Are the Palestinians finally waking up to their poor leadership?

[teddyearp]

These are both from Ma'an. Looks like opinion polls in the Palestinian territories point to the Palestinians getting tired of Abbas:

Poll: Majority of Palestinian public want Abbas to resign

They're also apparently getting tired of Hamas too, from the article above and this one:

Hamas pledges to dissolve administrative committee, hold elections

I hope that someone who really wants peace and to stop using their citizens as political propaganda and money tools will step up.

 

[Bleipriester]

"leadership"

 

[José]

I have a question for Teddyearp and Old Man Clanton who thanked the OP:

Shouldn't Israel organize a plebiscite in the WB asking people if they want the end of the armed and peaceful struggle for their rights and the creation of a palestinian state in those territories?

Can you imagine a better way to completely delegitimize the entire palestinian cause?

Or maybe... just maybe... Earp, Clanton and Israel are afraid of the results.

 

[Sixties Fan]

I have a question for Teddyearp and Old Man Clanton who thanked the OP:

Shouldn't Israel organize a plebiscite in the WB asking people if they want the end of the armed and peaceful struggle for their rights and the creation of a palestinian state in those territories?

Can you imagine a better way to completely delegitimize the entire palestinian cause?

Or maybe... just maybe... Earp, Clanton and Israel are afraid of the results.

You any word you like, there is something called the Oslo Accords where the PA was to diminish and put an end to educating the Arabs against Jews and Israel, and prepare them for peace and a Peace treaty.

The PA chose to do the opposite by not accepting Peace offers, starting "intifadas", continuing to educate all the Arabs to think they are being occupied by Israel, and that the land was ever theirs to begin with.

The Arabs delegitimized their cause from the beginning by refusing partition in 1937 and 1947. Starting wars in 1948, 1967 and 1973 to destroy Israel. Continuing to start wars from Gaza or with Hezbollah (they are not even Arabs from Palestine, but from Lebanon) continuing to pile up weapons from Iran and Qatar in order to destroy Israel.

The people are different from the leaders. There are those amongst the people who want to see an end to what Hamas and the PA keep doing, which is going against having peace with Israel.
But they do not have money, power or a voice. And get crushed if they oppose what their leaders do.

Any questions of when this conflict is going to end must be forwarded to the leaders of Hamas, PA, those who are butting in from Iran and Lebanon, or any other land conquered by the Arabs, and now in the hands of the Arabs. Muslims only, of course.

Let us know what results you get after you try to get any answer from any of these Arab or Iranian leaders.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Sixties Fan
The people are different from the leaders. There are those amongst the people who want to see an end to what Hamas and the PA keep doing, which is going against having peace with Israel.
But they do not have money, power or a voice. And get crushed if they oppose what their leaders do.

But for some mysterious reason you and the government of Israel seem to be terribly afraid of letting the Palestinians who want to give up their natural rights speak for themselves through a plebiscite organized by Israel and monitored by international observers.

 

[teddyearp]

I have a question for Teddyearp and Old Man Clanton who thanked the OP:

Shouldn't Israel organize a plebiscite in the WB asking people if they want the end of the armed and peaceful struggle for their rights and the creation of a palestinian state in those territories?

Can you imagine a better way to completely delegitimize the entire palestinian cause?

Or maybe... just maybe... Earp, Clanton and Israel are afraid of the results.

I am not afraid of this at all. A two state solution would be the best thing and probably most hoped for by all the rank and file inhabitants of that area. If Israel organized the plebiscite however, the current Palestinian leadership and other Pro-Palestinian folk would just consider this as 'meddling'.

No, I wish that a new Palestinian leadership could come to bear. Leadership that stops looking at the past, and only looks at the present and to a future peace. Where the Palestinian leadership would just say enough is enough. Stop and say, "No more incitement to violence, we will take what we have and proclaim a lasting peace in our newly created state". Then the extremists on the Israeli side would loose their 'ammunition' as well for creating further settlements, etc.

