'Anti-Zionism Is Anti-Semitic'?

[Coyote]

An interesting article...

I think the title is 'wrong' however...

I just don't buy into the 'zionist' belief that any word said against the Israeli government and policies is 'anti-semitic'...

If I were to make a negative comment about the South African government, for example, that would not make me a racist...

5 Intellectuals Smash the Anti-Zionism Is Anti-Semitic Argument

Anti-Israeli government is not the same as anti-Semitism. Two different things. It's like saying if you are against the US government, you hate all Americans.

"Anti Israel govt" is not anti Zionism, you ignoramus.

The thing is, I've never heard any criticism of Israel, other than related to the Palestinians. Not in the way other "normal" countries are criticised.

It's an abnormal obsession, the justifications meandering into the land of myths.

I don't think so...Israel, is to some extent, defined by it's unresolved relationship to the Palestinians. It's one of the only countries created in modern times, in the midst of already inhabited regions where conflict and who owns what territory is unresolved. Liberia was created in a similar way, though for different purposes - a piece of colonial territory to be a homeland for all freed slaves (in the hopes they would leave and go back to Africa). Both regions had native people's already and conflicts.

I think the unresolved nature of the conflict, what seems a lack of justice for the Palestinians, the legacy of the Holocaust and anti-semitism all can play a part in it.

 

[Mindful]

Back to the topic.


There is a dangerous confluence between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism, though the two concepts are not always identical. Anti-Zionism is often used to conceal hatred of Jews. Anti-Semitic views can be easily distinguished from legitimate criticism of Israel.

• Consider the source. Is the speaker someone with a history of anti-Jewish attitudes?
• Critics who habitually single out Israel for condemnation while ignoring far worse actions by other countries (especially other Middle Eastern countries) are anti-Semitic.
• Likening Israel to Nazi Germany, or to traditional anti-Jewish stereotypical behavior is another sure sign of Jew-baiting.
• Attacks on the merits of Israel's existence rather than individual government policies are anti-Semitic.

When approached by a student who attacked Zionism, Dr. Martin Luther King responded: “When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You're talking anti-Semitism.”

(From Seymour Martin Lipset, “The Socialism of Fools—The Left, the Jews and Israel,” Encounter, (December 1969), p. 24.)

 

[Roudy]

Back to the topic.


There is a dangerous confluence between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism, though the two concepts are not always identical. Anti-Zionism is often used to conceal hatred of Jews. Anti-Semitic views can be easily distinguished from legitimate criticism of Israel.

• Consider the source. Is the speaker someone with a history of anti-Jewish attitudes?
• Critics who habitually single out Israel for condemnation while ignoring far worse actions by other countries (especially other Middle Eastern countries) are anti-Semitic.
• Likening Israel to Nazi Germany, or to traditional anti-Jewish stereotypical behavior is another sure sign of Jew-baiting.
• Attacks on the merits of Israel's existence rather than individual government policies are anti-Semitic.

When approached by a student who attacked Zionism, Dr. Martin Luther King responded: “When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You're talking anti-Semitism.”

(From Seymour Martin Lipset, “The Socialism of Fools—The Left, the Jews and Israel,” Encounter, (December 1969), p. 24.)

^^^^^^^^

When approached by a student who attacked Zionism, Dr. Martin Luther King responded: “When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You're talking anti-Semitism.”

(From Seymour Martin Lipset, “The Socialism of Fools—The Left, the Jews and Israel,” Encounter, (December 1969), p. 24.)

 

[Coyote]

Back to the topic.


There is a dangerous confluence between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism, though the two concepts are not always identical. Anti-Zionism is often used to conceal hatred of Jews. Anti-Semitic views can be easily distinguished from legitimate criticism of Israel.

• Consider the source. Is the speaker someone with a history of anti-Jewish attitudes?
• Critics who habitually single out Israel for condemnation while ignoring far worse actions by other countries (especially other Middle Eastern countries) are anti-Semitic.
• Likening Israel to Nazi Germany, or to traditional anti-Jewish stereotypical behavior is another sure sign of Jew-baiting.
• Attacks on the merits of Israel's existence rather than individual government policies are anti-Semitic.

