Are The Founding Fathers Still Dear to the Right?

[Colin norris]

A lack of knowledge or an understanding that is different from your own. If you are going to claim some kind of expert knowledge, I'd ask for your credentials. Otherwise, what you are saying is you think those who don't see the Constitution the way you are stupid or have not read it. This is called an opinion in case you need help understanding.

Hamilton lost the debate on a powerful, centralized government until the progressives manage to get a foothold in the halls of government early last century. We have been moving steadily toward an authoritarian government ever since.

As of right now, we are very close to a Marxist government.

What a load of shit. The closest this country has ever been to Marxism is when trump attacked the capitol.

Grow up you.paranoid brain dead fool.

 

[gipper]

The Patriot Act bent the Bill of Rights over and raped it up the ass.

It certainly did. W pushed it because he’s an elitist asdhole. Then Obama hardened it because he’s exactly like W.

 

[bendog]

I think you would be very surprised at Jefferson's thoughts about that.

ummm ... well .... I think personally Jefferson thought slavery was morally corrupt, but like Lincoln until very late in his presidency, he didn't see blacks are equal to whites or see how the races could live in harmony..

But it's illustrative imo of how the beliefs of the founders on specific issues are not so relevant. For example, second amendment revisionists tend to quote papers 29 and 46 for pro individual right positions, when both are more about federal-state power, militias and the federal govt coercion. The right of an individual to own firearms, and the power of the state to regulate how they were used, doesn't seem to have been much of a concern.

 

[bendog]

Of course the everybody still fawns over the FF in as much as they can project their message as coming from the FF.

bingo. But they were interesting men. And different. Dickenson compared to Franklin .... and my God, Hamilton would be hounded out of govt for his wayward dick. LOL

 

[g5000]

Hamilton would have been a Founding Member of the Deep State

If such a thing as the D33P STAIT existed, he probably would.

He was a fascinating character. I have a friend who is a retired Air Force Colonel who travels the country role playing Alexander Hamilton. There's another guy who does Jefferson. They occasionally meet up together in public to engage in lively debate.

 

[blackhawk]

I don’t have a favorite Founding Father I don’t view them like one does their favorite sports team. I think they were great men who came up with an intelligent responsible way to govern. Neither the system or the men who came up with it is perfect no idea or person is but there is nothing out there I would want to have over what the Founding Fathers gave us.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

If such a thing as the D33P STAIT existed, he probably would.

He was a fascinating character. I have a friend who is a retired Air Force Colonel who travels the country role playing Alexander Hamilton. There's another guy who does Jefferson. They occasionally meet up together in public to engage in lively debate.

That would be fun to watch!

 

[g5000]

ummm ... well .... I think personally Jefferson thought slavery was morally corrupt, but like Lincoln until very late in his presidency, he didn't see blacks are equal to whites or see how the races could live in harmony..

But it's illustrative imo of how the beliefs of the founders on specific issues are not so relevant. For example, second amendment revisionists tend to quote papers 29 and 46 for pro individual right positions, when both are more about federal-state power, militias and the federal govt coercion. The right of an individual to own firearms, and the power of the state to regulate how they were used, doesn't seem to have been much of a concern.

Jefferson believed property ownership in the hands of a few violated the natural rights of Man. He wasn't against property ownership; far from it. But he believed the government could not do too much to subdivide (redistribute) wealth. He was very much opposed to the concentration of wealth in a few hands, and supported a progressive tax system where most of the people would be exempt from taxation and only the most wealthy would be taxed.

 

[Lastamender]

I have often found those who claim to love the Constitution have an amazing lack of knowledge about it. Some have clearly never even read it.

I also hear adoration of the "Founding Fathers" and are spoken of as if they had a monolithic belief system, which they most assuredly did not.

For instance, Hamilton disagreed strongly with Jefferson and Madison on the amount of power the central government should have. Jefferson and Madison believed in a decentralized agrarian economy while Hamilton believed in a strong central government with a central bank and the assumption of all the states' debts from the Revolutionary War.

So I am wondering if the Right still worships Thomas Jefferson, for example. He used to be often cited by the Right, but I hardly ever hear his name mentioned any more.

My personal favorite Founding Father was James Madison. His clarity of thinking in the letters he wrote for the Federalist Papers demonstrates a clarity of thinking which reminds me of Paul in the New Testament.


