Anti-Vegan "Sausage Expert" Doesn't Know the Difference

[buttercup]

I will stick with meat as my primary source of protein thank you. I have nothing against vegans and true vegetarians only their radical beliefs that it is I that needs to conform to their chosen lifestyle.
I have yet to meet a Dr that is a true vegan or vegetarian, have you?

There are lots of vegan doctors. I follow a few on YouTube. Here are just a few:

Dr. Pamela Popper: https://www.youtube.com/@drpamsnewschannel/featured
Dr. Michael Greger: https://www.youtube.com/@NutritionFactsOrg
Dr. Neal Barnard: https://www.youtube.com/@PhysiciansCommittee/videos
Dr. Joel Kahn: https://www. drjoelkahn.com
Dr. Milton Mills: Dr.Milton Mills – Plant Based Nation
Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn
Dr. T. Colin Campbell

 

[fncceo]

 

[hadit]

You're reminding me of one of those people who say Christians are bad because they share their message. I'm sure you've heard people say, "why not be more like Jews or Hindus or Buddhists who don't try to convert others?" But in response to what you said, it's not at all about a lack in their lives. Veganism isn't about diet. That's just one part of it. It's about not wanting animals to be exploited and harmed needlessly. Is that such a bad thing?

Of course, it's not a negative thing to be kind to animals. Jesus Himself used a shepherd's love for a lost lamb to illustrate His love for His people, and it's a beautiful illustration. But you mentioned exploitation. Consider that Jesus knew those same sheep were exploited for what they produced and were valuable to the shepherd as long as they produced such things as milk, wool, skin, and meat. A shepherd did not care for his flock simply because he loved them, but also because they produced things that were critically important for him and his family, and Jesus never spoke out against that.

Would vegans eat meat, wear leather or sleep on down pillows if they knew the animals were not mistreated?

 

[Blues Man]

Wait, are you suggesting things like "beyond" and "impossible" are healthier?

You need to think again...

Beyond Meat Review: Why We Don't Think It's Healthy

We analyze the ingredients in Beyond Burger and Beyond Breakfast Sausage to explain why we don't consider the popular vegan meat alternatives to be healthy. We highlight an exposé that found a Beyond Meat factory to be contaminated with mold.

illuminatelabs.org

You are missing the point.

Vegans never claim that ALL vegan food is healthier. The point is no animals need be made to suffer and die just so a human can eat a sausage.

 

[Uncensored2008]

You are missing the point.

Vegans never claim that ALL vegan food is healthier. The point is no animals need be made to suffer and die just so a human can eat a sausage.

I see.

I am a predator. I eat other animals. The bond we humans have with dogs is that of fellow, symbiotic predators.

Prey will die so that I can eat steak, sausage, hamburger, etc.

 

[hadit]

You are missing the point.

Vegans never claim that ALL vegan food is healthier. The point is no animals need be made to suffer and die just so a human can eat a sausage.

Now, being a little cantakarous in my old age, I'll throw this out. Do you know what a farmer does in order to produce the crops necessary for the vegan (or vegetarian) diet?

First, the land must be stripped of its trees. All trees are cut down and the animals that depended on them for food and shelter are displaced or killed.
Second, the natural grasses that grow on the land are stripped away. This is done via a plow that reaches down into the ground, rips everything up and turns it over. This kills or destroys the homes of any moles, voles, mice, squirrels, prairie dogs, etc. that are living in the grasses.
Third, the land is planted with a (human) food crop. This crop is not, however, intended for animal consumption. Instead, any animals that would see the field as an easily accessed and nutritious food source are denied access and sometimes forcibly removed.
Fourth, local water sources are tapped to provide the crops with irrigation. This alters streams, lakes, rivers and the local water table, disrupting many habitats.
Fifth, the growing crops are sprayed with herbicide and insecticide to prevent other plants from competing with them for sunlight and water, as well as to prevent bugs from eating the crops and drawing other animals to the area. These are not harmless to the animals who sneak in and consume the growing crops.

It was not too long ago that a farmer would shoot and kill herbivores, deer and rabbits for example, who were drawn to his fields, not wanting to lose any of his crops. Ultimately, the vegan and vegetarian diets put humans into competition with the very animals they claim to help. And who takes the prize land that produces the most food? Who takes the most easily accessed water to spray on the crops?

