Another couple found guilty of murder for parenting by "To Train Up a Child"

[Casjah]

A quote from the article: "The Pearls and their ministry, No Greater Joy, make an estimated $1.7 million a year."

^absolutely disgusting. And it breaks my heart.. Hana would have been better off not even being born.

Unfortunately, I have to agree with those who do not want to ban the book. Prohibition never works. Besides, as long as people are twisted on the inside, their foul philosophies and disturbing ideas will still exist.

 

[uhkilleez]

Shame you don't know Christ. How many children did He beat to death?

Seeing as he didn't exist, I'd be forced to say none. Supposing he did exist, the Bible is not a complete compilation of the scriptures, it's merely the compilation which Constantine and his council of Bishops saw it fit to add. With that being said, how can we really know? It is quite clear, Jesus upheld the laws of the Old Testament up to and including the stoning and death of disobedient children. It's very possible if such a character were to have existed that he did in fact take part in such events. Overall, though, great deflection of the greater point which was that Jesus condones the death of disobedient children. There's no way of talking your way around it, it's right there in your book.

Even Satan can quote Scripture.

Run along, now.

This is just a pathetic cop out because you are flabbergasted Jesus condoned child abuse and have nothing more to say on the subject.

Run along, now.

 

[daveman]

Shame you don't know Christ. How many children did He beat to death?

Seeing as he didn't exist, I'd be forced to say none. Supposing he did exist, the Bible is not a complete compilation of the scriptures, it's merely the compilation which Constantine and his council of Bishops saw it fit to add. With that being said, how can we really know? It is quite clear, Jesus upheld the laws of the Old Testament up to and including the stoning and death of disobedient children. It's very possible if such a character were to have existed that he did in fact take part in such events. Overall, though, great deflection of the greater point which was that Jesus condones the death of disobedient children. There's no way of talking your way around it, it's right there in your book.

Even Satan can quote Scripture.

Run along, now.

This is just a pathetic cop out because you are flabbergasted Jesus condoned child abuse and have nothing more to say on the subject.

Run along, now.

Not really. Jesus condoned discipline...not torture.

So, how's your plan to equate the damnable abuse in the OP with all Christianity? Looks like a big fat fail, doesn't it?

 

[Pennywise]

You can't ban the book. Besides, something tells me parents like this use a book like that as an excuse to be sadists. They would have beaten the child no matter what they read, they enjoyed it.

 

[uhkilleez]

Shame you don't know Christ. How many children did He beat to death?

Seeing as he didn't exist, I'd be forced to say none. Supposing he did exist, the Bible is not a complete compilation of the scriptures, it's merely the compilation which Constantine and his council of Bishops saw it fit to add. With that being said, how can we really know? It is quite clear, Jesus upheld the laws of the Old Testament up to and including the stoning and death of disobedient children. It's very possible if such a character were to have existed that he did in fact take part in such events. Overall, though, great deflection of the greater point which was that Jesus condones the death of disobedient children. There's no way of talking your way around it, it's right there in your book.

Even Satan can quote Scripture.

Run along, now.

This is just a pathetic cop out because you are flabbergasted Jesus condoned child abuse and have nothing more to say on the subject.

Run along, now.

Not really. Jesus condoned discipline...not torture.

So, how's your plan to equate the damnable abuse in the OP with all Christianity? Looks like a big fat fail, doesn't it?

So stoning disobedient children to death is "discipline"?

 

[daveman]

Seeing as he didn't exist, I'd be forced to say none. Supposing he did exist, the Bible is not a complete compilation of the scriptures, it's merely the compilation which Constantine and his council of Bishops saw it fit to add. With that being said, how can we really know? It is quite clear, Jesus upheld the laws of the Old Testament up to and including the stoning and death of disobedient children. It's very possible if such a character were to have existed that he did in fact take part in such events. Overall, though, great deflection of the greater point which was that Jesus condones the death of disobedient children. There's no way of talking your way around it, it's right there in your book.



This is just a pathetic cop out because you are flabbergasted Jesus condoned child abuse and have nothing more to say on the subject.

Run along, now.

Not really. Jesus condoned discipline...not torture.

So, how's your plan to equate the damnable abuse in the OP with all Christianity? Looks like a big fat fail, doesn't it?

