Zone1 Are all people equally valuable?

[Woodznutz]

And in God's eyes, all human lives have equal value.

What would be the objective evidence of this?

 

[buttercup]

What would be the objective evidence of this?

What would you accept as objective evidence? Scripture? Because if you want, I can round up numerous scriptures on this topic. But I was going to sign off here soon, 'cause I have some real life stuff I haven't done yet today, but if you want scriptural backing I can get back to this thread later.

 

[Anathema]

No. Not even close. Only INNOCENT life has value; which means nobody over age 4 has any value.

 

[Foxfyre]

Would you say that all human beings are equally valuable? I'm not talking about this from the perspective of society. When we look at this world and all the horrible things that humans have done to one another throughout history, I think it's safe to say that most people don't believe that all lives are equally valuable. But of course people aren't the source of objective truth. So my question is, what do you believe the actual truth is, in regard to human value? Would you say that all lives are inherently equal in value?

If your answer is yes, please explain why you believe that. If your answer is no, please explain why you believe that, and what things determine human value, in your view.

I'll start. I believe that all lives are equally valuable. Why, because as a Christian I believe that God is the source of actual truth, and in God's eyes we all have equal value. We were all created by God, we were all created in the image of God, and from a Christian perspective, Jesus (who was God in the flesh) died not just for some people, but for ALL people, whoever receives that gift of salvation, by faith.

This reminds me of a really good analogy about life being like a play... It's all temporary, and at the end of the day, things like money, social status, or anything else that society values ultimately means nothing. Why, because when the play is over, all the temporary things are gone and there is no difference between a Prince and a Pauper, in God's eyes.

I'll see if I can find that clip I'm thinking of, and if I do, I'll post it. But for now, what is your answer to this question?

In order to answer, the term 'valuable' has to be defined.

Scenario in various disaster/end of the world movies is that a limited number of people must be chosen to escape and live. In such a case are all people equally valuable to colonize and advance a new world? Obviously no. Old people have little time left to contribute. The younger/those of child bearing age who are chosen should represent perhaps a variety of races and bring broad diversity of expertise--medical, scientists, farmers/ranchers, economists, historians, educators, architects, engineers, builders, physicists, those expert in identifying, extracting, refining, using various elements and yes the spiritual etc etc etc.

There is the scenario of people drowning and if you can only save one who do you save as the most valuable to humankind? The philanthropist/benefactor to humankind or the serial killer? The old person whose days are numbered or the child who has his/her whole life ahead?

I agree that in the eyes of God all souls are equal. But even God chose this person or that person over others who seemed more logical to choose to accomplish God's agenda. Did God see potential/value in such people more than he saw such potential/value in others?

The OP is a thought provoking question.

But I think there are no easy answers.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

In God's eyes most are equally valuable in the eternal sense. But not so much in the mortal sense. If all were equally valuable in the flesh all would be called to repentance in their physical lifetime to spare them from the miseries of sin. Fortunately, all (or most) will be called to repentance in the resurrection/millennial/ judgment period. For now, only the church is being called.

MANY are called, but few are chosen. The Church are the Chosen. Many hear the Gospel, it's what they do with that knowledge after that which determines if they become one of the chosen. It is a "marriage" agreement.

 

[BreezeWood]

Jesus (who was God in the flesh) died not just for some people, but for ALL people, whoever receives that gift of salvation, by faith.

no chance for that, jesus was paradisian ... and did not give their life for humanity rather for the heavenly garden of creation.

Then they said, “Let us make life in our image, in our likeness, the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky the livestock and all the wild animals, and all the creatures that move along the ground.”

they taught all life has equal value and the same ability for admission to the everlasting.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I agree that a person's bad choices are on them.... but I don't agree that bad choices (which may just be a temporary thing) determine intrinsic human value. That's what the question was, about intrinsic human value.

I gave a lot of my life to the military, so i could defend this country from Socialism. Today, there are too many stupid people who are willingly going to vote against their own interests just to "Bite their noses off just to spite their faces", because of their hatred towards people who want to save this country. Should those that love to destroy, be of value to the rest of us?

 

[expat_panama]

I guess I'm having a hard time putting this into words. I'm not asking about things like value in the marketplace, or value under our legal system... As I said in the original post, I'm not talking about this from the perspective of society, but what is the actual, objective truth? As a Christian I believe that God is the source of objective truth, so ultimately the only thing that really matters is what is true in God's eyes. And in God's eyes, all human lives have equal value.

You don't have to call yourself a Christian to accept that murder, theft, lying about people, etc. is all unacceptable and must be punished. Virtually every jurisdiction in the world subscribes to humanity's common understanding of right and wrong. OK so there are trivial differences, when I was visiting Haifa Israel I noted that Muslims took Friday off, stores owned by Jews were closed on Saturday, and the Christians had Sunday as a holiday.

