Anti gunners...is this what you wanted when you banned gun magazines? Innocent people going to jail

[strollingbones]

i assure you..when you knock on my door and you hear the sounds of a pump being pumped.....you think twice about that 2nd knock....

 

[JimBowie1958]

how do you count gun owners? i dont fill out anything saying i have guns....shotguns....or rifles....we are so ******* liberal its gonna shock the shit outta some asshole when i blow his ass away...this is a liberal household with guns....more than one...less than 100

There have been surveys of the populations of each state that owns guns, then take that percentage tot he number of adults living in that state.

It is an estimation based on solid math.

 

[strollingbones]

son are you a ******* fool....my point....i dont fill out surveys.....no one tells the truth on that crap.....you dont want the aft come a calling....

 

[WinterBorn]

I'd say between 100,000 and 750,000 times per year that an American uses a gun to stop a crime is an excellent reason.

You could say that, it just wouldn't be true.

200 criminals shot in "Justified Homicides" by civilians. Compared to 33,000 suicides, homicides and accidents.

Just not worth it.

Yep, only 200 people shot & killed. But the FBI estimates 100,000 as the low figure for defensive gun uses. Your number depends on every defensive gun use ending in a death. That is completely dishonest.

Oh, and you still haven't given any evidence that lack of firearm access would change the suicide rates at all.

 

[WinterBorn]

no one discusses the number of rural women who have stopped their own rapes or worse by simply picking up the rifle or shotgun and letting the 'vistor' know you might be alone but you arent helpless......its worth it

EXACTLY!!!! In an unarmed physical confrontation, the overwhelming majority of women will lose. And the response time for law enforcement is too long to prevent the rape or murder.

 

[WinterBorn]

no joe its worth it when its you and your family....i assure you its worth it.....the one time i needed a weapon for protection...it was well worth it

When I worked as a safety professional, I was on the road far more than I was home. We lived in a very rural area. The estimated response time for law enforcement was 20+ minutes. My wife was only safe because she was armed.

 

[strollingbones]

rural women depend a lot of gossip...when i moved in....i was warned...dont let him get you alone..that was all i had to hear to know what they meant...and when he tried to get me alone with my toddler son.....a shotgun was my last line of defense.....people say i was lucky.....i say he was lucky he was unable to get into the house....imagine what is like...sitting on a bed...listening to a man try every door and window looking for a way in....and i was the only thing between him and my son.....he knew my man was gone and wanted to take advantage.....i knew my shotgun was loaded with dble 0...the kick would put me on the bed but stop him in his tracks....and give me time to fire again...now you tell me its not worth it? why do you want to sacrifice people like me and my son? innocent people in our home....why do you side with the possible rapist?

 

[WinterBorn]

no joe its worth it when its you and your family....i assure you its worth it.....the one time i needed a weapon for protection...it was well worth it

Strollingbones, you need to understand JoeyB's mentality. When discussing union tactics a while back, I posted a story about a woman who hired nonunion workers for a construction project. The union thugs sent her pics of her young daughters at the school bus stop, as a threat. Joey actually defended that. But he insists that there are no uses of a firearm to stop a crime unless it ends with someone dying.

 

[strollingbones]

damn is all i can say to that....liberals like that are what give liberals a bad name

 

[2aguy]

So then cops should have the same restrictions on their service pistols, right?

Here's the thing, guy. In the UK, they shoot less than 2 Civilians a year compared to the 1200 citizens who die at the hands of the police in this country.

In Japan, it's considered a scandal if the police even pull their guns out of their holsters.

That's what you get when you don't let every idiot who wants a gun have one.

The gun crime rate in Britain is increasing...after they banned guns....up 42% in Britain and Liverpool is turning into a warzone....

Japan gave their police powers that Americans would never accept...that is how they keep their crime rate low...

What do we get when we allow people to own guns....our crime rate goes down....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400 million guns in private hands and over 15.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...

-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

 

[2aguy]

No...that isn't true...

According to the CDC if you compare apples to apples...accidental deaths to deaths.....

2015

Cars 36,161
Guns 489

It isn't even close.....

Gun deaths are on purpose
That is why we regulate them

Cars kill more people accidentally than criminals do using guns intentionally...

2015

car deaths...36,161
gun murder....9,616

You are wrong again......

Yes and we thoroughly regulate cars. Licensing, registration, insurance, mandatory safety features

Let's do the same with guns

That would be unConstitutional...since they would be the equivalent of Poll Taxes and literacy tests on the Right to own a gun......

Besides that, there is no point....they would not stop criminals or mass shooters from committing crimes with guns...and they wouldn't help police solve crimes involving guns.....

The second amendment calls for a well regulated militia. Licensing, registration are part of regulating

Wrong...as usual.....

Those things are unConstitutional....they are Poll Taxes on the Right to own guns....democrats used Poll Taxes to keep blacks from voting, you want to use them to keep Americans from owning guns....