When approached by a student who attacked Zionism, Dr. Martin Luther King responded: “When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You're talking anti-Semitism.”

(From Seymour Martin Lipset, “The Socialism of Fools—The Left, the Jews and Israel,” Encounter, (December 1969), p. 24.)

I would agree with 1, 3 and 4.

#2 - not so much. Look at the people who post here. Many tend to have their own particular areas of interest and specialization and passion. What drives people to "single out" Israel might be the same thing which drives people to, at one time, "single out" South Africa, or "single out" Burma. There seems to be this expectation that once must be equitable in condemnations around the world and that expectation only comes up with Israel.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Back to the topic.


There is a dangerous confluence between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism, though the two concepts are not always identical. Anti-Zionism is often used to conceal hatred of Jews. Anti-Semitic views can be easily distinguished from legitimate criticism of Israel.

• Consider the source. Is the speaker someone with a history of anti-Jewish attitudes?
• Critics who habitually single out Israel for condemnation while ignoring far worse actions by other countries (especially other Middle Eastern countries) are anti-Semitic.
• Likening Israel to Nazi Germany, or to traditional anti-Jewish stereotypical behavior is another sure sign of Jew-baiting.
• Attacks on the merits of Israel's existence rather than individual government policies are anti-Semitic.

When approached by a student who attacked Zionism, Dr. Martin Luther King responded: “When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You're talking anti-Semitism.”

(From Seymour Martin Lipset, “The Socialism of Fools—The Left, the Jews and Israel,” Encounter, (December 1969), p. 24.)

Critics who habitually single out Israel for condemnation while ignoring far worse actions by other countries (especially other Middle Eastern countries) are anti-Semitic.​

When a Palestinian was asked why he singled out Israel his response was that Israel was the only country occupying Palestine.

 

[Mindful]

Back to the topic.


There is a dangerous confluence between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism, though the two concepts are not always identical. Anti-Zionism is often used to conceal hatred of Jews. Anti-Semitic views can be easily distinguished from legitimate criticism of Israel.

• Consider the source. Is the speaker someone with a history of anti-Jewish attitudes?
• Critics who habitually single out Israel for condemnation while ignoring far worse actions by other countries (especially other Middle Eastern countries) are anti-Semitic.
• Likening Israel to Nazi Germany, or to traditional anti-Jewish stereotypical behavior is another sure sign of Jew-baiting.
• Attacks on the merits of Israel's existence rather than individual government policies are anti-Semitic.

When approached by a student who attacked Zionism, Dr. Martin Luther King responded: “When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You're talking anti-Semitism.”

(From Seymour Martin Lipset, “The Socialism of Fools—The Left, the Jews and Israel,” Encounter, (December 1969), p. 24.)

Critics who habitually single out Israel for condemnation while ignoring far worse actions by other countries (especially other Middle Eastern countries) are anti-Semitic.​

When a Palestinian was asked why he singled out Israel his response was that Israel was the only country occupying Palestine.

So? What do you want me to say?

Your guy was either an Egyptian or a Jordanian for over 20 years. Then overnight he became a Palestinian.

 

[flacaltenn]

An interesting article...

I think the title is 'wrong' however...

I just don't buy into the 'zionist' belief that any word said against the Israeli government and policies is 'anti-semitic'...

If I were to make a negative comment about the South African government, for example, that would not make me a racist...

5 Intellectuals Smash the Anti-Zionism Is Anti-Semitic Argument

It's common sense dude. If your "anti-zionism" involves pushing Israel into the sea or fantasies of them picking up and leaving Israel -- or visions of honor for killing Israeli citizens and innocents -------- THEN it IS anti-Jew and anti Semitic.

Does that about answer the question?

Does it answer the question? Well, yes and no...

Your answer is too 'simplistic' and, if I may say, rather 'extreme'...

Would my criticizing a speech made by Netanyahu, or the continuation of more settlers into the WB be considered anti zionist or anti semitic?

