Are the numerous dog breeds proof of evolution?

[Fort Fun Indiana]

LOL, again wolves and dogs are the same species,

Yes Frannie, i taught you that 5 of your screennames ago.

 

[Turtlesoup]

I don't have a science background and don't know much about evolution but I believe the answer to my question is YES. What say you? Here's an article that delves into the topic.

From Wolves to Pugs and Great Danes – The History of Dog Breeds

Updated October 24, 2024 – Learn about the evolution of dogs and how they went from wolves to the loving pets we keep in our homes.

www.morrisanimalfoundation.org

Yes

 

[Turtlesoup]

That depends on the definition of evolution doesn't it? Evolution, to me is, a morphing of one thing to another, incrementally, usually over time- dogs have always been dogs- (although I have a book [fiction] about how Comanche's first introduction to horses they called them big dogs) - my youngest son rented his RV trailer to a lady this past week end at a horse show, which he delivered to her, and it recalled when he was kid he used to visit a friend, a lot, who had horses and he had (and still does) think they're just big dogs because of they interact with humans

I had horses when I was a kid----they do develop their own personalities and act like large babies---in otherwords, dogs. They plot, they play practical jokes, they get jealous, they like attention, they get bored and cause trouble when bored, they are curious, and they can be remarkably hard headed ( either so intelligent that they are inquistive or so dumb that they don't learn quickly-----one of my mothers horses got bit twice by a rattle snake--he got bit once and stuck his head back down to see what bit him and got bit again.)

 

[Dusty]

LOL, again wolves and dogs are the same species,

Yes Frannie, i taught you that 5 of your screennames ago.

Yes you are the greatest teacher ever, millions would be ignorant without your schooling

 

[Mushroom]

If you took a dog and put it in an isolated place where life was continually difficult but not impossible for several million years what you would end up with would not be a dog. They would adapt to their environment. Of course evolution is a real thing because adaptation is an observable phenomena. The origin of life itself is almost a separate question. We still don't have a good answer to how the first living cell came to be. After that it's settled science.

Do not be so sure. Genetic variation is not just about the need to adapt. DNA is so good at what it does because it is fairly unstable, and wants to change. For good or bad, it is just that the bad ones rarely last long.

The longest running evolution experiment has been going for over 30 years. Using E. Coli bacteria, they recently passed over 50,000 generations. And some of the mutations discovered are amazing, and they are kept in a perfectly controlled environment.

E. coli long-term evolution experiment - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And the canine evolved over 40 million years ago, so I have no doubt that what would appear at the end would still be a canine.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

If you took a dog and put it in an isolated place where life was continually difficult but not impossible for several million years what you would end up with would not be a dog. They would adapt to their environment. Of course evolution is a real thing because adaptation is an observable phenomena. The origin of life itself is almost a separate question. We still don't have a good answer to how the first living cell came to be. After that it's settled science.

Do not be so sure. Genetic variation is not just about the need to adapt. DNA is so good at what it does because it is fairly unstable, and wants to change. For good or bad, it is just that the bad ones rarely last long.

The longest running evolution experiment has been going for over 30 years. Using E. Coli bacteria, they recently passed over 50,000 generations. And some of the mutations discovered are amazing, and they are kept in a perfectly controlled environment.

E. coli long-term evolution experiment - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And the canine evolved over 40 million years ago, so I have no doubt that what would appear at the end would still be a canine.

Well said. But the last bit is a tautology, in the cladistic sense. It will always be necessarily true. 40 million or 4 billion years from now.

 

[occupied]

If you took a dog and put it in an isolated place where life was continually difficult but not impossible for several million years what you would end up with would not be a dog. They would adapt to their environment. Of course evolution is a real thing because adaptation is an observable phenomena. The origin of life itself is almost a separate question. We still don't have a good answer to how the first living cell came to be. After that it's settled science.

Do not be so sure. Genetic variation is not just about the need to adapt. DNA is so good at what it does because it is fairly unstable, and wants to change. For good or bad, it is just that the bad ones rarely last long.

The longest running evolution experiment has been going for over 30 years. Using E. Coli bacteria, they recently passed over 50,000 generations. And some of the mutations discovered are amazing, and they are kept in a perfectly controlled environment.

E. coli long-term evolution experiment - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And the canine evolved over 40 million years ago, so I have no doubt that what would appear at the end would still be a canine.