 

[2aguy]

What are the suicide rates in the countries you reference? I know Japan had 25,000 suicides last year, despite having some of the strictest gun laws in the world.

which is still less than we had...

Also, their culture sees suicide as an honorable thing to do... as opposed to ours where it's a mortal sin.

Japan, China and South Korea have higher suicide rates...as do these European countries that also have extreme gun contro...
Main tables - Eurostat

May, 2014

France....14.13

Finland...14.55

Poland....15.51

Belgium....17.28

Austria....15.26


U.S.....13.00 (Products - Data Briefs - Number 241 - April 2016)

Products - Data Briefs - Number 241 - April 2016

Percentages of suicides involving firearms and poisoning declined from 1999 through 2014, while suicides involving suffocation increased.

• For both females and males, about one in four suicides in 2014 were attributable to suffocation (includes hanging, strangulation, and suffocation), an increase from 1999, when fewer than one in five were by this method (Figure 4).
• The percentages of suicides attributable to firearms and poisoning were lower in 2014 than in 1999 for both females and males.
• Poisoning was the most common method of suicide for females in 2014, accounting for about one-third (34.1%) of all female suicides. This was a change from 1999, when firearms were the most common suicide method for women (36.9%), slightly more likely than poisoning (36.0%).
• More than one-half of male suicides (55.4%) in 2014 were firearm-related, although the percentage of suicides by this method was lower than in 1999 (61.7%).
• The most frequent “other” suicide methods in 2014 (not shown separately) for females were falls (2.8%) and drowning (1.4%). For males, the most frequent “other” methods were falls (2.2%) and cutting or piercing (1.9%).

----------

And of course.....there is no link between guns and suicide...

Fact Check, Gun Control and Suicide



There is no relation between suicide rate and gun ownership rates around the world. According to the 2016 World Health Statistics report, (2) suicide rates in the four countries cited as having restrictive gun control laws have suicide rates that are comparable to that in the U. S.: Australia, 11.6, Canada, 11.4, France, 15.8, UK, 7.0, and USA 13.7 suicides/100,000. By comparison, Japan has among the highest suicide rates in the world, 23.1/100,000, but gun ownership is extremely rare, 0.6 guns/100 people.

Suicide is a mental health issue. If guns are not available other means are used. Poisoning, in fact, is the most common method of suicide for U. S. females according to the Washington Post (34 % of suicides), and suffocation the second most common method for males (27%).

Secondly, gun ownership rates in France and Canada are not low, as is implied in the Post article. The rate of gun ownership in the U. S. is indeed high at 88.8 guns/100 residents, but gun ownership rates are also among the world’s highest in the other countries cited. Gun ownership rates in these countries are are as follows: Australia, 15, Canada, 30.8, France, 31.2, and UK 6.2 per 100 residents. (3,4) Gun ownership rates in Saudia Arabia are comparable to that in Canada and France, with 37.8 guns per 100 Saudi residents, yet the lowest suicide rate in the world is in Saudia Arabia (0.3 suicides per 100,000).

Third, recent statistics in the state of Florida show that nearly one third of the guns used in suicides are obtained illegally, putting these firearm deaths beyond control through gun laws.(5)

Fourth, the primary factors affecting suicide rates are personal stresses, cultural, economic, religious factors and demographics. According to the WHO statistics, the highest rates of suicide in the world are in the Republic of Korea, with 36.8 suicides per 100,000, but India, Japan, Russia, and Hungary all have rates above 20 per 100,000; roughly twice as high as the U.S. and the four countries that are the basis for the Post’s calculation that gun control would reduce U.S. suicide rates by 20 to 38 percent. Lebanon, Oman, and Iraq all have suicide rates below 1.1 per 100,000 people--less than 1/10 the suicide rate in the U. S., and Afghanistan, Algeria, Jamaica, Haiti, and Egypt have low suicide rates that are below 4 per 100,000 in contrast to 13.7 suicides/100,000 in the U. S.

 

[strollingbones]

out my 3 friends who offed themselves....only 1 used a gun.....1 pills....1 shut the garage run the hose from exhaust to back seat....turned up the music and smoked till he went

 

[Skull Pilot]

and that's the topic of the post

It's beyond stupid to say a 10 round magazine is OK but a 12 or 15 round mag is a crime

I agree. Civilians shouldn't have guns or magazines because there's NO GOOD REASON FOR THEM TO HAVE THEM.

But we'll take what we can get to reduce the level of carnage your fetish causes.

There are plenty of good reasons to have a gun

But then again I live in the real world.

and FYI most gun crimes are committed with illegally possessed guns by people with prior criminal records not the average everyday gun owner

 

[2aguy]

and that's the topic of the post

It's beyond stupid to say a 10 round magazine is OK but a 12 or 15 round mag is a crime

I agree. Civilians shouldn't have guns or magazines because there's NO GOOD REASON FOR THEM TO HAVE THEM.

