Atheists are hoping aliens from outer space will contact us...

[Fort Fun Indiana]

.

But it's really more complicated than that because there are things not physical in nature which are also not spiritual. A fantasy, for example. What we are describing is something beyond physical nature yet also connected with it.

A fantasy, for example ...

I can't help to wonder how that makes sense, what is a fantasy ... howabout the wind, physical without a Spirit though tangentially Mother Nature is given spiritual qualities that could include a hurricane. or gravity

just being alive is spiritual irregardless the physical form and for some that quality is interrelated to all beings. the microbial zika virus could potentially wipe humanity off the face of Earth ...

it could not be what it is without a spirit.

But what is the function of the spirit? Why is it necessary?

 

[Boss]

.

But it's really more complicated than that because there are things not physical in nature which are also not spiritual. A fantasy, for example. What we are describing is something beyond physical nature yet also connected with it.

A fantasy, for example ...

I can't help to wonder how that makes sense, what is a fantasy ... howabout the wind, physical without a Spirit though tangentially Mother Nature is given spiritual qualities that could include a hurricane. or gravity

just being alive is spiritual irregardless the physical form and for some that quality is interrelated to all beings. the microbial zika virus could potentially wipe humanity off the face of Earth ...

it could not be what it is without a spirit.

I haven't disputed any of that.

Wind, however, is simply atoms moving rapidly. It's physical, not spiritual. The same is true with hurricanes and gravity.... physical phenomenon we can observe, measure and test physically. Is there some "spiritual connection" with them? Probably so since Spiritual Nature created the Physical.

 

[Boss]

But what is the function of the spirit? Why is it necessary?

We developed a special word to describe this.

Inspiration.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

But what is the function of the spirit? Why is it necessary?

We developed a special word to describe this.

Inspiration.

the spirit inspires the Zika virus? How? Or, are you saying only humans have spirits? The other poster was being more general.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

.

But it's really more complicated than that because there are things not physical in nature which are also not spiritual. A fantasy, for example. What we are describing is something beyond physical nature yet also connected with it.

A fantasy, for example ...

I can't help to wonder how that makes sense, what is a fantasy ... howabout the wind, physical without a Spirit though tangentially Mother Nature is given spiritual qualities that could include a hurricane. or gravity

just being alive is spiritual irregardless the physical form and for some that quality is interrelated to all beings. the microbial zika virus could potentially wipe humanity off the face of Earth ...

it could not be what it is without a spirit.

I haven't disputed any of that.

Wind, however, is simply atoms moving rapidly. It's physical, not spiritual. The same is true with hurricanes and gravity.... physical phenomenon we can observe, measure and test physically. Is there some "spiritual connection" with them? Probably so since Spiritual Nature created the Physical.

"Wind, however, is simply atoms moving rapidly. It's physical, not spiritual."

By the same token, thoughts are simply atoms and electrical impulses moving about. Every inspired thought you have ever had is the result of physical activity in your brain.

 

[Boss]

But what is the function of the spirit? Why is it necessary?

We developed a special word to describe this.

Inspiration.

the spirit inspires the Zika virus? How? Or, are you saying only humans have spirits? The other poster was being more general.

I've seen no evidence to make me think the Zika virus has a spirit. You'll need to ask Breeze about that.

Again, humans appear to be the only animals who consciously have spiritual awareness and make a spiritual connection. People have all kinds of beliefs on this topic. Native Americans thought their horses and buffaloes had spirits. Isn't it the Hindus who believe cows are spiritual animals? I am honest enough to admit that I don't know. All I can go by is human spirituality. Inspiration explains it's function and necessity, in my opinion.

 

[Boss]

"Wind, however, is simply atoms moving rapidly. It's physical, not spiritual."

By the same token, thoughts are simply atoms and electrical impulses moving about. Every inspired thought you have ever had is the result of physical activity in your brain.

