligence, ability to form civilizations, languages, creative inspiration, etc.

Oh goodie, today's new Boss Story! Before ~ we were born with spirit. Now ~ spirit has to be given to us.

The fossil record you love to ignore clearly shows the brain came first, your misunderstanding of spirituality came after.

How do you feel about the simple fact that Neandertals had spirit while we did not? Spirit didn't help them much. Kinda looks like spitituality is a primitive characteristic.

Priceless. Boss surrenders again. It is macroevolution

You're right, it would be macroevolution because Hominid is the taxon family and not genus. Our genus is Homo. Still, it is possible that cross-genus evolution happened. We have no direct evidence of it but that doesn't mean it isn't possible. And I know that you get a kick outta claiming I've "surrendered" when I clarify something but that's not me surrendering. In this case, I was wrong and I admitted it. Most of the time, it's you misinterpreting something that I have to correct.

We ARE apes

You need to prove that.

They did. We call the endpoint of that evolution ~ wait fer it ~ man

First of all, you've not proven we're descendants. Secondly, apes still exist. My question is, why have they not developed advanced brain function like humans? You popped off some smart assery about asteroids but asteroids didn't hinder evolution for apes.

Who is this we, Pilgrim? Not all apes belong to the same genus.

All apes belong to the Hominid family.

Oh goodie, today's new Boss Story! Before ~ we were born with spirit. Now ~ spirit has to be given to us.

I didn't say that.

We DO have spiritual awareness. This is apparent in humans dating back to the oldest civilization of humans we've ever discovered. It seems to coincide with our "rise" and my belief is that something bestowed that on us. There is a distinct correlation with our advancement and our spirituality. I can't prove this, never claimed I could. It's just what makes sense to me personally.

How do you feel about the simple fact that Neandertals had spirit while we did not?

Well this is simply not true. The evidence shows, for the most part, Neanderthals were not practicing spirituality for most of their existence. (They also never formed civilizations.) There has been some recent evidence that European Neanderthals, near the end of their existence, practiced crude spiritual rituals. We don't know why but it's strongly suspected they were merely trying to survive by mimicking their homo sapien counterparts. Apparently, it was too little, too late for the Neanderthal.

"You need to prove that."

Haha....no. Nobody needs to spend an ounce of energy proving accepted scientific theories and facts to you. Being that they are scientific theories and facts, your belief in them or lack thereof is your problem alone and has no bearing on the truth of them. You really need to get that through your head.

Boss cracks me up. We need to prove (aka an impossible feat), but he never does. Only he knows the facts & then amazingly claims there are no facts.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

So you believe homo-sapien-sapien may have descended from other apes?

Homo sapiens are Hominids. It's possible we had common ancestry at one time with apes. If that is true, and it's only a theory at this time, it is an example of MICRO evolution. Our genus taxon is Hominid. We are not apes.

Priceless. Boss surrenders again. It is macroevolution

We ARE apes

Now... Let's go from here and have an objective look... Obviously, humans are far more advanced, civilized, intelligent and accomplished than great apes.

In human terms yes

What do you think is responsible for that?

Random luck

If you say it is brain development, why didn't the great apes evolve with more developed brains?

They did. We call the endpoint of that evolution ~ wait fer it ~ man

What made our species so lucky?

Time & a big asteroid

We're made of the same stuff...

Everything is made of the same stuff

we belong to the same genus...

Who is this we, Pilgrim? Not all apes belong to the same genus.

yet there is a profound difference in our evolutionary path. What is responsible for that?

Need I repeat myself?

Here is what I think... at some point, there was some outside intervention from something that bestowed human spirituality on our species. Made us spiritually aware and conscious. And it is because of that we developed better brains, more intelligence, ability to form civilizations, languages, creative inspiration, etc.

Oh goodie, today's new Boss Story! Before ~ we were born with spirit. Now ~ spirit has to be given to us.

The fossil record you love to ignore clearly shows the brain came first, your misunderstanding of spirituality came after.

How do you feel about the simple fact that Neandertals had spirit while we did not? Spirit didn't help them much. Kinda looks like spitituality is a primitive characteristic.

Priceless. Boss surrenders again. It is macroevolution

You're right, it would be macroevolution because Hominid is the taxon family and not genus. Our genus is Homo. Still, it is possible that cross-genus evolution happened. We have no direct evidence of it but that doesn't mean it isn't possible. And I know that you get a kick outta claiming I've "surrendered" when I clarify something but that's not me surrendering. In this case, I was wrong and I admitted it. Most of the time, it's you misinterpreting something that I have to correct.

We ARE apes

You need to prove that.

They did. We call the endpoint of that evolution ~ wait fer it ~ man

First of all, you've not proven we're descendants. Secondly, apes still exist. My question is, why have they not developed advanced brain function like humans? You popped off some smart assery about asteroids but asteroids didn't hinder evolution for apes.

Who is this we, Pilgrim? Not all apes belong to the same genus.

All apes belong to the Hominid family.

