Archaeologists find 3,100-year-old pottery bearing the name of biblical judge

[Colin norris]

Oh look! Someone got his skirt in the breeze and feels threatened by facts!

Really?

Someone's got your knickers in a knot because
I once again caught you lying.
You never learn dopey.
Stick to your filthy paedophile bible.

 

[Votto]

I have never done Facebook.
You will recognize the names of these Canaanite tribes. The Canaanites

The Bible is actually the only record of such Canaanite tribes such as the Philistines.

Biblical Archeologists just read about who they were, where they were suppose to be, and went digging and found them

This is part of what makes the Bible such a treasure and why the Bible is the ONLY religious text to have created a scientific discipline behind it.

 

[surada]

The Bible is actually the only record of such Canaanite tribes such as the Philistines.

Biblical Archeologists just read about who they were, where they were suppose to be, and went digging and found them

This is part of what makes the Bible such a treasure and why the Bible is the ONLY religious text to have created a scientific discipline behind it.

The Philistines were just one tribe out of seven who lived in South Cannan.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Nah. I checked. He never had a page on Facebook

Heil Zuckerberg!

He did, but ancient anti-semitic cancel culture removed all traces of it.

 

[Mushroom]

The Bible is actually the only record of such Canaanite tribes such as the Philistines.

Because to the neighboring nations, they were either invaders (sea peoples), or to be invaded. And as such their names were of little importance. But one of the names recorded during the conquest by Ramses II was a nation called "Peleset", which resided in territory the Bible said the Philistines held.

 

[DudleySmith]

Actually, there is.

You have to for the first eliminate the concept of "Global Flood" covering "all of Earth", and narrow it down to the world-view of those that recorded it. In the mind of an Indian living on the banks of the Mississippi in Louisiana, a flood that covered everything south of the modern Arkansas-Tennessee would be "global". To an ancient person who predates even the Babylonian Empire, a floor that covered the entire area around the Tigris and Euphrates would equally be "global".

And most who do believe in the Bible and other religions are not "literalists", who take every single word as written by people thousands of years ago as the literal truth.

As for Babel, like the story of Moses, that was adopted by the Hebrews during the Exile. But the accounts predate the written word, and naturally morphed greatly in the eons before it was written.

As far as an Exodus, that did happen. But not the way it is told. Even Josephus and other Historians of the First Century CE realized that the ancient Israelites who left Egypt were who we now recognize as the Hyksos. Who were not slaves, but took over part of Egypt until they were expelled (roughly 1600-1500 BCE). And in that era, many Pharaohs and high ranking officials has "Mose" in their name. Ahmose, Kamose, Ramose, and more. But the comparison between the Hyksos and "Israelites" is striking, not only in where they came from and went to after the Egyptians threw them out, but even their dress and behaviors.

More now are recognizing that much of Exodus was slanted in the folktales passed for over a thousand years before they were finally written down. So instead of invaders who were thrown out, they morphed into slaves that were delivered by God. And at one point they were granted lands and rulership over Eastern Egypt, which is where the "Brother of the Pharaoh" came from. Even more so in that era, most Monarchs referred to each other as "Brothers".

But when looking at The Bible, you have to realize first and foremost it is the written record of their history. And was a spoken tradition for well over a thousand years prior to being written down. This is obvious in how often certain numbers are repeated, that is typical of any oral tradition. Without writing, an oral historian would not bother with the 13 years between the end of the French and Indian Wars and the American Revolution, it would be shortened to "a decade". And not "Four score and seven years", but "half a century". The numbers 40 and 7 in regards to years between events (or even days) repeats all the time in the Old Testament. A holdover from when it was oral history before being written down.

In the Hebrew Culture, "40" is seen s a significant amount of time, be it 40 days (duration of the flood), to 40 years (how long the Israelites wandered in the desert). That should never be taken literally, it was simply how those that remembered oral tradition remembered things. All oral traditions around the world use similar tricks.