Based upon my belief that the Jews SHOULD have a homeland, have self-determination, I think that rules me out of being an anti zionist.

Based upon my NON hatred of Jews, I have many Jewish friends around the world, I think that rules me out of being an anti semite.

Yet, there are MANY people who have the same beliefs as I do who, like me, get tagged as an anti zionist, anti semite, simply because I don't believe that everything that Israel does is right...

As has already been said in a previous post, it's like walking on eggshells... It seems that ANY negative comment or criticism of Israel WILL lead to that anti zionist/anti semite tag...

I understand your moderate stance. And I certainly appreciate it. But making excuses for MILITANT leadership of the Palestinian cause would certainly void all of that "moderation"... WE don't get to choose the leadership of Israel or Palestine. So you are free to criticize any ONE of the them, but condoning ineffective senseless death and violence in LIEU of meaningful nationalistic planning and LEADERSHIP for the Palis WOULD be very anti-Jewish and anti-semitic.. Because you would be EXCUSING the stated goals of pushing Israel off the map or hardening hearts so as not to negotiate for PROGRESS and peace..

 

[montelatici]

The problem is that the Zionist fanatics do not understand that this particular section is dedicated to the Israel/Palestine conflict. So of course every post should be about the Israel/Palestine conflict.

The other problem is that Zionists do not understand that non Jews do not have a different moral compass for Jews. If Jews bombard Gaza and kill thousands, they are treated no differently than Russians when they did the same to Grozny, claiming that the civilian deaths were unintentional. Nor do most non Jews (Christian Zionists excluded) feel that just because they were of the Jewish faith and/or had been oppressed in Europe, they had a right to expropriate the native inhabitants of Palestine.

If the people had been Roma (who also were subjects of extermination by the Nazis) that had expropriated the native inhabitants of Palestine, they would receive the same criticism as the Jews for doing the same thing.

 

[Mindful]

The problem is that the Zionist fanatics do not understand that this particular section is dedicated to the Israel/Palestine conflict. So of course every post should be about the Israel/Palestine conflict.

The other problem is that Zionists do not understand that non Jews do not have a different moral compass for Jews. If Jews bombard Gaza and kill thousands, they are treated no differently than Russians when they did the same to Grozny, claiming that the civilian deaths were unintentional. Nor do most non Jews (Christian Zionists excluded) feel that just because they were of the Jewish faith and/or had been oppressed in Europe, they had a right to expropriate the native inhabitants of Palestine.

If the people had been Roma (who also were subjects of extermination by the Nazis) that had expropriated the native inhabitants of Palestine, they would receive the same criticism as the Jews for doing the same thing.

Total nonsense.

 

[Roudy]

Nice irrelvant propaganda mouthful. But Jews should be allowed to establish a state in their religious, spiritual and cultural homeland in land their ancestors came from. To be against that is what antizionism is, which is simply, the new antisemtism.

 

[Coyote]

The problem is that the Zionist fanatics do not understand that this particular section is dedicated to the Israel/Palestine conflict. So of course every post should be about the Israel/Palestine conflict.

The other problem is that Zionists do not understand that non Jews do not have a different moral compass for Jews. If Jews bombard Gaza and kill thousands, they are treated no differently than Russians when they did the same to Grozny, claiming that the civilian deaths were unintentional. Nor do most non Jews (Christian Zionists excluded) feel that just because they were of the Jewish faith and/or had been oppressed in Europe, they had a right to expropriate the native inhabitants of Palestine.

If the people had been Roma (who also were subjects of extermination by the Nazis) that had expropriated the native inhabitants of Palestine, they would receive the same criticism as the Jews for doing the same thing.

Except that Jews have always lived in Palestine - they ARE one of the native inhabitants.

 

[Coyote]

Nice irrelvant propaganda mouthful. But Jews should be allowed to establish a state in their religious, spiritual and cultural homeland in land their ancestors came from. To be against that is what antizionism is, which is simply, the new antisemtism.

I agree, they should - and part of that is that they have always maintained a presence there. They didn't just up and suddenly appear in the area proclaiming a state. In that sense, they are no different than other groups calling for autonomy in their homeland. So why single them out?

