Anti-Semitism Explained

[Pennywise]

The "final solution" was not extermination but expulsion, but nobody would take the Jews. If the death of every Jew was the plan, the Nazis could have taken care of that rather easily, and without having to house and feed a bunch of walking corpses for years.

Logic is no friend to Agneda Boyz though.

 

[dreolin]

Never known a Jew that didn't have sexual disfunction and transfer that onto others.


There never would have been any death camps if the Jews had and courage when it was needed. No one can FORCE you to be a coward.

Two of the most ignorant things I have ever read on a message board..... and in the same post!

congratulations!

Truth sucks ...don't it.

Apparently, you don't like it.

 

[dreolin]

For as long as the church teaches that the bible is to be interpreted literally it is only a matter of time before another genius of great faith comes along and reads Luke 19:27 and decides that it is a religious duty to kill Jews.

"But as for those enemies of mine who would not have me as their king, bring them here and slaughter them in my presence."

That isn't the context, Hobelim. It is also speaking about future..

cut the crap Chuck. The verse is clear. If you think there will be a time in the future when its OK to slaughter Jews literally then you are just a future Nazi.

did you ever consider that Jesus was trying to convey something sublime about the subject of ritual slaughter??

Jesus and his disciples were Jews.

It was a parable.

 

[dreolin]

Except my dad fought in World War II. My neighbor fought in World War II. My Foster Dad fought in World War II. My neighbors were Jews from Auschwitz and they showed me their serial numbers tattooed on their arms.

My Foster Dad told me not to believe Holocaust deniers. They saw it with their own eyes.

Seems like just about everyone claims to have known a jew with a work camp tattoo on their arm.

Which basically proves the German's weren't out to exterminate the jews because there are soo many work camp survivors.


Yes, the jews were rounded up and placed into work camps.

No, there wasn't a genocidal plan of gassing jews.

Why don't you visit the ovens and see for yourself instead of believing what is told you.

Back when I was going to college, Holocaust deniers started making the news and then my college decided to throw out some books on the Holocaust. I happened to rescue them because they were marked "free books".

I live near trains that have a horn and I was playing a remake of Space Invaders and I made the eerie connection about what the game was really about.

Everyone else made the connection by making movies with apocalyptic themes because World War II made the end times more believable.

I don't think you can object to those who throw out library books about the Holocaust and yet agree with laws that forbid the discussion of it.

Both are wrong.

 

[dreolin]

One advantage of a 14 year-old computer is a 14 year-old Texts Directory with all my scribblings from over the years. Consequently this post. And while I don't expect slobbering anti-semites to read it and think "Oh wow, how wrong I've been!" I figure some will benefit from it.

It occurs that rather than argue with every antisemitic poster in every thread I should just post some info from actual Jewish and Zionist sources revealing our positions. Not that I believe truth can combat hate, but it might prove helpful for some of the fence-sitters. First, let's explain a bit about the Jewish view of non-Jews since that comes up rather a lot:

It seems rather obvious to me that the basis for anti-Semitism for at least the past few thousand years has been the refusal for religious or even secular Jews as a whole to accept the Christian claim that Jesus is God or that God is a trinity. According to church dogma any such person is anathema and deserving of any consequent suffering according to the will of God defined by their perverse, ignorant, and superstitious interpretations of scripture even though such refusal to worship false gods in the face of unspeakable suffering is obedience to the will of God, righteous, according to those same scriptures.

one cannot stop anti-Semitism by trying to show how nice Jews can be to the ones who hate them, you must show how they have always been right to prefer death and suffering remaining faithful to God rather than trade their birthright for a life of pretense and comfortable fellowship with the insane who worship some imaginary roman triune mangod that never existed.

I think the basis for anti-semitism has been simple envy rather than the religious dogma often used to justify it. For example in Poland Jewish villages were the most prosperous. The Jews were more able and hard working than the sometimes idle and drunken Poles. The Poles who killed Jews did not have the doctrine of the Trinity at thr forefront of their minds.

The tendency of Jews to rise to the top continues. Contrast a prosperous Israel with the dreadful Arab lands which surround it.

Well, that was a pretty racist thing to say.

It is statements like that that encourage anti-Semitism.

I am very proud of my Irish heritage but it does not make me superior to others.

I have absolutly no problem with someone being prod of being Jewish. I have every problem with anyone being arrogant.

 

[dreolin]

That many Holocaust deniers are Muslim shouldn't come as a surprise when their role in the Holocaust is undeniable.

Atlas Shrugs: Mufti of Jerusalem: Islam's Role in the Holocaust

Muslims get enough grief as it is without most knowing about their assistance to the Nazis during the Holocaust.

The muslims contribution to the Axis efforts during WWII was extremely small compared to the scope of the global conflict.

