Are The Founding Fathers Still Dear to the Right?

[EvilCat Breath]

It's not as if the planet hangs on every word you utter.

You belong to a party of fascist dictators who are paranoid about destroying the country to have complete control.
Yet you talk about Biden hating America.
You're a compete control freak. You hate with bile and venom and a nasty POS with it.

What do you think think of that?

I hate with bile, spit venom and piss ground glass. Are you now or have you ever been a Democrat should be the last question posed on the gallows.

 

[BertramN]

I have often found those who claim to love the Constitution have an amazing lack of knowledge about it. Some have clearly never even read it.

I also hear adoration of the "Founding Fathers" and are spoken of as if they had a monolithic belief system, which they most assuredly did not.

For instance, Hamilton disagreed strongly with Jefferson and Madison on the amount of power the central government should have. Jefferson and Madison believed in a decentralized agrarian economy while Hamilton believed in a strong central government with a central bank and the assumption of all the states' debts from the Revolutionary War.

So I am wondering if the Right still worships Thomas Jefferson, for example. He used to be often cited by the Right, but I hardly ever hear his name mentioned any more.

My personal favorite Founding Father was James Madison. His clarity of thinking in the letters he wrote for the Federalist Papers demonstrates a clarity of thinking which reminds me of Paul in the New Testament.


So what are your thoughts on Thomas Jefferson (author of the Declaration of Independence), Thomas Paine (author of Common Sense), James Madison (father of the Constitution), et. al.?

Please try to avoid speaking of them as a group and discuss your thoughts on specific men.

Thank you.

The true intentions of the Founding Fathers, regardless of their varying degrees of belief in states' rights opposed to federal power, has been irrelevant to white Christian conservatives for decades.

Those decades of endless reinterpretations by white Christian conservatives of the rights and protections provided by the Constitution always favor conservatives over all others, but have no basis in reality.

The January 6th insurrection and the ongoing justification by the 74 million trump Nazis are the ultimate example of these reinterpretations and the fanaticism that has been cultivated by the GOP in their poorly educated, white voter base.



.

 

[buckeye45_73]

I have often found those who claim to love the Constitution have an amazing lack of knowledge about it. Some have clearly never even read it.

I also hear adoration of the "Founding Fathers" and are spoken of as if they had a monolithic belief system, which they most assuredly did not.

For instance, Hamilton disagreed strongly with Jefferson and Madison on the amount of power the central government should have. Jefferson and Madison believed in a decentralized agrarian economy while Hamilton believed in a strong central government with a central bank and the assumption of all the states' debts from the Revolutionary War.

So I am wondering if the Right still worships Thomas Jefferson, for example. He used to be often cited by the Right, but I hardly ever hear his name mentioned any more.

My personal favorite Founding Father was James Madison. His clarity of thinking in the letters he wrote for the Federalist Papers demonstrates a clarity of thinking which reminds me of Paul in the New Testament.


So what are your thoughts on Thomas Jefferson (author of the Declaration of Independence), Thomas Paine (author of Common Sense), James Madison (father of the Constitution), et. al.?

Please try to avoid speaking of them as a group and discuss your thoughts on specific men.

Thank you.

Yeah my favorite was Jefferson. I thank him for fighting for the bill of rights.

I am not a federalist, so I don't agree with Central banking and was glad Jackson killed it. I do think Hamilton was great with monetary policy, establishing the mint and currency as well as assuming the states debt

Yeah I'm disappointed the Republicans created the fed in the 1910s.....not a good moment.

 

[DudleySmith]

I forgot to add a link for reference. There are many lists of who the Founding Fathers were, and they differ.

So let's use this one: Founding Fathers

There were a couple hundred of them; those at the Constitutional Convention should be included as well. Between them they all had something or other that both the left wingers and right wingers would rather not be known or taught in schools, since that would make hash out of ideological rubbish both lunatic fringes spout. Their 'Genius' was in how they handled their disagreements and resolved them, mostly via embracing the rights of individual states to decide their own issues and restricting the Federal government's allowed functions.

 

[DudleySmith]

as well as assuming the states debt

that was merely a financial swindle that lined the pockets of his cronies. I generally agree with the rest of your post. His cronies had spent a few months previously buying up states' bonds for pennies on the dollar, as well as script used to pay Continental Army debts and payroll, and then they voted for the debt assumption at face values and payable in gold. Many of the state bonds were bought for 10 cents on the dollar. It was a massive screwing over of the soldiers who fought in the war on top of that. It was one of the main reasons Jefferson wanted the Federal capital out of New York City and near Virginia, his home state, so he cut a deal with Hamilton and the Federalists.

 

[buckeye45_73]

that was merely a financial swindle that lined the pockets of his cronies. I generally agree with the rest of your post. His cronies had spent a few months previously buying up states' bonds for pennies on the dollar, as well as script used to pay Continental Army debts and payroll, and then they voted for the debt assumption at face values and payable in gold. Many of the state bonds were bought for 10 cents on the dollar. It was a massive screwing over of the soldiers who fought in the war on top of that. It was one of the main reasons Jefferson wanted the Federal capital out of New York City and near Virginia, his home state, so he cut a deal with Hamilton and the Federalists.

Indont really care. the reason I agree is it United the country, the debt was national and it prevented the states from squabbling over it. I think it prevented alot of issues that could have wrecked the new republic.