Get it?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Unpopular Abbas Targets Palestinian Critics

 

[José]

Originally posted by teddyearp
I am not afraid of this at all. A two state solution would be the best thing and probably most hoped for by all the rank and file inhabitants of that area. If Israel organized the plebiscite however, the current Palestinian leadership and other Pro-Palestinian folk would just consider this as 'meddling'.

No, I wish that a new Palestinian leadership could come to bear. Leadership that stops looking at the past, and only looks at the present and to a future peace. Where the Palestinian leadership would just say enough is enough. Stop and say, "No more incitement to violence, we will take what we have and proclaim a lasting peace in our newly created state". Then the extremists on the Israeli side would loose their 'ammunition' as well for creating further settlements, etc.

Get it?

The only thing I got from all you, Sixties Fan and Old Man Clanton said is that you keep saying things like:

Originally posted by Sixties Fan
There are those amongst the people who want to see an end to what Hamas and the PA keep doing, which is going against having peace with Israel.

Originally posted by teddyearp
A two state solution would be the best thing and probably most hoped for by all the rank and file inhabitants of that area.

But when someone hints at the possibility of asking the Palestinian people what they really want, directly, without any middlemen, you are all suddenly stricken by a collective crisis of diarrhea and immediately start making up one pathetic excuse after another to deny them the right to speak for themselves:

Originally posted by teddyearp
If Israel organized the plebiscite however, the current Palestinian leadership and other Pro-Palestinian folk would just consider this as 'meddling'.

This is a weak excuse, earp....

Have you ever heard of something called secret vote? Voters would be totally protected from any retaliation by the basic right to an anonymous vote.

And Israel organizing the public consultation was just a suggestion... the plebiscite could be a organized by the PA and Israel or just the PA as long as it was subjected to international scrutiny.

Talk about grasping at straws.

 

[José]

Teddyearp, Sixties Fan and Old Man Clanton:

"Palestinians yearn for a two state solution and the abdication of their natural rights BUT IN THE NAME OF ALL THINGS SACRED IN THE WORLD, DON'T YOU DARE ASK THEM DIRECTLY!!"

Truly pathetic.

 

[flacaltenn]

I have a question for Teddyearp and Old Man Clanton who thanked the OP:

Shouldn't Israel organize a plebiscite in the WB asking people if they want the end of the armed and peaceful struggle for their rights and the creation of a palestinian state in those territories?

Can you imagine a better way to completely delegitimize the entire palestinian cause?

Or maybe... just maybe... Earp, Clanton and Israel are afraid of the results.

I don't know why ISRAEL should be the ones to organize this. Otherwise, I have no issue with a plebiscite on peace. NO one is really gonna like the answer to a VAGUE question like that. I think a more USEFUL question would be -- Who is capable of representing Palestine in administration and negotiations? And have a list of the different factions.

I suppose Allah should be on the list.

I think however that the factions will fight to the death over any power gained. Like they did to destroy the PA.
So my bet on peace has a "Mandate" for Palestine run by Egypt, Israel, Jordan, Lebanon. UNTIL such time as the Palestinians are READY for self-government. And BY a date certain. Can't prolong this another 70 years.

 

[teddyearp]

Teddyearp, Sixties Fan and Old Man Clanton:

"Palestinians yearn for a two state solution and the abdication of their natural rights BUT IN THE NAME OF ALL THINGS SACRED IN THE WORLD, DON'T YOU DARE ASK THEM DIRECTLY!!"

Truly pathetic.

Two questions for you. Do you recognize the State of Israel? Or do you think it should be wiped off the face of the map?

I suspect it is the latter because it has blinded you to what I actually wrote. I have nothing against asking them directly, as I said when I referred to the rank and file Palestinian. I am for a two state solution, but you seem to be blinded by some hatred for you not to have read that in my remarks.

I am sure you will misconstrue what I'm writing now, so I will just quit with you.

 

[Roudy]

Teddyearp, Sixties Fan and Old Man Clanton:

"Palestinians yearn for a two state solution and the abdication of their natural rights BUT IN THE NAME OF ALL THINGS SACRED IN THE WORLD, DON'T YOU DARE ASK THEM DIRECTLY!!"

