Palestinians are not HAMAS!?

[toobfreak]

Pffff. Comparing Ukraine with Russia, calling Ukraine a flea in that context and having no chance against a bigger neighbour.

Where did I ever mention any of that? A flea? Give it up while you are ahead.

 

[ESay]

Where did I ever mention any of that? A flea? Give it up while you are ahead.

Man, it will take some time and require some effort to find your posts about that. Do you want a deal?

 

[toomuchtime_]

It has to be a multilateral agreement, involving a number of Arab countries. And yes, both the Palestinians and Israel should be ready for concessions.

I'm not sure what a multilateral agreement would achieve if the Palestinians aren't willing to settle for anything less than all of Israel. The premise of the Oslo Accords, that the Palestinians would be satisfied with a state in the territories was clearly invalid, and today, there is no Palestinian leader who can credibly offer peace to Israel no matter what the rest of the world thinks, so who would represent the Palestinians? To whom would Israel make concessions? Who would be able to make concessions for the Palestinians?

 

[ESay]

I'm not sure what a multilateral agreement would achieve if the Palestinians aren't willing to settle for anything less than all of Israel. The premise of the Oslo Accords, that the Palestinians would be satisfied with a state in the territories was clearly invalid, and today, there is no Palestinian leader who can credibly offer peace to Israel no matter what the rest of the world thinks, so who would represent the Palestinians? To whom would Israel make concessions? Who would be able to make concessions for the Palestinians?

Who will represent Palestinians? I don't know. I am in favor of open elections on Palestinian territories under international monitoring. Should a 'political wing' of Hamas be allowed to these elections? I think that yes. As a result of political transition a 'military wing' of Hamas should be forbidden, arms confiscated and military units disbanded.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Who will represent Palestinians? I don't know. I am in favor of open elections on Palestinian territories under international monitoring. Should a 'political wing' of Hamas be allowed to these elections? I think that yes. As a result of political transition a 'military wing' of Hamas should be forbidden, arms confiscated and military units disbanded.

I don't think one can reasonably make a distinction between Hamas' military and political wings. Hamas' Charter commits Hamas to the destruction of Israel, and although it was written in 1987, in a 2017 amendment, it reaffirmed that commitment, so unless Hamas trashed it Charter, what would there be to talk about? Hamas would have to become, effectively, not-Hamas, but then would it have any supporters?

 

[ESay]

I don't think one can reasonably make a distinction between Hamas' military and political wings. Hamas' Charter commits Hamas to the destruction of Israel, and although it was written in 1987, in a 2017 amendment, it reaffirmed that commitment, so unless Hamas trashed it Charter, what would there be to talk about? Hamas would have to become, effectively, not-Hamas, but then would it have any supporters?

I don't know. Of course 'reformed' Hamas should abolish their doctrine of Israel's destruction.

I understand that any peaceful solution raises more questions now than gives answers. But the ways should be found, anyway. The region badly needs its 'Good Friday' agreement.

 

[toomuchtime_]

I don't know. Of course 'reformed' Hamas should abolish their doctrine of Israel's destruction.

I understand that any peaceful solution raises more questions now than gives answers. But the ways should be found, anyway. The region badly needs its 'Good Friday' agreement.

I think there is one basic problem that is never, to my knowledge, addressed by people arguing for a two state "solution." The Palestinians are just not ready to give the hope of conquering all of Israel and so there is little motivation for settling for a stare in the territories. Hamas says straight out that it will settle for nothing less, and Arafat demanded a right of return for all the refugees, which would have made Israel a Muslim majority nation, and pro Palestinian demonstrators chant "From the River to the sea, Palestine will be free" which clearly means they want all of Israel. There doesn't seem to be more than a smattering of Palestinians who would be content with a peaceful state in the territories, so while I understand the desire by much of the world to believe there is a peaceful solution, I don't see any evidence it might be achievable.

 

[ESay]

I think there is one basic problem that is never, to my knowledge, addressed by people arguing for a two state "solution." The Palestinians are just not ready to give the hope of conquering all of Israel and so there is little motivation for settling for a stare in the territories. Hamas says straight out that it will settle for nothing less, and Arafat demanded a right of return for all the refugees, which would have made Israel a Muslim majority nation, and pro Palestinian demonstrators chant "From the River to the sea, Palestine will be free" which clearly means they want all of Israel. There doesn't seem to be more than a smattering of Palestinians who would be content with a peaceful state in the territories, so while I understand the desire by much of the world to believe there is a peaceful solution, I don't see any evidence it might be achievable.

The ship 'Two-state solution' has already sailed and isn't bound to return. I doubt the Jews are ready to withdraw from East Jerusalem and the Area C.

Moreover. The very idea of a viable Palestinian state formed on virtually two enclaves being divided by Israeli territory seemed quite dubious for me.

You will be stunned but my idea is even worse. One state for two nations.

 

[Pastelli]

From 2021

Poll finds dramatic rise in Palestinian support for Hamas

JERUSALEM (AP) — A new poll released Tuesday finds a dramatic surge in Palestinian support for Hamas following last month's Gaza war, with around three quarters viewing the Islamic militants as victors in a battle against Israel to defend Jerusalem and its holy sites.

apnews.com

The scientific poll by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research also found plummeting support for President Mahmoud Abbas, who was sidelined by the war but is seen internationally as a partner for reviving the long-defunct peace process.
The poll found that 53% of Palestinians believe Hamas is “most deserving of representing and leading the Palestinian people,” while only 14% prefer Abbas’ secular Fatah party.
but said it also resembles previous swings toward Hamas during times of confrontation. Those all dissipated within three to six months as Hamas failed to deliver on promises of change.

So, they like HAMAS when they promise to kill Jews. Lolz
No, they shouldnt be conflated at all

Ideologically, most Palestinian Arab youths are exposed to hate.

 

[TNHarley]

Ideologically, most Palestinian Arab youths are exposed to hate.

So I have seen. Its sad. Being bred to hate..