Arctic Wetlands: The Doomsday Bomb?

[westwall]

Oddly enough, all of Earth's hottest inter-glacial periods, such as the Hadean, the late Neoproterozoic and the PETM (Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum) all occurred long ago before man and long before industry or any ability to blame climate change on man's industrial activity. Life came, it grew, it evolved and changed as the climate evolved and changed. Of course, man could not survive losing modern industrial activity without going back to an agrarian culture of the 18th century and giving up 2/3rds of its population. But the climate-fear-mongers never want to come to grips with that. Modern human civilization has developed over just the past 10,000 years or so. The period has generally been one of low temperatures and relative global climate stability. As always, the Earth moves on, indifferent to our needs but rather than adapt to meet the Earth, the modern liberal dreams of controlling/changing the Earth to meet HIM.

Maybe the problem isn't the climate but US. If Earth has a problem, maybe it is that it has 7.4 BILLION people on it now, and it is merely making a course correction to re-balance us as it does everything, back to maybe a more reasonable 3 billion. That should be about right. If that happens, it might be survival of the fittest, and my observation has always been that liberals and leftists are usually the WEAKEST.

Are you saying course correction by Earth, above 7.4M people? Well yeah, any rolling ball would spin out if you add to its mass. Further from the Sun, global warming will stop too.

You are aware that adding more people does not increase the mass of the earth... the mass already exists, it will simply change forms.

Only if those people are made from ashes to ashes by God. But what if they are not made by God?

Then they are carbon based and guess what, everything that go's in to making a person comes from some other part of the planet. Having children does not increase the weight of life on the planet. That is simply asinine.

 

[westwall]

It isn't a matter of STANCE, I don't take stances, I make observations. How do you think all of that methane got locked up and stored in all these locations in the first place? Everything runs in cycles and all one needs is to study the history of the planet to see that EVERYTHING runs in cycles. Just as the ocean bobs up and down and your weather oscillates above and below its mean temp., methane and other agents are all cyclically stored and released as required around a mean level the Earth chooses as its median level of balance, and nothing man has done or CAN DO will ever be remotely near its greatest or least antigen in controlling or changing the Earth's cycles. Enjoy the ride. We are not derailing the car, we are merely part of the trip.

Glad you don't work in my trade. You would be dead in a short time. You make assumptions based on nothing at all. This world reacts to the physical and chemical laws of nature. If something changes, then there is a reason. And, through the studies of scientists, we can find out those reasons.

Yeah . . . . what would I know of being a scientist or the physical and chemical laws of nature?!

Everything runs in cycles?

It's so tedious...if it all is natural, PROVE it's NATURAL changes.

The more relevant question should be for you to PROVE IT ISN'T NATURAL, Ace, since you are the one making the extraordinary claim saying we must drop everything or doom and gloom, NOT I. I don't need to prove anything.

Again, a dumb **** flaps his ignorant yap. We are currently in the down cycle of the Milankovic Cycles. The sun is putting out less TSI than it has previously. We should be cooling, instead, we are rapidly warming. The only thing that is forcing in that direction is the Anthropogenic increase in GHGs.

We ARE cooling dumbass. The only warming that your hero's can point to exists in their homologation computer models, not in the real world.

 

[anotherlife]

Oddly enough, all of Earth's hottest inter-glacial periods, such as the Hadean, the late Neoproterozoic and the PETM (Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum) all occurred long ago before man and long before industry or any ability to blame climate change on man's industrial activity. Life came, it grew, it evolved and changed as the climate evolved and changed. Of course, man could not survive losing modern industrial activity without going back to an agrarian culture of the 18th century and giving up 2/3rds of its population. But the climate-fear-mongers never want to come to grips with that. Modern human civilization has developed over just the past 10,000 years or so. The period has generally been one of low temperatures and relative global climate stability. As always, the Earth moves on, indifferent to our needs but rather than adapt to meet the Earth, the modern liberal dreams of controlling/changing the Earth to meet HIM.

Maybe the problem isn't the climate but US. If Earth has a problem, maybe it is that it has 7.4 BILLION people on it now, and it is merely making a course correction to re-balance us as it does everything, back to maybe a more reasonable 3 billion. That should be about right. If that happens, it might be survival of the fittest, and my observation has always been that liberals and leftists are usually the WEAKEST.

Are you saying course correction by Earth, above 7.4M people? Well yeah, any rolling ball would spin out if you add to its mass. Further from the Sun, global warming will stop too.

You are aware that adding more people does not increase the mass of the earth... the mass already exists, it will simply change forms.

Only if those people are made from ashes to ashes by God. But what if they are not made by God?

Then they are carbon based and guess what, everything that go's in to making a person comes from some other part of the planet. Having children does not increase the weight of life on the planet. That is simply asinine.

Are you saying that Satan and his children are made of materials found on Earth? I think the Bible contradicts that. Is the orbital energy of Earth increasing? If yes, then the Bible is right.

 

[toobfreak]

Oddly enough, all of Earth's hottest inter-glacial periods, such as the Hadean, the late Neoproterozoic and the PETM (Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum) all occurred long ago before man and long before industry or any ability to blame climate change on man's industrial activity. Life came, it grew, it evolved and changed as the climate evolved and changed. Of course, man could not survive losing modern industrial activity without going back to an agrarian culture of the 18th century and giving up 2/3rds of its population. But the climate-fear-mongers never want to come to grips with that. Modern human civilization has developed over just the past 10,000 years or so. The period has generally been one of low temperatures and relative global climate stability. As always, the Earth moves on, indifferent to our needs but rather than adapt to meet the Earth, the modern liberal dreams of controlling/changing the Earth to meet HIM.

Maybe the problem isn't the climate but US. If Earth has a problem, maybe it is that it has 7.4 BILLION people on it now, and it is merely making a course correction to re-balance us as it does everything, back to maybe a more reasonable 3 billion. That should be about right. If that happens, it might be survival of the fittest, and my observation has always been that liberals and leftists are usually the WEAKEST.

Good God, that is about the stupidest thing I have ever read. The Hadean interglacial? You dumb ass, that was when our planet was forming and under bombardment.

Hadean Eon | geochronology

Hadean Eon, informal division of Precambrian time occurring between about 4.5 billion and about 4.0 billion years ago. The Hadean Eon is characterized by Earth’s initial formation—from the accretion of dust and gases and the frequent collisions of larger planetesimals—and by the stabilization of its core and crust and the development of its atmosphere and oceans. Throughout part of the eon, impacts from extraterrestrial bodies released enormous amounts of heat that likely prevented much of the rock from solidifying at the surface. As such, the name of the interval is a reference to Hades, a Greek translation of the Hebrew word for hell.