 

[Coyote]

Back to the topic.


There is a dangerous confluence between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism, though the two concepts are not always identical. Anti-Zionism is often used to conceal hatred of Jews. Anti-Semitic views can be easily distinguished from legitimate criticism of Israel.

• Consider the source. Is the speaker someone with a history of anti-Jewish attitudes?
• Critics who habitually single out Israel for condemnation while ignoring far worse actions by other countries (especially other Middle Eastern countries) are anti-Semitic.
• Likening Israel to Nazi Germany, or to traditional anti-Jewish stereotypical behavior is another sure sign of Jew-baiting.
• Attacks on the merits of Israel's existence rather than individual government policies are anti-Semitic.

When approached by a student who attacked Zionism, Dr. Martin Luther King responded: “When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You're talking anti-Semitism.”

(From Seymour Martin Lipset, “The Socialism of Fools—The Left, the Jews and Israel,” Encounter, (December 1969), p. 24.)

Critics who habitually single out Israel for condemnation while ignoring far worse actions by other countries (especially other Middle Eastern countries) are anti-Semitic.​

When a Palestinian was asked why he singled out Israel his response was that Israel was the only country occupying Palestine.

So? What do you want me to say?

Your guy was either an Egyptian or a Jordanian for over 20 years. Then overnight he became a Palestinian.

The same way Jews overnight became Israeli's where before they were Jordanians, Egyptians, Germans, Russians...

 

[montelatici]

An interesting article...

I think the title is 'wrong' however...

I just don't buy into the 'zionist' belief that any word said against the Israeli government and policies is 'anti-semitic'...

If I were to make a negative comment about the South African government, for example, that would not make me a racist...

5 Intellectuals Smash the Anti-Zionism Is Anti-Semitic Argument

It's common sense dude. If your "anti-zionism" involves pushing Israel into the sea or fantasies of them picking up and leaving Israel -- or visions of honor for killing Israeli citizens and innocents -------- THEN it IS anti-Jew and anti Semitic.

Does that about answer the question?

Does it answer the question? Well, yes and no...

Your answer is too 'simplistic' and, if I may say, rather 'extreme'...

Would my criticizing a speech made by Netanyahu, or the continuation of more settlers into the WB be considered anti zionist or anti semitic?

Based upon my belief that the Jews SHOULD have a homeland, have self-determination, I think that rules me out of being an anti zionist.

Based upon my NON hatred of Jews, I have many Jewish friends around the world, I think that rules me out of being an anti semite.

Yet, there are MANY people who have the same beliefs as I do who, like me, get tagged as an anti zionist, anti semite, simply because I don't believe that everything that Israel does is right...

As has already been said in a previous post, it's like walking on eggshells... It seems that ANY negative comment or criticism of Israel WILL lead to that anti zionist/anti semite tag...

I understand your moderate stance. And I certainly appreciate it. But making excuses for MILITANT leadership of the Palestinian cause would certainly void all of that "moderation"... WE don't get to choose the leadership of Israel or Palestine. So you are free to criticize any ONE of the them, but condoning ineffective senseless death and violence in LIEU of meaningful nationalistic planning and LEADERSHIP for the Palis WOULD be very anti-Jewish and anti-semitic.. Because you would be EXCUSING the stated goals of pushing Israel off the map or hardening hearts so as not to negotiate for PROGRESS and peace..

While it would be preferable to arrive at a peaceful solution, what would make you think that the Israelis would move away from their stated goal to expand Israel's borders to what they call Eretz Israel? The Palestinians were never offered full sovereignty even when Likud was out of power. There was never any thought to removing Israeli troops from the West Bank or East Jerusalem. If there is little cost to doing so, Israel intends to maintain control of all the land it now controls one way or another.

Sadly, in every case in the recent past, the occupied/oppressed have always had to put up enough resistance which makes the occupier/oppressor uncomfortable enough to cause him to give serious consideration to relinquishing control. Ireland, Algeria, South Africa, Rhodesia, Kenya, etc.

 

[flacaltenn]

An interesting article...

I think the title is 'wrong' however...