But if you want a good idea of what may have happened in "The Real Exodus", here is a good documentary from 2005. Which tries to cut through the "Religious nonsense", and compare real world events in roughly the same time period and tie the folklore into what was likely real history of the era.

And besides that ancient peoples who did any traveling would have seen all the sea fossils littering the ground and rocks far up the sides of mountains like Ararat; even the Himalayas have fish fossils up its sides, so 'Great Flood narratives would be perfectly logical assumptions for a lot of tribes, no single origin needed for such narratives to develop as explanations and their aftermath.

 

[Mushroom]

And besides that ancient peoples who did any traveling would have seen all the sea fossils littering the ground and rocks far up the sides of mountains like Ararat; even the Himalayas have fish fossils up its sides, so 'Great Flood narratives would be perfectly logical assumptions for a lot of tribes, no single origin needed for such narratives to develop as explanations and their aftermath.

Actually, until the modern era floods were common and devastated large areas of the planet. One does not even need to see fossils.

In 1887 almost a million were killed in a flood in China that covered an area the size of North Carolina. And Mesopotamia was flooding all the time in that era.

 

[DudleySmith]

Actually, until the modern era floods were common and devastated large areas of the planet. One does not even need to see fossils.

In 1887 almost a million were killed in a flood in China that covered an area the size of North Carolina. And Mesopotamia was flooding all the time in that era.

Yes, but not nearly as convincing as finding sea shells thousands of feet up mountainsides for a 'worldwide' giant flood story.

 

[surada]

Yes, but not nearly as convincing as finding sea shells thousands of feet up mountainsides for a 'worldwide' giant flood story.

The creationists believe the earth was flat until the flood and the mountain rages popped after the flood.

 

[DudleySmith]

The creationists believe the earth was flat until the flood and the mountain rages popped after the flood.

Of course this myth is a lie, and been proven false many times. The 'flat earth' myth was spread by 19th century Xian bashers who were themselves poorly educated but thought themselves to be otherwise.

Myth of the flat Earth - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The myth of the flat Earth, or the flat earth error, is a modern historical misconception that European scholars and educated people during the Middle Ages believed the Earth to be flat.[1][2]

The earliest clear documentation of the idea of a spherical Earth comes from the ancient Greeks (5th century BC). The belief was widespread in the Greek world when Eratosthenes calculated the circumference of Earth around 240 BC. This knowledge spread with Greek influence such that during the Early Middle Ages (~600–1000 AD), most European and Middle Eastern scholars espoused Earth's sphericity.[3] Belief in a flat Earth among educated Europeans was almost nonexistent from the Late Middle Ages onward, though fanciful depictions appear in art, such as the exterior panels of Hieronymus Bosch's famous triptych The Garden of Earthly Delights, in which a disc-shaped Earth is shown floating inside a transparent sphere.[4]

According to Stephen Jay Gould, "there never was a period of 'flat Earth darkness' among scholars, regardless of how the public at large may have conceptualized our planet both then and now. Greek knowledge of sphericity never faded, and all major medieval scholars accepted the Earth's roundness as an established fact of cosmology."[5] Historians of science David Lindberg and Ronald Numbers point out that "there was scarcely a Christian scholar of the Middle Ages who did not acknowledge [Earth's] sphericity and even know its approximate circumference".[6]

Historian Jeffrey Burton Russell says the flat-Earth error flourished most between 1870 and 1920, and had to do with the ideological setting created by struggles over biological evolution. Russell claims "with extraordinary few exceptions no educated person in the history of Western Civilization from the third century B.C. onward believed that the Earth was flat", and ascribes popularization of the flat-Earth myth to histories by John William Draper, Andrew Dickson White, and Washington Irving.[2][7][8]

