Ask a Catholic

[Meriweather]

Actually, a shitload of "Christian" practices were co-opted Pagan ideas.

Are you aware that was disproven just a few decades after someone submitted it as a theory?

 

[Meriweather]

Jesus wasn't born on Dec. 25th (He wasn't born at all because he probably never existed), the Church was just co-opting Winter Solstice holidays like Yule and Saturnalia

Wrong. Before Saturnalia, again in Judea, was the tradition that Jesus died on the day he was conceived....March 25. This was the day celebrated long before celebrating birthdays came into fashion. Once birthdays came into fashion, people counted nine months from March 25 and came up with December 25 as the birthday. It just so happened that solstice celebrations were also the norm in some societies, usually week long celebrations which took in December 25. Celebrations, for different reasons, took place at the same times.

Again, this was proven shortly after some theorist came up with the bright idea that Christianity copied paganism. In a few locales it was proven that pagans changed their main day of celebration from the 22nd or 23rd to the 25th to match up with Christian celebration taking place.

 

[JoeB131]

Are you aware that was disproven just a few decades after someone submitted it as a theory?

No, it really wasn't. The Church stomping their little feet and insisting their fairy tales are true and the Greek Fairy tales aren't is kind of silly.

Frankly, I think we missed out. Zeus and Artemis are much cooler deities than Jesus and Mary.

 

[Meriweather]

No, it really wasn't.

It was. Do the research.

 

[JoeB131]

Wrong. Before Saturnalia, again in Judea, was the tradition that Jesus died on the day he was conceived....March 25. This was the day celebrated long before celebrating birthdays came into fashion. Once birthdays came into fashion, people counted nine months from March 25 and came up with December 25 as the birthday. It just so happened that solstice celebrations were also the norm in some societies, usually week long celebrations which took in December 25. Celebrations, for different reasons, took place at the same times.

Again, this was proven shortly after some theorist came up with the bright idea that Christianity copied paganism. In a few locales it was proven that pagans changed their main day of celebration from the 22nd or 23rd to the 25th to match up with Christian celebration taking place.

Oh, N****a, please.

You God-botherers can't even agree on what YEAR Jesus was born, much less the day.

Matthew has him being born between 6-4 BCE, before the death of King Herod, while Luke has him being born in 6 CE when Cyrenius (AKA Publius Sulpicius Quirinius) was governor of Iudaea after the Romans annexed it. Of course, both of these fairy tales were creative ways to get Jesus of Nazareth to be born in Bethlehem.

 

[JoeB131]

It was. Do the research.

I have a degree in history.. what do you have?

yes, imagine when I got to college and found out that after 12 years of Catholic Propaganda, I actually started learning the truth about how the Christians hijacked Paganism for a lot of practices...

 

[Meriweather]

Frankly, I think we missed out. Zeus and Artemis are much cooler deities than Jesus and Mary.

Mary is not a deity.

Are you aware of how many of the Greek and Roman Gods evolved? Fascinating studies. One way to get me truly annoyed is by molding their original stories in the attempt to merge it in with Christianity. Greek and Roman Gods have their own unique histories, and deserve to be preserved as such.

Too much is sanded away and other stuff added to because someone who cares about neither Greek/Roman mythology nor Christianity offer their own silly conclusions. The quote about conclusions is truly apt here: Conclusions are the point where someone has stopped thinking. I care that the Greek and Roman Gods are preserved as they truly were/are. You know. The scholarly reports using primary sources, not some theory presented in the 1800s, disproved a few decades later.

 

[Meriweather]

You God-botherers can't even agree on what YEAR Jesus was born, much less the day.

Matthew has him being born between 6-4 BCE, before the death of King Herod, while Luke has him being born in 6 CE when Cyrenius (AKA Publius Sulpicius Quirinius) was governor of Iudaea after the Romans annexed it. Of course, both of these fairy tales were creative ways to get Jesus of Nazareth to be born in Bethlehem.

That is correct. We do not know the exact year he was born--not a lot of people kept calendars back then. People set the time around a known event. About the time of King Herod's death; about the time of Quirinius. It would be like me saying to a young person, "My siblings were born around the time Kennedy was president." It sets the stage. Some siblings may have been born during Eisenhower's term; others in Johnson's...but Kennedy is better known. Same thing when we note some of our ancestors lived around the time of the Civil War. Can't recall the exact dates, but that is the setting that everyone can picture.

The best theory I have come across on how Jesus happened to be born in Bethlehem centers on the occupation of his father. Joseph was a carpenter, and in those days carpenters worked in stone, not wood. Guess what was being built not too far away in Jerusalem? The Temple. Made of stone. There is a lot we don't know for sure, but it is still fascinating research.

 

[JoeB131]

Mary is not a deity.

Really? Frankly, she had statues in every Catholic Church and School I ever went to, we were encouraged to pray to her, we were told she had a bunch of supernatural powers....

Catholicism is kind of a soft polytheism with the Trinity, Mary, and the veneration of saints.... Protestantism actually evolved because people kind of saw this for what it was.

Are you aware of how many of the Greek and Roman Gods evolved? Fascinating studies. One way to get me truly annoyed is by molding their original stories in the attempt to merge it in with Christianity. Greek and Roman Gods have their own unique histories, and deserve to be preserved as such.

Too much is sanded away and other stuff added to because someone who cares about neither Greek/Roman mythology nor Christianity offer their own silly conclusions. The quote about conclusions is truly apt here: Conclusions are the point where someone has stopped thinking. I care that the Greek and Roman Gods are preserved as they truly were/are. You know. The scholarly reports using primary sources, not some theory presented in the 1800s, disproved a few decades later.