Yep, nothing like a little bit of knowledge from Google to make Old Rocks an overnight expert on geologic time! Yes, you are quite right, I was referring to HOT periods in the past that occurred without man and his horrible industry and these occurred between the ice ages, but since the Hadeon was the first of four eons, an informal period-- -- there obviously wasn't an ice age before that and I could have been more clear about that had I known I had to write a thesis to make my simple point to the more ignominious of this forum such as yourself. But your cellphone browser mislead you, Rock, the Earth FORMED 4.5 billion years ago, it didn't START forming then, and began the early Hadeon. Still, water and the earliest life was already forming or formed half way through the Hadeon, and your junior encyclopedia you referenced is simply misleading you. Still, I meant to refer to the Hadeon as one of three key hottest periods of the Earth and the Hadeon-Archean (early Precambrian) indeed made up the interval leading up to Earth's first major cooling period. But then, none of this changes a thing about the thread other than to show further what a pompous ass you really are.-- -- --

"Again, a dumb **** flaps his ignorant yap. We are currently in the down cycle of the Milankovic Cycles. The sun is putting out less TSI than it has previously. We should be cooling, instead, we are rapidly warming. The only thing that is forcing in that direction is the Anthropogenic increase in GHGs."

Well put, Rockhead! Considering that you haven't a clue of what you speak. It just so happens that the Milankovic Cycles you refer to, which I myself discussed here months ago have nothing to do with the Sun and its solar output! They are the combination of the Earth's orbital shape, axis and precession leftover from its formation which combine in endless ways of very slow changes measured over tens and hundreds of thousands of years, NOT decades, to be the greatest influence on our climate, NOT the Sun, and certainly not your fantasies about man and his tiny impact from 100 years of industry. The shit-talking pseudo-climatologist jackass is busted again.

But thanks for showing once again that despite all of the techno-babble about cycles, solar impact upon the Earth, methane, CO2 and whatever else you spew, that, as you say, we ought to be cooling, we WILL be cooling, so that means that either you fail to account for the real reason for our mini-warming or we really aren't warming at all, and the Earth and its climate is simply more complex than the small mind of man and his few decades of climate study. A false warming. Better pray for all the warming we can get, while we can get it.

 

[Old Rocks]

Oddly enough, all of Earth's hottest inter-glacial periods, such as the Hadean, the late Neoproterozoic and the PETM (Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum) all occurred long ago before man and long before industry or any ability to blame climate change on man's industrial activity. Life came, it grew, it evolved and changed as the climate evolved and changed. Of course, man could not survive losing modern industrial activity without going back to an agrarian culture of the 18th century and giving up 2/3rds of its population. But the climate-fear-mongers never want to come to grips with that. Modern human civilization has developed over just the past 10,000 years or so. The period has generally been one of low temperatures and relative global climate stability. As always, the Earth moves on, indifferent to our needs but rather than adapt to meet the Earth, the modern liberal dreams of controlling/changing the Earth to meet HIM.

Maybe the problem isn't the climate but US. If Earth has a problem, maybe it is that it has 7.4 BILLION people on it now, and it is merely making a course correction to re-balance us as it does everything, back to maybe a more reasonable 3 billion. That should be about right. If that happens, it might be survival of the fittest, and my observation has always been that liberals and leftists are usually the WEAKEST.

Good God, that is about the stupidest thing I have ever read. The Hadean interglacial? You dumb ass, that was when our planet was forming and under bombardment.

Hadean Eon | geochronology

Hadean Eon, informal division of Precambrian time occurring between about 4.5 billion and about 4.0 billion years ago. The Hadean Eon is characterized by Earth’s initial formation—from the accretion of dust and gases and the frequent collisions of larger planetesimals—and by the stabilization of its core and crust and the development of its atmosphere and oceans. Throughout part of the eon, impacts from extraterrestrial bodies released enormous amounts of heat that likely prevented much of the rock from solidifying at the surface. As such, the name of the interval is a reference to Hades, a Greek translation of the Hebrew word for hell.

Yep, nothing like a little bit of knowledge from Google to make Old Rocks an overnight expert on geologic time! Yes, you are quite right, I was referring to HOT periods in the past that occurred without man and his horrible industry and these occurred between the ice ages, but since the Hadeon was the first of four eons, an informal period-- -- there obviously wasn't an ice age before that and I could have been more clear about that had I known I had to write a thesis to make my simple point to the more ignominious of this forum such as yourself. But your cellphone browser mislead you, Rock, the Earth FORMED 4.5 billion years ago, it didn't START forming then, and began the early Hadeon. Still, water and the earliest life was already forming or formed half way through the Hadeon, and your junior encyclopedia you referenced is simply misleading you. Still, I meant to refer to the Hadeon as one of three key hottest periods of the Earth and the Hadeon-Archean (early Precambrian) indeed made up the interval leading up to Earth's first major cooling period. But then, none of this changes a thing about the thread other than to show further what a pompous ass you really are.-- -- --

"Again, a dumb **** flaps his ignorant yap. We are currently in the down cycle of the Milankovic Cycles. The sun is putting out less TSI than it has previously. We should be cooling, instead, we are rapidly warming. The only thing that is forcing in that direction is the Anthropogenic increase in GHGs."

Well put, Rockhead! Considering that you haven't a clue of what you speak. It just so happens that the Milankovic Cycles you refer to, which I myself discussed here months ago have nothing to do with the Sun and its solar output! They are the combination of the Earth's orbital shape, axis and precession leftover from its formation which combine in endless ways of very slow changes measured over tens and hundreds of thousands of years, NOT decades, to be the greatest influence on our climate, NOT the Sun, and certainly not your fantasies about man and his tiny impact from 100 years of industry. The shit-talking pseudo-climatologist jackass is busted again.

But thanks for showing once again that despite all of the techno-babble about cycles, solar impact upon the Earth, methane, CO2 and whatever else you spew, that, as you say, we ought to be cooling, we WILL be cooling, so that means that either you fail to account for the real reason for our mini-warming or we really aren't warming at all, and the Earth and its climate is simply more complex than the small mind of man and his few decades of climate study. A false warming. Better pray for all the warming we can get, while we can get it.

Once again, you are broadcasting your ignorance for all to see.

Solar activity is declining—what to expect?

Phys.org)—Is Earth slowly heading for a new ice age? Looking at the decreasing number of sunspots, it may seem that we are entering a nearly spotless solar cycle which could result in lower temperatures for decades. "The solar cycle is starting to decline. Now we have less active regions visible on the sun's disk," Yaireska M. Collado-Vega, a space weather forecaster at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, told Phys.org.

But does it really mean a colder climate for our planet in the near future? In 1645, the so-called Maunder Minimum period started, when there were almost no sunspots. It lasted for 70 years and coincided with the well-known "Little Ice Age", when Europe and North America experienced lower-than-average temperatures. However, the theory that decreased solar activity caused the climate change is still controversial as no convincing evidence has been shown to prove this correlation.

Helen Popova, a Lomonosov Moscow State University researcher predicts that if the existing theories about the impact of solar activity on the climate are true, then this minimum will lead to a significant cooling, similar to the one during the Maunder Minimum period. She recently developed a unique physical-mathematical model of the evolution of the magnetic activity of the sun and used it to gain the patterns of occurrence of global minima of solar activity and gave them a physical interpretation.

Read more at: Solar activity is declining—what to expect?

I might point out that I never said that the Milankovic Cycles had anything to do with the sun. And the TSI is a bit less than it has been. And the warming continues to increase. Not that it will make much difference. The increase in GHGs in the atmosphere has far more forcing than even a full Maunder Minimum.

