Atheists are hoping aliens from outer space will contact us...

[MarkDuffy]

Furthermore, it may yet happen that chimpanzees eventually evolve into a species with self-awareness, or language, or art.

THIS is a specious argument. You have ZERO evidence to support this notion. We can postulate all day about what MIGHT happen... Dolphins MIGHT one day walk upright and speculate stock trades on Wall Street.... there's not any evidence to suggest that will happen, but it MIGHT.

We have tons of evidence since we evolved from apes once already.

As far as non-human "spirit"

Mystery Lingers Over Ritual Behavior of New Human Ancestor

 

[MarkDuffy]

"THIS is a specious argument. You have ZERO evidence to support this notion. "

Not so. Every bit of evidence we have at our disposal says it MAY be that chimpanzees also eventually evolve some higher functions, in a few million years, (if left to do so). I didn't guarantee it would happen, I guaranteed that it is a possible.

And, it wasn't an an argument, it was a statement. yes, dolphins MAY walk upright one day, just as their ancestors walked on all fours. of course, they will no longer be dolphins, they will be a new species.

You have ZERO evidence. NONE!

No evidence?

Where did land animals come from? Explain the fossil record.

 

[MarkDuffy]

that's a thin argument, as one can find "inspiration" in any puddle or crack in the sidewalk, if one so chose. "hey, a guy was 'inspired' to put a red handprint on a cave wall"... yeah? Well, beavers are inspired to create complex structures. As are many other animals. are they not inspired/ Of course they are, by their genetics and by their culture. As are we.

You are mistaken to think that entering into the discussion magical, non-physical elements (translation: therefore, they can be anything I want at any time, and also no way to tell if I'm wrong) creates a simpler explanation. For one, it's not an explanation, as it explains nothing at all; you have merely replaced one mystery with another. Second, you have just made everything more complicated, because now we have to explain this phenomenon and others while operating under the assumption that physical causality only exists "sometimes" . Now you have to explain when it exists and when it doesn't, then star over on all of our knowledge we have gained from square one to make sure we didn't "miss the magic".

A much simpler explanation (Occam's razor at work) would be that there is no "non-physical spirit or soul", and that our brains are merely physical systems, operating under all of the same deterministic laws as any other. There, simple as it gets. And guess what? This principle withstands every test of it.

Indeed.... You CAN misuse the word "inspired" and apply it to anything you perceive as inspirational. Humans misapply words and context all the time. We are extremely fallible creatures.

Again, there is nothing "magical" about spirituality. That is YOUR way of taking a backhanded slap at something you don't believe in, understand or accept. Spiritual Nature is very much a natural part of nature. It isn't PHYSICAL nature and that's where your problem lies. You don't believe in spiritual nature and the only existence you can comprehend is physical existence. But I can prove (physically) that your perception of physical reality is incomplete. You have only five senses which can perceive four dimensions of physical reality. There are at least 11 dimensions. There is nothing in physics which mandates your five senses are ALL possible senses. AND... your five senses are never able to observe present time in the present because physics has to happen. The only perception humans have of reality resides in the past. Anything you sense has already happened. It took time for your brain to process the sensation and you to realize it.

Occam's Razor was being applied to the fact that humans are both uniquely inspired and spiritual. The simplest explanation is, there is a correlation.

You're correct that our brains are physical systems. And they function the same as thousands of other mammals with the exception of our unique attribute of inspiration and spirituality, which is pretty much the key to our advancement as a species.

"You CAN misuse the word "inspired" and apply it to anything you perceive as inspirational. "

And let me guess who decides if I have "misused" it: You. that seems pretty convenient. you also seemed to have decided what spirituality is. You define them as unique, and then say their uniqueness is what makes us special. You are rigging thee game. I don't agree that they are necessarily unique. I don't think our inspiration is very much unlike that experienced by other animals, except for a matter of degree.

These unique attributes, no matter how we define them... they are still both completely physical. Do you agree?

LOL you are learning about Boss.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

"

1. of extraordinary quality, as if arising from some external creative impulse."

*** Notice... not "arising from some external impulse", but rather, "as if arising from external impulse".... nope, doesn't make your point. It might even make MY point.

Now you're parsing the definitions? Wow!