The Myth of the Flat Earth

Article by James Hannam on the myth that people in the Middle Ages believed the earth was flat

jameshannam.com

Anti-clerical history of science writers have promulgated the myth so that even today, in his book The Discoverers, Daniel Boorstin manages to produce a totally misleading account (although he eventually gets Columbus right). His bias shows badly when he castigates Christians for thinking the world was flat when they did not and then praises the erudition of Chinese geographers who actually did believe it. The myth is so prevalent that the blurb on the back cover of the UK version of Umberto Eco's book Serendipities, the editor repeats the myth even though within the book itself, Eco devotes a good deal of attention to debunking it! The doyen of historians of medieval science, Edward Grant, covers the issue in his book, God and Reason in the Middle Ages. He finds all educated people in the Middle Ages were well aware the Earth was a sphere. Perhaps today we can at last dispense with this patronising belief about people who lived in the past.

Only the ignorant and uneducated keep spouting the nonsense re Christians being 'Flat Earthers'.

 

[surada]

Of course this myth is a lie, and been proven false many times. The 'flat earth' myth was spread by 19th century Xian bashers who were themselves poorly educated but thought themselves to be otherwise.

Myth of the flat Earth - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The myth of the flat Earth, or the flat earth error, is a modern historical misconception that European scholars and educated people during the Middle Ages believed the Earth to be flat.[1][2]

The earliest clear documentation of the idea of a spherical Earth comes from the ancient Greeks (5th century BC). The belief was widespread in the Greek world when Eratosthenes calculated the circumference of Earth around 240 BC. This knowledge spread with Greek influence such that during the Early Middle Ages (~600–1000 AD), most European and Middle Eastern scholars espoused Earth's sphericity.[3] Belief in a flat Earth among educated Europeans was almost nonexistent from the Late Middle Ages onward, though fanciful depictions appear in art, such as the exterior panels of Hieronymus Bosch's famous triptych The Garden of Earthly Delights, in which a disc-shaped Earth is shown floating inside a transparent sphere.[4]

According to Stephen Jay Gould, "there never was a period of 'flat Earth darkness' among scholars, regardless of how the public at large may have conceptualized our planet both then and now. Greek knowledge of sphericity never faded, and all major medieval scholars accepted the Earth's roundness as an established fact of cosmology."[5] Historians of science David Lindberg and Ronald Numbers point out that "there was scarcely a Christian scholar of the Middle Ages who did not acknowledge [Earth's] sphericity and even know its approximate circumference".[6]

Historian Jeffrey Burton Russell says the flat-Earth error flourished most between 1870 and 1920, and had to do with the ideological setting created by struggles over biological evolution. Russell claims "with extraordinary few exceptions no educated person in the history of Western Civilization from the third century B.C. onward believed that the Earth was flat", and ascribes popularization of the flat-Earth myth to histories by John William Draper, Andrew Dickson White, and Washington Irving.[2][7][8]

The Myth of the Flat Earth

Article by James Hannam on the myth that people in the Middle Ages believed the earth was flat

jameshannam.com

Anti-clerical history of science writers have promulgated the myth so that even today, in his book The Discoverers, Daniel Boorstin manages to produce a totally misleading account (although he eventually gets Columbus right). His bias shows badly when he castigates Christians for thinking the world was flat when they did not and then praises the erudition of Chinese geographers who actually did believe it. The myth is so prevalent that the blurb on the back cover of the UK version of Umberto Eco's book Serendipities, the editor repeats the myth even though within the book itself, Eco devotes a good deal of attention to debunking it! The doyen of historians of medieval science, Edward Grant, covers the issue in his book, God and Reason in the Middle Ages. He finds all educated people in the Middle Ages were well aware the Earth was a sphere. Perhaps today we can at last dispense with this patronising belief about people who lived in the past.

Only the ignorant and uneducated keep spouting the nonsense re Christians being 'Flat Earthers'.

I'm speaking of topography. Not denying the earth is a sphere. Lots of Christian Creationists on this board claim the surface of the earth was flat until Noah's global flood.

