Assault on Waco

[Oddball]

They don't give a fuck...Their boy Bubba Clintoon and super dyke Reno could both have been caught together in bed with the proverbial dead woman and the live boy and the leftbats would marvel at it.

 

[rightwinger]

Thanks for confirming my observation, like a good little Stalinist knuckle dragger.

Oh yes...kill federal agents

A libertarians wet dream

No evidence was ever presented that anyone in the Waco Compound killed anyone. Further the Compound was no threat to the FBI or the surrounding community. There was absolutely no reason to originally raid the place and absolutely no reason to stage a tank lead assault on buildings with children in them that were laced with gasoline. All KNOWN to the FBI.

Sorry, this is the United States and you are not above the law

They killed four agents and are required by law to surrender or pay he consequences. They chose to pay the consequences

 

[Si modo]

Oh yes...kill federal agents

A libertarians wet dream

No evidence was ever presented that anyone in the Waco Compound killed anyone. Further the Compound was no threat to the FBI or the surrounding community. There was absolutely no reason to originally raid the place and absolutely no reason to stage a tank lead assault on buildings with children in them that were laced with gasoline. All KNOWN to the FBI.

Sorry, this is the United States and you are not above the law

They killed four agents and are required by law to surrender or pay he consequences. They chose to pay the consequences

Your glee at the incineration of so many is noted.

 

[Dr Grump]

Your glee at the incineration of so many is noted.

I don't know of anybody who was happy about the outcome.

And, no, you are totally wrong if you think "everybody knew it was a clusterfuck' by the feds.

it was the actions of a narcisstic, egomanical, psychotic loon that caused this tragedy.

 

[rightwinger]

No evidence was ever presented that anyone in the Waco Compound killed anyone. Further the Compound was no threat to the FBI or the surrounding community. There was absolutely no reason to originally raid the place and absolutely no reason to stage a tank lead assault on buildings with children in them that were laced with gasoline. All KNOWN to the FBI.

Sorry, this is the United States and you are not above the law

They killed four agents and are required by law to surrender or pay he consequences. They chose to pay the consequences

Your glee at the incineration of so many is noted.

Take it up with your poster child David Koresh

 

[Dr Grump]

They don't give a fuck...Their boy Bubba Clintoon and super dyke Reno could both have been caught together in bed with the proverbial dead woman and the live boy and the leftbats would marvel at it.

Is your dogma and train of thought so vacuous, so immovable, so rigid, so fucked up, that you would rather DIE in a fire and hail of bullets than let natural justice take its course.

All Koresh had to do, was surrender to the authorities, let them go through the motions and get it sorted. if they were in the wrong he would be a multi-millionaire by now, Reno's career would be down the toilet along with a huge number of ATF officers.

instead he decided to shoot it out. his fault, his problem. The US, like any western country, is a nation of laws. You may not like those laws, and some of them suck for sure, but you are still a nation of laws. Nobody is above them....not even Koresh. Do some people get away with stuff, and others get caught up in stuff that is not of their doing? Sure. But in the wash, in the end, MOST of the time things end up OK.

Koresh is a multiple murderer and, if there was a hell, he'd be there....

 

[whitehall]

The ATF wanted to coerce a US citizen and Army Vet into becoming a federal informant in the Ruby Ridge case which happened during the George HW Bush administration. The feds saw Randy Weaver coming out of a tent sponsored by skinheads at a State Fair and they approached him but he denied knowing anything about the skinhead group and he refused to cooperate. Knowing Weaver was an amateur gunsmith the ATF sent an informant with big bucks to his house asking him to cut the barrel of a shotgun. The informant specified the length which was barely under the legal length by about 1/2 inch and the ATF had him. Weaver was stopped on the road by the ATF and he and his wife were thrown to the ground in the winter slush and handcuffed and brought to the court house where bail was set and a court date was given. Unknown to Weaver the court date was changed and he became a fugitive from justice. During the subsequent siege on his property his boy was shot in the back and killed and Weaver was shot. His wife was shot in the face by an FBI sniper as she held a 18 month old child in her arms. During the "siege" the FBI used a bullhorn to torture Weaver asking him what his wife was cooking while she lay dead in the cabin. Weaver finally surrendered and a jury found him guilty of a single count of failing to appear in court. He was awarded about a million dollars for the unlawful death of his wife and the FBI sniper was indicted for manslaughter in local court but the charges were dismissed by a federal judge. The same rogue group went on to Waco a few years later and then the Fast and Furious debacle.

