Arctic sea ice melt greater than last year
- Thread starter Chris
- Start date
KittenKoder
Senior Member
What purpose does the ice serve? In nature everything has a purpose and reason, so what is it?
gee, that story was done in Jan 09
in the MIDDLE of the southern hemispheres SUMMER
what a dumb fuck you are
he doesnt even have a clue
KittenKoder
Senior Member
... and you wonder why these threads always turn into flames ... I asked a serious question and this is all you have. What purpose does the ice in Antarctica and all the glaciers serve?
- Thread starter
- #27
Purpose?
What purpose does anything serve except to be an expression of God's creation.
KittenKoder
Senior Member
Okay ... now you have shown you really only care about telling other people how to live, thanks for proving my point as well, you know nothing of the science you are quoting, absolutely nothing.
he's done that so many times now, i'm kinda surprised you even bothered to make the attempt
- Thread starter
- #30
You really are kooky, Koder.
KittenKoder
Senior Member
See, you just can't come out and admit that you are more willing to take someone elses word for it and use that to force your will on others. If I am wrong then prove it, what is the purpose of the large masses of ice in the world? The really awesome thing is, you can't just Google this one, you actually have to know a thing or two about nature and science
Old Rocks
Diamond Member
PhysicsCentral: GRACE Under Fire: Research
After taking into account all the above effects, the GRACE scientists find that from 2002 through 2005, the volume of the Antarctic ice sheet decreased substantially, corresponding to .4 mm plus or minus .2 mm of sea-level increase per year. This result was a surprise, both because of the extremely low temperatures in Antarctica, as mentioned above, and because forecasts of global warming had predicted increased snowfall in Antarctica.
In an earlier study, GRACE determined that the Greenland ice sheet is melting more rapidly than previously thought—in fact, the melting in Greenland and in Antarctica each produce about the same rate of sea level rise. So these ice sheets together add about .8 mm/yr. The overall rate of sea level rise over the last ten years, as obtained from statistical studies of radar measurements, is about 3 mm/year, and roughly half of this increase is due to thermal expansion of the oceans.
Old Rocks
Diamond Member
20 January 08
Antarctic ice sheets melting at ever-faster rate due to global warming: new study
Tags: Global Warming Resources, Antarctica, Bill Miller, British Antarctic Survey, climate change, Environment, General, global warming, global warming blog, Government Policy, IPCC, Ipcc, Nature Geoscience, Regulatory, Science, Science, United Nations, Organizations
The report in last week’s Nature Geoscience, which builds on previous findings, lends greater urgency to the search for a new global agreement to limit greenhouse emissions.
Nature Geoscience has concluded that changes in water temperature and wind patterns due to global warming are melting ice sheets in western Antarctica at a much faster rate than previously detected.
Using measurements from satellites that scanned about 85 percent of Antarctica’s coasts from 1996 to 2006, the study’s authors found that West Antarctica has been losing ice 60 percent faster than 10 years ago.
While ice loss is still rather small compared with Antarctica’s vast ice sheets, the study said if the trend continues global sea levels could raise higher and more swiftly than previously supposed.
A report by the British Antarctic Survey, itself based on earlier work completed in 2005, registered a 12% increase in melting from 1993 to 2003 and concluded that eighty-seven percent of glaciers have been retreating and are now actually speeding up. The Antarctic Peninsula, moreover, has warmed by nearly 3C over the last half-century.
The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change has predicted if nothing is done to slow the increase in global-warming gases, the world’s oceans could rise as much as two feet this century. Many scientists add another foot because they think the panel underestimated glacial flows.
How much the Antarctic melting will add is still anybody’s guess, but the new findings are yet another sign that there is no way to deny global warming.