Yes, of course I am. If you are going to arbitrarily choose one dictionary service's statement as "the authority", then we are going to inspect what it means. I know you were hoping for a 'Mic drop' there, but this is a discussion, not a lecture.

You asked what is the function of the spirit and why is it necessary?
I replied, we have a word for it... Inspiration.
You misapplied the word to several examples and I called you on it.
You denied you misapplied the word and accused me of determining my own meaning.
I posted the dictionary's definition of the word.
You want to parse the definition.

Anyone with a scroll wheel can roll up the thread and read it all for themselves.

This stopped being a discussion when I answered your question and you responded with nonsense.
You continue to respond with nonsense.
Consider the mic dropped.

I didn't misuse the word inspiration. In fact, the definition you provided from a dictionary source is easily applied to, for instance, beavers building a dam. You have been guilty more than once of assuming as true that which is your burden to argue as true. This is one of those times.

 

[MarkDuffy]

The Bibles says that man was created in God's image, but, oddly enough, does not say what god needs a penis for.

Well, it turns out we do have a problem!

Psalm 23:4 ~ Even though I walk through the darkest valley, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me.

Psalm 23:4 Even though I walk through the darkest valley, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me.

 

[BreezeWood]

But what is the function of the spirit? Why is it necessary?

We developed a special word to describe this.

Inspiration.

the spirit inspires the Zika virus? How? Or, are you saying only humans have spirits? The other poster was being more general.

Apparently it was necessary for the spirit to create Zika.

I wonder if the spirit of the raptured Zika will cause trouble in heaven?

.

Apparently it was necessary for the spirit to create Zika.

I wonder if the spirit of the raptured Zika will cause trouble in heaven?

Apparently it was necessary for the spirit to create Zika.

zika makes the spirit through its life expectancy, individually as not all zika would be admissible to heaven their refined Spirit would be the difference. not the other way around.


only those that Triumph in life are candidates to be Judged by whatever the Almighty of the time determines will be their verdict.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

that's a thin argument, as one can find "inspiration" in any puddle or crack in the sidewalk, if one so chose. "hey, a guy was 'inspired' to put a red handprint on a cave wall"... yeah? Well, beavers are inspired to create complex structures. As are many other animals. are they not inspired/ Of course they are, by their genetics and by their culture. As are we.

You are mistaken to think that entering into the discussion magical, non-physical elements (translation: therefore, they can be anything I want at any time, and also no way to tell if I'm wrong) creates a simpler explanation. For one, it's not an explanation, as it explains nothing at all; you have merely replaced one mystery with another. Second, you have just made everything more complicated, because now we have to explain this phenomenon and others while operating under the assumption that physical causality only exists "sometimes" . Now you have to explain when it exists and when it doesn't, then star over on all of our knowledge we have gained from square one to make sure we didn't "miss the magic".

A much simpler explanation (Occam's razor at work) would be that there is no "non-physical spirit or soul", and that our brains are merely physical systems, operating under all of the same deterministic laws as any other. There, simple as it gets. And guess what? This principle withstands every test of it.

Indeed.... You CAN misuse the word "inspired" and apply it to anything you perceive as inspirational. Humans misapply words and context all the time. We are extremely fallible creatures.

Again, there is nothing "magical" about spirituality. That is YOUR way of taking a backhanded slap at something you don't believe in, understand or accept. Spiritual Nature is very much a natural part of nature. It isn't PHYSICAL nature and that's where your problem lies. You don't believe in spiritual nature and the only existence you can comprehend is physical existence. But I can prove (physically) that your perception of physical reality is incomplete. You have only five senses which can perceive four dimensions of physical reality. There are at least 11 dimensions. There is nothing in physics which mandates your five senses are ALL possible senses. AND... your five senses are never able to observe present time in the present because physics has to happen. The only perception humans have of reality resides in the past. Anything you sense has already happened. It took time for your brain to process the sensation and you to realize it.

Occam's Razor was being applied to the fact that humans are both uniquely inspired and spiritual. The simplest explanation is, there is a correlation.

You're correct that our brains are physical systems. And they function the same as thousands of other mammals with the exception of our unique attribute of inspiration and spirituality, which is pretty much the key to our advancement as a species.