 

[Old Rocks]

Glad you don't work in my trade. You would be dead in a short time. You make assumptions based on nothing at all. This world reacts to the physical and chemical laws of nature. If something changes, then there is a reason. And, through the studies of scientists, we can find out those reasons.

Yeah . . . . what would I know of being a scientist or the physical and chemical laws of nature?!

Everything runs in cycles?

It's so tedious...if it all is natural, PROVE it's NATURAL changes.

The more relevant question should be for you to PROVE IT ISN'T NATURAL, Ace, since you are the one making the extraordinary claim saying we must drop everything or doom and gloom, NOT I. I don't need to prove anything.

Again, a dumb **** flaps his ignorant yap. We are currently in the down cycle of the Milankovic Cycles. The sun is putting out less TSI than it has previously. We should be cooling, instead, we are rapidly warming. The only thing that is forcing in that direction is the Anthropogenic increase in GHGs.

We ARE cooling dumbass. The only warming that your hero's can point to exists in their homologation computer models, not in the real world.

Not one Scientific Society agrees with your lying ass. LOL

 

[westwall]

Oddly enough, all of Earth's hottest inter-glacial periods, such as the Hadean, the late Neoproterozoic and the PETM (Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum) all occurred long ago before man and long before industry or any ability to blame climate change on man's industrial activity. Life came, it grew, it evolved and changed as the climate evolved and changed. Of course, man could not survive losing modern industrial activity without going back to an agrarian culture of the 18th century and giving up 2/3rds of its population. But the climate-fear-mongers never want to come to grips with that. Modern human civilization has developed over just the past 10,000 years or so. The period has generally been one of low temperatures and relative global climate stability. As always, the Earth moves on, indifferent to our needs but rather than adapt to meet the Earth, the modern liberal dreams of controlling/changing the Earth to meet HIM.

Maybe the problem isn't the climate but US. If Earth has a problem, maybe it is that it has 7.4 BILLION people on it now, and it is merely making a course correction to re-balance us as it does everything, back to maybe a more reasonable 3 billion. That should be about right. If that happens, it might be survival of the fittest, and my observation has always been that liberals and leftists are usually the WEAKEST.

Good God, that is about the stupidest thing I have ever read. The Hadean interglacial? You dumb ass, that was when our planet was forming and under bombardment.

Hadean Eon | geochronology

Hadean Eon, informal division of Precambrian time occurring between about 4.5 billion and about 4.0 billion years ago. The Hadean Eon is characterized by Earth’s initial formation—from the accretion of dust and gases and the frequent collisions of larger planetesimals—and by the stabilization of its core and crust and the development of its atmosphere and oceans. Throughout part of the eon, impacts from extraterrestrial bodies released enormous amounts of heat that likely prevented much of the rock from solidifying at the surface. As such, the name of the interval is a reference to Hades, a Greek translation of the Hebrew word for hell.

Yep, nothing like a little bit of knowledge from Google to make Old Rocks an overnight expert on geologic time! Yes, you are quite right, I was referring to HOT periods in the past that occurred without man and his horrible industry and these occurred between the ice ages, but since the Hadeon was the first of four eons, an informal period-- -- there obviously wasn't an ice age before that and I could have been more clear about that had I known I had to write a thesis to make my simple point to the more ignominious of this forum such as yourself. But your cellphone browser mislead you, Rock, the Earth FORMED 4.5 billion years ago, it didn't START forming then, and began the early Hadeon. Still, water and the earliest life was already forming or formed half way through the Hadeon, and your junior encyclopedia you referenced is simply misleading you. Still, I meant to refer to the Hadeon as one of three key hottest periods of the Earth and the Hadeon-Archean (early Precambrian) indeed made up the interval leading up to Earth's first major cooling period. But then, none of this changes a thing about the thread other than to show further what a pompous ass you really are.-- -- --

"Again, a dumb **** flaps his ignorant yap. We are currently in the down cycle of the Milankovic Cycles. The sun is putting out less TSI than it has previously. We should be cooling, instead, we are rapidly warming. The only thing that is forcing in that direction is the Anthropogenic increase in GHGs."

Well put, Rockhead! Considering that you haven't a clue of what you speak. It just so happens that the Milankovic Cycles you refer to, which I myself discussed here months ago have nothing to do with the Sun and its solar output! They are the combination of the Earth's orbital shape, axis and precession leftover from its formation which combine in endless ways of very slow changes measured over tens and hundreds of thousands of years, NOT decades, to be the greatest influence on our climate, NOT the Sun, and certainly not your fantasies about man and his tiny impact from 100 years of industry. The shit-talking pseudo-climatologist jackass is busted again.

But thanks for showing once again that despite all of the techno-babble about cycles, solar impact upon the Earth, methane, CO2 and whatever else you spew, that, as you say, we ought to be cooling, we WILL be cooling, so that means that either you fail to account for the real reason for our mini-warming or we really aren't warming at all, and the Earth and its climate is simply more complex than the small mind of man and his few decades of climate study. A false warming. Better pray for all the warming we can get, while we can get it.

Once again, you are broadcasting your ignorance for all to see.

Solar activity is declining—what to expect?

Phys.org)—Is Earth slowly heading for a new ice age? Looking at the decreasing number of sunspots, it may seem that we are entering a nearly spotless solar cycle which could result in lower temperatures for decades. "The solar cycle is starting to decline. Now we have less active regions visible on the sun's disk," Yaireska M. Collado-Vega, a space weather forecaster at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, told Phys.org.

But does it really mean a colder climate for our planet in the near future? In 1645, the so-called Maunder Minimum period started, when there were almost no sunspots. It lasted for 70 years and coincided with the well-known "Little Ice Age", when Europe and North America experienced lower-than-average temperatures. However, the theory that decreased solar activity caused the climate change is still controversial as no convincing evidence has been shown to prove this correlation.

Helen Popova, a Lomonosov Moscow State University researcher predicts that if the existing theories about the impact of solar activity on the climate are true, then this minimum will lead to a significant cooling, similar to the one during the Maunder Minimum period. She recently developed a unique physical-mathematical model of the evolution of the magnetic activity of the sun and used it to gain the patterns of occurrence of global minima of solar activity and gave them a physical interpretation.

Read more at: Solar activity is declining—what to expect?

I might point out that I never said that the Milankovic Cycles had anything to do with the sun. And the TSI is a bit less than it has been. And the warming continues to increase. Not that it will make much difference. The increase in GHGs in the atmosphere has far more forcing than even a full Maunder Minimum.

Holy cow batman! Even the astronomers know it's the Sun that regulates global temps, not some infinitesimal amount of gas....

Diminishing solar activity may bring new Ice Age by 2030

Diminishing solar activity may bring new Ice Age by 2030 – Astronomy Now

Solar Activity Is Declining -Scientists

 

[westwall]

Yeah . . . . what would I know of being a scientist or the physical and chemical laws of nature?!

Everything runs in cycles?

It's so tedious...if it all is natural, PROVE it's NATURAL changes.

The more relevant question should be for you to PROVE IT ISN'T NATURAL, Ace, since you are the one making the extraordinary claim saying we must drop everything or doom and gloom, NOT I. I don't need to prove anything.