But we'll take what we can get to reduce the level of carnage your fetish causes.

You mean except for stopping violent criminal attack...as a starting point...

Americans use guns 1,500,000 times to stop violent criminal attack..according to bill clinton and barak obama....and about a dozen other research groups......

And what happens when you have armed citizens...

-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

What happens when you disarm citizens.......like Britain...

Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.
The Met Police's figures showed there were 2,544 gun crime offences from April 2016 to April 2017 compared to 1,793 offences from 2015 until 2016.
Knife crime also increased by 24% with 12,074 recorded offences from 2016 to 2017.
============

Gun and knife crime soaring in London, official figures show

More worryingly, there was also a rise in the number of guns being fired on London’s streets, up from 239 cases in 2015/16 to 306 cases in the last financial year.

There was also a 20 per cent increase in the rate of knife attacks involving injuries to victims, up from 3,663 to 4,415 in 2016/17.

------

“We are concerned about the rise of gun crime and rise of knife crime offences committed by young people and the changing nature of the offenders. “

He said there was evidence that more young people are carrying knives for a variety of reasons including status, criminality and self-protection but said only around a quarter are affiliated with gangs.

He said police were focusing on reducing stabbings by taking weapons and dangerous offenders off the streets and trying to prevent and divert people from crime.
------

“With double-digit growth in gun and knife crime - and a youth homicide almost every fortnight - the crime challenge for London is real and serious and has serious impacts for London’s most disadvantaged communities.”
He added: “With 600 victims of serious youth violence each month, the Met needs a new plan to tackle the violence on our capital’s streets if they are to help impoverished communities.
==========

Violent crime on the rise in every corner of the country, figures suggest

But analysis of the figures force by force, showed the full extent of the problem, with only one constabulary, Nottinghamshire, recording a reduction in violent offences.

The vast majority of police forces actually witnessed double digit rises in violent crime, with Northumbria posting a 95 per cent increase year on year.

Of the other forces, Durham Police recorded a 73 per cent rise; West Yorkshire was up 48 per cent; Avon and Somerset 45 per cent; Dorset 39 per cent and Warwickshire 37 per cent.

Elsewhere Humberside, South Yorkshire, Staffordshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Wiltshire and Dyfed Powys all saw violence rise by more than a quarter year on year.

 

[Skull Pilot]

And your claims to cultural differences is a moot point. Unless you are going to look at cultural differences between the US and other countries when discussing gun violence, you don't get to do so in this case.

we do have a cultural difference. We have a National Rampage Association that pumps thousands of guns into the market every year, and wonders why we have horrific levels of gun violence.

Most sensible countries would ban guns and lock up Wayne LaPeirre for being an asshole.

The NRA doesn't sell guns you moron

 

[RealDave]

rural women depend a lot of gossip...when i moved in....i was warned...dont let him get you alone..that was all i had to hear to know what they meant...and when he tried to get me alone with my toddler son.....a shotgun was my last line of defense.....people say i was lucky.....i say he was lucky he was unable to get into the house....imagine what is like...sitting on a bed...listening to a man try every door and window looking for a way in....and i was the only thing between him and my son.....he knew my man was gone and wanted to take advantage.....i knew my shotgun was loaded with dble 0...the kick would put me on the bed but stop him in his tracks....and give me time to fire again...now you tell me its not worth it? why do you want to sacrifice people like me and my son? innocent people in our home....why do you side with the possible rapist?

Most people do not have a problem with guns for self defense in the home. It is a risk that you assume & basically the risk stays in your home.

Its this need for some to be armed everywhere they go that puts everyone at risk.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I'd say between 100,000 and 750,000 times per year that an American uses a gun to stop a crime is an excellent reason.

You could say that, it just wouldn't be true.

200 criminals shot in "Justified Homicides" by civilians. Compared to 33,000 suicides, homicides and accidents.

Just not worth it.

here you go again with this bullshit

a person does not have to be shot and killed in order for a gun to be used in self defense

Tell me how many times was a crime prevented by the mere brandishing of a firearm?
How many were prevented if a shot was fired but missed?

 

[strollingbones]

that would be my son......pants and gun go on at the same time....he is armed at my dinner table.....smh....

then again...he travels a lot more than i do....and with a young lady most of the time....and they are climbers they go into the wilderness..there the gun is more for bears...not to kill but to shoosh away

 

[2aguy]

I'd say between 100,000 and 750,000 times per year that an American uses a gun to stop a crime is an excellent reason.

You could say that, it just wouldn't be true.

200 criminals shot in "Justified Homicides" by civilians. Compared to 33,000 suicides, homicides and accidents.

Just not worth it.

And you lie, again........Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year to stop violent criminal attack, the vast majority of the time the criminals run away..because they aren't there to get shot......then you have the criminals who surrender, and then you have the ones who are shot and don't die.......of course you ignore those real world outcomes in order to lie about gun owners and ownership in this country.