My point is not to belittle those who choose to eat vegetarian or vegan, it is to raise awareness that doing so is not necessarily animal friendly. While it is true that you are not directly killing an animal in order to eat it, saying that no animals suffer or die so you can eat is false because in fact, many do. The bottom line remains that we are in constant competition with animals for food and shelter, as is all of nature.

 

[buttercup]

Of course, it's not a negative thing to be kind to animals. Jesus Himself used a shepherd's love for a lost lamb to illustrate His love for His people, and it's a beautiful illustration.

It's not only His love for people. That's a very anthropocentric point of view. God loves ALL that He created. Psalm 145:9 and numerous other scriptures show that... not to mention God's character, which is love and mercy.

But you mentioned exploitation. Consider that Jesus knew those same sheep were exploited for what they produced and were valuable to the shepherd as long as they produced such things as milk, wool, skin, and meat. A shepherd did not care for his flock simply because he loved them, but also because they produced things that were critically important for him and his family, and Jesus never spoke out against that.

Would vegans eat meat, wear leather or sleep on down pillows if they knew the animals were not mistreated?

That's a non sequitur, because unless we're talking about lab grown meat, you cannot get meat without doing something that is inhumane. Taking what is most precious to someone (their very life) against their will just so you can eat their flesh is inherently cruel and selfish, when it is completely unnecessary.

That's why in Genesis 1:29-30 God gave all creation a diet of food from the earth, not flesh. That was God's intent for creation, and I firmly believe it still is. The prophetic scriptures about how God will restore that peaceable kingdom He created in the first place show that God's perfect will did not change. (God does not change, so it makes sense that His perfect will never changed.) But very few people seem to care, because no one wants to give up their steak, hamburgers and bacon.

 

[Blues Man]

I see.

I am a predator. I eat other animals. The bond we humans have with dogs is that of fellow, symbiotic predators.

Prey will die so that I can eat steak, sausage, hamburger, etc.

Yeah predators don't buy their meat at a grocery store.

And if you eat cows, pigs and chickens why not eat dogs, horses and cats?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Yeah predators don't buy their meat at a grocery store.

And if you eat cows, pigs and chickens why not eat dogs, horses and cats?

If I buy meat in a grocery store, animals still die.

I don't eat fellow predators.

Horses are not efficient as a food source.

One of the most efficient meat sources is Rabbit, but a silly cartoon got America to stop raising and eating this excellent meat.

 

[Blues Man]

If I buy meat in a grocery store, animals still die.

I don't eat fellow predators.

Horses are not efficient as a food source.

One of the most efficient meat sources is Rabbit, but a silly cartoon got America to stop raising and eating this excellent meat.

You are not a predator you are a scavenger you eat the kills of others.

And horses are no less efficient than cows

 

[Uncensored2008]

You are not a predator you are a scavenger you eat the kills of others.

And horses are no less efficient than cows

Horses are far less efficient than cows. Both species have been manipulated for specific uses.

 

[Anathema]

The TOPIC is, the fat old fart CANT TELL THE DIFFERENCE

Whether I can tell the difference or not is immaterial. Just as the healthiness of the product is immaterial.

What is material is that these probate NOT meat. I grew up in a nest and PTO family. Veggies were a side dish, not a main course. That’s where they belong. MEAT belongs at the center of the plate.

 

[hadit]

It's not only His love for people. That's a very anthropocentric point of view. God loves ALL that He created. Psalm 145:9 and numerous other scriptures show that... not to mention God's character, which is love and mercy.



That's a non sequitur, because unless we're talking about lab grown meat, you cannot get meat without doing something that is inhumane. Taking what is most precious to someone (their very life) against their will just so you can eat their flesh is inherently cruel and selfish, when it is completely unnecessary.

That's why in Genesis 1:29-30 God gave all creation a diet of food from the earth, not flesh. That was God's intent for creation, and I firmly believe it still is. The prophetic scriptures about how God will restore that peaceable kingdom He created in the first place show that God's perfect will did not change. (God does not change, so it makes sense that His perfect will never changed.) But very few people seem to care, because no one wants to give up their steak, hamburgers and bacon.

That is a valid viewpoint and one worth seriously considering.