Bill Miller | Antarctic ice sheets melting at ever-faster rate due to global warming: new study
Antarctic ice sheets melting at ever-faster rate due to global warming: new study
Tags: Global Warming Resources, Antarctica, Bill Miller, British Antarctic Survey, climate change, Environment, General, global warming, global warming blog, Government Policy, IPCC, Ipcc, Nature Geoscience, Regulatory, Science, Science, United Nations, Organizations
The report in last week’s Nature Geoscience, which builds on previous findings, lends greater urgency to the search for a new global agreement to limit greenhouse emissions.
Nature Geoscience has concluded that changes in water temperature and wind patterns due to global warming are melting ice sheets in western Antarctica at a much faster rate than previously detected.
Using measurements from satellites that scanned about 85 percent of Antarctica’s coasts from 1996 to 2006, the study’s authors found that West Antarctica has been losing ice 60 percent faster than 10 years ago.
While ice loss is still rather small compared with Antarctica’s vast ice sheets, the study said if the trend continues global sea levels could raise higher and more swiftly than previously supposed.
A report by the British Antarctic Survey, itself based on earlier work completed in 2005, registered a 12% increase in melting from 1993 to 2003 and concluded that eighty-seven percent of glaciers have been retreating and are now actually speeding up. The Antarctic Peninsula, moreover, has warmed by nearly 3C over the last half-century.
The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change has predicted if nothing is done to slow the increase in global-warming gases, the world’s oceans could rise as much as two feet this century. Many scientists add another foot because they think the panel underestimated glacial flows.
How much the Antarctic melting will add is still anybody’s guess, but the new findings are yet another sign that there is no way to deny global warming.
Bill Miller | Antarctic ice sheets melting at ever-faster rate due to global warming: new study
Old Rocks
Diamond Member
Monaghan, A.J.; Bromwich, D.H.; Fogt, R.L.; Wang, S.; Mayewski, P.A.; Dixon, D.A.; Ekaykin, A.; Frezzotti, M.; Goodwin, I.; Isaksson, E.; Kaspari, S.D.; Morgan, V.I.; Oerter, H.; Van Ommen, T.D.; Van der Veen, C.J.; and J. Wen. “Insignificant Change in Antarctic Snowfall Since the International Geophysical Year.” Science 313(5788): 827-831. 11 August 2006.
The UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change projects in its 2001 report that the next century will see some net ice gain – rather than net loss – from Antarctica as precipitation (and hence snow thickness) increases with global warming. However, Velicogna and Wahr argue that this projection fails to take into account coastal regions, where the ice has low thresholds for resistance to temperature rise. Using data from the Gravity Recovery and Climate Experiments (GRACE) survey satellite, the scientists were able to measure the ice loss. They found that Antarctica contributed 0.4 � 0.2 mm of sea level rise per year during the period 2002 to 2005, the majority of which was coming from the Western Antarctic ice sheet. In a separate study, Monaghan et al. demonstrate that snowfall over the Antarctic continent has not increased since the 1950s, and, therefore, sea level rise will likely continue unmitigated, as Antarctica is characterized by a net mass loss.
Implications: Antarctic melt is usually not included in medium- and short-term models of global warming impacts and sea level rise. If the findings in these studies turn out to be true, such melting must be included in climate models – and the results will raise overall anticipated sea levels.
Overpeck, J.T.; Otto-Bliesner, B.L.; Miller, G.H.; Muhs, D.R.; Alley, R.B.; and J.T. Kiehl. “Paleoclimatic Evidence for Future Ice-Sheet Instability and Rapid Sea-Level Rise.” Science 311(5768): 1747-1750. 24 March 2006.
Overpeck et al. assert that sea level rise may very well be substantially faster and more significant than initially thought. Examining the last interglacial period 127,000 to 130,000 years ago (the Eemian interglacial), during which warming was approximately equivalent to that projected for the year 2100, they find sea levels 4 to 6 meters above those of the present day. Moreover, they found that sea level rise (specifically related to melting of the Greenland ice sheet and the West Antarctic ice sheet) was extremely rapid. They conclude that the potential for massive ice sheet loss is real, and that it may be triggered even with modest warming.