I just don't buy into the 'zionist' belief that any word said against the Israeli government and policies is 'anti-semitic'...

If I were to make a negative comment about the South African government, for example, that would not make me a racist...

5 Intellectuals Smash the Anti-Zionism Is Anti-Semitic Argument

It's common sense dude. If your "anti-zionism" involves pushing Israel into the sea or fantasies of them picking up and leaving Israel -- or visions of honor for killing Israeli citizens and innocents -------- THEN it IS anti-Jew and anti Semitic.

Does that about answer the question?

Does it answer the question? Well, yes and no...

Your answer is too 'simplistic' and, if I may say, rather 'extreme'...

Would my criticizing a speech made by Netanyahu, or the continuation of more settlers into the WB be considered anti zionist or anti semitic?

Based upon my belief that the Jews SHOULD have a homeland, have self-determination, I think that rules me out of being an anti zionist.

Based upon my NON hatred of Jews, I have many Jewish friends around the world, I think that rules me out of being an anti semite.

Yet, there are MANY people who have the same beliefs as I do who, like me, get tagged as an anti zionist, anti semite, simply because I don't believe that everything that Israel does is right...

As has already been said in a previous post, it's like walking on eggshells... It seems that ANY negative comment or criticism of Israel WILL lead to that anti zionist/anti semite tag...

I understand your moderate stance. And I certainly appreciate it. But making excuses for MILITANT leadership of the Palestinian cause would certainly void all of that "moderation"... WE don't get to choose the leadership of Israel or Palestine. So you are free to criticize any ONE of the them, but condoning ineffective senseless death and violence in LIEU of meaningful nationalistic planning and LEADERSHIP for the Palis WOULD be very anti-Jewish and anti-semitic.. Because you would be EXCUSING the stated goals of pushing Israel off the map or hardening hearts so as not to negotiate for PROGRESS and peace..

While it would be preferable to arrive at a peaceful solution, what would make you think that the Israelis would move away from their stated goal to expand Israel's borders to what they call Eretz Israel? The Palestinians were never offered full sovereignty even when Likud was out of power. There was never any thought to removing Israeli troops from the West Bank or East Jerusalem. If there is little cost to doing so, Israel intends to maintain control of all the land it now controls one way or another.

Sadly, in every case in the recent past, the occupied/oppressed have always had to put up enough resistance which makes the occupier/oppressor uncomfortable enough to cause him to give serious consideration to relinquishing control. Ireland, Algeria, South Africa, Rhodesia, Kenya, etc.

This military "expansion" of Israel exists mostly in your head. And NO -- I don't need links. Israel gave back the entire Sinai to Egypt. Negotiated with Jordan and Lebanon and Syria to give back land acquired in the wars.
They want a DEFENDABLE borders. And certainly Jordan and Lebanon could EASILY do some land swaps to REUNITE all of THEIR PALI refugees into a unified plot of land with Israel's help. And close those awful camps..

There are WONDERFUL solutions to creating a Pali homeland if anyone actually cared. But the actions of the Palis don't motivate anyone or any nation to go out of their way to help NATIONALIZE those people.... Because they can't even choose leadership that CARES about being independent and prosperous and a nation...

More importantly.. Folks like the ones we have here who THINK they are helping the Pali Cause by encouraging meaningless Intifadas or talking smack about "Israeli Imperialism" or denying Israel's right to exist ------- are OBLIVIOUS to what peace and independence and self-determination could mean to these "displaced" people..
'

 

[Mindful]

Back to the topic.


There is a dangerous confluence between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism, though the two concepts are not always identical. Anti-Zionism is often used to conceal hatred of Jews. Anti-Semitic views can be easily distinguished from legitimate criticism of Israel.

• Consider the source. Is the speaker someone with a history of anti-Jewish attitudes?
• Critics who habitually single out Israel for condemnation while ignoring far worse actions by other countries (especially other Middle Eastern countries) are anti-Semitic.
• Likening Israel to Nazi Germany, or to traditional anti-Jewish stereotypical behavior is another sure sign of Jew-baiting.
• Attacks on the merits of Israel's existence rather than individual government policies are anti-Semitic.