 

[buttercup]

That is a valid viewpoint and one worth seriously considering.

Thank you, and I have to say, your reply is truly a breath of fresh air around here. If there's one thing that's disappointing and shows a small mind, imo, is when people immediately attack or reject something before doing any sincere research or putting any thought into it. (The bible calls that type of mindset a 'folly' and a 'shame', in Proverbs 18:13.) Btw, I have a YouTube channel and website devoted to this topic. I'll send you the link.

 

[notmyfault2020]

You're reminding me of one of those people who say Christians are bad because they share their message. I'm sure you've heard people say, "why not be more like Jews or Hindus or Buddhists who don't try to convert others?" But in response to what you said, it's not at all about a lack in their lives. Veganism isn't about diet. That's just one part of it. It's about not wanting animals to be exploited and harmed needlessly. Is that such a bad thing?

well, humans need animal protein to be healthy, esp growing children, lactating or pregnant women and then probably also t he elderly

Vegans do not live long. God is trying to tell them something but alas.. who listens to Him?

 

[buttercup]

well, humans need animal protein to be healthy, esp growing children, lactating or pregnant women and then probably also t he elderly

Vegans do not live long. God is trying to tell them something but alas.. who listens to Him?

Wrong on EVERY count. I mean not just wrong, but blatantly, hilariously wrong.

Position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics​

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It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes. Plant-based diets are more environmentally sustainable than diets rich in animal products because they use fewer natural resources and are associated with much less environmental damage. Vegetarians and vegans are at reduced risk of certain health conditions, including ischemic heart disease, type 2 diabetes, hypertension, certain types of cancer, and obesity.​

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The Mayo Clinic​

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A well-planned vegetarian diet (see context) can meet the needs of people of all ages, including children, teenagers, and pregnant or breast-feeding women. The key is to be aware of your nutritional needs so that you plan a diet that meets them.​

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Harvard Medical School​

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Traditionally, research into vegetarianism focused mainly on potential nutritional deficiencies, but in recent years, the pendulum has swung the other way, and studies are confirming the health benefits of meat-free eating. Nowadays, plant-based eating is recognized as not only nutritionally sufficient but also as a way to reduce the risk for many chronic illnesses.​

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Dietitians of Canada​

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A healthy vegan diet can meet all your nutrient needs at any stage of life including when you are pregnant, breastfeeding or for older adults.​

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British Dietetic Association​

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Well planned vegetarian diets (see context) can be nutritious and healthy. They are associated with lower risks of heart disease, high blood pressure, Type 2 diabetes, obesity, certain cancers and lower cholesterol levels. This could be because such diets are lower in saturated fat, contain fewer calories and more fiber and phytonutrients/phytochemicals (these can have protective properties) than non-vegetarian diets. (...) Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of life and have many benefits.​

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The British National Health Service​

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With good planning and an understanding of what makes up a healthy, balanced vegan diet, you can get all the nutrients your body needs.​

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The Dietitians Association of Australia​

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Vegan diets differ to other vegetarian diets in that no animal products are consumed or used. Despite these restrictions, with good planning it is still possible to obtain all the nutrients required for good health on a vegan diet.​

Vegans do not live long.

That is flat out false. I mean, really, you must not get out much. I know of plenty of vegans who lived very long lives, and not only that but were still active and healthy, up until their last days. For example, Dr. Ellsworth Wareham, who worked until he was 95.




Furthermore, one of the world's "blue zones" (places with the highest rates of centenarians) is Loma Linda, California, which is known for being a community with a lot of Seventh Day Adventist vegetarians. You are simply wrong, in everything you said.

And lastly....

God is trying to tell them something but alas.. who listens to Him?

Yes, God IS trying to tell us something. In Genesis 1:29, which was His intent for mankind (and still is!) when He clearly gave us a peaceful, non-violent plantbased diet. AND in the prophetic scriptures like Isaiah 11:6-9 that show God is going to restore that Edenic peaceful world that was HIS idea in the first place.

AND the tons and tons and tons of scriptures that command us to be MERCIFUL, kind, gentle, at peace with others and to treat others the way we want to be treated (which includes the animals, because God includes the animals in His love and mercy.)

Here's a playlist of videos for you to watch. Enjoy!