So stoning disobedient children to death is "discipline"?

Where did Jesus condone stoning?

Hint: Nowhere.

So, how's your plan to equate the damnable abuse in the OP with all Christianity? Looks like a big fat fail, doesn't it?

 

[uhkilleez]

Not really. Jesus condoned discipline...not torture.

So, how's your plan to equate the damnable abuse in the OP with all Christianity? Looks like a big fat fail, doesn't it?

So stoning disobedient children to death is "discipline"?

Where did Jesus condone stoning?

Hint: Nowhere.

So, how's your plan to equate the damnable abuse in the OP with all Christianity? Looks like a big fat fail, doesn't it?

If you fail to succeed in reading, and/or reading comprehension this time, I will do you a swift favor and read these verses of scripture to you via vocaroo.com.

Matthew 15:4 "For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death."
Mark 7:10 "For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:"
Proverbs 23:13-14 "Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you strike him with a rod, he will not die. If you strike him with the rod, you will save his soul from Sheol."

Edit: Just in case the verse from Proverbs throws you off, or you are smart enough to see that you can nitpick at it and beat me to death around the bush, I will strongly urge you to pay attention to Matthew 15:4 and Mark 7:10, in which Jesus himself speaks with contentment to the OT laws inflicting death upon disobedient children, namely in the key phrase, "let him die the death."

 

[daveman]

So stoning disobedient children to death is "discipline"?

Where did Jesus condone stoning?

Hint: Nowhere.

So, how's your plan to equate the damnable abuse in the OP with all Christianity? Looks like a big fat fail, doesn't it?

If you fail to succeed in reading, and/or reading comprehension this time, I will do you a swift favor and read these verses of scripture to you via vocaroo.com.

Matthew 15:4 "For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death."
Mark 7:10 "For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:"
Proverbs 23:13-14 "Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you strike him with a rod, he will not die. If you strike him with the rod, you will save his soul from Sheol."

Edit: Just in case the verse from Proverbs throws you off, or you are smart enough to see that you can nitpick at it and beat me to death around the bush, I will strongly urge you to pay attention to Matthew 15:4 and Mark 7:10, in which Jesus himself speaks with contentment to the OT laws inflicting death upon disobedient children, namely in the key phrase, "let him die the death."

Context is everything, and as is so often the case with Satan, you leave it out.

Jesus was speaking to the Jews who had essentially re-written the law about grown children taking care of their elderly parents. He said what they had done to the Law was an abomination in God's eyes.

But that doesn't fit your narrative, does it?

Meanwhile, how's your plan to equate the damnable abuse in the OP with all Christianity? Looks like a big fat fail, doesn't it? Have you noticed there are no Christians in this thread agreeing with the teachings of the evil people who wrote the book that's getting children killed?

 

[uhkilleez]

Where did Jesus condone stoning?

Hint: Nowhere.

So, how's your plan to equate the damnable abuse in the OP with all Christianity? Looks like a big fat fail, doesn't it?

If you fail to succeed in reading, and/or reading comprehension this time, I will do you a swift favor and read these verses of scripture to you via vocaroo.com.

Matthew 15:4 "For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death."
Mark 7:10 "For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:"
Proverbs 23:13-14 "Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you strike him with a rod, he will not die. If you strike him with the rod, you will save his soul from Sheol."

Edit: Just in case the verse from Proverbs throws you off, or you are smart enough to see that you can nitpick at it and beat me to death around the bush, I will strongly urge you to pay attention to Matthew 15:4 and Mark 7:10, in which Jesus himself speaks with contentment to the OT laws inflicting death upon disobedient children, namely in the key phrase, "let him die the death."

Context is everything, and as is so often the case with Satan, you leave it out.

Jesus was speaking to the Jews who had essentially re-written the law about grown children taking care of their elderly parents. He said what they had done to the Law was an abomination in God's eyes.

But that doesn't fit your narrative, does it?

Meanwhile, how's your plan to equate the damnable abuse in the OP with all Christianity? Looks like a big fat fail, doesn't it? Have you noticed there are no Christians in this thread agreeing with the teachings of the evil people who wrote the book that's getting children killed?