 

[DudleySmith]

Indont really care. the reason I agree is it United the country, the debt was national and it prevented the states from squabbling over it. I think it prevented alot of issues that could have wrecked the new republic.

Most right wingers don't care, true, since they like fraud and people getting something for nothing and massive public debts same as Democrats do, they just argue over who benefits from the frauds.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Most right wingers don't care, true, since they like fraud and people getting something for nothing and massive public debts same as Democrats do, they just argue over who benefits from the frauds.

Dude it was 250 years ago.....what do you want me to do, tear up a $10 bill?
I love how you look at everything from today and cast judgement.....you are a hero.....maybe get a special prosecutor to investigate Hamilton debt collusion?
I would end discretionary spending and cut the military budget to branch it, what would you do?

 

[DudleySmith]

Dude it was 250 years ago.....what do you want me to do, tear up a $10 bill?
I love how you look at everything from today and cast judgement.....you are a hero.....maybe get a special prosecutor to investigate Hamilton debt collusion?
I would end discretionary spending and cut the military budget to branch it, what would you do?

I love how you get all triggered by historical facts that don't fit your right wing narrative, same as the commies do.

 

[buckeye45_73]

I love how you get all triggered by historical facts that don't fit your right wing narrative, same as the commies do.

I dint get triggered.....what facts....I do see any evidence. link?
My question is why are you so triggered by what Hamilton did 250 years ago? I mean you are really into this......If you hate him so much just bow to a picture of Aaron Burr.


And yiu are now playing my favorite game......guess my political affiation........ooooh ooooh I say you are an arrogant jackals that just learned something in school and now you know it all.......but you act like you're an independant......hmmmmmm.......I'm guessing Gren Party?

 

[DudleySmith]

I dint get triggered.....what facts....I do see any evidence. link?
My question is why are you so triggered by what Hamilton did 250 years ago? I mean you are really into this......If you hate him so much just bow to a picture of Aaron Burr.


And yiu are now playing my favorite game......guess my political affiation........ooooh ooooh I say you are an arrogant jackals that just learned something in school and now you know it all.......but you act like you're an independant......hmmmmmm.......I'm guessing Gren Party?

LOl you're the moron who sniveled, not me, dufus. Too bad for you the 'Founders' were just politicians, like pols from any other era, and you can't get over it. the historical record on the debt assumption and other scandals is well known to anyone who has actually read the history, as opposed to babbling cherry picked nonsense.

I'm not 'guessing' anything, it's clear you're an uneducated moron who relies on ideological rubbish, being too lazy to read, and then you hav to babble some stupid crap about 'being green' or something about anybody who knows more than your dumb ass, same as commies have to pretend anybody who points out their rubbish has to be a Republcian or something. You're all tards and like two peas in a pod.

 

[buckeye45_73]

LOl you're the moron who sniveled, not me, dufus. Too bad for you the 'Founders' were just politicians, like pols from any other era, and you can't get over it. the historical record on the debt assumption and other scandals is well known to anyone who has actually read the history, as opposed to babbling cherry picked nonsense.

I'm not 'guessing' anything, it's clear you're an uneducated moron who relies on ideological rubbish, being too lazy to read, and then you hav to babble some stupid crap about 'being green' or something about anybody who knows more than your dumb ass, same as commies have to pretend anybody who points out their rubbish has to be a Republcian or something. You're all tards and like two peas in a pod.

Ok so you're a fraud....you got me....you got me to defend Alex Hamilton you clever fox. I read fine, too bad you're trying to prove to yourself you're clever rather than.making a.point..younmust.have low self-esteem...I still have no evidence of Hamiltons cronyism ...

 

[Claudette]

g5000
I admire them all cause those guys were smart and way ahead of their time. Jefferson and Monroe stand out to me.

 

[Claudette]

Lesh
You're the only dumbass. You have no respect for the men who founded this country or the document that they wrote.

You're a disgusting whiny little shit.

 

[Lesh]

g5000
I admire them all cause those guys were smart and way ahead of their time. Jefferson and Monroe stand out to me.

Don't even pretend you know anything about them beyond some of their names

 

[Claudette]

Lesh
I'd bet I know more about them than YOU eve will. You're disgusting.

 

[g5000]

They meant for us to possess and carry our own weapons of war.

Who is alleged to have written what is somewhat beside the point. Many of the founding documents and writings are anonymous or pseudonymous, and it is best to discuss the ideas contained in those writings rather than engaging in ad hominem attacks.

Since there are many, can you provide an example of an anonymous or pseudonymous writing for which we do not know the author?

Thanks.

 

[Natural Citizen]

The federalist papers are interesting, but I've never been sure of how much they are really worth.

The Federalist is widely regarded as the blueprint for the constitution.

 

[g5000]

I've read them all as well.

Ah. Very good. Since you have read all the same things I have, I am most curious to know what your impression of Thomas Paine is.

 

[g5000]

Yeah my favorite was Jefferson. I thank him for fighting for the bill of rights.

I am not a federalist, so I don't agree with Central banking and was glad Jackson killed it. I do think Hamilton was great with monetary policy, establishing the mint and currency as well as assuming the states debt

Yeah I'm disappointed the Republicans created the fed in the 1910s.....not a good moment.

Thank you for your reasoned response.

How do you feel about Jefferson's desire that the government break up concentrated wealth as much as possible, and to enact a progressive tax system with most Americans not being taxed?