Are the wealthy that seek tax havens America's true moochers?

[Billy000]

Apparently they think the government should pay for all the services it offers them. Highways be damned!

I think it's safe to say. The wealthy should be taxed the most not because it is what's fair, but because it's what's the most realistic. That is where the main source of our government funding comes from (regardless of whether or not the president in charge is over spending). Even if you don't agree with that logic, you should at least agree the greed that keeps wealthy people from paying taxes is flat out wrong.

Why are you being a whiny little ***** and calling people who follow the tax law greedy? I bet you take all the deductions allowed.

The revenue collected from the rich is important. It funds most of our government. I mean shit, the top 1% own 40% of the nation's wealth. Why shouldn't they pay the most?

As you said, the wealthy already pay the lion's share, so what are you suggesting? You want them to pay all of it?

I think we need to get rid of the Federal Reserve and crony capitalism. It's the dirty relationship between Washington and Wall Street behind most of our problems. They are the reason for the 1% running the country.

I am just suggesting they quit trying to avoid paying taxes.

 

[OnePercenter]

The revenue collected from the rich is important. It funds most of our government. I mean shit, the top 1% own 40% of the nation's wealth. Why shouldn't they pay the most?

We do pay the most, but effectively we pay the least. I paid 4% federal effective on $30M for 2014. What was your effective rate?

 

[OnePercenter]

They do, they pay about 60% of the taxes, maybe we should drop that to 40%. Wouldn't that be fair?

That's because 1% of $1M is more than 1% of $50K. Effectively we pay the least. Sales tax as a group we pay the least. Federal excise tax as a group we pay the least.

 

[Oldstyle]

Apparently they think the government should pay for all the services it offers them. Highways be damned!

I think it's safe to say. The wealthy should be taxed the most not because it is what's fair, but because it's what's the most realistic. That is where the main source of our government funding comes from (regardless of whether or not the president in charge is over spending). Even if you don't agree with that logic, you should at least agree the greed that keeps wealthy people from paying taxes is flat out wrong.

Why are you being a whiny little ***** and calling people who follow the tax law greedy? I bet you take all the deductions allowed.

The revenue collected from the rich is important. It funds most of our government. I mean shit, the top 1% own 40% of the nation's wealth. Why shouldn't they pay the most?

Ah Billy? The wealthy already pay the most. What part of that concept aren't you able to grasp?

Government is taking in a ton of money...that really isn't the problem. The problem is we already spend way too much and we're on the hook for trillions more because of entitlement spending.

The analogy I fall back on is that of a leaky bucket. You can keep on telling someone that they need to fill the bucket with more and more water but that won't mean you're going to end up full because the water you put into it simply gushes out faster than you can put it in. The intelligent thing to do is to fix the leaks. It's something that countries like Greece are coming to terms with now because they've never fixed their "leaks" but rather got neighbors like Germany to pour more water into their bucket.

 

[Oldstyle]

Let me be brutally frank here...the wealthy will NEVER simply just sit there and let government confiscate their capital! They will shelter it...they will hide it...they will move it out of the country. Preservation of wealth is what those people DO! If you want to see capital pulled out of our economy in massive amounts then pass dramatically higher taxes on the wealthy. Stop whining about what you think is "fair" and start coming to grips with economic reality.

 

[OnePercenter]

Ah Billy? The wealthy already pay the most. What part of that concept aren't you able to grasp?

Government is taking in a ton of money...that really isn't the problem. The problem is we already spend way too much and we're on the hook for trillions more because of entitlement spending.

The analogy I fall back on is that of a leaky bucket. You can keep on telling someone that they need to fill the bucket with more and more water but that won't mean you're going to end up full because the water you put into it simply gushes out faster than you can put it in. The intelligent thing to do is to fix the leaks. It's something that countries like Greece are coming to terms with now because they've never fixed their "leaks" but rather got neighbors like Germany to pour more water into their bucket.

Care to define 'ton of money?'

 

[OnePercenter]

Let me be brutally frank here...the wealthy will NEVER simply just sit there and let government confiscate their capital! They will shelter it...they will hide it...they will move it out of the country. Preservation of wealth is what those people DO! If you want to see capital pulled out of our economy in massive amounts then pass dramatically higher taxes on the wealthy. Stop whining about what you think is "fair" and start coming to grips with economic reality.

As long as the stupid middle class Americans continue voting for Republicans you are correct.