1.) The book isn't getting children killed, their parents are.
2.) So you finally come down to the "context is everything, don't take it literally" bullshit, but I'll bet in the next breathe you will talk about homosexuality being an abomination as if that part of the Bible ought to be taken literally.
3.) I don't have a narrative, I am simply showing you that your Bible is a contradictory work of fiction. True morality comes from within, and although your Bible has many morally good teachings, they are also surrounded by evil and often times thrown out because they are unsuitable to the way Christians desire to live. Very few Christians these days choose not to judge as they are told, or to love their enemies as they are told. Even fewer turn the other cheek as they are told.
4.) If you want to talk about books that get people killed, look at the crusades and inquisitions and get back to me. Your Bible has caused more death than any other book, ever.

 

[Chuckt]

So stoning disobedient children to death is "discipline"?

Where did Jesus condone stoning?

Hint: Nowhere.

So, how's your plan to equate the damnable abuse in the OP with all Christianity? Looks like a big fat fail, doesn't it?

If you fail to succeed in reading, and/or reading comprehension this time, I will do you a swift favor and read these verses of scripture to you via vocaroo.com.

Matthew 15:4 "For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death."
Mark 7:10 "For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:"
Proverbs 23:13-14 "Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you strike him with a rod, he will not die. If you strike him with the rod, you will save his soul from Sheol."

Edit: Just in case the verse from Proverbs throws you off, or you are smart enough to see that you can nitpick at it and beat me to death around the bush, I will strongly urge you to pay attention to Matthew 15:4 and Mark 7:10, in which Jesus himself speaks with contentment to the OT laws inflicting death upon disobedient children, namely in the key phrase, "let him die the death."

Titus 2:4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,

Ephesians 6:4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

Luke 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.


Matthew 5:38 ¶ Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

Matthew 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.


Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary

The gospel teaches masters to forbear, and to moderate threatenings, Eph 6:9, considering with Job, What shall I do, when God riseth up? Job 31:13,14

 

[uhkilleez]

Where did Jesus condone stoning?

Hint: Nowhere.

So, how's your plan to equate the damnable abuse in the OP with all Christianity? Looks like a big fat fail, doesn't it?

If you fail to succeed in reading, and/or reading comprehension this time, I will do you a swift favor and read these verses of scripture to you via vocaroo.com.

Matthew 15:4 "For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death."
Mark 7:10 "For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:"
Proverbs 23:13-14 "Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you strike him with a rod, he will not die. If you strike him with the rod, you will save his soul from Sheol."

Edit: Just in case the verse from Proverbs throws you off, or you are smart enough to see that you can nitpick at it and beat me to death around the bush, I will strongly urge you to pay attention to Matthew 15:4 and Mark 7:10, in which Jesus himself speaks with contentment to the OT laws inflicting death upon disobedient children, namely in the key phrase, "let him die the death."

Titus 2:4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,

Ephesians 6:4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

Luke 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.


Matthew 5:38 ¶ Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

Matthew 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.


Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary

The gospel teaches masters to forbear, and to moderate threatenings, Eph 6:9, considering with Job, What shall I do, when God riseth up? Job 31:13,14

You do not see the contradictory nature between "eye for an eye", and "love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you" or "but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also."? So God wants you to forgive and forget, but get revenge?

 

[daveman]

1.) The book isn't getting children killed, their parents are.

The book is giving psychotic parents impetus to abuse their children to death. The parents are responsible for the murders they've committed, but IMO, so are the authors.

2.) So you finally come down to the "context is everything, don't take it literally" bullshit, but I'll bet in the next breathe you will talk about homosexuality being an abomination as if that part of the Bible ought to be taken literally.

You lose. Gays are sinners -- and so am I. So are you. So is everybody. And God doesn't make a distinction among sin.

3.) I don't have a narrative, I am simply showing you that your Bible is a contradictory work of fiction. True morality comes from within, and although your Bible has many morally good teachings, they are also surrounded by evil and often times thrown out because they are unsuitable to the way Christians desire to live. Very few Christians these days choose not to judge as they are told, or to love their enemies as they are told. Even fewer turn the other cheek as they are told.

No argument there. We should be more like Christ, not like Christians.

4.) If you want to talk about books that get people killed, look at the crusades and inquisitions and get back to me. Your Bible has caused more death than any other book, ever.