 

[surada]

What does Genesis 7:20 mean? | BibleRef.com

The water prevailed fifteen cubits higher, and the mountains were covered. - What is the meaning of Genesis 7:20?

www.bibleref.com

 

[surada]

The Tigris and Euphrates river basin is pretty flat. Genesis 7:20 also uses the word "Erets" which doesn't mean the whole earth.

 

[Mushroom]

Yes, but not nearly as convincing as finding sea shells thousands of feet up mountainsides for a 'worldwide' giant flood story.

What?

Remember, you are talking about a pre-literate culture, where most would likely never travel more than a dozen miles from their home.

Who among them would see fossils on top of a mountain?

However, all would comprehend a massive flood that covers tens of thousands of square miles. To them, their "entire world".

Oh, and until fairly recently, there was a simple explanation for most fossils. They lived in the ground, and we sometimes found their bones. Many thought the early mastodon bodies found were some kind of gigantic mole. So seeing shells on a mountain? Simple explanation, it was a breed of shellfish that lived on mountains.

You are making a classic mistake. And that is you are trying to have ancient pre-literate humans think as modern ones.

 

[DudleySmith]

What?

Remember, you are talking about a pre-literate culture, where most would likely never travel more than a dozen miles from their home.

Who among them would see fossils on top of a mountain?

However, all would comprehend a massive flood that covers tens of thousands of square miles. To them, their "entire world".

Oh, and until fairly recently, there was a simple explanation for most fossils. They lived in the ground, and we sometimes found their bones. Many thought the early mastodon bodies found were some kind of gigantic mole. So seeing shells on a mountain? Simple explanation, it was a breed of shellfish that lived on mountains.

You are making a classic mistake. And that is you are trying to have ancient pre-literate humans think as modern ones.

Many peoples wandered around; most of their historical stories came from far earlier times and passed down in some cases for thousands of years. They were oral traditions, not written ones.

You are making a classic mistake. And that is you are trying to have ancient pre-literate humans think as modern ones.

Rubbish. As for floods being common, it would also be common knowledge to the survivors that what they experienced wasn't 'worldwide', or they wouldn't have lived; that's why they new that a flood that was deep as the one they assumed reached far up the mountains would have been 'worldwide', reaching far beyond the known world. They never thought their tiny little corner was 'the whole world'; there were trade routes, long ones, long before written history and cities.

Oh, and until fairly recently, there was a simple explanation for most fossils. They lived in the ground, and we sometimes found their bones. Many thought the early mastodon bodies found were some kind of gigantic mole. So seeing shells on a mountain? Simple explanation, it was a breed of shellfish that lived on mountains.

lol they didn't mistake mastodons for fish and sea fossils, that's just silly. They knew where fish and shellfish came from, rivers and seas. If some minor tribe thought so, well, big deal, most didn't.

 

[Mushroom]

Many peoples wandered around; most of their historical stories came from far earlier times and passed down in some cases for thousands of years. They were oral traditions, not written ones.

I know, and stated so many times before. Like somebody remembering a flood that their grandfather's grandfather lived through. No need to connect rocks on top of a mountain.

And most did not wander all that far. Maybe a few traders as far as a village a dozen miles away. That was how most trade networks operated back then. A trader takes goods from Village A to Village B, another then took it to Village C.

Rubbish. As for floods being common, it would also be common knowledge to the survivors that what they experienced wasn't 'worldwide', or they wouldn't have lived;

OK, now I can tell this is hard for you to imagine. That's alright, you apparently have a small mind.

Now you are a prehistoric and pre-literate peasant, barely above hunter-gatherer and in the early phase of a pastoral lifestyle. Your entire village is a few hundred people, and the area you roam is smaller than Ni'ihau Island. Then you experience a flood. One that covers an area the size of North Carolina. Everything you can see is underwater in all directions.

What would you think, other than the entire world is underwater? And when you hear from survivors from other villages afterwards, they experienced the exact same thing. And they heard the same thing from the next village. And the village after that. All reported a flood without end.