 

[OKTexas]

Why are you being a whiny little ***** and calling people who follow the tax law greedy? I bet you take all the deductions allowed.

The revenue collected from the rich is important. It funds most of our government. I mean shit, the top 1% own 40% of the nation's wealth. Why shouldn't they pay the most?

They do, they pay about 60% of the taxes, maybe we should drop that to 40%. Wouldn't that be fair?

60% really isn't enough but it's close. Of course it depends on how many people we are talking about.

We were talking about the 1%, the top 50% pay almost 99% of the income taxes, how about we get the bottom 50% with a little skin in the game as slow joe says. Then maybe they wouldn't be so quick to vote for crap government programs that don't work.

Sure i all for the bottom 50% to pay taxes. First we must raise the minimum wage.

Why? Who are we to interfere if someone wants to work for 7.5-8 bucks an hour, I didn't hear anyone bitching when I was working for 1.25 an hour.

 

[OKTexas]

They do, they pay about 60% of the taxes, maybe we should drop that to 40%. Wouldn't that be fair?

That's because 1% of $1M is more than 1% of $50K. Effectively we pay the least. Sales tax as a group we pay the least. Federal excise tax as a group we pay the least.

Semantics, the last bastion of a loser.

 

[Billy000]

The revenue collected from the rich is important. It funds most of our government. I mean shit, the top 1% own 40% of the nation's wealth. Why shouldn't they pay the most?

They do, they pay about 60% of the taxes, maybe we should drop that to 40%. Wouldn't that be fair?

60% really isn't enough but it's close. Of course it depends on how many people we are talking about.

We were talking about the 1%, the top 50% pay almost 99% of the income taxes, how about we get the bottom 50% with a little skin in the game as slow joe says. Then maybe they wouldn't be so quick to vote for crap government programs that don't work.

Sure i all for the bottom 50% to pay taxes. First we must raise the minimum wage.

Why? Who are we to interfere if someone wants to work for 7.5-8 bucks an hour, I didn't hear anyone bitching when I was working for 1.25 an hour.

Um the tiny minority (if even exists) who don't want to make more than that do not matter because they are a tiny minority. Enough said. Apparently you have no concept of inflafion.

 

[eagle1462010]

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/13databk.pdf

actual data related to topic

 

[eagle1462010]

Page 75............directly relates to the Liberal Brigade BTW...................

They keep stating that the Economy is great and how many people Obama is putting to work...........
TELL THAT TO THE IRS THEN..............

90,230,000 employed 2012
83,613,000 employed at close of fiscal year 2013...

OOPS..............so much for the liberal BS on jobs.........from the IRS.

 

[OKTexas]

They do, they pay about 60% of the taxes, maybe we should drop that to 40%. Wouldn't that be fair?

60% really isn't enough but it's close. Of course it depends on how many people we are talking about.

We were talking about the 1%, the top 50% pay almost 99% of the income taxes, how about we get the bottom 50% with a little skin in the game as slow joe says. Then maybe they wouldn't be so quick to vote for crap government programs that don't work.

Sure i all for the bottom 50% to pay taxes. First we must raise the minimum wage.

Why? Who are we to interfere if someone wants to work for 7.5-8 bucks an hour, I didn't hear anyone bitching when I was working for 1.25 an hour.

Um the tiny minority (if even exists) who don't want to make more than that do not matter because they are a tiny minority. Enough said. Apparently you have no concept of inflafion.

Of course i understand inflation, I also understand people who refuse to do what's necessary to advance themselves and want everyone else to pay their way. Giving them a raise they didn't earn is doing exactly that.

 

[Billy000]

Page 75............directly relates to the Liberal Brigade BTW...................

They keep stating that the Economy is great and how many people Obama is putting to work...........
TELL THAT TO THE IRS THEN..............

90,230,000 employed 2012
83,613,000 employed at close of fiscal year 2013...

OOPS..............so much for the liberal BS on jobs.........from the IRS.

One reason for that is retiring baby boomers. Another is more people going on disability. The third reason is discouraged workers. Wages are too low. Jobs themselves are sufficient but the wages are too low so people do not accept them. Obama tried fixing this by trying to raise the minimum wage and by installing job training programs in community colleges. Republicans blocked both of these. They are morons.

 

[Billy000]

60% really isn't enough but it's close. Of course it depends on how many people we are talking about.