In fact, it was the predominately Christian nation of Germany, and the Catholic country of Italy, that rounded up the Jews and placed them in harsh labor camps where many died due to over work, starvation, and disease.

Not the muslims. ....

Right about now I am beginning to question whether I went to Vietnam to fight people because they were Buddhist or becaise they were Asians.

And all this time, I thought it was way more complicated than that.

 

[dreolin]

Someone wake me up when the debate between Iceman and Roudy is over.

 

[Peterf]

First death camp was built in 1933. And anti-Jewish laws existed since well before that. Wasn't any big surprise to the Allies. The cynic in me thinks when American troops finally blundered into one on accident, American politicians were finally forced to acknowledge and condemn them. But as you point out, turning Jewish refuges away certainly doesn't win any popularity prizes here. I wont go so far as to say America wanted the Jews exterminated, but I don't think they were in any great rush to come to their aid.

Anti-semitism was rife in our country during that time and I'm guessing that combined with an unwillingness to believe what was being reported (and national trend towards isolationism) all worked together. Turning away Jewish refugees, along with interning Americans of Japanese ancestry represent one of the most shameful periods in our modern history. My father told me a story of a reporter he once knew who was able to sneak into one of the camps and sneak out, and when he testified before Congress on what was going on - no one believed it was that bad.

There is so so so much documentation on the holocaust - first hand witness accounts, documents, photographs - it's hard to understand how something like Holocast denial manages to gain a footing. That's the thing with conspiracy theories

I too find holocaust denial strange. But many believe what they want to believe regardless of evidence and reason.

This capacity for blind belief accounts for the survival of religion into the scientific age.

 

[Iceman]

First death camp was built in 1933. And anti-Jewish laws existed since well before that. Wasn't any big surprise to the Allies. The cynic in me thinks when American troops finally blundered into one on accident, American politicians were finally forced to acknowledge and condemn them. But as you point out, turning Jewish refuges away certainly doesn't win any popularity prizes here. I wont go so far as to say America wanted the Jews exterminated, but I don't think they were in any great rush to come to their aid.

Anti-semitism was rife in our country during that time and I'm guessing that combined with an unwillingness to believe what was being reported (and national trend towards isolationism) all worked together. Turning away Jewish refugees, along with interning Americans of Japanese ancestry represent one of the most shameful periods in our modern history. My father told me a story of a reporter he once knew who was able to sneak into one of the camps and sneak out, and when he testified before Congress on what was going on - no one believed it was that bad.

There is so so so much documentation on the holocaust - first hand witness accounts, documents, photographs - it's hard to understand how something like Holocast denial manages to gain a footing. That's the thing with conspiracy theories

I too find holocaust denial strange. But many believe what they want to believe regardless of evidence and reason.

This capacity for blind belief accounts for the survival of religion into the scientific age.

The Holocaust is the modern Jewish religion. It is the foundation of their modern victimhood cult, that they use to perpetuate their ethnic supremacy.

 

[Peterf]

Anti-semitism was rife in our country during that time and I'm guessing that combined with an unwillingness to believe what was being reported (and national trend towards isolationism) all worked together. Turning away Jewish refugees, along with interning Americans of Japanese ancestry represent one of the most shameful periods in our modern history. My father told me a story of a reporter he once knew who was able to sneak into one of the camps and sneak out, and when he testified before Congress on what was going on - no one believed it was that bad.

There is so so so much documentation on the holocaust - first hand witness accounts, documents, photographs - it's hard to understand how something like Holocast denial manages to gain a footing. That's the thing with conspiracy theories

I too find holocaust denial strange. But many believe what they want to believe regardless of evidence and reason.

This capacity for blind belief accounts for the survival of religion into the scientific age.

The Holocaust is the modern Jewish religion. It is the foundation of their modern victimhood cult, that they use to perpetuate their ethnic supremacy.

IYWO - that means in your warped opinion. Anyway, thank you for providing an excellent example of someone believing what he wants to believe, regardless of evidence or reason.

 

[Iceman]

I too find holocaust denial strange. But many believe what they want to believe regardless of evidence and reason.

This capacity for blind belief accounts for the survival of religion into the scientific age.

The Holocaust is the modern Jewish religion. It is the foundation of their modern victimhood cult, that they use to perpetuate their ethnic supremacy.

IYWO - that means in your warped opinion. Anyway, thank you for providing an excellent example of someone believing what he wants to believe, regardless of evidence or reason.

Evidence of what? What evidence? I have yet to see any.

 

[hobelim]

That isn't the context, Hobelim. It is also speaking about future..

cut the crap Chuck. The verse is clear. If you think there will be a time in the future when its OK to slaughter Jews literally then you are just a future Nazi.

did you ever consider that Jesus was trying to convey something sublime about the subject of ritual slaughter??