Canines fit into their habitats perfectly. There is no need for them to change their form. Whales were once very similar to dogs but for whatever reason they were forced into an aquatic environment where they had to adapt or perish. Climate change and continental drift has served to isolate animals in habitats where they are just barely able to survive. It is the pressure of living on the knife edge of survival that drives evolution.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I believe to the contrary, that all the breeds of dogs demonstrate that with all the tampering ---- dogs remain dogs, cats remain cats, and calling a horse a dog doesn't mean that either is related...

fit into their habitats perfectly. There is no need for them to change their form. Whales were once very similar to dogs but for whatever reason they were forced into an aquatic environment where they had to adapt or perish. Climate change and continental drift has served to isolate animals in habitats where they are just barely able to survive. It is the pressure of living on the knife edge of survival that drives evolution.

And the most beautiful thing about this elegant explanation is that all the evidence supports it, from every field of science. The mRNA evidence aligns perfectly with the fossil record which aligns perfectly with radiometric dating which aligns perfectly with physics which is the foundation of all chemistry and biology which both show us how it works.

Nothing out of place. No rabbits in the Cambrian, no mystery populations of any species with mRNA contradicting the apparent flow from the first vertebrates to extant vertebrates.

The ironically self-titled and self-aggrandizing "Creation Scientists" have been free to use any and all means to upend the theory. They have produced not one shred of evidence that would support that. Not one. Not one real challenge or blatant anachronism.

Add it all up... And this is why we safely call the Theory of Evolution a fact.

 

[Mushroom]

If you took a dog and put it in an isolated place where life was continually difficult but not impossible for several million years what you would end up with would not be a dog. They would adapt to their environment. Of course evolution is a real thing because adaptation is an observable phenomena. The origin of life itself is almost a separate question. We still don't have a good answer to how the first living cell came to be. After that it's settled science.

Do not be so sure. Genetic variation is not just about the need to adapt. DNA is so good at what it does because it is fairly unstable, and wants to change. For good or bad, it is just that the bad ones rarely last long.

The longest running evolution experiment has been going for over 30 years. Using E. Coli bacteria, they recently passed over 50,000 generations. And some of the mutations discovered are amazing, and they are kept in a perfectly controlled environment.

E. coli long-term evolution experiment - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And the canine evolved over 40 million years ago, so I have no doubt that what would appear at the end would still be a canine.

Canines fit into their habitats perfectly. There is no need for them to change their form. Whales were once very similar to dogs but for whatever reason they were forced into an aquatic environment where they had to adapt or perish. Climate change and continental drift has served to isolate animals in habitats where they are just barely able to survive. It is the pressure of living on the knife edge of survival that drives evolution.

You do not get it. They do not have to change, but they will.

Evolution is always ongoing, no matter what. Change is just how things are, and environmental factors have almost nothing to do with it.

That will often select which mutations survive, but the mutations will always happen.

And for whales, that was to fill a biological niche. One of the curious things about evolution and extinction, is that it often leaves gaps behind when a major species dies off. In north America, it was the large predators at the end of the last ice age. In the oceans, it was predators. There were none, and the distant ancestors of cetaceans moved in and filled it. And evolved quickly, because they were instantly the apex predator.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

They do not have to change, but they will.

Yes. Given enough time, they would change by genetic drift alone. It's inevitable. We couldn't stop it worldwide if we tried. Even the most "static" species in the fossil record underwent small changes. The advantage all of the static species seem to share is that there was a LOT of individuals at any given time all admixing on the whole. So even the random processes at work had diminished effect over the whole. But any and all of these species would almost certainly still change, given enough time.

I wonder if some models, barring extinction, may stay "static" for billions of years. even if true, this doesn't upend evolution in any way.

 

[sealybobo]

I don't have a science background and don't know much about evolution but I believe the answer to my question is YES. What say you? Here's an article that delves into the topic.

From Wolves to Pugs and Great Danes – The History of Dog Breeds

Updated October 24, 2024 – Learn about the evolution of dogs and how they went from wolves to the loving pets we keep in our homes.

www.morrisanimalfoundation.org

Unkotare and Paul Essien are saying I'm racist for comparing how we bred dogs to what we did to blacks from the 16th century to CURRENT. I'm not trying to be racist but if we could turn a wolf into a dumb lab or a smart border collie, isn't it possible that we may have held blacks brain development back when we didn't let them read and right for over 400 years? Unkotare keeps saying "dogs aren't people stupid" but does that matter? Aren't we all animals? Are humans not subject to the rules of evolution?

I'm not blaming blacks. We did that to them. At least we did for 400 plus years. Before slavery Africans were not going to school. Whites started educating our masses in the 16th century. Blacks not until the 20th century really.

 

[sealybobo]

They do not have to change, but they will.