Implications: If this result is correct, it suggests the linear projections of ice sheet melt – assumed to be quite modest in most global warming scenarios – are vastly understated. The expectation that global warming could exceed levels of the last interglacial further increases the significance of these results, implying a clear potential for sea level rise of several meters by 2100 rather than only the tens of centimeters suggested.
Glaciers/Snow Melt | World Resources Institute
The UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change projects in its 2001 report that the next century will see some net ice gain – rather than net loss – from Antarctica as precipitation (and hence snow thickness) increases with global warming. However, Velicogna and Wahr argue that this projection fails to take into account coastal regions, where the ice has low thresholds for resistance to temperature rise. Using data from the Gravity Recovery and Climate Experiments (GRACE) survey satellite, the scientists were able to measure the ice loss. They found that Antarctica contributed 0.4 � 0.2 mm of sea level rise per year during the period 2002 to 2005, the majority of which was coming from the Western Antarctic ice sheet. In a separate study, Monaghan et al. demonstrate that snowfall over the Antarctic continent has not increased since the 1950s, and, therefore, sea level rise will likely continue unmitigated, as Antarctica is characterized by a net mass loss.
Implications: Antarctic melt is usually not included in medium- and short-term models of global warming impacts and sea level rise. If the findings in these studies turn out to be true, such melting must be included in climate models – and the results will raise overall anticipated sea levels.
Overpeck, J.T.; Otto-Bliesner, B.L.; Miller, G.H.; Muhs, D.R.; Alley, R.B.; and J.T. Kiehl. “Paleoclimatic Evidence for Future Ice-Sheet Instability and Rapid Sea-Level Rise.” Science 311(5768): 1747-1750. 24 March 2006.
Overpeck et al. assert that sea level rise may very well be substantially faster and more significant than initially thought. Examining the last interglacial period 127,000 to 130,000 years ago (the Eemian interglacial), during which warming was approximately equivalent to that projected for the year 2100, they find sea levels 4 to 6 meters above those of the present day. Moreover, they found that sea level rise (specifically related to melting of the Greenland ice sheet and the West Antarctic ice sheet) was extremely rapid. They conclude that the potential for massive ice sheet loss is real, and that it may be triggered even with modest warming.
Implications: If this result is correct, it suggests the linear projections of ice sheet melt – assumed to be quite modest in most global warming scenarios – are vastly understated. The expectation that global warming could exceed levels of the last interglacial further increases the significance of these results, implying a clear potential for sea level rise of several meters by 2100 rather than only the tens of centimeters suggested.
Glaciers/Snow Melt | World Resources Institute
KittenKoder
Senior Member
Rocks, you still have not provided an answer to my question, again, you are avoiding all other facts.
What is the purpose of large bodies of ice in nature?
What is the purpose of large bodies of ice in nature?
Old Rocks
Diamond Member
Are you trying to get into theology or philosophy here? Large masses of ice are the result of the climate that we have experianced and enjoyed over the last 10,000 years. If that ice melts, it is the result of a major change in that climate, a change that will have major effects on the places where mankind lives, and the amount of food that we can raise.
Nature has no purpose. It exists. If, through our own actions, or an accident of nature, a major portion of mankind ceases to exist, it matters not at all to nature. Nature has certain rules, rules we have discovered through the study of sciences such as Physics, Chemistry, Biology, and Geology. When we change one value in those rules, other values change. Nature cares not one whit about those changes.
In other words, nature has no purpose for the large bodies of ice. They are the result of the configuration of the continents, the height of the Himalayas, and the eccentricies in the orbit of the Earth. Purpose is for sentient beings. Nature is neither a being, nor sentient. It simply is.
RetiredGySgt
Diamond Member
I keep asking, if all this ice has already melted, WHY am I not under water? I am only a few miles from the Atlantic Ocean.
Better yet if all this ice is melting and melting faster then ever before and we have lost all this gargantuan areas of ice, where the hell is the water at? How come our sea level is rising at such a minuscule amount every year? How come that raise is still nearly identical to what it was the last 100 years?