Again, a dumb **** flaps his ignorant yap. We are currently in the down cycle of the Milankovic Cycles. The sun is putting out less TSI than it has previously. We should be cooling, instead, we are rapidly warming. The only thing that is forcing in that direction is the Anthropogenic increase in GHGs.

We ARE cooling dumbass. The only warming that your hero's can point to exists in their homologation computer models, not in the real world.

Not one Scientific Society agrees with your lying ass. LOL

Who cares what a bunch of political propagandists are pushing. The evidence is mounting faster than they can disappear and falsify it. You're whole meme is toast dude. CLIMATEGATE killed it. Now it's a bunch of clowns, such as yourself, screaming at the world wondering why no one is listening to you anymore. Paris Accord-TOAST
Carbon taxes imposed on a national level-TOAST. Cali may inflict them on her citizens but if they do it will be the end of the progressives in Cali as the people leave or rebel.

 

[Old Rocks]

Now Mr. Westwall, if you know so much more than all the working scientists, why were you not up on the podium in New Orleans, demostrating to all the scientists there from all over the world, that the current information is wrong? I can tell you why easily. You are the same type of genius that our present President is. LOL

 

[Old Rocks]

http://www.drroyspencer.com/wp-content/uploads/UAH_LT_1979_thru_December_2017_v6.jpg

For Additional Information: Dr. John Christy, (256) 961-7763 john.christy@nsstc.uah.edu Dr. Roy Spencer, (256) 961-7960

roy.spencer@nsstc.uah.edu

Global Temperature Report: December 2017

2017 was third warmest year in satellite record

Global climate trend since Nov. 16, 1978: +0.13 C per decade December temperatures (preliminary) Global composite temp.: +0.41 C (about 0.74 degrees Fahrenheit) above 30-year average for December. Northern Hemisphere: +0.50 C (about 0.90 degrees Fahrenheit) above 30-year average for December. Southern Hemisphere: +0.33 C (about 0.59 degrees Fahrenheit) above 30-year average for December. Tropics: +0.26 C (about 0.47 degrees Fahrenheit) above 30-year average for November.

https://www.nsstc.uah.edu/climate/2017/december/GTR_DEC2017.pdf

Boy, Mr. Westwall, now that really looks like cooling, right? LOL 2017, third warmest year on satellite record. In spite of a neutral Enso for most of the year, turning into a weak La Nina in the last part of the year. Cooling for sure. LOL

 

[westwall]

Now Mr. Westwall, if you know so much more than all the working scientists, why were you not up on the podium in New Orleans, demostrating to all the scientists there from all over the world, that the current information is wrong? I can tell you why easily. You are the same type of genius that our present President is. LOL

No, the reason why I don't present is because I am a ethical scientist and report FACT, not fiction. They only allow fiction presenters these days. That's alright though, all frauds get found out in the end. Hows your buddy mann doing with his lawsuit?

 

[anotherlife]

Oddly enough, all of Earth's hottest inter-glacial periods, such as the Hadean, the late Neoproterozoic and the PETM (Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum) all occurred long ago before man and long before industry or any ability to blame climate change on man's industrial activity. Life came, it grew, it evolved and changed as the climate evolved and changed. Of course, man could not survive losing modern industrial activity without going back to an agrarian culture of the 18th century and giving up 2/3rds of its population. But the climate-fear-mongers never want to come to grips with that. Modern human civilization has developed over just the past 10,000 years or so. The period has generally been one of low temperatures and relative global climate stability. As always, the Earth moves on, indifferent to our needs but rather than adapt to meet the Earth, the modern liberal dreams of controlling/changing the Earth to meet HIM.

Maybe the problem isn't the climate but US. If Earth has a problem, maybe it is that it has 7.4 BILLION people on it now, and it is merely making a course correction to re-balance us as it does everything, back to maybe a more reasonable 3 billion. That should be about right. If that happens, it might be survival of the fittest, and my observation has always been that liberals and leftists are usually the WEAKEST.

Good God, that is about the stupidest thing I have ever read. The Hadean interglacial? You dumb ass, that was when our planet was forming and under bombardment.

Hadean Eon | geochronology

Hadean Eon, informal division of Precambrian time occurring between about 4.5 billion and about 4.0 billion years ago. The Hadean Eon is characterized by Earth’s initial formation—from the accretion of dust and gases and the frequent collisions of larger planetesimals—and by the stabilization of its core and crust and the development of its atmosphere and oceans. Throughout part of the eon, impacts from extraterrestrial bodies released enormous amounts of heat that likely prevented much of the rock from solidifying at the surface. As such, the name of the interval is a reference to Hades, a Greek translation of the Hebrew word for hell.

Yep, nothing like a little bit of knowledge from Google to make Old Rocks an overnight expert on geologic time! Yes, you are quite right, I was referring to HOT periods in the past that occurred without man and his horrible industry and these occurred between the ice ages, but since the Hadeon was the first of four eons, an informal period-- -- there obviously wasn't an ice age before that and I could have been more clear about that had I known I had to write a thesis to make my simple point to the more ignominious of this forum such as yourself. But your cellphone browser mislead you, Rock, the Earth FORMED 4.5 billion years ago, it didn't START forming then, and began the early Hadeon. Still, water and the earliest life was already forming or formed half way through the Hadeon, and your junior encyclopedia you referenced is simply misleading you. Still, I meant to refer to the Hadeon as one of three key hottest periods of the Earth and the Hadeon-Archean (early Precambrian) indeed made up the interval leading up to Earth's first major cooling period. But then, none of this changes a thing about the thread other than to show further what a pompous ass you really are.-- -- --

"Again, a dumb **** flaps his ignorant yap. We are currently in the down cycle of the Milankovic Cycles. The sun is putting out less TSI than it has previously. We should be cooling, instead, we are rapidly warming. The only thing that is forcing in that direction is the Anthropogenic increase in GHGs."

Well put, Rockhead! Considering that you haven't a clue of what you speak. It just so happens that the Milankovic Cycles you refer to, which I myself discussed here months ago have nothing to do with the Sun and its solar output! They are the combination of the Earth's orbital shape, axis and precession leftover from its formation which combine in endless ways of very slow changes measured over tens and hundreds of thousands of years, NOT decades, to be the greatest influence on our climate, NOT the Sun, and certainly not your fantasies about man and his tiny impact from 100 years of industry. The shit-talking pseudo-climatologist jackass is busted again.

But thanks for showing once again that despite all of the techno-babble about cycles, solar impact upon the Earth, methane, CO2 and whatever else you spew, that, as you say, we ought to be cooling, we WILL be cooling, so that means that either you fail to account for the real reason for our mini-warming or we really aren't warming at all, and the Earth and its climate is simply more complex than the small mind of man and his few decades of climate study. A false warming. Better pray for all the warming we can get, while we can get it.

Once again, you are broadcasting your ignorance for all to see.

Solar activity is declining—what to expect?

Phys.org)—Is Earth slowly heading for a new ice age? Looking at the decreasing number of sunspots, it may seem that we are entering a nearly spotless solar cycle which could result in lower temperatures for decades. "The solar cycle is starting to decline. Now we have less active regions visible on the sun's disk," Yaireska M. Collado-Vega, a space weather forecaster at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, told Phys.org.