When approached by a student who attacked Zionism, Dr. Martin Luther King responded: “When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You're talking anti-Semitism.”

(From Seymour Martin Lipset, “The Socialism of Fools—The Left, the Jews and Israel,” Encounter, (December 1969), p. 24.)

Critics who habitually single out Israel for condemnation while ignoring far worse actions by other countries (especially other Middle Eastern countries) are anti-Semitic.​

When a Palestinian was asked why he singled out Israel his response was that Israel was the only country occupying Palestine.

So? What do you want me to say?

Your guy was either an Egyptian or a Jordanian for over 20 years. Then overnight he became a Palestinian.

The same way Jews overnight became Israeli's where before they were Jordanians, Egyptians, Germans, Russians...

70,000 Mandatory Palestine passports were issued between 1924 and 1948. Issued by the High Commissioner for Palestine.

These passports became invalid with the termination of the British mandate on 15 May 1948. Israelis and Palestinians still keep them as interesting keepsakes, but they are worthless.

If individuals living there had British parents, their passports would be British, with all its rights and privileges.

 

[Mindful]

An interesting article...

I think the title is 'wrong' however...

I just don't buy into the 'zionist' belief that any word said against the Israeli government and policies is 'anti-semitic'...

If I were to make a negative comment about the South African government, for example, that would not make me a racist...

5 Intellectuals Smash the Anti-Zionism Is Anti-Semitic Argument

It's common sense dude. If your "anti-zionism" involves pushing Israel into the sea or fantasies of them picking up and leaving Israel -- or visions of honor for killing Israeli citizens and innocents -------- THEN it IS anti-Jew and anti Semitic.

Does that about answer the question?

Does it answer the question? Well, yes and no...

Your answer is too 'simplistic' and, if I may say, rather 'extreme'...

Would my criticizing a speech made by Netanyahu, or the continuation of more settlers into the WB be considered anti zionist or anti semitic?

Based upon my belief that the Jews SHOULD have a homeland, have self-determination, I think that rules me out of being an anti zionist.

Based upon my NON hatred of Jews, I have many Jewish friends around the world, I think that rules me out of being an anti semite.

Yet, there are MANY people who have the same beliefs as I do who, like me, get tagged as an anti zionist, anti semite, simply because I don't believe that everything that Israel does is right...

As has already been said in a previous post, it's like walking on eggshells... It seems that ANY negative comment or criticism of Israel WILL lead to that anti zionist/anti semite tag...

I understand your moderate stance. And I certainly appreciate it. But making excuses for MILITANT leadership of the Palestinian cause would certainly void all of that "moderation"... WE don't get to choose the leadership of Israel or Palestine. So you are free to criticize any ONE of the them, but condoning ineffective senseless death and violence in LIEU of meaningful nationalistic planning and LEADERSHIP for the Palis WOULD be very anti-Jewish and anti-semitic.. Because you would be EXCUSING the stated goals of pushing Israel off the map or hardening hearts so as not to negotiate for PROGRESS and peace..

While it would be preferable to arrive at a peaceful solution, what would make you think that the Israelis would move away from their stated goal to expand Israel's borders to what they call Eretz Israel? The Palestinians were never offered full sovereignty even when Likud was out of power. There was never any thought to removing Israeli troops from the West Bank or East Jerusalem. If there is little cost to doing so, Israel intends to maintain control of all the land it now controls one way or another.

Sadly, in every case in the recent past, the occupied/oppressed have always had to put up enough resistance which makes the occupier/oppressor uncomfortable enough to cause him to give serious consideration to relinquishing control. Ireland, Algeria, South Africa, Rhodesia, Kenya, etc.

This military "expansion" of Israel exists mostly in your head. And NO -- I don't need links. Israel gave back the entire Sinai to Egypt. Negotiated with Jordan and Lebanon and Syria to give back land acquired in the wars.
They want a DEFENDABLE borders. And certainly Jordan and Lebanon could EASILY do some land swaps to REUNITE all of THEIR PALI refugees into a unified plot of land with Israel's help. And close those awful camps..