We were talking about the 1%, the top 50% pay almost 99% of the income taxes, how about we get the bottom 50% with a little skin in the game as slow joe says. Then maybe they wouldn't be so quick to vote for crap government programs that don't work.

Sure i all for the bottom 50% to pay taxes. First we must raise the minimum wage.

Why? Who are we to interfere if someone wants to work for 7.5-8 bucks an hour, I didn't hear anyone bitching when I was working for 1.25 an hour.

Um the tiny minority (if even exists) who don't want to make more than that do not matter because they are a tiny minority. Enough said. Apparently you have no concept of inflafion.

Of course i understand inflation, I also understand people who refuse to do what's necessary to advance themselves and want everyone else to pay their way. Giving them a raise they didn't earn is doing exactly that.

See THAT right there is the fallacy in your republican bullshit. With the exception of the people who are retired or it is impossible for them for them to work because of disability, everyone has a job to quality for government assistance. The average person on food stamps makes $744 per MONTH. No one on food stamps is unemployed. They are just very poor and most of them have a dependent who is being taken care of.

 

[eagle1462010]

Page 75............directly relates to the Liberal Brigade BTW...................

They keep stating that the Economy is great and how many people Obama is putting to work...........
TELL THAT TO THE IRS THEN..............

90,230,000 employed 2012
83,613,000 employed at close of fiscal year 2013...

OOPS..............so much for the liberal BS on jobs.........from the IRS.

One reason for that is retiring baby boomers. Another is more people going on disability. The third reason is discouraged workers. Wages are too low. Jobs themselves are sufficient but the wages are too low so people do not accept them. Obama tried fixing this by trying to raise the minimum wage and by installing job training programs in community colleges. Republicans blocked both of these. They are morons.

Excuses..............in a nation of 317 million people only 83 million are working via the IRS data...........show me the data of nearly 7 million less people working in 1 year just because of retirements and COUNTER that with those of age to enter the work force.

The gov't has been feeding us BS by manipulating data for a very long time..........fudging data to make unemployment data look better than it really is in reality.

Job training doesn't mean squat if the jobs aren't there.
Raising the minimum wage would actually decrease the number of jobs as businesses adjust for it.

To the op, look at the data and you'll see that the upper classes pay the LION'S SHARE of INDIVIDUAL RETURNS..............as 40% made less than 25,000.........and are basically not paying taxes anyway by IRS data......LESS THAN 3% make more than the magic number of 200,000 a year and are already paying a high total in overall taxes............

You could take all of their money and it wouldn't fix the debt problem we have today.

 

[OKTexas]

We were talking about the 1%, the top 50% pay almost 99% of the income taxes, how about we get the bottom 50% with a little skin in the game as slow joe says. Then maybe they wouldn't be so quick to vote for crap government programs that don't work.

Sure i all for the bottom 50% to pay taxes. First we must raise the minimum wage.

Why? Who are we to interfere if someone wants to work for 7.5-8 bucks an hour, I didn't hear anyone bitching when I was working for 1.25 an hour.

Um the tiny minority (if even exists) who don't want to make more than that do not matter because they are a tiny minority. Enough said. Apparently you have no concept of inflafion.

Of course i understand inflation, I also understand people who refuse to do what's necessary to advance themselves and want everyone else to pay their way. Giving them a raise they didn't earn is doing exactly that.

See THAT right there is the fallacy in your republican bullshit. With the exception of the people who are retired or it is impossible for them for them to work because of disability, everyone has a job to quality for government assistance. The average person on food stamps makes $744 per MONTH. No one on food stamps is unemployed. They are just very poor and most of them have a dependent who is being taken care of.

Why are you changing the subject?

 

[eagle1462010]

As of 2010, 68.8% of Federal individual tax receipts including payroll taxes, were paid by the top 20% of taxpayers by income group - which earned 50% of all household income. The top 1%, which took home 19.3% paid 24.2% whereas the bottom 20% paid 0.4% due to deductions and the Earned income tax credit.[10][11]

 

[Billy000]

Page 75............directly relates to the Liberal Brigade BTW...................

They keep stating that the Economy is great and how many people Obama is putting to work...........
TELL THAT TO THE IRS THEN..............

90,230,000 employed 2012
83,613,000 employed at close of fiscal year 2013...

OOPS..............so much for the liberal BS on jobs.........from the IRS.