Where is the bloody water?
It does not appear to be IN the atmosphere. If it were our measuring instruments would know it. It is not in the ocean, unless there is some great spot out in the middle of one of them that is hiding the extra water.
Old Rocks your little tirades only work a few times before sane people start asking where the hell is all the water? Your scare tactics might work on the sheep, but eventually even they are gonna wonder where the hell all the water is.
Better yet if all this ice is melting and melting faster then ever before and we have lost all this gargantuan areas of ice, where the hell is the water at? How come our sea level is rising at such a minuscule amount every year? How come that raise is still nearly identical to what it was the last 100 years?
Where is the bloody water?
It does not appear to be IN the atmosphere. If it were our measuring instruments would know it. It is not in the ocean, unless there is some great spot out in the middle of one of them that is hiding the extra water.
Old Rocks your little tirades only work a few times before sane people start asking where the hell is all the water? Your scare tactics might work on the sheep, but eventually even they are gonna wonder where the hell all the water is.
Old Rocks
Diamond Member
Sarge, if you were to bother the research the subject, you would see that they have measured the amount of ice that has melted and shown that it has clearly raised the level of the sea. Not by a large amount at present, but the curve is not linear, it is a log curve.
Melting Greenland Ice Sheets May Threaten Northeast United States, Canada - News Release
Melting Greenland Ice Sheets May Threaten Northeast United States, Canada
May 27, 2009
BOULDER—Melting of the Greenland ice sheet this century may drive more water than previously thought toward the already threatened coastlines of New York, Boston, Halifax, and other cities in the northeastern United States and Canada, according to new research led by the National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR).
The study, which is being published Friday in Geophysical Research Letters, finds that if Greenland's ice melts at moderate to high rates, ocean circulation by 2100 may shift and cause sea levels off the northeast coast of North America to rise by about 12 to 20 inches (about 30 to 50 centimeters) more than in other coastal areas. The research builds on recent reports that have found that sea level rise associated with global warming could adversely affect North America, and its findings suggest that the situation is more threatening than previously believed.
This visualization, based on new computer modeling, shows that sea level rise may be an additional 10 centimeters (4 inches) higher by populated areas in northeastern North America than previously thought. Extreme northeastern North America and Greenland may experience even higher sea level rise. (Graphic courtesy Geophysical Research Letters, modified by UCAR.) [ENLARGE] News media terms of use*
"If the Greenland melt continues to accelerate, we could see significant impacts this century on the northeast U.S. coast from the resulting sea level rise," says NCAR scientist Aixue Hu, the lead author. "Major northeastern cities are directly in the path of the greatest rise."
A study in Nature Geoscience in March warned that warmer water temperatures could shift ocean currents in a way that would raise sea levels off the Northeast by about 8 inches (20 cm) more than the average global sea level rise. But it did not include the additional impact of Greenland's ice, which at moderate to high melt rates would further accelerate changes in ocean circulation and drive an additional 4 to 12 inches (about 10 to 30 cm) of water toward heavily populated areas of northeastern North America on top of average global sea level rise. More remote areas in extreme northeastern Canada and Greenland could see even higher sea level rise.
Scientists have been cautious about estimating average sea level rise this century in part because of complex processes within ice sheets. The 2007 assessment of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change projected that sea levels worldwide could rise by an average of 7 to 23 inches (18 to 59 cm) this century, but many researchers believe the rise will be greater because of dynamic factors in ice sheets that appear to have accelerated the melting rate in recent years.
Melting Greenland Ice Sheets May Threaten Northeast United States, Canada - News Release
Melting Greenland Ice Sheets May Threaten Northeast United States, Canada
May 27, 2009
BOULDER—Melting of the Greenland ice sheet this century may drive more water than previously thought toward the already threatened coastlines of New York, Boston, Halifax, and other cities in the northeastern United States and Canada, according to new research led by the National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR).