So what are your thoughts on Thomas Jefferson (author of the Declaration of Independence), Thomas Paine (author of Common Sense), James Madison (father of the Constitution), et. al.?

Please try to avoid speaking of them as a group and discuss your thoughts on specific men.

Thank you.

Thank you for letting us know how anti-Americans feel about it.

 

[g5000]

That would be fun to watch!

Jefferson-Hamilton Debate Reenactment

Dressed in period costume, scholars portraying Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton debated their views of democracy, talked about the founding of the nation, and answered questions about modern politics.

www.c-span.org

My friend is the guy playing Hamilton. His name is Hal Bidlack.

We actually had quite a falling out a few years ago over politics and over the direction he was taking a foundation I was a member of.

He's a Democrat. He ran for Congress, but failed.

Hamilton Lives! – Hal Bidlack, Ph.D. performs Alexander Hamilton

hamiltonlives.com

 

[Resnic]

I have often found those who claim to love the Constitution have an amazing lack of knowledge about it. Some have clearly never even read it.

I also hear adoration of the "Founding Fathers" and are spoken of as if they had a monolithic belief system, which they most assuredly did not.

For instance, Hamilton disagreed strongly with Jefferson and Madison on the amount of power the central government should have. Jefferson and Madison believed in a decentralized agrarian economy while Hamilton believed in a strong central government with a central bank and the assumption of all the states' debts from the Revolutionary War.

So I am wondering if the Right still worships Thomas Jefferson, for example. He used to be often cited by the Right, but I hardly ever hear his name mentioned any more.

My personal favorite Founding Father was James Madison. His clarity of thinking in the letters he wrote for the Federalist Papers demonstrates a clarity of thinking which reminds me of Paul in the New Testament.


So what are your thoughts on Thomas Jefferson (author of the Declaration of Independence), Thomas Paine (author of Common Sense), James Madison (father of the Constitution), et. al.?

Please try to avoid speaking of them as a group and discuss your thoughts on specific men.

Thank you.

Up until just a few years ago when some dope head career criminal died while resisting arrest and fighting the cops the founding fathers were near and dear to almost all Americans heart. Not just the right.

The suddenly a bunch of sheltered and pampered idiot kids decided the entire country and it's founding fathers were racist, then the blacks joined in because they love a good excuse for their own self made problems, and now we have people who hate america and it's founders when like 2 years ago it was the exact opposite.

 

[g5000]

Thank you for letting us know how anti-Americans feel about it.

About what?

 

[g5000]

Up until just a few years ago when some dope head career criminal died while resisting arrest and fighting the cops the founding fathers were near and dear to almost all Americans heart. Not just the right.

The suddenly a bunch of sheltered and pampered idiot kids decided the entire country and it's founding fathers were racist, then the blacks joined in because they love a good excuse for their own self made problems, and now we have people who hate america and it's founders when like 2 years ago it was the exact opposite.

It always saddens me when people say the Constitution is too old and should be thrown out.

Staggering ignorance.

Saying the Constitution is illegitimate because some founders had slaves is like saying Martin Luther King's message is illegitimate because he whored around.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

What a load of shit. The closest this country has ever been to Marxism is when trump attacked the capitol.

Grow up you.paranoid brain dead fool.

There were more than 60,000 people protesting the stolen election. Had there been any serious intent to attack the capitol, the capitol would be toothpicks today. The insurrection was an FBI construct that caught up a few innocent people. One was murdered.

 

[Turtlesoup]

I have often found those who claim to love the Constitution have an amazing lack of knowledge about it. Some have clearly never even read it.

I also hear adoration of the "Founding Fathers" and are spoken of as if they had a monolithic belief system, which they most assuredly did not.

For instance, Hamilton disagreed strongly with Jefferson and Madison on the amount of power the central government should have. Jefferson and Madison believed in a decentralized agrarian economy while Hamilton believed in a strong central government with a central bank and the assumption of all the states' debts from the Revolutionary War.

So I am wondering if the Right still worships Thomas Jefferson, for example. He used to be often cited by the Right, but I hardly ever hear his name mentioned any more.

My personal favorite Founding Father was James Madison. His clarity of thinking in the letters he wrote for the Federalist Papers demonstrates a clarity of thinking which reminds me of Paul in the New Testament.