I know that many here aren't Christians, and many aren't believers at all, so of course those with a different worldview are going to answer this question in a different way. But again, truth is not determined by any of our opinions or beliefs... it just is what it is. Some people might not believe objective truth exists at all, but I think that is illogical.

There are those who may say that they don't believe in an objective truth, but they all sure act like there is objective truth whenever a scientific analysis is made w/ observations, testing and proof. That when truth becomes real objective for all to see independently. Same goes for telling the truth under oath in a court of law.

 

[Woodznutz]

What would you accept as objective evidence? Scripture? Because if you want, I can round up numerous scriptures on this topic. But I was going to sign off here soon, 'cause I have some real life stuff I haven't done yet today, but if you want scriptural backing I can get back to this thread later.

God has chosen those who are special to him, above all others.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

God has chosen those who are special to him, above all others.

Why do you think "the chosen" are special in God's eyes? BTW, the "chosen" are only for THIS Age of Man. God offers all Mankind the same destiny -- each in their own time. All created humans have the same worth in His eyes.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

OK so there are trivial differences, when I was visiting Haifa Israel I noted that Muslims took Friday off, stores owned by Jews were closed on Saturday, and the Christians had Sunday as a holiday

Except God COMMANDED the SEVENTH DAY. The Jews and SOME Christians have this right. If God COMMANDS something, it ISNT "TRIVIAL."

 

[Woodznutz]

Why do you think "the chosen" are special in God's eyes? BTW, the "chosen" are only for THIS Age of Man. God offers all Mankind the same destiny -- each in their own time. All created humans have the same worth in His eyes.

Actually, the chosen in this age will rule others in the world to come.

 

[Meriweather]

Would you say that all human beings are equally valuable?

I look at it from the standpoint that God loves us all equally. When one experiences the love of God, 'value' kind of takes a lesser place. For example, can we really differentiate between the value of a General and the cook who feeds his army? Is a teacher more valuable than a priest/minister? A gardener more valuable than a plumber?

There was once a special ed child who had an experience of God that God loved him so much, he would be very close to Him in the hereafter. When his mother heard of the experience, she said, "I love you, will you be next to me, too?" His reply, "But God really loves me."

I work with special ed kids fairly often. Each time I do, I'm filled with awe. They have a tough row to hoe, yet their love is pure, and I haven't a doubt they are among those God really loves.

I remember a gardener once told me, "A weed is simply a plant out of place." Sometimes when the people around us don't seem all they could/might be, maybe the same is true for them. Sometimes aren't we all just a person out of place?

 

[BreezeWood]

Except God COMMANDED the SEVENTH DAY. The Jews and SOME Christians have this right. If God COMMANDS something, it ISNT "TRIVIAL."

they claimed their creation to be the sabbath to keep holy for their heavenly effort.

 

[Woodznutz]

Except God COMMANDED the SEVENTH DAY. The Jews and SOME Christians have this right. If God COMMANDS something, it ISNT "TRIVIAL."

God commands that we "remember" the Sabbath day and "keep it holy", not make it holy. God has already done that.
Under Moses certain rituals were added to it, notably a 'commanded assembly' of all Israel. There is no such command by Jesus to the New Testament church, leaving us to rest on the Sabbath day while acknowledging that it is 'holy time' as was its original purpose; God "rested" on the seventh day. So, the memorial we make of the Sabbath is to rest, not to attend a commanded assembly. We can do that on Sunday when we're well rested and attentive from a Sabbath days' rest.

 

[onefour1]

It is the belief in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that we are the very offspring of God the Father. Jesus Christ is our eldest brother and we are all the literal children of God. The Father is the father of our spirits. We all are literally spiritual brothers and sisters. We are family! From a mortal perspective, when a son or daughter go astray, do their parents hate or despise them? No! They love them and hope and pray that they will change and become a better person. God our eternal heavenly Father has a greater love than we all can comprehend. Our elder brother Jesus Christ also has this kind of love. Through their own personal sacrifice they have made it possible for each one of us to repent of our evil ways and find forgiveness in their loving arms. We should all care for each other as brothers and sisters and also give God the respect he deserves as a loving and kind Heavenly Father. Let us remember the two greatest commandments:

Matthew 22:36-40
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Acts 17:28-29
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.

Hebrews 12:9
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Psalms 82:6
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Doctrine and Covenants 18:10-13
10 Remember the worth of souls is great in the sight of God;
11 For, behold, the Lord your Redeemer suffered death in the flesh; wherefore he suffered the pain of all men, that all men might repent and come unto him.
12 And he hath risen again from the dead, that he might bring all men unto him, on conditions of repentance.
13 And how great is his joy in the soul that repenteth!