You might have a point if you didn't have to reach back hundreds of years to find anything more than isolated atrocities committed in the name of the Bible.

But I can look in the news to find atrocities committed in the name of the Koran.

 

[Vox]

Was the New Testament meant to overturn the laws of the Old?

Yes. And it DID.

on the OP - it is pure horror

 

[Chuckt]

If you fail to succeed in reading, and/or reading comprehension this time, I will do you a swift favor and read these verses of scripture to you via vocaroo.com.

Matthew 15:4 "For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death."
Mark 7:10 "For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:"
Proverbs 23:13-14 "Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you strike him with a rod, he will not die. If you strike him with the rod, you will save his soul from Sheol."

Edit: Just in case the verse from Proverbs throws you off, or you are smart enough to see that you can nitpick at it and beat me to death around the bush, I will strongly urge you to pay attention to Matthew 15:4 and Mark 7:10, in which Jesus himself speaks with contentment to the OT laws inflicting death upon disobedient children, namely in the key phrase, "let him die the death."

Titus 2:4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,

Ephesians 6:4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

Luke 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.


Matthew 5:38 ¶ Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

Matthew 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.


Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary

The gospel teaches masters to forbear, and to moderate threatenings, Eph 6:9, considering with Job, What shall I do, when God riseth up? Job 31:13,14

You do not see the contradictory nature between "eye for an eye", and "love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you" or "but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also."? So God wants you to forgive and forget, but get revenge?

Different time periods required different methods and different things because they were more warlike back then.

The greatest gift is love and the new dispensation teaches that grace changes everything.

I would suggest that anyone who wants to know why Grace Changes Everything get a copy of Chuck Smith’s book “Why Grace Changes Everything.”

“Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe for there is no difference;”-Romans 3:22

Circle the words “all” in Romans 3:22. The righteousness which is of God is by faith in Jesus Christ. The reason why God’s righteousness isn’t of your works is something I will get to in a minute.

“Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:”-Romans 3:24

The justification is free by His grace through the redemption in Jesus Christ.

“Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation (Mercy Seat) through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;”-Romans 3:25

The word “propitiation” is the Mercy Seat of God in the Old Testament. Jesus was crucified on the cross as payment for our sins.

The reason that righteousness is not by works is that our righteousness has to come from God’s account and it has to be transferred to our account of the ledger. When you read words like “recon” or “impute” the form “recon” in the RV is more suitable according to Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Biblical words. It means “to put down to a person’s account.”

If you want to have true righteousness then it has to come from the one who is Holy. It is not something you can reproduce. It is a gift. Hannah prayed in I Samuel 2:15 that “There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.” By ourselves and apart from God, we don’t have this holiness. When Adam and Eve sinned against God, sin entered the world. Only a payment of equal or greater value could pay for our past, present and future sins. Since there is none holy except our God, Jesus can only offer His righteousness (positionally) to us until we are in our glorified bodies and then we will be righteous in a (practical) sense.

Works of the Jews and the Gentiles don’t save because “…in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; As it is written, 'There is none righteous, no, not one;”-Romans 3:10

Overcoming sin is not in ourselves alone . “Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;”-Romans 3:25 It is God who has set forth as the architect of this righteousness for us to believe in Jesus Christ crucified, risen and coming again.

“To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.”-Romans 3:26

“And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation.”-II Cor 2:5-18

God is the one reconciling the world unto himself and He asks us to be reconciled to Him.

“To wit, that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their tresspasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.”-II Cor. 5:19

If you want to go by your own accounting system, God can easily impute an equal amount of fire and brimstone for your sins if you want to go by your works of righteousness.

What we need to do is to take our body to the cross with Christ and to account the old body of our to be dead with “Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.”-Romans 6:6-7

When we try to conquer sin in our own strength, we are disobeying Romans 6:6-7. When we try to do it ourselves, we are not accounting our own ability dead at the cross because our own human efforts often point to the fact that we are alive and only he that is dead is freed from sin. We are still alive in these mortal bodies so we will sin but also we will sin as long as we don’t take ourselves to the cross and allow His ability to free us. We need to call out to God for deliverance. We can’t do it ourselves.