Jesus and his disciples were Jews.

It was a parable.

exactly.

If the command to bring them here and slaughter them in my presence is not about literally slaughtering Jews then the laws that regulate ritual slaughter are not about literally slaughtering farm animals and if the command to eat his flesh is not about cannibalism then the dietary laws are also not about what you eat for dinner.

Jesus and his disciples were Jews.

Sheep and goats, snakes, vultures, wolves, dogs, swine, worms, angels, demons, the living and the dead, Satan and the son of God are all metaphors that Jesus himself used to describe people who represent the heights and depths of human potential whether heavenly beings or lower beasts.

slaughtering those who would not have him for their king, exactly like slaughtering a he-goat 'without blemish' for the expiation of sin, trimming the meat from the fat, etc. is about showing where right and wrong and judgment lie, proving them wrong for their refusal to believe in Jesus, convincing them that right was on his side, and convincing them about divine judgment as described in john 16:8-

 

[hobelim]

First death camp was built in 1933. And anti-Jewish laws existed since well before that. Wasn't any big surprise to the Allies. The cynic in me thinks when American troops finally blundered into one on accident, American politicians were finally forced to acknowledge and condemn them. But as you point out, turning Jewish refuges away certainly doesn't win any popularity prizes here. I wont go so far as to say America wanted the Jews exterminated, but I don't think they were in any great rush to come to their aid.

Anti-semitism was rife in our country during that time and I'm guessing that combined with an unwillingness to believe what was being reported (and national trend towards isolationism) all worked together. Turning away Jewish refugees, along with interning Americans of Japanese ancestry represent one of the most shameful periods in our modern history. My father told me a story of a reporter he once knew who was able to sneak into one of the camps and sneak out, and when he testified before Congress on what was going on - no one believed it was that bad.

There is so so so much documentation on the holocaust - first hand witness accounts, documents, photographs - it's hard to understand how something like Holocast denial manages to gain a footing. That's the thing with conspiracy theories

I too find holocaust denial strange. But many believe what they want to believe regardless of evidence and reason.

This capacity for blind belief accounts for the survival of religion into the scientific age.

But what accounts for this blind belief in otherwise intelligent people if it is not a sign of divine condemnation?

Is it even possible for those who maintain irrational beliefs that are contradicted by reality to know the joy and fullness of life only possible when what you believe conforms to and is confirmed by reality?

 

[Coyote]

The "final solution" was not extermination but expulsion, but nobody would take the Jews. If the death of every Jew was the plan, the Nazis could have taken care of that rather easily, and without having to house and feed a bunch of walking corpses for years.

Logic is no friend to Agneda Boyz though.

Whatever the "final solution" was - it resulted in the deaths - HORRIBLE deaths - of millions of innocent ordinary people - men, women, and children. And it was done deliberately and methodically and heartlessly. It resulted in the most abusive and horrifying and brutal medical experiments performed on children and adults- cold bloodedly and clinically. They could have simply let them go once they realized no one would "take them" but they didn't - they chose treat them like animals in a slaughter house - no, correct that - in ways that are illegal to treat animals.

The "final solution" - whatever was "intended" became all of the above and it was done with deliberate thought - people who worked in those camps DID things knowing what they were doing.

I can't understand people who attempt to somehow soften this - this is so much photographic evidence, accounts of surivors, documentation - not to mention corpses- it's surreal.

Someone in this thread mentioned they oppose the Holocaust Denial laws, and I do also but not so much because it should be open for discussion and re-interpretation (though anything should) but because making it illegal drives it underground - it "legitimizes" that view in the eyes of it's adherents and allows them to claim a sort of victimhood and persecution identity that gathers steam underground, like most conspiracy theories. Being able to openly refute it is like exposing it to sunlight. Any hate speech is like that - driving it underground gives it power.

 

[dreolin]

The "final solution" was not extermination but expulsion, but nobody would take the Jews. If the death of every Jew was the plan, the Nazis could have taken care of that rather easily, and without having to house and feed a bunch of walking corpses for years.

Logic is no friend to Agneda Boyz though.

Whatever the "final solution" was - it resulted in the deaths - HORRIBLE deaths - of millions of innocent ordinary people - men, women, and children. And it was done deliberately and methodically and heartlessly. It resulted in the most abusive and horrifying and brutal medical experiments performed on children and adults- cold bloodedly and clinically. They could have simply let them go once they realized no one would "take them" but they didn't - they chose treat them like animals in a slaughter house - no, correct that - in ways that are illegal to treat animals.

The "final solution" - whatever was "intended" became all of the above and it was done with deliberate thought - people who worked in those camps DID things knowing what they were doing.