Even when Lucifer and those who followed him fell from heaven, the heavens wept over his fall. This is how much God was effected by the loss of those fallen spirits.

Doctrine and Covenants 76:
25 And this we saw also, and bear record, that an angel of God who was in authority in the presence of God, who rebelled against the Only Begotten Son whom the Father loved and who was in the bosom of the Father, was thrust down from the presence of God and the Son,
26 And was called Perdition, for the heavens wept over him—he was Lucifer, a son of the morning.
27 And we beheld, and lo, he is fallen! is fallen, even a son of the morning!

1 John 4:7-8
7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

May we all come to this love for God and each other. We all have great worth is God's eyes and we should all have great worth in each others eyes.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Would you say that all human beings are equally valuable? I'm not talking about this from the perspective of society. When we look at this world and all the horrible things that humans have done to one another throughout history, I think it's safe to say that most people don't believe that all lives are equally valuable. But of course people aren't the source of objective truth. So my question is, what do you believe the actual truth is, in regard to human value? Would you say that all lives are inherently equal in value?

If your answer is yes, please explain why you believe that. If your answer is no, please explain why you believe that, and what things determine human value, in your view.

I'll start. I believe that all lives are equally valuable. Why, because as a Christian I believe that God is the source of actual truth, and in God's eyes we all have equal value. We were all created by God, we were all created in the image of God, and from a Christian perspective, Jesus (who was God in the flesh) died not just for some people, but for ALL people, whoever receives that gift of salvation, by faith.

This reminds me of a really good analogy about life being like a play... It's all temporary, and at the end of the day, things like money, social status, or anything else that society values ultimately means nothing. Why, because when the play is over, all the temporary things are gone and there is no difference between a Prince and a Pauper, in God's eyes.

I'll see if I can find that clip I'm thinking of, and if I do, I'll post it. But for now, what is your answer to this question?

What do you mean by "valuable"?

 

[buttercup]

In order to answer, the term 'valuable' has to be defined.

Scenario in various disaster/end of the world movies is that a limited number of people must be chosen to escape and live. In such a case are all people equally valuable to colonize and advance a new world? Obviously no. Old people have little time left to contribute. The younger/those of child bearing age who are chosen should represent perhaps a variety of races and bring broad diversity of expertise--medical, scientists, farmers/ranchers, economists, historians, educators, architects, engineers, builders, physicists, those expert in identifying, extracting, refining, using various elements and yes the spiritual etc etc etc.

There is the scenario of people drowning and if you can only save one who do you save as the most valuable to humankind? The philanthropist/benefactor to humankind or the serial killer? The old person whose days are numbered or the child who has his/her whole life ahead?

I agree that in the eyes of God all souls are equal. But even God chose this person or that person over others who seemed more logical to choose to accomplish God's agenda. Did God see potential/value in such people more than he saw such potential/value in others?

The OP is a thought provoking question.

But I think there are no easy answers.

Hmm... you're putting me on the spot here, lol. Well, I'm not defining it in the same way a dictionary would. If we were to go to a dictionary, the word 'valuable' usually has to do with monetary worth. But of course when we're talking about human value, it's a different matter. I don't know what the best definition would be, but some words that come to my mind are worth, or preciousness. But precious to who? This gets back to my earlier point about the source of objective truth. Even if a person (let's say a poor disabled orphan) is not considered valuable by their family or society, that person is still precious to God. So our value doesn't come from how valuable we are to others, but to God.

As for those scenarios you brought up...I think that first example has to do with their role / abilities being more important or useful than others, for that particular time. So that's talking about 'value' in the sense of usefulness. I would say they still have the same intrinsic value. In that last example, I think from our human perspective it would be a no-brainer... we'd save the philanthropist, for sure. But that's our perspective. I don't think it negates the biblical truth that all human lives are equally valuable to God. At least in the sense that God created all of us and was willing to give His life for ALL people, not just some. That reminds me of a quote by C.S Lewis. Here it is:

"He died not for men, but for each man. If each man had been the only man made, He would have done no less.”
― C.S. Lewis

 

[buttercup]

No. Not even close. Only INNOCENT life has value; which means nobody over age 4 has any value.

I completely disagree, but thanks for your opinion. It's interesting to hear what different people have to say...

 

[buttercup]

I gave a lot of my life to the military, so i could defend this country from Socialism. Today, there are too many stupid people who are willingly going to vote against their own interests just to "Bite their noses off just to spite their faces", because of their hatred towards people who want to save this country. Should those that love to destroy, be of value to the rest of us?

I get what you're saying, and I don't necessarily disagree. But you're talking about this from the standpoint of what is valuable to other humans. As I've said a few times on this thread, since we aren't the source of objective truth, what we believe may or may not be actually true.