Yes. Given enough time, they would change by genetic drift alone. It's inevitable. We couldn't stop it worldwide if we tried. Even the most "static" species in the fossil record underwent small changes. The advantage all of the static species seem to share is that there was a LOT of individuals at any given time all admixing on the whole. So even the random processes at work had diminished effect over the whole. But any and all of these species would almost certainly still change, given enough time.

I wonder if some models, barring extinction, may stay "static" for billions of years. even if true, this doesn't upend evolution in any way.

I’m hoping some fair minded people would chime in. If for 400 years we didn’t allow American blacks to learn while whites were learning science math and English and even though slowly, our white brains have been evolving differently for over 500 years. That may seem like a drop in the bucket but look at how much smarter a border collie is and we only created that breed in the 1800s.

 

[progressive hunter]

They do not have to change, but they will.

Yes. Given enough time, they would change by genetic drift alone. It's inevitable. We couldn't stop it worldwide if we tried. Even the most "static" species in the fossil record underwent small changes. The advantage all of the static species seem to share is that there was a LOT of individuals at any given time all admixing on the whole. So even the random processes at work had diminished effect over the whole. But any and all of these species would almost certainly still change, given enough time.

I wonder if some models, barring extinction, may stay "static" for billions of years. even if true, this doesn't upend evolution in any way.

I’m hoping some fair minded people would chime in. If for 400 years we didn’t allow American blacks to learn while whites were learning science math and English and even though slowly, our white brains have been evolving differently for over 500 years. That may seem like a drop in the bucket but look at how much smarter a border collie is and we only created that breed in the 1800s.

whats this WE shit?? it was democrats that didnt want blacks to learn anything not the whole of the white people,,

I guess spreading your guilt makes you feel better,,

 

[sealybobo]

They do not have to change, but they will.

Yes. Given enough time, they would change by genetic drift alone. It's inevitable. We couldn't stop it worldwide if we tried. Even the most "static" species in the fossil record underwent small changes. The advantage all of the static species seem to share is that there was a LOT of individuals at any given time all admixing on the whole. So even the random processes at work had diminished effect over the whole. But any and all of these species would almost certainly still change, given enough time.

I wonder if some models, barring extinction, may stay "static" for billions of years. even if true, this doesn't upend evolution in any way.

I’m hoping some fair minded people would chime in. If for 400 years we didn’t allow American blacks to learn while whites were learning science math and English and even though slowly, our white brains have been evolving differently for over 500 years. That may seem like a drop in the bucket but look at how much smarter a border collie is and we only created that breed in the 1800s.

whats this WE shit?? it was democrats that didnt want blacks to learn anything not the whole of the white people,,

I guess spreading your guilt makes you feel better,,

Us whites is who I mean by we. Now answer my questions or can’t you?

 

[sealybobo]

They do not have to change, but they will.

Yes. Given enough time, they would change by genetic drift alone. It's inevitable. We couldn't stop it worldwide if we tried. Even the most "static" species in the fossil record underwent small changes. The advantage all of the static species seem to share is that there was a LOT of individuals at any given time all admixing on the whole. So even the random processes at work had diminished effect over the whole. But any and all of these species would almost certainly still change, given enough time.

I wonder if some models, barring extinction, may stay "static" for billions of years. even if true, this doesn't upend evolution in any way.

I’m hoping some fair minded people would chime in. If for 400 years we didn’t allow American blacks to learn while whites were learning science math and English and even though slowly, our white brains have been evolving differently for over 500 years. That may seem like a drop in the bucket but look at how much smarter a border collie is and we only created that breed in the 1800s.

whats this WE shit?? it was democrats that didnt want blacks to learn anything not the whole of the white people,,

I guess spreading your guilt makes you feel better,,

Yes in the north we let blacks be free and learn. Red states not so much. And today red state republicans are passing laws making it harder for blacks to vote. Jim Crow 2.0

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

They do not have to change, but they will.

Yes. Given enough time, they would change by genetic drift alone. It's inevitable. We couldn't stop it worldwide if we tried. Even the most "static" species in the fossil record underwent small changes. The advantage all of the static species seem to share is that there was a LOT of individuals at any given time all admixing on the whole. So even the random processes at work had diminished effect over the whole. But any and all of these species would almost certainly still change, given enough time.

I wonder if some models, barring extinction, may stay "static" for billions of years. even if true, this doesn't upend evolution in any way.

I’m hoping some fair minded people would chime in. If for 400 years we didn’t allow American blacks to learn while whites were learning science math and English and even though slowly, our white brains have been evolving differently for over 500 years. That may seem like a drop in the bucket but look at how much smarter a border collie is and we only created that breed in the 1800s.

By what mechanism do you propose this? What Lamarckian nonsense?

 

[sealybobo]

They do not have to change, but they will.