Not really. The problem with a lot of what we know about Greek Mythology is that it comes from writers like Homer and Hesiod, who really didn't take these deities seriously. (The Gods come off as particularly buffoonish in the Iliad) Just like most of what we know about Norse Mythology comes from Eddas recorded by Christians. Piecing together what people actually believed is a bit more tricky.

 

[Meriweather]

I have a degree in history.. what do you have?

yes, imagine when I got to college and found out that after 12 years of Catholic Propaganda, I actually started learning the truth about how the Christians hijacked Paganism for a lot of practices...

You have a degree in history and you don't use primary sources? I'll stop thinking and jump to the conclusion you went to a liberal college.

 

[Meriweather]

Piecing together what people actually believed is a bit more tricky.

Agree. We have to be aware of what lens an author is looking through when he relates the story.

 

[JoeB131]

That is correct. We do not know the exact year he was born--not a lot of people kept calendars back then. People set the time around a known event. About the time of King Herod's death; about the time of Quirinius. It would be like me saying to a young person, "My siblings were born around the time Kennedy was president." It sets the stage. Some siblings may have been born during Eisenhower's term; others in Johnson's...but Kennedy is better known. Same thing when we note some of our ancestors lived around the time of the Civil War. Can't recall the exact dates, but that is the setting that everyone can picture.

Except we know exactly what day and year Julius Ceasar was born and died.

We don't know the day or year Jesus was born or died. It would seem people should know this stuff.

The best theory I have come across on how Jesus happened to be born in Bethlehem centers on the occupation of his father. Joseph was a carpenter, and in those days carpenters worked in stone, not wood. Guess what was being built not too far away in Jerusalem? The Temple. Made of stone. There is a lot we don't know for sure, but it is still fascinating research.

Uh, no, carpenters worked in wood. Masons worked in stone.. it was two completely different skill sets.

 

[Meriweather]

Catholicism is kind of a soft polytheism with the Trinity, Mary, and the veneration of saints....

Again a conclusion where someone stopped thinking. Simply because this is how you would rather see Catholic belief in the One God, it is far from what Catholics teach and what Catholics believe.

 

[JoeB131]

You have a degree in history and you don't use primary sources? I'll stop thinking and jump to the conclusion you went to a liberal college.

Again, I went to one where they didn't teach about taking snakes.

Yup. Talking snakes... you guys really believe that is a thing.

Agree. We have to be aware of what lens an author is looking through when he relates the story.

I agree...

Now, here's the thing... you guys can't even agree on the MUNDANE aspect of Jesus's existance, like when he was born or died... but then when you get to the more crazy stuff like walking on water or rising from the dead, we get into pure mythology.

 

[Meriweather]

Uh, no, carpenters worked in wood. Masons worked in stone.. it was two completely different skill sets.

You are using modern English for the word "carpenter". Think of "builder". Builders can work with many materials...wood, brick, stone. There are other theories that support this one that Joseph worked in stone. Again, theory. He could have, at times, worked with several kinds of material.

 

[Meriweather]

Again, I went to one where they didn't teach about taking snakes.

I went to Catholic school as well. I am guessing you missed the English lesson on metaphors? You certainly seem to take each and every word literally.

 

[Meriweather]

Now, here's the thing... you guys can't even agree on the MUNDANE aspect of Jesus's existance, like when he was born or died... but then when you get to the more crazy stuff like walking on water or rising from the dead, we get into pure mythology.

As I said earlier, birth and death dates may be mundane today, but they weren't of note a couple of thousand years ago--not for most people, and certainly not for the poor.

I am guessing you also were never taught about another possibility of that walking on water account? We were taught by people who had actually visited the area. At dawn and at dusk, a low fog can gather. People walking from shore may look as through they are walking on water, too. It is a great illusion. And guess what? We were also taught that we were free to believe either or. In the great scheme of things, it doesn't matter.

 

[JoeB131]

Again a conclusion where someone stopped thinking. Simply because this is how you would rather see Catholic belief in the One God, it is far from what Catholics teach and what Catholics believe.

Again a conclusion where someone stopped thinking. Simply because this is how you would rather see Catholic belief in the One God, it is far from what Catholics teach and what Catholics believe.

Except you don't beleive in one god, you believe in three Gods.

And a bunch of saints, angels, devils, and a lot of other silly nonsense....

Now, admitably, I will cop to my bias... I wouldn't hate Catholicism as much as I do if they hadn't made my childhood a living hell. (On the other hand, I've only encountered Mormons for a few weeks, and I truly hate those fuckers.)

 

[JoeB131]

I went to Catholic school as well. I am guessing you missed the English lesson on metaphors? You certainly seem to take each and every word literally.

Yes, I take words seriously when you are told by a crazed Lesbian with a ruler that the snake was really "Satan" and don't you dare doubt the story if don't want your knuckles rapped. Fucking Psychos.

I am guessing you also were never taught about another possibility of that walking on water account? We were taught by people who had actually visited the area. At dawn and at dusk, a low fog can gather. People walking from shore may look as through they are walking on water, too. It is a great illusion. And guess what? We were also taught that we were free to believe either or. In the great scheme of things, it doesn't matter.

Except when you are coming up with mundane excused to explain away the miracles, such as the Tide went out on the Red Sea and came back in, or

 

[Meriweather]

Except you don't beleive in one god, you believe in three Gods.

Wrong. But I do think it is interesting you feel you know what I "really" believe. Perhaps it is because a little complexity does not make sense to everyone. I get that.