"You CAN misuse the word "inspired" and apply it to anything you perceive as inspirational. "

And let me guess who decides if I have "misused" it: You. that seems pretty convenient. you also seemed to have decided what spirituality is. You define them as unique, and then say their uniqueness is what makes us special. You are rigging thee game. I don't agree that they are necessarily unique. I don't think our inspiration is very much unlike that experienced by other animals, except for a matter of degree.

These unique attributes, no matter how we define them... they are still both completely physical. Do you agree?

LOL you are learning about Boss.

I already know the tactics. Boss isn't the first.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

But what is the function of the spirit? Why is it necessary?

We developed a special word to describe this.

Inspiration.

the spirit inspires the Zika virus? How? Or, are you saying only humans have spirits? The other poster was being more general.

Apparently it was necessary for the spirit to create Zika.

I wonder if the spirit of the raptured Zika will cause trouble in heaven?

.

Apparently it was necessary for the spirit to create Zika.

I wonder if the spirit of the raptured Zika will cause trouble in heaven?

Apparently it was necessary for the spirit to create Zika.

zika makes the spirit through its life expectancy, individually as not all zika would be admissible to heaven their refined Spirit would be the difference. not the other way around.


only those that Triumph in life are candidates to be Judged by whatever the Almighty of the time determines will be their verdict.

Shaman Breezewood has spoken!

 

[RWS]

All life forms have physicality. So Spirituality, by your definition is something that is not physical in nature. Yet some physical objects possess it.

So my question was, what is the threshold between an object that has spirituality and one that doesn't?

Like I said, does a rock have spirituality? I hope you say yes.

And please quote the whole post, not just what you want to argue. Tell me about how you think about spirituality among different physical things?

Whole post follows:

No. Some physical objects possess spirits. Spirituality is the quality of being concerned with the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.

So what I take from that is that only humans can have spirituality. Right?

Previous iterations of high apes didn't have spirituality? Like Neanderthals?

And other high-intelligence animals like chimps, dogs, pigs, dolphins, crows, and "octopussies" don't have spirituality either.

So that means there's a difference in the physical nature of a modern homo-sapien-sapien that distinguishes it from it's predecessors like homo-sapien, and all other intelligent life forms.

What would that physical difference be to allow spirituality in only HSS? There has to be a physical trait.

Unless you change your answer once again...

 

[Boss]

No evidence?

Where did land animals come from? Explain the fossil record.

The fossil record shows species suddenly coming into existence and suddenly disappearing. There are very few examples of transitional fossils and no examples of cross-genus speciation. There should be trillions of these examples. Here is where people like you will usually say... Well, we haven't looked everywhere! ...Well... your fossils don't prove your case then!

Look man... I would LOVE to believe that, when God created Life, it was something SO incredible it was able to evolve from a single-cell organism into the billions of assorted life forms we know today. If ANYTHING would be capable of creating such a thing, it would indeed be God. But I don't believe that's how we came about having all the life we see today. I believe whatever created life was intelligent and created numerous forms of interdependent life... some of it evolved, some of it went extinct. I don't need to define the Creator and it doesn't need to be the Biblical God.

 

[RWS]

boss says "I believe whatever created life was intelligent and created numerous forms of interdependent life... "

How old is the Earth, boss?

 

[Boss]

So what I take from that is that only humans can have spirituality. Right?

Previous iterations of high apes didn't have spirituality? Like Neanderthals?

And other high-intelligence animals like chimps, dogs, pigs, dolphins, crows, and "octopussies" don't have spirituality either.

So that means there's a difference in the physical nature of a modern homo-sapien-sapien that distinguishes it from it's predecessors like homo-sapien, and all other intelligent life forms.

What would that physical difference be to allow spirituality in only HSS? There has to be a physical trait.

Unless you change your answer once again...

I don't KNOW what can have spirituality. I know that humans appear to be the only species who have spiritual awareness and spiritually connect. Other species may and we may just not be aware of it. But when we discuss "spirituality" we are talking about human spirituality.

For the record, there has been evidence that some Neanderthals in Europe did attempt spirituality. It came late in the species evolution and it was probably an attempt to mimic their homo sapien counterparts who were thriving. There is something very important about human spirituality and survival of the species.