There are WONDERFUL solutions to creating a Pali homeland if anyone actually cared. But the actions of the Palis don't motivate anyone or any nation to go out of their way to help NATIONALIZE those people.... Because they can't even choose leadership that CARES about being independent and prosperous and a nation...

More importantly.. Folks like the ones we have here who THINK they are helping the Pali Cause by encouraging meaningless Intifadas or talking smack about "Israeli Imperialism" or denying Israel's right to exist ------- are OBLIVIOUS to what peace and independence and self-determination could mean to these "displaced" people..
'

Egypt didn't want Gaza back. But they had previously only administered it. And Jordan didn't want the WB. Those territories not having been incorporated into Jordan proper, following war after independence of Israel.

 

[Mindful]

An interesting article...

I think the title is 'wrong' however...

I just don't buy into the 'zionist' belief that any word said against the Israeli government and policies is 'anti-semitic'...

If I were to make a negative comment about the South African government, for example, that would not make me a racist...

5 Intellectuals Smash the Anti-Zionism Is Anti-Semitic Argument

It's common sense dude. If your "anti-zionism" involves pushing Israel into the sea or fantasies of them picking up and leaving Israel -- or visions of honor for killing Israeli citizens and innocents -------- THEN it IS anti-Jew and anti Semitic.

Does that about answer the question?

Does it answer the question? Well, yes and no...

Your answer is too 'simplistic' and, if I may say, rather 'extreme'...

Would my criticizing a speech made by Netanyahu, or the continuation of more settlers into the WB be considered anti zionist or anti semitic?

Based upon my belief that the Jews SHOULD have a homeland, have self-determination, I think that rules me out of being an anti zionist.

Based upon my NON hatred of Jews, I have many Jewish friends around the world, I think that rules me out of being an anti semite.

Yet, there are MANY people who have the same beliefs as I do who, like me, get tagged as an anti zionist, anti semite, simply because I don't believe that everything that Israel does is right...

As has already been said in a previous post, it's like walking on eggshells... It seems that ANY negative comment or criticism of Israel WILL lead to that anti zionist/anti semite tag...

I understand your moderate stance. And I certainly appreciate it. But making excuses for MILITANT leadership of the Palestinian cause would certainly void all of that "moderation"... WE don't get to choose the leadership of Israel or Palestine. So you are free to criticize any ONE of the them, but condoning ineffective senseless death and violence in LIEU of meaningful nationalistic planning and LEADERSHIP for the Palis WOULD be very anti-Jewish and anti-semitic.. Because you would be EXCUSING the stated goals of pushing Israel off the map or hardening hearts so as not to negotiate for PROGRESS and peace..

While it would be preferable to arrive at a peaceful solution, what would make you think that the Israelis would move away from their stated goal to expand Israel's borders to what they call Eretz Israel? The Palestinians were never offered full sovereignty even when Likud was out of power. There was never any thought to removing Israeli troops from the West Bank or East Jerusalem. If there is little cost to doing so, Israel intends to maintain control of all the land it now controls one way or another.

Sadly, in every case in the recent past, the occupied/oppressed have always had to put up enough resistance which makes the occupier/oppressor uncomfortable enough to cause him to give serious consideration to relinquishing control. Ireland, Algeria, South Africa, Rhodesia, Kenya, etc.

This military "expansion" of Israel exists mostly in your head. And NO -- I don't need links. Israel gave back the entire Sinai to Egypt. Negotiated with Jordan and Lebanon and Syria to give back land acquired in the wars.
They want a DEFENDABLE borders. And certainly Jordan and Lebanon could EASILY do some land swaps to REUNITE all of THEIR PALI refugees into a unified plot of land with Israel's help. And close those awful camps..

There are WONDERFUL solutions to creating a Pali homeland if anyone actually cared. But the actions of the Palis don't motivate anyone or any nation to go out of their way to help NATIONALIZE those people.... Because they can't even choose leadership that CARES about being independent and prosperous and a nation...