Timothy McVeigh was a "US citizen and Army vet" too. Wanna defend him?

If you want to compare an Army Veteran who was minding his own business and who's son was shot in the back and his wife was shot in the face while holding a baby and was awarded a million dollars to an Army Veteran who was a domestic terrorist and was executed go ahead. It's weird but go ahead.

 

[Dr Grump]

The same rogue group went on to Waco a few years later and then the Fast and Furious debacle.

US marshalls were responsible for Ruby Ridge. Not the ATF...

 

[Si modo]

Your glee at the incineration of so many is noted.

I don't know of anybody who was happy about the outcome.

And, no, you are totally wrong if you think "everybody knew it was a clusterfuck' by the feds.

it was the actions of a narcisstic, egomanical, psychotic loon that caused this tragedy.

You should read the Danforth report. Koresh was not alone in fault...far, very far, from it.

 

[Si modo]

The same rogue group went on to Waco a few years later and then the Fast and Furious debacle.

US marshalls were responsible for Ruby Ridge. Not the ATF...

Marshals and the FBI, one of whom was convicted of manslaughter.

 

[jillian]

Your glee at the incineration of so many is noted.

I don't know of anybody who was happy about the outcome.

And, no, you are totally wrong if you think "everybody knew it was a clusterfuck' by the feds.

it was the actions of a narcisstic, egomanical, psychotic loon that caused this tragedy.

You should read the Danforth report. Koresh was not alone in fault...far, very far, from it.

have you ever bothered actually looking at the report?

http://www.waco93.com/Danforth-finalreport.pdf

I'll direct your attention to page 4, et seq. ... Conclusions of the Special Counsel:

The government of the United States and its agents are not responsible for the April 19, 1993, tragedy at Waco. The government:
(a) did not cause the fire; (b) did not direct gunfire at the Branch Davidian complex; and (c) did not improperly employ the armed forces of the United States. Responsibility for the tragedy of Waco rests with certain of the Branch Davidians and
their leader, Vernon Howell, also known as David Koresh
(a) shot and killed four ATF agents on February 28, 1993, and wounded 20 others;
(b) refused to exit the complex peacefully during the 51-day standoff that followed the ATF raid despite extensive efforts and concessions by negotiators for the Federal Bureau of Investigation (“FBI”
(c) directed gunfire at FBI agents who were inserting tear gas into the complex on April 19, 1993;
(d) spread fuel throughout the main structure of the complex and ignited it in at least three places causing the fire which resulted in the deaths of those Branch Davidians not killed by their own gunfire; and
(e) killed some of their own people by gunfire, including at least five children. While the Special Counsel has concluded that the United States government is not
responsible for the tragedy at Waco on April 19, 1993, the Special Counsel states with equal certainty that an FBI agent fired three pyrotechnic tear gas rounds at 8:08 a.m. on April 19, 1993, at the concrete construction pit approximately 75 feet from the living quarters of the Davidian complex. The pyrotechnic tear gas rounds did not start the fire that consumed the complex four hours later.

you're welcome.

 

[jillian]

The same rogue group went on to Waco a few years later and then the Fast and Furious debacle.

US marshalls were responsible for Ruby Ridge. Not the ATF...

Marshals and the FBI, one of whom was convicted of manslaughter.

really? which marshal was convicted?