I'm not saying it doesn't matter if we sin. Sin is offensive to God. I think that we should keep short accounts with God according to I John 1:9. Paul also answers the same argument, 'What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?"-Romans 6:1 The word "continue" is a habitual or continual tense. Our works will be thrown into the fire and that which comes back is our reward. If our sins are in our works, I'm sure our medals will be burned up as well. It also says in the Bible that God chastises His children and if He doesn't then we are illegitimate (you know..the B word that the King James uses that message board software censors). So if we are chastised then we aren't perfect and not deserving of His righteousness apart from Christ and if we aren't chastised then we aren't His children (Hebrew 12:8) so I could make both arguments from Hebrews 12:8. The only solution is grace.


1 Corinthians 13:13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

 

[uhkilleez]

Different time periods required different methods and different things because they were more warlike back then.

Oh please, this country has been in a near constant state of war since WWII. We've never been more or less warlike, the only thing that has changed are our weapons. I'm sorry, but that opening line has to be the largest pile of bollocks I have ever heard in my life. If something is good and moral, it shouldn't change with the times, it should be as omnipresent as God. Turning the other cheek and loving your enemies doesn't magically become the law because humans are less warlike, it all has to do with the personality of the human being who wrote that particular gospel.

The greatest gift is love and the new dispensation teaches that grace changes everything.

I would suggest that anyone who wants to know why Grace Changes Everything get a copy of Chuck Smith’s book “Why Grace Changes Everything.”

“Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe for there is no difference;”-Romans 3:22

Circle the words “all” in Romans 3:22. The righteousness which is of God is by faith in Jesus Christ. The reason why God’s righteousness isn’t of your works is something I will get to in a minute.

“Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:”-Romans 3:24

The justification is free by His grace through the redemption in Jesus Christ.

“Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation (Mercy Seat) through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;”-Romans 3:25

The word “propitiation” is the Mercy Seat of God in the Old Testament. Jesus was crucified on the cross as payment for our sins.

The reason that righteousness is not by works is that our righteousness has to come from God’s account and it has to be transferred to our account of the ledger. When you read words like “recon” or “impute” the form “recon” in the RV is more suitable according to Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Biblical words. It means “to put down to a person’s account.”

Why did our sins need to be paid for? Why not just forgiven?

If you want to have true righteousness then it has to come from the one who is Holy. It is not something you can reproduce. It is a gift. Hannah prayed in I Samuel 2:15 that “There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.” By ourselves and apart from God, we don’t have this holiness. When Adam and Eve sinned against God, sin entered the world. Only a payment of equal or greater value could pay for our past, present and future sins. Since there is none holy except our God, Jesus can only offer His righteousness (positionally) to us until we are in our glorified bodies and then we will be righteous in a (practical) sense.

How arbitrary and redundant. Again, why must sins be paid for and not be simply forgiven? I am righteous to my own nature; I do not lie, I do not steal, I do not kill. I tend to treat others the way I'd like to be treated, which is why sheer idiocy receives a harsh tone from me. I do not like to conduct myself ignorantly, or to project myself as such. I'm not a total dick for no reason, however. Can the same be said for most Christians, who put faith in their lord Jesus Christ and should receive Holy righteousness as such? Does the WBC treat others the way they wish to be treated, and follow the teachings of Christ? Hell no, the Westboro Baptist Church are some of the most evil and vile people of modern times, they rank right up there with Islamic extremists. They may not induce violence, but they are extremely twisted and sick psychologically.

Furthermore, why does Eve's biting of the apple equate only to the holiness of God himself? Even if the more liberal Christians could be correct in rendering this a metaphor for sex, is premarital sex such a dastardly sin? If so, why did God give us sexual organs in the first place? Why apply arbitrary rules to that which he has given us under the knowledge He has made us curious in nature? He knew we would explore our bodies, and it can only make sense he encouraged it. Otherwise it is deceptive nonsense and makes God imperfect.

Works of the Jews and the Gentiles don’t save because “…in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; As it is written, 'There is none righteous, no, not one;”-Romans 3:10

Overcoming sin is not in ourselves alone . “Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;”-Romans 3:25 It is God who has set forth as the architect of this righteousness for us to believe in Jesus Christ crucified, risen and coming again.