But does it really mean a colder climate for our planet in the near future? In 1645, the so-called Maunder Minimum period started, when there were almost no sunspots. It lasted for 70 years and coincided with the well-known "Little Ice Age", when Europe and North America experienced lower-than-average temperatures. However, the theory that decreased solar activity caused the climate change is still controversial as no convincing evidence has been shown to prove this correlation.

Helen Popova, a Lomonosov Moscow State University researcher predicts that if the existing theories about the impact of solar activity on the climate are true, then this minimum will lead to a significant cooling, similar to the one during the Maunder Minimum period. She recently developed a unique physical-mathematical model of the evolution of the magnetic activity of the sun and used it to gain the patterns of occurrence of global minima of solar activity and gave them a physical interpretation.

Read more at: Solar activity is declining—what to expect?

I might point out that I never said that the Milankovic Cycles had anything to do with the sun. And the TSI is a bit less than it has been. And the warming continues to increase. Not that it will make much difference. The increase in GHGs in the atmosphere has far more forcing than even a full Maunder Minimum.

Holy cow batman! Even the astronomers know it's the Sun that regulates global temps, not some infinitesimal amount of gas....

Diminishing solar activity may bring new Ice Age by 2030

Diminishing solar activity may bring new Ice Age by 2030 – Astronomy Now

Solar Activity Is Declining -Scientists

So much for hell freezing over. California too?

 

[toobfreak]

Oddly enough, all of Earth's hottest inter-glacial periods, such as the Hadean, the late Neoproterozoic and the PETM (Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum) all occurred long ago before man and long before industry or any ability to blame climate change on man's industrial activity. Life came, it grew, it evolved and changed as the climate evolved and changed. Of course, man could not survive losing modern industrial activity without going back to an agrarian culture of the 18th century and giving up 2/3rds of its population. But the climate-fear-mongers never want to come to grips with that. Modern human civilization has developed over just the past 10,000 years or so. The period has generally been one of low temperatures and relative global climate stability. As always, the Earth moves on, indifferent to our needs but rather than adapt to meet the Earth, the modern liberal dreams of controlling/changing the Earth to meet HIM.

Maybe the problem isn't the climate but US. If Earth has a problem, maybe it is that it has 7.4 BILLION people on it now, and it is merely making a course correction to re-balance us as it does everything, back to maybe a more reasonable 3 billion. That should be about right. If that happens, it might be survival of the fittest, and my observation has always been that liberals and leftists are usually the WEAKEST.

Good God, that is about the stupidest thing I have ever read. The Hadean interglacial? You dumb ass, that was when our planet was forming and under bombardment.

Hadean Eon | geochronology

Hadean Eon, informal division of Precambrian time occurring between about 4.5 billion and about 4.0 billion years ago. The Hadean Eon is characterized by Earth’s initial formation—from the accretion of dust and gases and the frequent collisions of larger planetesimals—and by the stabilization of its core and crust and the development of its atmosphere and oceans. Throughout part of the eon, impacts from extraterrestrial bodies released enormous amounts of heat that likely prevented much of the rock from solidifying at the surface. As such, the name of the interval is a reference to Hades, a Greek translation of the Hebrew word for hell.

Yep, nothing like a little bit of knowledge from Google to make Old Rocks an overnight expert on geologic time! Yes, you are quite right, I was referring to HOT periods in the past that occurred without man and his horrible industry and these occurred between the ice ages, but since the Hadeon was the first of four eons, an informal period-- -- there obviously wasn't an ice age before that and I could have been more clear about that had I known I had to write a thesis to make my simple point to the more ignominious of this forum such as yourself. But your cellphone browser mislead you, Rock, the Earth FORMED 4.5 billion years ago, it didn't START forming then, and began the early Hadeon. Still, water and the earliest life was already forming or formed half way through the Hadeon, and your junior encyclopedia you referenced is simply misleading you. Still, I meant to refer to the Hadeon as one of three key hottest periods of the Earth and the Hadeon-Archean (early Precambrian) indeed made up the interval leading up to Earth's first major cooling period. But then, none of this changes a thing about the thread other than to show further what a pompous ass you really are.-- -- --

"Again, a dumb **** flaps his ignorant yap. We are currently in the down cycle of the Milankovic Cycles. The sun is putting out less TSI than it has previously. We should be cooling, instead, we are rapidly warming. The only thing that is forcing in that direction is the Anthropogenic increase in GHGs."

Well put, Rockhead! Considering that you haven't a clue of what you speak. It just so happens that the Milankovic Cycles you refer to, which I myself discussed here months ago have nothing to do with the Sun and its solar output! They are the combination of the Earth's orbital shape, axis and precession leftover from its formation which combine in endless ways of very slow changes measured over tens and hundreds of thousands of years, NOT decades, to be the greatest influence on our climate, NOT the Sun, and certainly not your fantasies about man and his tiny impact from 100 years of industry. The shit-talking pseudo-climatologist jackass is busted again.

But thanks for showing once again that despite all of the techno-babble about cycles, solar impact upon the Earth, methane, CO2 and whatever else you spew, that, as you say, we ought to be cooling, we WILL be cooling, so that means that either you fail to account for the real reason for our mini-warming or we really aren't warming at all, and the Earth and its climate is simply more complex than the small mind of man and his few decades of climate study. A false warming. Better pray for all the warming we can get, while we can get it.

Once again, you are broadcasting your ignorance for all to see.

Solar activity is declining—what to expect?

Even as the article you point to says this right in its second paragraph: "the theory that decreased solar activity caused the climate change is still controversial as no convincing evidence has been shown to prove this correlation." Look fool, I'll save you a little more embarrassment by telling you in advance that I almost went into the field of astronomy before deciding on engineering as my main career but have and still do teach it on the side. I know all about the Sun so stop right here and quite trying to tell us something about it that neither you nor any one else knows. I love it when people post these maps of climate models as proving this or that when there are clearly flaws to all of them. Sure the Sun's cycles affect us, but not only are they poorly understood, whatever their effect, IT ONLY GOES BACK TO PROVE MY ORIGINAL POINT!

You clearly have an agenda to want to prove that MAN is the cause of climate change when only two things matter:
1). We have no control over the external forces that drive our climate.
2). Whatever man's influence, we are bound to the very GHGs you fear so much for another century until technology evolves to replace them. Without industry, we cannot sustain the world population.
And I would add a third point (again), removed from the system (the positive FB of mankind), the Earth is a self-correcting system that routinely self-corrects all of the time from far larger pressures!

Which makes the entire climate scare and its faux, self-serving industry of climate alarmists irrelevant to the outcome, observers at best and if I had my way, I would put all of you on the breadline, or to work doing something more useful, like delivering bread.

I might point out that I never said that the Milankovic Cycles had anything to do with the sun. And the TSI is a bit less than it has been.

Don't try to run from what you said, we all read it. When I was a kid, the talk was we were heading into an ice age. Now 50 years later, it is thermal runaway leading us to Venus-like conditions. I am embarrassed for you that you would even suggest that the periodicity and wobble, etc., of the Earth happening over tens of thousands of years is even a factor in explaining that change; that is akin to watching a tree grow in the forest, then coming back in 5 minutes to ask if anything has changed. Neither you nor I know for sure what the future of the Earth shall be, but whatever it is, whatever is going to happen IS going to happen and the draconian changes needed to kill man's carbon footyprint (if needed) are unaffordable and as bad or worse than what they might prevent. So once again, enjoy the ride.

