Are we loosing more then gaining?

[Shogun]

That's my point.

People crying about out sourcing jobs (rightfully so ... I guess) yet we are benifiting from the exact same thing. I haven't seen a Sony TV factory, but I'm sure there is a few here someplace.

Those auto manufacture jobs are here, the dealers are here, the transports are here ... The only money that isn't is the "profit" ... But isn't the employment of all those workers worth anything?

Shogun would buy a Ford that has "out sourced" a factory to another nation, but he won't by a Nissan that has "in sourced" a factory here .... Which company is more pro-American?

But the question remains? WHY are the jobs outsourced?

Government Taxation, Regulation, and UNION labor.

Figure it out.

No....YOU figure out why other car companies are locating here then if it's as bad as you make it out to be?

.

It's because we have the market even if we (used to) demand the semblance of a living wage for our laborers. If Korea had the kind of auto buying market that we do you'd never know what a Hyundai was.

 

[Firehorse]

That's the arguement ... "China labor is cheap" ... Ok, I'll trust that your right on that, that would explain why Ford goes to China, but it doesn't answer why BMW is coming to America where, by your logic, our workers are paid more

That door doesn't swing both ways.

If the jobs here are being lost to china because our auto workers make too much, then logically, other automakers outside of America wouldn't be coming here like they are.

 

[The T]

That's my point.

People crying about out sourcing jobs (rightfully so ... I guess) yet we are benifiting from the exact same thing. I haven't seen a Sony TV factory, but I'm sure there is a few here someplace.

Those auto manufacture jobs are here, the dealers are here, the transports are here ... The only money that isn't is the "profit" ... But isn't the employment of all those workers worth anything?

Shogun would buy a Ford that has "out sourced" a factory to another nation, but he won't by a Nissan that has "in sourced" a factory here .... Which company is more pro-American?

But the question remains? WHY are the jobs outsourced?

Government Taxation, Regulation, and UNION labor.

Figure it out.

And I'm sure it has nothing to do with foreign workers who are happy to get paid $3/hour.

Yeah go figure like CHINA that Immelt is doing, and Obama Applauds.

 

[Firehorse]

But the question remains? WHY are the jobs outsourced?

Government Taxation, Regulation, and UNION labor.

Figure it out.

WRONG

if that was the reason, then why are BMW, Kia, Mercedes, Toyota and others moving their auto making jobs here? Supposedly they are smart businessman, why would they move to such a toxic manufacturing environment?

They wouldn't

The reasons you sighted they (these other auto manufacturers PROVED are incorrect. Those are political talking points, not neccesarly the facts

Both parties get political traction on the issue of job out sourcing. Dems us it to point at hw the rich are abandoning the American worker and the Pubs use it to rant about union labor.

The truth is neither party is correct, they, both parties are massaging the numbers to make their political point for the purposes of getting out the vote.

A few posts here are correct, but they failed to take the next logical step.

Reason number one: Demand. Economics 101. LOCATION. Build your produce where there is demand. BMW, Mercedes, Kia, Toyoda ... The list goes on and on ... They are building factories here because we are the largest consumer nation (it damn sure isn't because of our low work force wage is it pubs?) Ford builds in China because of demand for their product there, or do you think they are dumber then these auto makers? (God those guys at BMW are stupid for building here)

Reason number 2: Cut out the middleman if at all possible. Again, look at those other car companys that are moving here, they aren't stupid. They are going where the demand is and AVOIDING SHIPPING charges. I don't know how expencive those massive cargo carriers are, but avoiding that cost mire tgen offsets the cost of our high cost labor ... Else why would they build a factory here?

Why does Ford go to China? Demand and removing shipping fees.

This is not apples and oranges, it's apples and apples. There is no political traction in those economy 101 lessons. So ... Wait for it ...

Politicians on both side massage the numbers.

They tell you of American auto makers building factories overseas ignoring the auto factories being built here by other companies because quite frankly, it underscores both parties talking points. It makes the otherside look 'not so bad afterall'

If it helps the otherside we can't report it. But it IS TRUE

One post said "i'm not aware of this" ... Because it undermines the political talking points of both parties to report it.

I'm not making this up. I didn't link because my google-Fu has been found to be weak, but get on google map and bring up one of those locations and go to satilite view, these factories are huge, you can't miss them, and they are owned and being built by other "non american" companies

it shouldn't be a suprise that the politic in general are massaging numbers to further their political aims, I thought in interesting that some on this topic simply refuse to see the logic staring them in the face ....