But it's really not. If it were as you "simply" conclude, we'd see the great technological achievements of the chimpanzee who we share 96% of our DNA with. You're explaining the pathology of how thought is processed in our brains... it has nothing whatsoever to do with inspiration.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Okay, fair enough... though I feel I can explain inspiration without invoking a spirit of any type. I would explain it through physical phenomena. Though, maybe your definition (and definitely mine) of "spirituality" does not involve a "spirit", detached from physicality.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

"Wind, however, is simply atoms moving rapidly. It's physical, not spiritual."

By the same token, thoughts are simply atoms and electrical impulses moving about. Every inspired thought you have ever had is the result of physical activity in your brain.

But it's really not. If it were as you "simply" conclude, we'd see the great technological achievements of the chimpanzee who we share 96% of our DNA with. You're explaining the pathology of how thought is processed in our brains... it has nothing whatsoever to do with inspiration.

That's a specious argument. Just because our brains can process thoughts another brain cannot does not necessitate that there is anything more at work than physical processes, nor does asserting that everything which happens in our brains has a purely physical basis necessitate that a similar creature would have the same result from physical processes in their brains.

Furthermore, it may yet happen that chimpanzees eventually evolve into a species with self-awareness, or language, or art. They have tools now. Remember, there was a time in our own past when our direct ancestors did not share all the higher functions of our modern brains.

 

[Boss]

That's a specious argument. Just because our brains can process thoughts another brain cannot does not necessitate that there is anything more at work than physical processes, nor does asserting that everything which happens in our brains has a purely physical basis necessitate that a similar creature would have the same result from physical processes in their brains.

Furthermore, it may yet happen that chimpanzees eventually evolve into a species with self-awareness, or language, or art. They have tools now. Remember, there was a time in our own past when our direct ancestors did not share all the higher functions of our modern brains.

There has never been a time in the history of human civilization that we've discovered, where humans did not possess spirituality of some kind. Inspiration is directly associated with human spirit and spirituality... it's even in the word. You can try to explain it physically but the fact remains, humans are inspired and humans are also spiritually connected. That is not a coincidence. Occam's Razor says simpler theories are preferable.

 

[Boss]

Furthermore, it may yet happen that chimpanzees eventually evolve into a species with self-awareness, or language, or art.

THIS is a specious argument. You have ZERO evidence to support this notion. We can postulate all day about what MIGHT happen... Dolphins MIGHT one day walk upright and speculate stock trades on Wall Street.... there's not any evidence to suggest that will happen, but it MIGHT.

 

[Boss]

They have tools now.

I can show you a video of a crow using a stick as a tool in order to get food. This is just evidence some species experience rationalized thought. That's a huge leap to inspiration.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

that's a thin argument, as one can find "inspiration" in any puddle or crack in the sidewalk, if one so chose. "hey, a guy was 'inspired' to put a red handprint on a cave wall"... yeah? Well, beavers are inspired to create complex structures. As are many other animals. are they not inspired/ Of course they are, by their genetics and by their culture. As are we.

You are mistaken to think that entering into the discussion magical, non-physical elements (translation: therefore, they can be anything I want at any time, and also no way to tell if I'm wrong) creates a simpler explanation. For one, it's not an explanation, as it explains nothing at all; you have merely replaced one mystery with another. Second, you have just made everything more complicated, because now we have to explain this phenomenon and others while operating under the assumption that physical causality only exists "sometimes" . Now you have to explain when it exists and when it doesn't, then star over on all of our knowledge we have gained from square one to make sure we didn't "miss the magic".

A much simpler explanation (Occam's razor at work) would be that there is no "non-physical spirit or soul", and that our brains are merely physical systems, operating under all of the same deterministic laws as any other. There, simple as it gets. And guess what? This principle withstands every test of it.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Furthermore, it may yet happen that chimpanzees eventually evolve into a species with self-awareness, or language, or art.

THIS is a specious argument. You have ZERO evidence to support this notion. We can postulate all day about what MIGHT happen... Dolphins MIGHT one day walk upright and speculate stock trades on Wall Street.... there's not any evidence to suggest that will happen, but it MIGHT.