 

[toobfreak]

Now Mr. Westwall, if you know so much more than all the working scientists, why were you not up on the podium in New Orleans, demostrating to all the scientists there from all over the world, that the current information is wrong? I can tell you why easily. You are the same type of genius that our present President is. LOL

No, the reason why I don't present is because I am a ethical scientist and report FACT, not fiction. They only allow fiction presenters these days. That's alright though, all frauds get found out in the end. Hows your buddy mann doing with his lawsuit?

I would only add that in reference to the prior mentioned Climategate, even if all their worries are true, their being found out as having been fudging the data to their favor to get the outcome they desire much like how the DOJ and FBI fudged the Clinton investigation to get the outcome they wanted (keep her in the election), has destroyed credibility and confidence in BOTH institutions. So when the world turns a deaf ear to the climate alarmists, all I can say is "Look in the mirror and thank yourselves!"

Second, when the Old Rock claims all the institutions agree (with him) about climate change, not only are there many who disagree, I would only point back to what the "Technologist" (I believe) said to me in an earlier post: it was something like: "I'm glad you don't work in my field or you would be dead!" Going into high-school, I had long aspired to be an astronomer / astrophysicist but for one thing, they don't pay well enough, second, you have to move to a university far from (my home) and work off of grants on approved projects (which may or may not be your real interest). Third, just ask the likes of Peter Higgs who proposed the Higgs Boson-- -- -- and was laughed at, until many years later the LHC proved him right. Do you know that if not for ONE MAN who broke down and read Einstein's first paper on Special Relativity, Albert might have spent his life in anonymity as a clerk? He had been so blackballed by the industry as a fool that no one would hire him much less read his work, except one respected scientist, who upon reading it, saw the import of what it said and brought others to read it as well. And from that unraveled the 20th century. If not for that ONE MAN, we might still be living in a 1930's world. Point being, I decided that was not for me.

FAR TOO MANY PEOPLE, as much in politics as in the world of science are entirely so close-minded and intolerant to new ideas or ideas that differ from their own that they miss them, ignore them, ridicule them, even go so far as to ruin careers and destroy lives, until as the Rock and Technologist have said, they are left with nobody that doesn't think and agree like them. A human trait that goes back far before Homo Sapiens, still alive and well in all the universities of the world.

 

[westwall]

Now Mr. Westwall, if you know so much more than all the working scientists, why were you not up on the podium in New Orleans, demostrating to all the scientists there from all over the world, that the current information is wrong? I can tell you why easily. You are the same type of genius that our present President is. LOL

No, the reason why I don't present is because I am a ethical scientist and report FACT, not fiction. They only allow fiction presenters these days. That's alright though, all frauds get found out in the end. Hows your buddy mann doing with his lawsuit?

I would only add that in reference to the prior mentioned Climategate, even if all their worries are true, their being found out as having been fudging the data to their favor to get the outcome they desire much like how the DOJ and FBI fudged the Clinton investigation to get the outcome they wanted (keep her in the election), has destroyed credibility and confidence in BOTH institutions. So when the world turns a deaf ear to the climate alarmists, all I can say is "Look in the mirror and thank yourselves!"

Second, when the Old Rock claims all the institutions agree (with him) about climate change, not only are there many who disagree, I would only point back to what the "Technologist" (I believe) said to me in an earlier post: it was something like: "I'm glad you don't work in my field or you would be dead!" Going into high-school, I had long aspired to be an astronomer / astrophysicist but for one thing, they don't pay well enough, second, you have to move to a university far from (my home) and work off of grants on approved projects (which may or may not be your real interest). Third, just ask the likes of Peter Higgs who proposed the Higgs Boson-- -- -- and was laughed at, until many years later the LHC proved him right. Do you know that if not for ONE MAN who broke down and read Einstein's first paper on Special Relativity, Albert might have spent his life in anonymity as a clerk? He had been so blackballed by the industry as a fool that no one would hire him much less read his work, except one respected scientist, who upon reading it, saw the import of what it said and brought others to read it as well. And from that unraveled the 20th century. If not for that ONE MAN, we might still be living in a 1930's world. Point being, I decided that was not for me.

FAR TOO MANY PEOPLE, as much in politics as in the world of science are entirely so close-minded and intolerant to new ideas or ideas that differ from their own that they miss them, ignore them, ridicule therm, even go so far as to ruin careers and destroy lives, until as the Rock and Technologist have said, they are left with nobody that doesn't think and agree like them. A human trait that goes back far before Homo Sapiens, still alive and well in all the universities of the world.

Yes, in my own field it was Alfred Wegener who was reviled for his plate tectonics theory. It wasn't until thirty years later that Harry Hess was able to re present it, and even then only as a poem. The scientific world is full of frauds, and imbeciles who rest on their laurels and woe be to the person who endangers their reputations.

 

[toobfreak]

Now Mr. Westwall, if you know so much more than all the working scientists, why were you not up on the podium in New Orleans, demostrating to all the scientists there from all over the world, that the current information is wrong? I can tell you why easily. You are the same type of genius that our present President is. LOL

No, the reason why I don't present is because I am a ethical scientist and report FACT, not fiction. They only allow fiction presenters these days. That's alright though, all frauds get found out in the end. Hows your buddy mann doing with his lawsuit?

I would only add that in reference to the prior mentioned Climategate, even if all their worries are true, their being found out as having been fudging the data to their favor to get the outcome they desire much like how the DOJ and FBI fudged the Clinton investigation to get the outcome they wanted (keep her in the election), has destroyed credibility and confidence in BOTH institutions. So when the world turns a deaf ear to the climate alarmists, all I can say is "Look in the mirror and thank yourselves!"

Second, when the Old Rock claims all the institutions agree (with him) about climate change, not only are there many who disagree, I would only point back to what the "Technologist" (I believe) said to me in an earlier post: it was something like: "I'm glad you don't work in my field or you would be dead!" Going into high-school, I had long aspired to be an astronomer / astrophysicist but for one thing, they don't pay well enough, second, you have to move to a university far from (my home) and work off of grants on approved projects (which may or may not be your real interest). Third, just ask the likes of Peter Higgs who proposed the Higgs Boson-- -- -- and was laughed at, until many years later the LHC proved him right. Do you know that if not for ONE MAN who broke down and read Einstein's first paper on Special Relativity, Albert might have spent his life in anonymity as a clerk? He had been so blackballed by the industry as a fool that no one would hire him much less read his work, except one respected scientist, who upon reading it, saw the import of what it said and brought others to read it as well. And from that unraveled the 20th century. If not for that ONE MAN, we might still be living in a 1930's world. Point being, I decided that was not for me.

FAR TOO MANY PEOPLE, as much in politics as in the world of science are entirely so close-minded and intolerant to new ideas or ideas that differ from their own that they miss them, ignore them, ridicule therm, even go so far as to ruin careers and destroy lives, until as the Rock and Technologist have said, they are left with nobody that doesn't think and agree like them. A human trait that goes back far before Homo Sapiens, still alive and well in all the universities of the world.