Human spirituality is a physical behavioral trait. Now, if we study ANY species of life and find a repeated behavioral trait through the entire course of the species existence, we'd determine conclusively this was fundamental to the species even if we didn't understand why. There is no example of any life form having a consistent behavioral trait without any reason or purpose.

 

[Boss]

boss says "I believe whatever created life was intelligent and created numerous forms of interdependent life... "

How old is the Earth, boss?

We think it's about 4.5 billion years old.

Where did all the water come from?
Why are we the only rocky planet with a molten iron-nickel core?

 

[RWS]

No evidence?

Where did land animals come from? Explain the fossil record.

The fossil record shows species suddenly coming into existence and suddenly disappearing. There are very few examples of transitional fossils and no examples of cross-genus speciation. There should be trillions of these examples. Here is where people like you will usually say... Well, we haven't looked everywhere! ...Well... your fossils don't prove your case then!

Look man... I would LOVE to believe that, when God created Life, it was something SO incredible it was able to evolve from a single-cell organism into the billions of assorted life forms we know today. If ANYTHING would be capable of creating such a thing, it would indeed be God. But I don't believe that's how we came about having all the life we see today. I believe whatever created life was intelligent and created numerous forms of interdependent life... some of it evolved, some of it went extinct. I don't need to define the Creator and it doesn't need to be the Biblical God.

So if it was intelligent and created numerous forms of interdependent life, how long did it wait to do it?

Obviously God, nor an intelligent creator, is not going drop a bunch of interdependent life forms on a molten blob of rock.

So how long did he/it wait, before creating us? Was the planet created separately, and then he waited a few billion years to drop multiple forms of life onto the planet that could survive the environment (which would include humans based on your posts)? Or did he/it just do it all at once?

How old do you really think the Earth is? Because your posts, and your answer of 4.5 billion years, do not coincide.

 

[Boss]

how long did it wait to do it?

Time is irrelevant to spiritual nature. Time is a physical dimension.

 

[RWS]

how long did it wait to do it?

Time is irrelevant to spiritual nature. Time is a physical dimension.

But spirituality is a human trait, as you said. And like you said as well, we did not evolve from apes.

When did the creator/god drop off all of this interdependent life, including humans, on the planet? In Earth years? Consider that dropping off a few beings of each type of life is not going to be good enough to survive. The environment has to be already saturated with that ecosystem, for life forms to be dropped off on the planet and flourish.

 

[Boss]

Because your posts, and your answer of 4.5 billion years, do not coincide.

Really? How do you figure that?

You know.... for the fucking record, because I know what you're implying here.... MOST religious people don't believe the 6000 yr. old EEC story. In fact, that is a relatively tiny sliver of fundamentalists. You, trying to lump everyone who believes in any kind of God together with such nonsense is simply your method of besmirching those who you disagree with.

This is because you're a punk. You don't have the mental capacity to debate on an intellectual level with people who know what they're talking about so you resort to punkish behavior like this. I guess you think that impresses the ladies?

Furthermore... 4.5 billion years is the currently accepted scientific belief. Less than 50 years ago, that was 2.5 billion years. 100 years ago it was 1 billion years. 200 years ago it was a million years. See... it's a funny thing about Science, it continues to find new information and change. Unlike you.

 

[RWS]

So if not by evolution, the creator had to create all life at once, including humans, fully saturated.

 

[Boss]

But spirituality is a human trait, as you said. And like you said as well, we did not evolve from apes.

When did the creator/god drop off all of this interdependent life, including humans, on the planet? In Earth years? Consider that dropping off a few beings of each type of life is not going to be good enough to survive. The environment has to be already saturated with that ecosystem, for life forms to be dropped off on the planet and flourish.

I don't know what you mean by "drop off" ...Spiritual Nature is all around us all the time. It doesn't have to "drop off" things.

For the record, I didn't say we didn't evolve from apes. I don't know. However we came to be, something greater than self bestowed upon us the ability to spiritually connect and be spiritually aware, and this is where human civilization began.

 

[Boss]

So if not by evolution, the creator had to create all life at once, including humans, fully saturated.

I didn't say that.