FBI HRT sniper Lon Horiuchi was indicted for manslaughter in 1997 by the Boundary County, Idaho, prosecutor just before the statute of limitations for the crime of manslaughter expired, but the trial was removed to federal court and quickly dismissed on grounds of sovereign immunity.[63] The decision to dismiss the charges was reversed by an en banc panel of the Ninth Circuit, which held that enough uncertainty about the facts of the case existed for Horiuchi to stand trial on state manslaughter charges.[64] Ultimately, the then-sitting Boundary County Prosecutor, Brett Benson, who had defeated Woodbury in the 2000 election, decided to drop the charges because he felt it was unlikely the state could prove the case and too much time had passed. Yagman, the special prosecutor, responded that he "could not disagree more with this decision than I do."[65]
Kevin Harris was also indicted for the first-degree murder of DUSM Bill Degan, but the charge was dismissed on grounds of double jeopardy because he had been acquitted in the federal criminal trial on the same charge in 1993.[66]

Ruby Ridge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

feel free to return to stomping around the board insulting me now.

 

[Wicked Jester]

Thanks for confirming my observation, like a good little Stalinist knuckle dragger.

Oh yes...kill federal agents

A libertarians wet dream

Oh yes....dead children

A liberals reason to jack off

 

[jillian]

Thanks for confirming my observation, like a good little Stalinist knuckle dragger.

Oh yes...kill federal agents

A libertarians wet dream

Oh yes....dead children

A liberals reason to jack off

the difference is no one celebrates dead children.

 

[Wicked Jester]

Oh yes...kill federal agents

A libertarians wet dream

Oh yes....dead children

A liberals reason to jack off

the difference is no one celebrates dead children.

Except if it's the anniversary of Roe v Wade.

 

[Si modo]

US marshalls were responsible for Ruby Ridge. Not the ATF...

Marshals and the FBI, one of whom was convicted of manslaughter.

really? which marshal was convicted?

FBI HRT sniper Lon Horiuchi was indicted for manslaughter in 1997 by the Boundary County, Idaho, prosecutor just before the statute of limitations for the crime of manslaughter expired, but the trial was removed to federal court and quickly dismissed on grounds of sovereign immunity.[63] The decision to dismiss the charges was reversed by an en banc panel of the Ninth Circuit, which held that enough uncertainty about the facts of the case existed for Horiuchi to stand trial on state manslaughter charges.[64] Ultimately, the then-sitting Boundary County Prosecutor, Brett Benson, who had defeated Woodbury in the 2000 election, decided to drop the charges because he felt it was unlikely the state could prove the case and too much time had passed. Yagman, the special prosecutor, responded that he "could not disagree more with this decision than I do."[65]
Kevin Harris was also indicted for the first-degree murder of DUSM Bill Degan, but the charge was dismissed on grounds of double jeopardy because he had been acquitted in the federal criminal trial on the same charge in 1993.[66]

Ruby Ridge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

feel free to return to stomping around the board insulting me now.

Call me a racist or a drunk, and I'll be pleased to insult you again.

I give what I get.

 

[jillian]

Marshals and the FBI, one of whom was convicted of manslaughter.

really? which marshal was convicted?

FBI HRT sniper Lon Horiuchi was indicted for manslaughter in 1997 by the Boundary County, Idaho, prosecutor just before the statute of limitations for the crime of manslaughter expired, but the trial was removed to federal court and quickly dismissed on grounds of sovereign immunity.[63] The decision to dismiss the charges was reversed by an en banc panel of the Ninth Circuit, which held that enough uncertainty about the facts of the case existed for Horiuchi to stand trial on state manslaughter charges.[64] Ultimately, the then-sitting Boundary County Prosecutor, Brett Benson, who had defeated Woodbury in the 2000 election, decided to drop the charges because he felt it was unlikely the state could prove the case and too much time had passed. Yagman, the special prosecutor, responded that he "could not disagree more with this decision than I do."[65]
Kevin Harris was also indicted for the first-degree murder of DUSM Bill Degan, but the charge was dismissed on grounds of double jeopardy because he had been acquitted in the federal criminal trial on the same charge in 1993.[66]

Ruby Ridge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

feel free to return to stomping around the board insulting me now.