"THIS is a specious argument. You have ZERO evidence to support this notion. "

Not so. Every bit of evidence we have at our disposal says it MAY be that chimpanzees also eventually evolve some higher functions, in a few million years, (if left to do so). I didn't guarantee it would happen, I guaranteed that it is a possibility. And, it wasn't an an argument, it was a statement.

Yes, the descendants of dolphins MAY walk upright one day, just as their ancestors walked on all fours. of course, they will no longer be dolphins, they will be a new species.

 

[Boss]

that's a thin argument, as one can find "inspiration" in any puddle or crack in the sidewalk, if one so chose. "hey, a guy was 'inspired' to put a red handprint on a cave wall"... yeah? Well, beavers are inspired to create complex structures. As are many other animals. are they not inspired/ Of course they are, by their genetics and by their culture. As are we.

You are mistaken to think that entering into the discussion magical, non-physical elements (translation: therefore, they can be anything I want at any time, and also no way to tell if I'm wrong) creates a simpler explanation. For one, it's not an explanation, as it explains nothing at all; you have merely replaced one mystery with another. Second, you have just made everything more complicated, because now we have to explain this phenomenon and others while operating under the assumption that physical causality only exists "sometimes" . Now you have to explain when it exists and when it doesn't, then star over on all of our knowledge we have gained from square one to make sure we didn't "miss the magic".

A much simpler explanation (Occam's razor at work) would be that there is no "non-physical spirit or soul", and that our brains are merely physical systems, operating under all of the same deterministic laws as any other. There, simple as it gets. And guess what? This principle withstands every test of it.

Indeed.... You CAN misuse the word "inspired" and apply it to anything you perceive as inspirational. Humans misapply words and context all the time. We are extremely fallible creatures.

Again, there is nothing "magical" about spirituality. That is YOUR way of taking a backhanded slap at something you don't believe in, understand or accept. Spiritual Nature is very much a natural part of nature. It isn't PHYSICAL nature and that's where your problem lies. You don't believe in spiritual nature and the only existence you can comprehend is physical existence. But I can prove (physically) that your perception of physical reality is incomplete. You have only five senses which can perceive four dimensions of physical reality. There are at least 11 dimensions. There is nothing in physics which mandates your five senses are ALL possible senses. AND... your five senses are never able to observe present time in the present because physics has to happen. The only perception humans have of reality resides in the past. Anything you sense has already happened. It took time for your brain to process the sensation and you to realize it.

Occam's Razor was being applied to the fact that humans are both uniquely inspired and spiritual. The simplest explanation is, there is a correlation.

You're correct that our brains are physical systems. And they function the same as thousands of other mammals with the exception of our unique attribute of inspiration and spirituality, which is pretty much the key to our advancement as a species.

 

[Boss]

"THIS is a specious argument. You have ZERO evidence to support this notion. "

Not so. Every bit of evidence we have at our disposal says it MAY be that chimpanzees also eventually evolve some higher functions, in a few million years, (if left to do so). I didn't guarantee it would happen, I guaranteed that it is a possible.

And, it wasn't an an argument, it was a statement. yes, dolphins MAY walk upright one day, just as their ancestors walked on all fours. of course, they will no longer be dolphins, they will be a new species.

You have ZERO evidence. NONE!

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

that's a thin argument, as one can find "inspiration" in any puddle or crack in the sidewalk, if one so chose. "hey, a guy was 'inspired' to put a red handprint on a cave wall"... yeah? Well, beavers are inspired to create complex structures. As are many other animals. are they not inspired/ Of course they are, by their genetics and by their culture. As are we.

You are mistaken to think that entering into the discussion magical, non-physical elements (translation: therefore, they can be anything I want at any time, and also no way to tell if I'm wrong) creates a simpler explanation. For one, it's not an explanation, as it explains nothing at all; you have merely replaced one mystery with another. Second, you have just made everything more complicated, because now we have to explain this phenomenon and others while operating under the assumption that physical causality only exists "sometimes" . Now you have to explain when it exists and when it doesn't, then star over on all of our knowledge we have gained from square one to make sure we didn't "miss the magic".