Truly pathetic.

Two questions for you. Do you recognize the State of Israel? Or do you think it should be wiped off the face of the map?

I suspect it is the latter because it has blinded you to what I actually wrote. I have nothing against asking them directly, as I said when I referred to the rank and file Palestinian. I am for a two state solution, but you seem to be blinded by some hatred for you not to have read that in my remarks.

I am sure you will misconstrue what I'm writing now, so I will just quit with you.

Is that a trick question for Jose Feliciano?

 

[teddyearp]

Depends on how tricky the answer is, lol.

 

[fanger]

Israel keeps assassinating Any Palestinian who might lead

 

[teddyearp]

Israel keeps assassinating Any Palestinian who might lead

Link?

 

[fanger]

LMGTFY

 

[teddyearp]

Some 'leaders' in that top link!

 

[José]

Originally posted by Roudy
Jose Feliciano, the latino anti-semite

I don't hate Jews but I also don't believe they are the totally innocent victims of human history the modern western society say they are as I have proved several times by bringing up the case of congressman Emanuel Celler.

I strongly reject any violation of the human or civil rights of any person of jewish faith only the monitoring of the community as a whole, just like the FBI currently monitors hundreds of thousands of american citizens who happen to be Gentiles without trespassing any or at least most of their civil rights.

I would also support any non-supremacist jewish state if this is the desire of at least part of the world Jewry.

Compare my attitude towards Jews to that of Old Man Clanton, who used to ambush mexican smugglers on their way to american border towns, steal their horses and all the silver they carried to buy alcoholic beverages, and not satisfied with all that, shot and ordered his henchmen to shoot the poor Mexicans in cold blood while they begged for their lives.

Today Old Man Clanton displays the same racist, callous disregard for the lives and human rights of palestinian arabs who are killed by IDF snippers in much the same cowardly way he used to do in Texas, New Mexico and the Territory of Arizona.

So if you really want to see a real bigot, not only against Hispanics and Latinos but now also against the arab people of Palestine, look no further than your zionist buddy, Old Man Clanton.

 

[José]

Originally posted by teddyearp
No, I wish that a new Palestinian leadership could come to bear. Leadership that stops looking at the past, and only looks at the present and to a future peace. Where the Palestinian leadership would just say enough is enough. Stop and say, "No more incitement to violence, we will take what we have and proclaim a lasting peace in our newly created state".

Originally posted by flacaltenn
I think a more USEFUL question would be -- Who is capable of representing Palestine in administration and negotiations?

According to teddyearp and flacaltenn the problems lies with the palestinian leadership.

But if the problem is not the leadership but the entire palestinian society from which those leaders emerge you won't solve the conflict by changing the leadership in a million years even if you put the entire palestinian population in power one individual at a time...

That's why it is important to examine the palestinian society through a public consultation in order to locate the source of the "problem", if it is the people or their leaders.

Teddy and flacaltenn believe the partition of Palestine is possible you just have to find the right leader.

Teddyearp goes as far as declaring most Palestinians are in favor of the partition and definitive termination of rights.

They even declare they are in favor of a plebiscite:

Teddyearp: I have nothing against asking them directly

Flacaltenn: Otherwise, I have no issue with a plebiscite on peace.

but all their statements are immediately followed by a deluge of excuses, qualifications and backpedaling:

Teddyearp:
If Israel organized the plebiscite however, the Palestinian leadership would just consider this as 'meddling'.

And now flacaltenn:

NO one is really gonna like the answer to a VAGUE question like that.

There's always a pretext, an excuse to invalidate any attempt to let the palestinian arabs speak for themselves:

But the PA would consider this as meddling, says earp.

However the question is too vague, says flacaltenn.

but this, but that...

however this, however that...

 

[José]

When you claim to be the spokesman of a group of people but at the same time, are absolutely terrified at the prospect of letting the people you supposedly represent speak their minds freely, chances are the only person you're really representing is yourself.