Yes. Given enough time, they would change by genetic drift alone. It's inevitable. We couldn't stop it worldwide if we tried. Even the most "static" species in the fossil record underwent small changes. The advantage all of the static species seem to share is that there was a LOT of individuals at any given time all admixing on the whole. So even the random processes at work had diminished effect over the whole. But any and all of these species would almost certainly still change, given enough time.

I wonder if some models, barring extinction, may stay "static" for billions of years. even if true, this doesn't upend evolution in any way.

I’m hoping some fair minded people would chime in. If for 400 years we didn’t allow American blacks to learn while whites were learning science math and English and even though slowly, our white brains have been evolving differently for over 500 years. That may seem like a drop in the bucket but look at how much smarter a border collie is and we only created that breed in the 1800s.

whats this WE shit?? it was democrats that didnt want blacks to learn anything not the whole of the white people,,

I guess spreading your guilt makes you feel better,,

Have you ever attended an all black Detroit public school? I have. Me, my brother and Kenneth were the only whites. Not exactly equal with metro detroit white suburb schools.

 

[progressive hunter]

They do not have to change, but they will.

Yes. Given enough time, they would change by genetic drift alone. It's inevitable. We couldn't stop it worldwide if we tried. Even the most "static" species in the fossil record underwent small changes. The advantage all of the static species seem to share is that there was a LOT of individuals at any given time all admixing on the whole. So even the random processes at work had diminished effect over the whole. But any and all of these species would almost certainly still change, given enough time.

I wonder if some models, barring extinction, may stay "static" for billions of years. even if true, this doesn't upend evolution in any way.

I’m hoping some fair minded people would chime in. If for 400 years we didn’t allow American blacks to learn while whites were learning science math and English and even though slowly, our white brains have been evolving differently for over 500 years. That may seem like a drop in the bucket but look at how much smarter a border collie is and we only created that breed in the 1800s.

whats this WE shit?? it was democrats that didnt want blacks to learn anything not the whole of the white people,,

I guess spreading your guilt makes you feel better,,

Us whites is who I mean by we. Now answer my questions or can’t you?

US WHITES didnt do it,, some whites did it and they later formed the democrat party,,

keep your guilt to yourself,,,

as for your question,, its stupid because the brain doesnt evolve it learns over time,, and if the dems didnt keep some blacks from ;learning they wouldnt be as dumb as some are,,

 

[sealybobo]

I

They do not have to change, but they will.

Yes. Given enough time, they would change by genetic drift alone. It's inevitable. We couldn't stop it worldwide if we tried. Even the most "static" species in the fossil record underwent small changes. The advantage all of the static species seem to share is that there was a LOT of individuals at any given time all admixing on the whole. So even the random processes at work had diminished effect over the whole. But any and all of these species would almost certainly still change, given enough time.

I wonder if some models, barring extinction, may stay "static" for billions of years. even if true, this doesn't upend evolution in any way.

I’m hoping some fair minded people would chime in. If for 400 years we didn’t allow American blacks to learn while whites were learning science math and English and even though slowly, our white brains have been evolving differently for over 500 years. That may seem like a drop in the bucket but look at how much smarter a border collie is and we only created that breed in the 1800s.

By what mechanism do you propose this? What Lamarckian nonsense?

I’m asking. If we could make a border collie the smartest dog in a couple hundred years, smarter than other breeds of dogs, could we have held blacks back by not allowing them to learn for 400 years?

We are all animals.

 

[progressive hunter]

They do not have to change, but they will.

Yes. Given enough time, they would change by genetic drift alone. It's inevitable. We couldn't stop it worldwide if we tried. Even the most "static" species in the fossil record underwent small changes. The advantage all of the static species seem to share is that there was a LOT of individuals at any given time all admixing on the whole. So even the random processes at work had diminished effect over the whole. But any and all of these species would almost certainly still change, given enough time.

I wonder if some models, barring extinction, may stay "static" for billions of years. even if true, this doesn't upend evolution in any way.

I’m hoping some fair minded people would chime in. If for 400 years we didn’t allow American blacks to learn while whites were learning science math and English and even though slowly, our white brains have been evolving differently for over 500 years. That may seem like a drop in the bucket but look at how much smarter a border collie is and we only created that breed in the 1800s.

whats this WE shit?? it was democrats that didnt want blacks to learn anything not the whole of the white people,,

I guess spreading your guilt makes you feel better,,

Have you ever attended an all black Detroit public school? I have. Me, my brother and Kenneth were the only whites. Not exactly equal with metro detroit white suburb schools.

I attended an all black kansas city school and it was no different than the mostly white school I attended,,