The study, which is being published Friday in Geophysical Research Letters, finds that if Greenland's ice melts at moderate to high rates, ocean circulation by 2100 may shift and cause sea levels off the northeast coast of North America to rise by about 12 to 20 inches (about 30 to 50 centimeters) more than in other coastal areas. The research builds on recent reports that have found that sea level rise associated with global warming could adversely affect North America, and its findings suggest that the situation is more threatening than previously believed.
This visualization, based on new computer modeling, shows that sea level rise may be an additional 10 centimeters (4 inches) higher by populated areas in northeastern North America than previously thought. Extreme northeastern North America and Greenland may experience even higher sea level rise. (Graphic courtesy Geophysical Research Letters, modified by UCAR.) [ENLARGE] News media terms of use*
"If the Greenland melt continues to accelerate, we could see significant impacts this century on the northeast U.S. coast from the resulting sea level rise," says NCAR scientist Aixue Hu, the lead author. "Major northeastern cities are directly in the path of the greatest rise."
A study in Nature Geoscience in March warned that warmer water temperatures could shift ocean currents in a way that would raise sea levels off the Northeast by about 8 inches (20 cm) more than the average global sea level rise. But it did not include the additional impact of Greenland's ice, which at moderate to high melt rates would further accelerate changes in ocean circulation and drive an additional 4 to 12 inches (about 10 to 30 cm) of water toward heavily populated areas of northeastern North America on top of average global sea level rise. More remote areas in extreme northeastern Canada and Greenland could see even higher sea level rise.
Scientists have been cautious about estimating average sea level rise this century in part because of complex processes within ice sheets. The 2007 assessment of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change projected that sea levels worldwide could rise by an average of 7 to 23 inches (18 to 59 cm) this century, but many researchers believe the rise will be greater because of dynamic factors in ice sheets that appear to have accelerated the melting rate in recent years.
Old Rocks
Diamond Member
Surface Melt-Induced Acceleration of Greenland Ice-Sheet Flow
H. Jay Zwally,1* Waleed Abdalati,2 Tom Herring,3 Kristine Larson,4 Jack Saba,5 Konrad Steffen6
Ice flow at a location in the equilibrium zone of the west-central Greenland Ice Sheet accelerates above the midwinter average rate during periods of summer melting. The near coincidence of the ice acceleration with the duration of surface melting, followed by deceleration after the melting ceases, indicates that glacial sliding is enhanced by rapid migration of surface meltwater to the ice-bedrock interface. Interannual variations in the ice acceleration are correlated with variations in the intensity of the surface melting, with larger increases accompanying higher amounts of summer melting. The indicated coupling between surface melting and ice-sheet flow provides a mechanism for rapid, large-scale, dynamic responses of ice sheets to climate warming.
Surface Melt-Induced Acceleration of Greenland Ice-Sheet Flow -- Zwally et al. 297 (5579): 218 -- Science
H. Jay Zwally,1* Waleed Abdalati,2 Tom Herring,3 Kristine Larson,4 Jack Saba,5 Konrad Steffen6
Ice flow at a location in the equilibrium zone of the west-central Greenland Ice Sheet accelerates above the midwinter average rate during periods of summer melting. The near coincidence of the ice acceleration with the duration of surface melting, followed by deceleration after the melting ceases, indicates that glacial sliding is enhanced by rapid migration of surface meltwater to the ice-bedrock interface. Interannual variations in the ice acceleration are correlated with variations in the intensity of the surface melting, with larger increases accompanying higher amounts of summer melting. The indicated coupling between surface melting and ice-sheet flow provides a mechanism for rapid, large-scale, dynamic responses of ice sheets to climate warming.
Surface Melt-Induced Acceleration of Greenland Ice-Sheet Flow -- Zwally et al. 297 (5579): 218 -- Science
Big Black Dog
Platinum Member
- May 20, 2009
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Sounds like one of those phrases right out of the liberal Democrat handbook to me... Let me guess, you voted for Obama... Dork.
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