A much simpler explanation (Occam's razor at work) would be that there is no "non-physical spirit or soul", and that our brains are merely physical systems, operating under all of the same deterministic laws as any other. There, simple as it gets. And guess what? This principle withstands every test of it.

Indeed.... You CAN misuse the word "inspired" and apply it to anything you perceive as inspirational. Humans misapply words and context all the time. We are extremely fallible creatures.

Again, there is nothing "magical" about spirituality. That is YOUR way of taking a backhanded slap at something you don't believe in, understand or accept. Spiritual Nature is very much a natural part of nature. It isn't PHYSICAL nature and that's where your problem lies. You don't believe in spiritual nature and the only existence you can comprehend is physical existence. But I can prove (physically) that your perception of physical reality is incomplete. You have only five senses which can perceive four dimensions of physical reality. There are at least 11 dimensions. There is nothing in physics which mandates your five senses are ALL possible senses. AND... your five senses are never able to observe present time in the present because physics has to happen. The only perception humans have of reality resides in the past. Anything you sense has already happened. It took time for your brain to process the sensation and you to realize it.

Occam's Razor was being applied to the fact that humans are both uniquely inspired and spiritual. The simplest explanation is, there is a correlation.

You're correct that our brains are physical systems. And they function the same as thousands of other mammals with the exception of our unique attribute of inspiration and spirituality, which is pretty much the key to our advancement as a species.

"You CAN misuse the word "inspired" and apply it to anything you perceive as inspirational. "

And let me guess who decides if I have "misused" it: You. that seems pretty convenient. you also seemed to have decided what spirituality is. You define them as unique, and then say their uniqueness is what makes us special. You are rigging thee game. I don't agree that they are necessarily unique. I don't think our inspiration is very much unlike that experienced by other animals, except for a matter of degree.

These unique attributes, no matter how we define them... they are still both completely physical. Do you agree?

 

[Boss]

"You CAN misuse the word "inspired" and apply it to anything you perceive as inspirational. "

And let me guess who decides if I have "misused" it: You. that seems pretty convenient. you also seemed to have decided what spirituality is. You define them as unique, and then say their uniqueness is what makes us special. You are rigging thee game. I don't agree that they are necessarily unique. I don't think our inspiration is very much unlike that experienced by other animals, except for a matter of degree.

These unique attributes, no matter how we define them... they are still both completely physical. Do you agree?

in·spired
inˈspī(ə)rd/
adjective

1. of extraordinary quality, as if arising from some external creative impulse.

spir·it·u·al·i·ty
ˌspiriCHo͞oˈalədē/
noun

1. the quality of being concerned with the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.

 

[BreezeWood]

.

But it's really more complicated than that because there are things not physical in nature which are also not spiritual. A fantasy, for example. What we are describing is something beyond physical nature yet also connected with it.

A fantasy, for example ...

I can't help to wonder how that makes sense, what is a fantasy ... howabout the wind, physical without a Spirit though tangentially Mother Nature is given spiritual qualities that could include a hurricane. or gravity

just being alive is spiritual irregardless the physical form and for some that quality is interrelated to all beings. the microbial zika virus could potentially wipe humanity off the face of Earth ...

it could not be what it is without a spirit.

I haven't disputed any of that.

Wind, however, is simply atoms moving rapidly. It's physical, not spiritual. The same is true with hurricanes and gravity.... physical phenomenon we can observe, measure and test physically. Is there some "spiritual connection" with them? Probably so since Spiritual Nature created the Physical.

"Wind, however, is simply atoms moving rapidly. It's physical, not spiritual."

By the same token, thoughts are simply atoms and electrical impulses moving about. Every inspired thought you have ever had is the result of physical activity in your brain.

.

By the same token, thoughts are simply atoms and electrical impulses moving about. Every inspired thought you have ever had is the result of physical activity in your brain.

think again, they have no CNS your thoughts have nothing to do with your brain.

 

[Boss]

I don't agree that they are necessarily unique.

Then it's upon you to offer the empirical evidence it's not.