One reason for that is retiring baby boomers. Another is more people going on disability. The third reason is discouraged workers. Wages are too low. Jobs themselves are sufficient but the wages are too low so people do not accept them. Obama tried fixing this by trying to raise the minimum wage and by installing job training programs in community colleges. Republicans blocked both of these. They are morons.

Excuses..............in a nation of 317 million people only 83 million are working via the IRS data...........show me the data of nearly 7 million less people working in 1 year just because of retirements and COUNTER that with those of age to enter the work force.

The gov't has been feeding us BS by manipulating data for a very long time..........fudging data to make unemployment data look better than it really is in reality.

Job training doesn't mean squat if the jobs aren't there.
Raising the minimum wage would actually decrease the number of jobs as businesses adjust for it.

To the op, look at the data and you'll see that the upper classes pay the LION'S SHARE of INDIVIDUAL RETURNS..............as 40% made less than 25,000.........and are basically not paying taxes anyway by IRS data......LESS THAN 3% make more than the magic number of 200,000 a year and are already paying a high total in overall taxes............

You could take all of their money and it wouldn't fix the debt problem we have today.

The labor participation rate has been declining since the Bush years. A total of 11 million private jobs have been created since Obama took office. The unemployment rate is at 5.6%. These are the facts that matter.

Many jobs are there and people are not taking them. This is for two main reasons 1) Many aren't qualified for certain jobs. 2) The wages are too low. There is a slight shortage but again the unemployment rate speaks for itself.

The jobs lost from raising the minimum wage depends how high it was raised. 10.10 per hour would cause the loss of about 500,000 jobs. However, economic demand would go up. People would be spending more money. That means over time jobs will be created. On a long enough time line, the economy would improve greatly.

No one ever said raising taxes would fix the debt. Raising taxes will limit how much gov debt accumulates.

 

[eagle1462010]

Page 75............directly relates to the Liberal Brigade BTW...................

They keep stating that the Economy is great and how many people Obama is putting to work...........
TELL THAT TO THE IRS THEN..............

90,230,000 employed 2012
83,613,000 employed at close of fiscal year 2013...

OOPS..............so much for the liberal BS on jobs.........from the IRS.

One reason for that is retiring baby boomers. Another is more people going on disability. The third reason is discouraged workers. Wages are too low. Jobs themselves are sufficient but the wages are too low so people do not accept them. Obama tried fixing this by trying to raise the minimum wage and by installing job training programs in community colleges. Republicans blocked both of these. They are morons.

Excuses..............in a nation of 317 million people only 83 million are working via the IRS data...........show me the data of nearly 7 million less people working in 1 year just because of retirements and COUNTER that with those of age to enter the work force.

The gov't has been feeding us BS by manipulating data for a very long time..........fudging data to make unemployment data look better than it really is in reality.

Job training doesn't mean squat if the jobs aren't there.
Raising the minimum wage would actually decrease the number of jobs as businesses adjust for it.

To the op, look at the data and you'll see that the upper classes pay the LION'S SHARE of INDIVIDUAL RETURNS..............as 40% made less than 25,000.........and are basically not paying taxes anyway by IRS data......LESS THAN 3% make more than the magic number of 200,000 a year and are already paying a high total in overall taxes............

You could take all of their money and it wouldn't fix the debt problem we have today.

The labor participation rate has been declining since the Bush years. A total of 11 million private jobs have been created since Obama took office. The unemployment rate is at 5.6%. These are the facts that matter.

Many jobs are there and people are not taking them. This is for two main reasons 1) Many aren't qualified for certain jobs. 2) The wages are too low. There is a slight shortage but again the unemployment rate speaks for itself.

The jobs lost from raising the minimum wage depends how high it was raised. 10.10 per hour would cause the loss of about 500,000 jobs. However, economic demand would go up. People would be spending more money. That means over time jobs will be created. On a long enough time line, the economy would improve greatly.

No one ever said raising taxes would fix the debt. Raising taxes will limit how much gov debt accumulates.

I would agree that the labor participation rate has been dropping for a long time, BUT the UNEMPLOYMENT RATE IS BS........................

They manipulate that data, because it doesn't include the numbers who simply have stopped looking for work or have decided to go on the welfare pay rolls of the U.S...................

They manipulate that data...........FACT is it's BS and everyone knows it...............

IN A GOVERNMENT OF LIES, TRUTH IS TREASON................and WE THE PEOPLE are tired of their LIES.