Oh goodie, today's new Boss Story! Before ~ we were born with spirit. Now ~ spirit has to be given to us.

I didn't say that.

We DO have spiritual awareness. This is apparent in humans dating back to the oldest civilization of humans we've ever discovered. It seems to coincide with our "rise" and my belief is that something bestowed that on us. There is a distinct correlation with our advancement and our spirituality. I can't prove this, never claimed I could. It's just what makes sense to me personally.

How do you feel about the simple fact that Neandertals had spirit while we did not?

Well this is simply not true. The evidence shows, for the most part, Neanderthals were not practicing spirituality for most of their existence. (They also never formed civilizations.) There has been some recent evidence that European Neanderthals, near the end of their existence, practiced crude spiritual rituals. We don't know why but it's strongly suspected they were merely trying to survive by mimicking their homo sapien counterparts. Apparently, it was too little, too late for the Neanderthal.

"You need to prove that."

Haha....no. Nobody needs to spend an ounce of energy proving accepted scientific theories and facts to you. Being that they are scientific theories and facts, your belief in them or lack thereof is your problem alone and has no bearing on the truth of them. You really need to get that through your head.

Boss cracks me up. We need to prove (aka an impossible feat), but he never does. Only he knows the facts & then amazingly claims there are no facts.

Oh, I know. It's the same thing every time. Now ask him what would constitute "proof" to him. The answers you get will range from absurd to impossible.

 

[sealybobo]

So you believe homo-sapien-sapien may have descended from other apes?

Homo sapiens are Hominids. It's possible we had common ancestry at one time with apes. If that is true, and it's only a theory at this time, it is an example of MICRO evolution. Our genus taxon is Hominid. We are not apes.

Priceless. Boss surrenders again. It is macroevolution

We ARE apes

Now... Let's go from here and have an objective look... Obviously, humans are far more advanced, civilized, intelligent and accomplished than great apes.

In human terms yes

What do you think is responsible for that?

Random luck

If you say it is brain development, why didn't the great apes evolve with more developed brains?

They did. We call the endpoint of that evolution ~ wait fer it ~ man

What made our species so lucky?

Time & a big asteroid

We're made of the same stuff...

Everything is made of the same stuff

we belong to the same genus...

Who is this we, Pilgrim? Not all apes belong to the same genus.

yet there is a profound difference in our evolutionary path. What is responsible for that?

Need I repeat myself?

Here is what I think... at some point, there was some outside intervention from something that bestowed human spirituality on our species. Made us spiritually aware and conscious. And it is because of that we developed better brains, more intelligence, ability to form civilizations, languages, creative inspiration, etc.

Oh goodie, today's new Boss Story! Before ~ we were born with spirit. Now ~ spirit has to be given to us.

The fossil record you love to ignore clearly shows the brain came first, your misunderstanding of spirituality came after.

How do you feel about the simple fact that Neandertals had spirit while we did not? Spirit didn't help them much. Kinda looks like spitituality is a primitive characteristic.

Priceless. Boss surrenders again. It is macroevolution

You're right, it would be macroevolution because Hominid is the taxon family and not genus. Our genus is Homo. Still, it is possible that cross-genus evolution happened. We have no direct evidence of it but that doesn't mean it isn't possible. And I know that you get a kick outta claiming I've "surrendered" when I clarify something but that's not me surrendering. In this case, I was wrong and I admitted it. Most of the time, it's you misinterpreting something that I have to correct.

We ARE apes

You need to prove that.

They did. We call the endpoint of that evolution ~ wait fer it ~ man

First of all, you've not proven we're descendants. Secondly, apes still exist. My question is, why have they not developed advanced brain function like humans? You popped off some smart assery about asteroids but asteroids didn't hinder evolution for apes.

Who is this we, Pilgrim? Not all apes belong to the same genus.

All apes belong to the Hominid family.

Oh goodie, today's new Boss Story! Before ~ we were born with spirit. Now ~ spirit has to be given to us.

I didn't say that.

We DO have spiritual awareness. This is apparent in humans dating back to the oldest civilization of humans we've ever discovered. It seems to coincide with our "rise" and my belief is that something bestowed that on us. There is a distinct correlation with our advancement and our spirituality. I can't prove this, never claimed I could. It's just what makes sense to me personally.

How do you feel about the simple fact that Neandertals had spirit while we did not?

Well this is simply not true. The evidence shows, for the most part, Neanderthals were not practicing spirituality for most of their existence. (They also never formed civilizations.) There has been some recent evidence that European Neanderthals, near the end of their existence, practiced crude spiritual rituals. We don't know why but it's strongly suspected they were merely trying to survive by mimicking their homo sapien counterparts. Apparently, it was too little, too late for the Neanderthal.

"You need to prove that."

Haha....no. Nobody needs to spend an ounce of energy proving accepted scientific theories and facts to you. Being that they are scientific theories and facts, your belief in them or lack thereof is your problem alone and has no bearing on the truth of them. You really need to get that through your head.