“To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.”-Romans 3:26

“And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation.”-II Cor 2:5-18

God is the one reconciling the world unto himself and He asks us to be reconciled to Him.

“To wit, that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their tresspasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.”-II Cor. 5:19

What an arbitrary system of forgiveness this is, and so primitively ritualistic in its nature. Why, oh why, would an all perfect God need to spill his own blood to pay for our sins, only so that He himself may forgive us for them?

If you want to go by your own accounting system, God can easily impute an equal amount of fire and brimstone for your sins if you want to go by your works of righteousness.

Who are you to judge as if you were Him, what earns you a spot in heaven or hell? Do you not know that to judge in His place is a sin unto you?

What we need to do is to take our body to the cross with Christ and to account the old body of our to be dead with “Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.”-Romans 6:6-7

When we try to conquer sin in our own strength, we are disobeying Romans 6:6-7. When we try to do it ourselves, we are not accounting our own ability dead at the cross because our own human efforts often point to the fact that we are alive and only he that is dead is freed from sin. We are still alive in these mortal bodies so we will sin but also we will sin as long as we don’t take ourselves to the cross and allow His ability to free us. We need to call out to God for deliverance. We can’t do it ourselves.

I'm not saying it doesn't matter if we sin. Sin is offensive to God. I think that we should keep short accounts with God according to I John 1:9. Paul also answers the same argument, 'What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?"-Romans 6:1 The word "continue" is a habitual or continual tense. Our works will be thrown into the fire and that which comes back is our reward. If our sins are in our works, I'm sure our medals will be burned up as well. It also says in the Bible that God chastises His children and if He doesn't then we are illegitimate (you know..the B word that the King James uses that message board software censors). So if we are chastised then we aren't perfect and not deserving of His righteousness apart from Christ and if we aren't chastised then we aren't His children (Hebrew 12:8) so I could make both arguments from Hebrews 12:8. The only solution is grace.

BUT, he loves you...

 

[Chuckt]

You do not see the contradictory nature between "eye for an eye", and "love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you" or "but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also."? So God wants you to forgive and forget, but get revenge?

There is a fine line between revenge or rewarding people for evil and letting that change you and becoming evil. I think if you always reward people with evil, it may be that you will become evil.

I process a lot of the lies and challenges to Christianity and I have to dump the garbage out of my life and do what Paul says:

Philippians 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

I let God worry about the bad stuff:

Romans 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

 

[uhkilleez]

Was the New Testament meant to overturn the laws of the Old?

Yes. And it DID.

on the OP - it is pure horror

You have obviously not read your Bible.

 

[uhkilleez]

There is a fine line between revenge or rewarding people for evil and letting that change you and becoming evil. I think if you always reward people with evil, it may be that you will become evil.

I process a lot of the lies and challenges to Christianity and I have to dump the garbage out of my life and do what Paul says:

Philippians 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

I let God worry about the bad stuff:

Romans 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

This is exactly what the Bible was meant to make you feel. The politicians who wrote it didn't want their citizens stringing them up in the streets for all the evil shit they did. Constantine was faced with a crumbling empire and the Holy Roman Church was the answer he saw to consolidate his borders. In the end, it didn't work. They wanted people to believe they would answer for their evils in the afterlife while the truth is that this life is all we really have.

P.S. The contradictory nature of the Bible isn't garbage, it's inherent within the gospels.

 

[Chuckt]

What an arbitrary system of forgiveness this is, and so primitively ritualistic in its nature. Why, oh why, would an all perfect God need to spill his own blood to pay for our sins, only so that He himself may forgive us for them?

Because you have to be ransomed:

http://www.biblestudytools.com/encyclopedias/isbe/ransom.html


Matthew 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

 

[uhkilleez]

What an arbitrary system of forgiveness this is, and so primitively ritualistic in its nature. Why, oh why, would an all perfect God need to spill his own blood to pay for our sins, only so that He himself may forgive us for them?

Because you have to be ransomed:

http://www.biblestudytools.com/encyclopedias/isbe/ransom.html


Matthew 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

And for what greater purpose? Why must Jesus ransom his life for many to get God to do what He could have done in the first place? Why shed more blood in order to do something you could have done already? Why is God bound to a ransom, being an all perfect being?