So what are your thoughts on Thomas Jefferson (author of the Declaration of Independence), Thomas Paine (author of Common Sense), James Madison (father of the Constitution), et. al.?

Please try to avoid speaking of them as a group and discuss your thoughts on specific men.

Thank you.

Thomas Jefferson was a true genius and visionary---------how he wanted the government is how it should be.

 

[g5000]

You know what I have always found interesting? The painting Donald Trump had placed in the Oval Office was of Andrew Jackson, the founder of the Democratic Party!

I know, Jackson wasn't a Founding Father, but I found that choice curious.

 

[g5000]

There were more than 60,000 people protesting the stolen election. Had there been any serious intent to attack the capitol, the capitol would be toothpicks today. The insurrection was an FBI construct that caught up a few innocent people. One was murdered.

If the insurrection had turned truly violent, the Capitol would be littered with hundreds of dead bodies in red ballcaps.

 

[bendog]

Jefferson believed property ownership in the hands of a few violated the natural rights of Man. He wasn't against property ownership; far from it. But he believed the government could not do too much to subdivide (redistribute) wealth. He was very much opposed to the concentration of wealth in a few hands, and supported a progressive tax system where most of the people would be exempt from taxation and only the most wealthy would be taxed.

interesting. He obviously believed all white men had the right to go out and acquire property on the frontier. Madison suggested we "civilize" native americans even though he may not have really thought it possible. And yeah he was against a concentration of wealth. I doubt he'd have supported the notion that the East India Co had First Amend rights. But I question whether any of that has any application to specific issues today. Not that you do so, but others fashion support for their political opinions "X founder would never agree with ....."

 

[bendog]

You know what I have always found interesting? The painting Donald Trump had placed in the Oval Office was of Andrew Jackson, the founder of the Democratic Party!

I know, Jackson wasn't a Founding Father, but I found that choice curious.

Well, as we discussed, Trump's followers are neither conservative nor republican ... they are populists who do not believe in the rule of law unless the executive chooses to enforce it.

 

[WTH_Progs?]

I have often found those who claim to love the Constitution have an amazing lack of knowledge about it. Some have clearly never even read it.

I also hear adoration of the "Founding Fathers" and are spoken of as if they had a monolithic belief system, which they most assuredly did not.

For instance, Hamilton disagreed strongly with Jefferson and Madison on the amount of power the central government should have. Jefferson and Madison believed in a decentralized agrarian economy while Hamilton believed in a strong central government with a central bank and the assumption of all the states' debts from the Revolutionary War.

So I am wondering if the Right still worships Thomas Jefferson, for example. He used to be often cited by the Right, but I hardly ever hear his name mentioned any more.

My personal favorite Founding Father was James Madison. His clarity of thinking in the letters he wrote for the Federalist Papers demonstrates a clarity of thinking which reminds me of Paul in the New Testament.


So what are your thoughts on Thomas Jefferson (author of the Declaration of Independence), Thomas Paine (author of Common Sense), James Madison (father of the Constitution), et. al.?

Please try to avoid speaking of them as a group and discuss your thoughts on specific men.

Thank you.

have often found those who claim to love the Constitution have an amazing lack of knowledge about it. Some have clearly never even read it. NEAT

I also hear adoration of the "Founding Fathers" and are spoken of as if they had a monolithic belief system, which they most assuredly did not. Here we go............

For instance, Hamilton disagreed strongly with Jefferson and Madison on the amount of power the central government should have. Jefferson and Madison believed in a decentralized agrarian economy while Hamilton believed in a strong central government with a central bank and the assumption of all the states' debts from the Revolutionary War. Cool

So I am wondering if the Right still worships Thomas Jefferson, for example. He used to be often cited by the Right, but I hardly ever hear his name mentioned any more. I just checked my pants and found I do not worship TJ

My personal favorite Founding Father was James Madison. His clarity of thinking in the letters he wrote for the Federalist Papers demonstrates a clarity of thinking which reminds me of Paul in the New Testament. Nice. I wonder if he repeats descriptors within the same sentence as well.


So what are your thoughts on Thomas Jefferson (author of the Declaration of Independence), Thomas Paine (author of Common Sense), James Madison (father of the Constitution), et. al.? Smarter than us, practical and great intentions. World's best founding fathers.

Please try to avoid speaking of them as a group and discuss your thoughts on specific men. I don't want to..