Yes, in my own field it was Alfred Wegener who was reviled for his plate tectonics theory. It wasn't until thirty years later that Harry Hess was able to re present it, and even then only as a poem. The scientific world is full of frauds, and imbeciles who rest on their laurels and woe be to the person who endangers their reputations.

I used to keep a list of people who went through similar things. I believe the same thing happened with Darwin, there was another man, working independently and not as a professional along the same ideas of the nature of species who traveled the world making observations and actually kept in touch with Darwin sending him notes and things. He was actually AHEAD of Darwin and was only looking to make contributions, while Darwin was looking for fame, money and notoriety, much as Edison did with Tesla, so at one point, Darwin realized that he was at risk of being beaten to the punchline by this other fellow and raced to cut him off and take all of the credit. The other man remains virtually unknown today (even I cannot recall his name). If you ever caught the second 'Cosmos' TV series, many episodes uncover remarkable people who made major contributions who, for one reason or another, the history books ignored or scorned because they did the worst of all possible things, dared to think outside the box independently and look truthfully at the phenomenal world around them.

 

[Billy_Bob]

And I would add a third point (again), removed from the system (the positive FB of mankind), the Earth is a self-correcting system that routinely self-corrects all of the time from far larger pressures!

BINGO

WE HAVE A WINNER!!!

Thank You! This is precisely the point that alarmists don't get. Even the Paleo records shows the earths corrections from far more massive pressures.The earths response is always within a 12 deg C range of temperatures and we are far from exiting the natural variation shown in the empirical record.

 

[anotherlife]

And I would add a third point (again), removed from the system (the positive FB of mankind), the Earth is a self-correcting system that routinely self-corrects all of the time from far larger pressures!

BINGO

WE HAVE A WINNER!!!

Thank You! This is precisely the point that alarmists don't get. Even the Paleo records shows the earths corrections from far more massive pressures.The earths response is alwaysnging, within a 12 deg C range of temperatures and we are far from exiting the natural variation shown in the empirical record.

View attachment 170267

This diagram is also proof, that the Earth is normally 10 C degrees warmer than any time in human history. The current global warming can simply be a return to the usual 22 C. Also, this diagram proves, that there is no direct correlation between temperature and atmospheric CO2. The CO2 keeps changing, but the temperature is constant, in geological time.

 

[Old Rocks]

Oddly enough, all of Earth's hottest inter-glacial periods, such as the Hadean, the late Neoproterozoic and the PETM (Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum) all occurred long ago before man and long before industry or any ability to blame climate change on man's industrial activity. Life came, it grew, it evolved and changed as the climate evolved and changed. Of course, man could not survive losing modern industrial activity without going back to an agrarian culture of the 18th century and giving up 2/3rds of its population. But the climate-fear-mongers never want to come to grips with that. Modern human civilization has developed over just the past 10,000 years or so. The period has generally been one of low temperatures and relative global climate stability. As always, the Earth moves on, indifferent to our needs but rather than adapt to meet the Earth, the modern liberal dreams of controlling/changing the Earth to meet HIM.

Maybe the problem isn't the climate but US. If Earth has a problem, maybe it is that it has 7.4 BILLION people on it now, and it is merely making a course correction to re-balance us as it does everything, back to maybe a more reasonable 3 billion. That should be about right. If that happens, it might be survival of the fittest, and my observation has always been that liberals and leftists are usually the WEAKEST.

Good God, that is about the stupidest thing I have ever read. The Hadean interglacial? You dumb ass, that was when our planet was forming and under bombardment.

Hadean Eon | geochronology

Hadean Eon, informal division of Precambrian time occurring between about 4.5 billion and about 4.0 billion years ago. The Hadean Eon is characterized by Earth’s initial formation—from the accretion of dust and gases and the frequent collisions of larger planetesimals—and by the stabilization of its core and crust and the development of its atmosphere and oceans. Throughout part of the eon, impacts from extraterrestrial bodies released enormous amounts of heat that likely prevented much of the rock from solidifying at the surface. As such, the name of the interval is a reference to Hades, a Greek translation of the Hebrew word for hell.

Yep, nothing like a little bit of knowledge from Google to make Old Rocks an overnight expert on geologic time! Yes, you are quite right, I was referring to HOT periods in the past that occurred without man and his horrible industry and these occurred between the ice ages, but since the Hadeon was the first of four eons, an informal period-- -- there obviously wasn't an ice age before that and I could have been more clear about that had I known I had to write a thesis to make my simple point to the more ignominious of this forum such as yourself. But your cellphone browser mislead you, Rock, the Earth FORMED 4.5 billion years ago, it didn't START forming then, and began the early Hadeon. Still, water and the earliest life was already forming or formed half way through the Hadeon, and your junior encyclopedia you referenced is simply misleading you. Still, I meant to refer to the Hadeon as one of three key hottest periods of the Earth and the Hadeon-Archean (early Precambrian) indeed made up the interval leading up to Earth's first major cooling period. But then, none of this changes a thing about the thread other than to show further what a pompous ass you really are.-- -- --

"Again, a dumb **** flaps his ignorant yap. We are currently in the down cycle of the Milankovic Cycles. The sun is putting out less TSI than it has previously. We should be cooling, instead, we are rapidly warming. The only thing that is forcing in that direction is the Anthropogenic increase in GHGs."

Well put, Rockhead! Considering that you haven't a clue of what you speak. It just so happens that the Milankovic Cycles you refer to, which I myself discussed here months ago have nothing to do with the Sun and its solar output! They are the combination of the Earth's orbital shape, axis and precession leftover from its formation which combine in endless ways of very slow changes measured over tens and hundreds of thousands of years, NOT decades, to be the greatest influence on our climate, NOT the Sun, and certainly not your fantasies about man and his tiny impact from 100 years of industry. The shit-talking pseudo-climatologist jackass is busted again.

But thanks for showing once again that despite all of the techno-babble about cycles, solar impact upon the Earth, methane, CO2 and whatever else you spew, that, as you say, we ought to be cooling, we WILL be cooling, so that means that either you fail to account for the real reason for our mini-warming or we really aren't warming at all, and the Earth and its climate is simply more complex than the small mind of man and his few decades of climate study. A false warming. Better pray for all the warming we can get, while we can get it.

Once again, you are broadcasting your ignorance for all to see.

Solar activity is declining—what to expect?

Even as the article you point to says this right in its second paragraph: "the theory that decreased solar activity caused the climate change is still controversial as no convincing evidence has been shown to prove this correlation." Look fool, I'll save you a little more embarrassment by telling you in advance that I almost went into the field of astronomy before deciding on engineering as my main career but have and still do teach it on the side. I know all about the Sun so stop right here and quite trying to tell us something about it that neither you nor any one else knows. I love it when people post these maps of climate models as proving this or that when there are clearly flaws to all of them. Sure the Sun's cycles affect us, but not only are they poorly understood, whatever their effect, IT ONLY GOES BACK TO PROVE MY ORIGINAL POINT!