It's NOT union labor costs that is drive Ford to China (though labor cost is putting those new factories in right to work states) and it's not 'forsaking the American worker that is driving Ford to China (though their labor is cheaper)

it's basic economics taught the first day of class ... Demand and cutting of the middle ... There is no other conclusion based on the FACT that other companys are coming here to build factories

 

[Firehorse]

As a automaker here sitting at a desk. Look out the window and 2 cars in every house hold in america and know, that's a population of about 200M. Then look at China and her 3 BILLION people where half don't have a single car.

Would want to pay the shipping cost of moving all the cars that China wants across the Pacific? Or would it make more business sense to open a factory there?

Your right ... Open 20 factories there? (my bad, I was thinking small time)

 

[Mr Natural]

I will never buy a car from a foreign owned company no matter how many 12.67/hr. jobs they provide at plants in America. Never gonna happen.

interesting position

When Chrysler owned Mercedes, had you the money, would you have concidered a Mercedes then?

Actually, Mercedes owned Chrysler.

 

[DontBeStupid]

As a automaker here sitting at a desk. Look out the window and 2 cars in every house hold in america and know, that's a population of about 200M. Then look at China and her 3 BILLION people where half don't have a single car.

Would want to pay the shipping cost of moving all the cars that China wants across the Pacific? Or would it make more business sense to open a factory there?

Your right ... Open 20 factories there? (my bad, I was thinking small time)

I know "conservatives" don't want to believe it, their fatih-based economics won't allow it, but sometimes companies make decisions that have nothing to do with taxes. I know, heresy!

If an automaker makes a high end car with a solid consumer base in the states, it could be more profitable to open a plant here, pay the workers more, but save a ton on shipping. Just like it might be more profitable for lower end cars, to make them overseas en masse and ship them en masse. It totally depends, but either way, taxes have nothing to do with it.

 

[Firehorse]

This country doesn't have near the demand for a auto then China. We already have 2 cars per family, even the poor have over one car per family.

You nullify the benifits of lower cost labor by adding the shipping that every car company seems to be trying to avoid.

 

[DontBeStupid]

This country doesn't have near the demand for a auto then China.

Demand is not just the desire to buy something, but also the ability to buy it.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

While you are scrambling for a retort go ahead and ask yourself how 17.00/hour differs from the Average of 56.00/hr at a domestic company plant.

Ask yourself why the ones paying $56 have been struggling for years and are slowly going bankrupt.

 

[Old Rocks]

I will never buy a car from a foreign owned company no matter how many 12.67/hr. jobs they provide at plants in America. Never gonna happen.

I will never buy a car from any American car company who has manufacturing plants outside of the United States. I guess that eliminates ALL "American" car companies.

So I'm sure "Shogun" can provide links to his claim of "12.67/hr. jobs" at foreign-operated car plants in the United States, right?

Unions man...UNIONS...

Wonderful things, unions. Without them, most would be working for 50 cents an hour. We need to unionize at least 2/3 rds of the jobs in this nation.

 

[Old Rocks]

Hmmmm....... I work for a Russian company. Made over $400 Sunday, not counting bennys. And they are not going broke. We also have profit sharing, and that was not counted in that figure. Could it be that we have a bunch of lazy incompetant American managers at the top?

 

[Mr Natural]

Hmmmm....... I work for a Russian company. Made over $400 Sunday, not counting bennys. And they are not going broke. We also have profit sharing, and that was not counted in that figure. Could it be that we have a bunch of lazy incompetant American managers at the top?

What we have in America is management that considers labor to be nothing more than another resource.

Hence, the term "Human Resources" for the department that used to called "Personnel".

 

[Shogun]

While you are scrambling for a retort go ahead and ask yourself how 17.00/hour differs from the Average of 56.00/hr at a domestic company plant.

Ask yourself why the ones paying $56 have been struggling for years and are slowly going bankrupt.

It's because we don't put a premium on having goods that are made in America anymore. Your grandfather knew all about the preference of a well-built American car over some rice burning piece of shit. And, if he worked in the auto plant, your grandmother likely didn't have to work to make ends meet. The strongest generation in America has, and always will be, the baby boomers; a generation whose wariness of foreign goods caused the retention of economic possibilities and stable living standards.

I guess you can always go ask a mom and pop store about the wal mart effect if you really give a shit enough to know the answer to your question.