I can't understand people who attempt to somehow soften this - this is so much photographic evidence, accounts of surivors, documentation - not to mention corpses- it's surreal.

Someone in this thread mentioned they oppose the Holocaust Denial laws, and I do also but not so much because it should be open for discussion and re-interpretation (though anything should) but because making it illegal drives it underground - it "legitimizes" that view in the eyes of it's adherents and allows them to claim a sort of victimhood and persecution identity that gathers steam underground, like most conspiracy theories. Being able to openly refute it is like exposing it to sunlight. Any hate speech is like that - driving it underground gives it power.

It just seems like so many people on borh sides are so busy counting the dead that they don't have time to feel the sadness. It makes their tragedy less meaningful, and the tragedies of others less meaningful as well by comparison of two tragic events.

It isn't a competition. My ancestors starved and died on boats. Their sadness is no more or less than those who died in gas chambers. Every unjust death is a lesson.

Also, I agree with you about the holocaust laws. it is like telling a kid they can't say a certain word without explaining to them why.

 

[MHunterB]

I'd like to point out to everyone that the US has no laws against Holocaust denial. NONE.

And yet so many people keep 'attacking' over those laws.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial:
1 Overview and commentary
2 By country 2.1 Austria
2.2 Belgium
2.3 Bosnia and Herzegovina
2.4 Czech Republic
2.5 France
2.6 Germany 2.6.1 § 130 Public incitement
2.6.2 Other sections

2.7 Hungary
2.8 Israel
2.9 Liechtenstein
2.10 Lithuania
2.11 Luxembourg
2.12 Netherlands
2.13 Poland
2.14 Portugal
2.15 Romania
2.16 Spain
2.17 Switzerland

3 European Union
4 Prosecutions and convictions
5 See also
6 References
7 External links


Here's my question: Given the opinion of so many that 'the Jews have an unduly strong influence over the US and its laws and policies' - why is it that there is no such law in the US?

Does anyone else understand that omission as an anomaly ? How do you explain it?
It should be obvious by now that whoever the 'they' is in 'What are they afraid of? - it is not American Jews.

 

[Iceman]

It is pretty simple, the 1st Amendment. Jewish political influence is has yet to amass enough power to go through the process of getting rid of an Amendment to the Constitution. That would be near impossible for any power group.

Canada, and most countries in Europe, have no guaranteed right of Freedom of Speech.

 

[Coyote]

I'd like to point out to everyone that the US has no laws against Holocaust denial. NONE.

And yet so many people keep 'attacking' over those laws.

I thought they were referring to Europe, not the US....? Perhaps there is a deliberate conflation to side track discussion onto the familiar Jewish conspiracy theory ground.

Here's my question: Given the opinion of so many that 'the Jews have an unduly strong influence over the US and its laws and policies' - why is it that there is no such law in the US?

Does anyone else understand that omission as an anomaly ? How do you explain it?
It should be obvious by now that whoever the 'they' is in 'What are they afraid of? - it is not American Jews.

For one thing, prosecuting people for denying the Holocaust would directly contravene the Constitution. It's the same reason people like the KKK are allowed to publically march in town parades. Free speech, no matter how unpleasant. I think it's a stronger right in the US than it is in Europe.

If a Christian majority in the US, has yet to be able to exert it's influence to affect our laws to their desire, how on earth could a tiny minority (2.1%) of Jews do it? It's the same lack of logic as those screaming about Sharia in America. Pick your conspiracy theory: "Jews control (the world, US Politics, the media, the banks) and throw rational thought out the window.

 

[Coyote]

It is pretty simple, the 1st Amendment. Jewish political influence is has yet to amass enough power to go through the process of getting rid of an Amendment to the Constitution. That would be near impossible for any power group.

Canada, and most countries in Europe, have no guaranteed right of Freedom of Speech.

The Christian majority in the US is far far stronger, and they can't change the constitution - why on earth would you think a tiny 2.1 % minority could, or - more to the point - would WANT to to alter the 1st Amendment? The vast majority of Americans strongly support free speech - even unpleasant free speech.

 

[Iceman]

It is pretty simple, the 1st Amendment. Jewish political influence is has yet to amass enough power to go through the process of getting rid of an Amendment to the Constitution. That would be near impossible for any power group.

Canada, and most countries in Europe, have no guaranteed right of Freedom of Speech.

The Christian majority in the US is far far stronger, and they can't change the constitution - why on earth would you think a tiny 2.1 % minority could, or - more to the point - would WANT to to alter the 1st Amendment? The vast majority of Americans strongly support free speech - even unpleasant free speech.

You seem to be repeating what I said, kind of...

But yeah, sounds good, Jews have no power either. Agreed.