More importantly.. Folks like the ones we have here who THINK they are helping the Pali Cause by encouraging meaningless Intifadas or talking smack about "Israeli Imperialism" or denying Israel's right to exist ------- are OBLIVIOUS to what peace and independence and self-determination could mean to these "displaced" people..
'

You can blame Arafat for all that. After he rejected the Camp David accords and therefore initiated the intifada.

The first offer being rejected in 1948.

 

[montelatici]

The problem is that the Zionist fanatics do not understand that this particular section is dedicated to the Israel/Palestine conflict. So of course every post should be about the Israel/Palestine conflict.

The other problem is that Zionists do not understand that non Jews do not have a different moral compass for Jews. If Jews bombard Gaza and kill thousands, they are treated no differently than Russians when they did the same to Grozny, claiming that the civilian deaths were unintentional. Nor do most non Jews (Christian Zionists excluded) feel that just because they were of the Jewish faith and/or had been oppressed in Europe, they had a right to expropriate the native inhabitants of Palestine.

If the people had been Roma (who also were subjects of extermination by the Nazis) that had expropriated the native inhabitants of Palestine, they would receive the same criticism as the Jews for doing the same thing.

Except that Jews have always lived in Palestine - they ARE one of the native inhabitants.

Let's get our definitions straight. An Inuit that converts to Judaism becomes a Jew. An Inuit is not a native inhabitant of Palestine likewise a European that converts to Judaism is a Jew but not a native of Palestine.

There were a "handful" of native inhabitants prior to 1850 that had not converted to the Roman religions, Christianity and Islam through the years. These few followers of Judaism were native inhabitants, they were Arab Jews, they spoke Arabic and were culturally Arabs.

Not Europeans from Spain, Portugal, Germany, Russia, Poland, North Africa etc.

Conversely, native inhabitants of Palestine that changed religion through the ages did not magically become foreigners, just as native americans that adopted Christianity (or Judaism), for example, did not lose their status as native inhabitants of the americas.

 

[Coyote]

The problem is that the Zionist fanatics do not understand that this particular section is dedicated to the Israel/Palestine conflict. So of course every post should be about the Israel/Palestine conflict.

The other problem is that Zionists do not understand that non Jews do not have a different moral compass for Jews. If Jews bombard Gaza and kill thousands, they are treated no differently than Russians when they did the same to Grozny, claiming that the civilian deaths were unintentional. Nor do most non Jews (Christian Zionists excluded) feel that just because they were of the Jewish faith and/or had been oppressed in Europe, they had a right to expropriate the native inhabitants of Palestine.

If the people had been Roma (who also were subjects of extermination by the Nazis) that had expropriated the native inhabitants of Palestine, they would receive the same criticism as the Jews for doing the same thing.

Except that Jews have always lived in Palestine - they ARE one of the native inhabitants.

Let's get our definitions straight. An Inuit that converts to Judaism becomes a Jew. An Inuit is not a native inhabitant of Palestine likewise a European that converts to Judaism is a Jew but not a native of Palestine.

There were a "handful" of native inhabitants prior to 1850 that had not converted to the Roman religions, Christianity and Islam through the years. These few followers of Judaism were native inhabitants, they were Arab Jews, they spoke Arabic and were culturally Arabs.

Not Europeans from Spain, Portugal, Germany, Russia, Poland, North Africa etc.

Conversely, native inhabitants of Palestine that changed religion through the ages did not magically become foreigners, just as native americans that adopted Christianity (or Judaism), for example, did not lose their status as native inhabitants of the americas.

Who are the indginous inhabitants of Palestine? They are a mixture of peoples who have been there for thousands of years that include the Jews as well as the remnants of other peoples from those times. Those same people have had mixtures of later people's who came in via subsequent migrations, religious conversions etc. The end result is a native Palestinian population that includes Jews, Muslims, Christians, Druze, Samaritans, and others. In addition to Jewish immigration from Europe, there was Arab immigration from surrounding countries.

So...who is indiginous? Where do you draw the line?

I agree - if an indiginous person converts to a different religion, he is still that same person.

If an Inuit moves to Florida - does he lose his identity as an Inuit?