Call me a racist or a drunk, and I'll be pleased to insult you again.

I give what I get.

no bubbalah... you get what you give.

now how about admitting you were wrong.

we'll wait.

 

[jillian]

s'matter, si? can't admit you were wrong?

 

[westwall]

I fought the law, and the law won
I fought the law and the law won

The fact is the raid never should have happened. Nothing illegal was going on at the Compound. The ATF secretly took away the FFL licenses of those at the Compound just before the raid and claimed that illegal gun buying had occurred. Not true, every purchase was legal and followed the law.

Embarrassed after 3 months of siege the FBI staged an illegal raid using the military. The FBI KNEW that the wooden structured were set to be burned if attacked, with gasoline placed all over the structures, yet they authorized the use of tanks to not only break through the walls but spew flammable chemicals and fire starting canisters into the mix.

The compound was no threat during the 3 month siege not one shot was fired from the compound and no one attempted to leave. The FBI murdered those children.

There is no evidence that in the initial raid the civilians even fired on the ATF. The first pictures later taken down and never seen again had an ATF agent spraying a window with automatic fire where 3 of his partners had just entered. The door to the compound recovered intact had no bullet holes originating from inside the compound and was conveniently lost when Congress ask to see it. None of the cars in the parking lot had bullet holes originating from the compound all holes were from outside where the ATF was.

Shooting Federal Agents is frowned upon. Killing four of them can lead to some pissed off agents

I fought the law and the law won

That's the same mentality that allowed the Nazis to gain power and which allowed the horrble final solution to occur. I suggest you wake up RW before you piss some bureaucrat off and there's no one around to watch you get bundled off to the gulag.

You should be ashamed.

 

[westwall]

I don't know of anybody who was happy about the outcome.

And, no, you are totally wrong if you think "everybody knew it was a clusterfuck' by the feds.

it was the actions of a narcisstic, egomanical, psychotic loon that caused this tragedy.

You should read the Danforth report. Koresh was not alone in fault...far, very far, from it.

have you ever bothered actually looking at the report?

http://www.waco93.com/Danforth-finalreport.pdf

I'll direct your attention to page 4, et seq. ... Conclusions of the Special Counsel:

The government of the United States and its agents are not responsible for the April 19, 1993, tragedy at Waco. The government:
(a) did not cause the fire; (b) did not direct gunfire at the Branch Davidian complex; and (c) did not improperly employ the armed forces of the United States. Responsibility for the tragedy of Waco rests with certain of the Branch Davidians and
their leader, Vernon Howell, also known as David Koresh
(a) shot and killed four ATF agents on February 28, 1993, and wounded 20 others;
(b) refused to exit the complex peacefully during the 51-day standoff that followed the ATF raid despite extensive efforts and concessions by negotiators for the Federal Bureau of Investigation (“FBI”
(c) directed gunfire at FBI agents who were inserting tear gas into the complex on April 19, 1993;
(d) spread fuel throughout the main structure of the complex and ignited it in at least three places causing the fire which resulted in the deaths of those Branch Davidians not killed by their own gunfire; and
(e) killed some of their own people by gunfire, including at least five children. While the Special Counsel has concluded that the United States government is not
responsible for the tragedy at Waco on April 19, 1993, the Special Counsel states with equal certainty that an FBI agent fired three pyrotechnic tear gas rounds at 8:08 a.m. on April 19, 1993, at the concrete construction pit approximately 75 feet from the living quarters of the Davidian complex. The pyrotechnic tear gas rounds did not start the fire that consumed the complex four hours later.

you're welcome.

Hi Jillian, I suggest you watch the Academy Award winning documentary called "Waco, The Rules of Engagement." It will make you question everything the government has put out on the attack which was at best a screwup and at worst a criminal endeavor.