The problem is that you are constantly trying to put concepts into the minds of people that did not think that way. You are using your modern knowledge, and trying to force it onto them.

that's why they new that a flood that was deep as the one they assumed reached far up the mountains would have been 'worldwide', reaching far beyond the known world. They never thought their tiny little corner was 'the whole world'; there were trade routes, long ones, long before written history and cities.

How deep is a flood, when you are inside of it? Most people living along the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers could not swim. What, they are going to go diving, to see how deep it is? It may only be a dozen or so feet, does not matter. And the last thing you do if you are in a boat or anything else is to actually climb out and see how deep it is, even if you can swim. I can only imagine you have never seen a flood, they have strong currents. Plus also debris floating in the water. A great way to die as you are swept away from your boat.



That is the Sacramento River, as the I-5 crosses over the Yolo floodplain. Ask any who live near there, this is a yearly happening. The floodplain looks calm, but watch how it is flowing under the causeway. The water is actually flowing much faster than the river it follows. Been in many floods over the decades, and there is a damned good reason they tell you to never go into floodwaters.

Especially in cases like this, where the waterway actually has crocodiles.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

There are tons of history writers in history.

What a jackass

 

[DudleySmith]

I know, and stated so many times before. Like somebody remembering a flood that their grandfather's grandfather lived through. No need to connect rocks on top of a mountain.

And most did not wander all that far. Maybe a few traders as far as a village a dozen miles away. That was how most trade networks operated back then. A trader takes goods from Village A to Village B, another then took it to Village C.



OK, now I can tell this is hard for you to imagine. That's alright, you apparently have a small mind.

Now you are a prehistoric and pre-literate peasant, barely above hunter-gatherer and in the early phase of a pastoral lifestyle. Your entire village is a few hundred people, and the area you roam is smaller than Ni'ihau Island. Then you experience a flood. One that covers an area the size of North Carolina. Everything you can see is underwater in all directions.

What would you think, other than the entire world is underwater? And when you hear from survivors from other villages afterwards, they experienced the exact same thing. And they heard the same thing from the next village. And the village after that. All reported a flood without end.

The problem is that you are constantly trying to put concepts into the minds of people that did not think that way. You are using your modern knowledge, and trying to force it onto them.




How deep is a flood, when you are inside of it? Most people living along the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers could not swim. What, they are going to go diving, to see how deep it is? It may only be a dozen or so feet, does not matter. And the last thing you do if you are in a boat or anything else is to actually climb out and see how deep it is, even if you can swim. I can only imagine you have never seen a flood, they have strong currents. Plus also debris floating in the water. A great way to die as you are swept away from your boat.



That is the Sacramento River, as the I-5 crosses over the Yolo floodplain. Ask any who live near there, this is a yearly happening. The floodplain looks calm, but watch how it is flowing under the causeway. The water is actually flowing much faster than the river it follows. Been in many floods over the decades, and there is a damned good reason they tell you to never go into floodwaters.

Especially in cases like this, where the waterway actually has crocodiles.

More rubbish. Keep trying, though, since sheer boredom among posters will give you the last word, no matter how silly you get.

 

[Mushroom]

More rubbish. Keep trying, though, since sheer boredom among posters will give you the last word, no matter how silly you get.

Tell me this then.

We have multiple cases of "global floods" in ancient myth. Indians, Hebrews, Babylonians, Egypt, Inca, China, Iran, India, Japan, Philippines, Greek, Finland, the list just goes on and on. Almost all prehistoric and near-prehistoric cultures have one. Now all also occur in areas where massive floods are common.

Yet somehow, we are to believe that none of these experienced a massive flood, and somehow came up with the idea from seeing rocks.

 

[my2¢]

I read about 100 verses of the Bible each day and last Sunday I read through Judges, chapters 6 through 8. Thus, news of the discovery was especially timely.