You clearly have an agenda to want to prove that MAN is the cause of climate change when only two things matter:
1). We have no control over the external forces that drive our climate.
2). Whatever man's influence, we are bound to the very GHGs you fear so much for another century until technology evolves to replace them. Without industry, we cannot sustain the world population.
And I would add a third point (again), removed from the system (the positive FB of mankind), the Earth is a self-correcting system that routinely self-corrects all of the time from far larger pressures!

Which makes the entire climate scare and its faux, self-serving industry of climate alarmists irrelevant to the outcome, observers at best and if I had my way, I would put all of you on the breadline, or to work doing something more useful, like delivering bread.

I might point out that I never said that the Milankovic Cycles had anything to do with the sun. And the TSI is a bit less than it has been.

Don't try to run from what you said, we all read it. When I was a kid, the talk was we were heading into an ice age. Now 50 years later, it is thermal runaway leading us to Venus-like conditions. I am embarrassed for you that you would even suggest that the periodicity and wobble, etc., of the Earth happening over tens of thousands of years is even a factor in explaining that change; that is akin to watching a tree grow in the forest, then coming back in 5 minutes to ask if anything has changed. Neither you nor I know for sure what the future of the Earth shall be, but whatever it is, whatever is going to happen IS going to happen and the draconian changes needed to kill man's carbon footyprint (if needed) are unaffordable and as bad or worse than what they might prevent. So once again, enjoy the ride.

1. We have no control over the external factors that drive our climate.

You are correct. We have no control over tectonics, the sun, or large volcanic eruptions. But we do have control over the fact that we have put a vast amount of GHGs in our atmosphere, and that is the reason that we went from a slow cooling to a very rapid warming. We have raised the amount of CO2 in our atmosphere from 280 ppm to 400+ ppm. And the CH4 from about 700 to 800 ppb to over 1850 ppb. And that is rapidly warming the atmosphere and oceans.

2. We can change over from the fossil fuels to renewables in a generation, should we choose to. If we fail to do that, then the cost is going to be very high, including the loss of many of our coastal cities.

The earth is a self correcting system. Why yes, it is. Warmer oceans, warmer atmosphere, and a lot more water vapor in the atmosphere. Easily corrected, dump 56" of rain on Houston and surrounding areas. Those corrections do not give a damn about man or his works.

Now, Toob, stop being an asshole, and putting words into my mouth. I have never claimed thermal runaway as the result of the GHGs that we are putting into the atmosphere. That may be possible, but I doubt it. However, we are creating a much poorer world for our children. And people like you don't give a damn as long as you have yours.

When you were a child in the 70's, I was an adult. And reading scientific literature. And most of the scientific literature of the time stated that warming was a danger. Some thought that the industrial air pollution would continue to increase to the point that it would create a long term cooling. However, they were soon disabused of that notion, both by the readily apparent warming, and by the fact that the then industrial nations cleaned up their act. Much to the chagrin of people like you. Plus there was a PNAS paper in 1975 that stated at that time we really did not have enough data to determine whether there we were were in for cooling or warming in the long term, from the actions of man. And the majority of papers published in peer reviewed journals stated the evidence at that time pointed more towards warming;

Figure 1: Number of papers classified as predicting future global cooling (blue) or warming (red). In no year were there more global cooling papers than global warming papers.

So in fact, the large majority of climate research in the 1970s predicted the Earth would warm as a consequence of CO2. Rather than climate science predicting cooling, the opposite is the case. Most interesting about Peterson's paper is not the debunking of an already well debunked skeptic argument but a succinct history of climate science over the 20th century, describing how scientists from different fields gradually pieced together their diverse findings into a more unified picture of how climate operates. A must read paper.

What 1970s science said about global cooling

 

[Old Rocks]

Now Mr. Westwall, if you know so much more than all the working scientists, why were you not up on the podium in New Orleans, demostrating to all the scientists there from all over the world, that the current information is wrong? I can tell you why easily. You are the same type of genius that our present President is. LOL

No, the reason why I don't present is because I am a ethical scientist and report FACT, not fiction. They only allow fiction presenters these days. That's alright though, all frauds get found out in the end. Hows your buddy mann doing with his lawsuit?

I would only add that in reference to the prior mentioned Climategate, even if all their worries are true, their being found out as having been fudging the data to their favor to get the outcome they desire much like how the DOJ and FBI fudged the Clinton investigation to get the outcome they wanted (keep her in the election), has destroyed credibility and confidence in BOTH institutions. So when the world turns a deaf ear to the climate alarmists, all I can say is "Look in the mirror and thank yourselves!"

Second, when the Old Rock claims all the institutions agree (with him) about climate change, not only are there many who disagree, I would only point back to what the "Technologist" (I believe) said to me in an earlier post: it was something like: "I'm glad you don't work in my field or you would be dead!" Going into high-school, I had long aspired to be an astronomer / astrophysicist but for one thing, they don't pay well enough, second, you have to move to a university far from (my home) and work off of grants on approved projects (which may or may not be your real interest). Third, just ask the likes of Peter Higgs who proposed the Higgs Boson-- -- -- and was laughed at, until many years later the LHC proved him right. Do you know that if not for ONE MAN who broke down and read Einstein's first paper on Special Relativity, Albert might have spent his life in anonymity as a clerk? He had been so blackballed by the industry as a fool that no one would hire him much less read his work, except one respected scientist, who upon reading it, saw the import of what it said and brought others to read it as well. And from that unraveled the 20th century. If not for that ONE MAN, we might still be living in a 1930's world. Point being, I decided that was not for me.

FAR TOO MANY PEOPLE, as much in politics as in the world of science are entirely so close-minded and intolerant to new ideas or ideas that differ from their own that they miss them, ignore them, ridicule therm, even go so far as to ruin careers and destroy lives, until as the Rock and Technologist have said, they are left with nobody that doesn't think and agree like them. A human trait that goes back far before Homo Sapiens, still alive and well in all the universities of the world.

Yes, in my own field it was Alfred Wegener who was reviled for his plate tectonics theory. It wasn't until thirty years later that Harry Hess was able to re present it, and even then only as a poem. The scientific world is full of frauds, and imbeciles who rest on their laurels and woe be to the person who endangers their reputations.

I used to keep a list of people who went through similar things. I believe the same thing happened with Darwin, there was another man, working independently and not as a professional along the same ideas of the nature of species who traveled the world making observations and actually kept in touch with Darwin sending him notes and things. He was actually AHEAD of Darwin and was only looking to make contributions, while Darwin was looking for fame, money and notoriety, much as Edison did with Tesla, so at one point, Darwin realized that he was at risk of being beaten to the punchline by this other fellow and raced to cut him off and take all of the credit. The other man remains virtually unknown today (even I cannot recall his name). If you ever caught the second 'Cosmos' TV series, many episodes uncover remarkable people who made major contributions who, for one reason or another, the history books ignored or scorned because they did the worst of all possible things, dared to think outside the box independently and look truthfully at the phenomenal world around them.

You ******* dumb ass liar, the name was Wallace, an the Origin of the Species carried his name on as well as that of Darwin. Darwin aided Wallace in getting recognition for his work, and aided him in furthering his career. Why you have to lie about a great man who was also a gentleman, I don't know. What the hell do you get out of lying like that?