Boss cracks me up. We need to prove (aka an impossible feat), but he never does. Only he knows the facts & then amazingly claims there are no facts.

And he believes that because primitive humans believed it must be true.

So our ancestors were superstitious and made shit up.

I bet dolphins are smart enough to ponder this and they believe they are his chosen ones. Out here to rule the seas. And one time they were evil and God sent a great drout

But in bosses mind them believing in God would be even more evidence of god

 

[RWS]

I believe that man has to invent a God he can relate to and this is why God has these attributes. MY God is more like an energy source... like nuclear power or electricity. It's there for our benefit if we choose to utilize it. It doesn't "care" if we do or not. It doesn't get hurt feelings if we don't worship it.

However.... I do believe that our spirits will ultimately be judged based on our earthly deeds.

By whom?

I don't know... something. Probably whatever Spiritual Force gave us souls.

As I explained (apparently you ignored it), I believe this because rationality tells me there must be some fundamental reason our spirits are guided toward goodness... good things... good deeds... love... as opposed to the opposite. Now, maybe I am wrong? I'm willing to take the chance that I'm not wrong and attempt to live a moral and ethical life while nurturing my soul. But honestly, from the bottom of my heart... I couldn't give one rat's ass whether you do that or not. That is MY personal belief and that's all.

Evolution favors those organisms that don't try to kill each other constantly. That explains the "good" that you attribute to a supernatural entity.

Only humans regularly try to kill each other, and they do it over their blind beliefs in a human-created religion or political system, and that's why we probably won't survive.

I live a moral and ethical life, without the need to follow Santa Claus. I do think there may be some sort of central force that combines us all, but I have no idea what it is, nor will I argue for it. It could just be some sort of quantum entanglement. Who knows? I only argue to get some sense into people, so that they stop killing each other over beliefs, and so that we don't become extinct due to bullshit.

But you're very passive/aggressive, so I don't think you're following the "good" path right now. Jus sayin.

First, you need to stop thinking you're the smartest thing on the planet and curb your arrogance. Because you're part of the problem at this point. That's the same way that religious fanatics think.

Dude? Don't you ever watch Animal Planet, Nat Geo, Wild Kingdom... Lion King? Other animals kill each other all the time! I could actually make the argument that because of our spirituality, we are LESS likely to kill each other! I know that may sound bizarre to you but think about it... at some point, some cave man had to lay down beside another cave man of a different tribe and trust he wasn't going to kill him and his family in the middle of the night and steal his stuff. A mutual spirit greater than self would help provide that kind of trust and faith.

I grew up on those shows, esp Wild Kingdom. Other animals of the same species do kill each other at times, but it is rare, because obviously evolution does not favor that trait. But humans kill each other at a phenomenal rate. And the big purges are due to wrong beliefs in human-created religions or politics.

You SAY that you have a moral and ethical life but I've never known any human to say anything different. Obviously, some humans are lying, don't you agree? If you don't have any accountability for your morality and ethics they are only as strong as your character in a given situation. In other words, your morals can change depending on circumstances.

No, morals don't change. They are stamped into us early during the period of growth and discovery, and many are instinctual. Only religious/political rulers can get you to do something against your morals. Like killing strangers, because you're told to. And there's a lot of mental health issues that come from having to follow those orders. Morals are trying to stay the same. Having to break those morals based on an order, has a big consequence on what evolution has established.

As for your comments about me following the good path... wait a minute Chester, I'm a peaceful man. In my personal life, I am benevolent, tolerant, kind and accepting of others. I do selfless acts almost daily and don't expect anything in return. I'm quite a different person than I come across here sometimes. The reason I post like I do is because, if you don't, you get run over and bullied. I've been posting on forums a long time and I've developed certain habits and a certain way of posting. If I come across as arrogant it's usually because I am responding to arrogance. I don't think I am the smartest person on the planet but I have confidence I am reasonably intelligent. I would say, 90% of the people here who don't like me, it's because at some point in the past, I've pissed them off by refuting their arguments with fact and logic and that embarrassed them. If there is one thing about me in real life that's the same as me here, it's that I am a straight shooter... I'm going to tell you what I think.

I am the same way. Except, what you consider straight shooting is more of a masse shot.








And on your next post you said:

doesn't nature cast judgement on species when it renders them extinct? If a certain species doesn't meet adequate requirements of reproduction it goes extinct.

That's evolution. There was no judgement cast. Nobody said that that life form was right or wrong. It just couldn't keep up and died out.

 

[BreezeWood]

.

boss: doesn't nature cast judgement on species when it renders them extinct? If a certain species doesn't meet adequate requirements of reproduction it goes extinct.

That's evolution. There was no judgement cast. Nobody said that that life form was right or wrong. It just couldn't keep up and died out.

- If a certain species doesn't meet adequate requirements of reproduction it goes extinct.

how could the bold be related to "nature cast judgement" - so promising a beginning to finish in virtual agreement with RWS.



both quotes are more a statement or justification for the influence of humanity on nature than the true natural effects of Garden Earth and the equally shared aspirations of all living beings.