Another couple found guilty of murder for parenting by "To Train Up a Child"

[daveman]

Another couple found guilty of murder for parenting by "To Train Up a Child"

Two parents in Washington state have been found guilty of murder after following the abusive parenting techniques advocated in the parenting book "To Train Up a Child" by Michael and Debi Pearl.

Larry and Carri Williams received the maximum prison sentences allowable under the law after being found guilty of beating and starving their adopted daughter Hana to death. The methods they used to "discipline" their daughter were advocated in the controversial Christian book.

The New York Times reported:

Late one night in May this year, the adopted girl, Hana, was found face down, naked and emaciated in the backyard; her death was caused by hypothermia and malnutrition, officials determined. According to the sheriff’s report, the parents had deprived her of food for days at a time and had made her sleep in a cold barn or a closet and shower outside with a hose. And they often whipped her, leaving marks on her legs. The mother had praised the Pearls’ book and given a copy to a friend, the sheriff’s report said. Hana had been beaten the day of her death, the report said, with the 15-inch plastic tube recommended by Mr. Pearl.​

Some of the discipline techniques the Pearls teach include:

• Using plastic tubing to beat children, since it hurts a lot but leaves fewer marks to alert authorities
• Wearing the plastic tubing around the parent's neck as a constant reminder to obey
• "Swatting" babies as young as six months old with instruments such as "a 12-inch willowy branch," thinner plastic tubing or a wooden spoon
• "Blanket training" babies by hitting them with an instrument if they try to crawl off a blanket on the floor
• Beating older children with rulers, paddles, belts and larger tree branches
• "Training" children with pain before they even disobey, in order to teach total obedience
• Giving cold water baths, putting children outside in cold weather and withholding meals as discipline
• Hosing off children who have potty training accidents
• Inflicting punishment until a child is "without breath to complain."

This is NOT Christianity, this is NOT Biblical, and this is NOT acceptable. The Pearls need to be arrested for accessory to murder.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Thank you, daveman, for this valuable post.

Such "parenting" is not parenting.

 

[Avatar4321]

Ive never heard of this book but what the heck? How can anyone do such things to their child? Especially when the scriptures are clear that we are to love them.

 

[Tank]

Wtf?

 

[BDBoop]

40,000 Sign Petition to Ban Christian Parenting Book Implicated in Murders

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/07/us/deaths-put-focus-on-pastors-advocacy-of-spanking.html?_r=3&

Hana Williams: The tragic death of an Ethiopian adoptee, and how it could happen again.

 

[uhkilleez]

Ive never heard of this book but what the heck? How can anyone do such things to their child? Especially when the scriptures are clear that we are to love them.

It's clear, is it?

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear. -- Deuteronomy 21:18-21

The eye that mocketh at his father, and despiseth to obey his mother, the ravens of the valley shall pick it out, and the young eagles shall eat it. -- Proverbs 30:17

He that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death. -- Exodus 21:17

The Lord smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon.... And there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead. -- Exodus 12:29-30

And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them. -- 2 Kings 2:23-24

And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat. -- Leviticus 26:29

And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters. -- Deuteronomy 28:53

And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they shall eat every one the flesh of his friend. -- Jeremiah 19:9

Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones. -- Psalm 137:9

Is that clear enough for you?

 

[Noomi]

A Christian parenting book which advocates beating your children? Why isn't such a book banned? And don't give me that freedom of speech shit, either.

 

[uhkilleez]

A Christian parenting book which advocates beating your children? Why isn't such a book banned? And don't give me that freedom of speech shit, either.

If you make one exception in the first amendment, it will surely be followed by another. It matters not where the idea came from, they were unfit to be parents. A good person with common sense would never do such things to a child, no matter the religious convictions of those whom told them to do so.

 

[WinterBorn]

The parents need to spend the rest of their lives in jail. No parole or early release for good behavior.

 

[uhkilleez]

The parents need to spend the rest of their lives in jail. No parole or early release for good behavior.

Don't forget raped daily.

 

[WinterBorn]

The parents need to spend the rest of their lives in jail. No parole or early release for good behavior.

Don't forget raped daily.

I would prefer they be in solitary, with pics of their daughter on the walls.

 

[uhkilleez]

The parents need to spend the rest of their lives in jail. No parole or early release for good behavior.

Don't forget raped daily.

I would prefer they be in solitary, with pics of their daughter on the walls.

Why not both?

 

[WinterBorn]

I just cannot fathom how parents can see these techniques as anything but torture.

""Training" children with pain before they even disobey, in order to teach total obedience"

WTH? How can you see that as a way to treat your child?

 

[daveman]

Ive never heard of this book but what the heck? How can anyone do such things to their child? Especially when the scriptures are clear that we are to love them.

It's clear, is it?

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear. -- Deuteronomy 21:18-21

The eye that mocketh at his father, and despiseth to obey his mother, the ravens of the valley shall pick it out, and the young eagles shall eat it. -- Proverbs 30:17

He that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death. -- Exodus 21:17

The Lord smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon.... And there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead. -- Exodus 12:29-30

And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them. -- 2 Kings 2:23-24

And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat. -- Leviticus 26:29

And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters. -- Deuteronomy 28:53

And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they shall eat every one the flesh of his friend. -- Jeremiah 19:9

Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones. -- Psalm 137:9

Is that clear enough for you?

It's clear that you have no clue what the New Testament is about.

Run along now.

 

[uhkilleez]

It's clear that you have no clue what the New Testament is about.

Run along now.

Was the New Testament meant to overturn the laws of the Old?

Matthew 5:17 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill."

Yeah, good luck with that argument.

Matthew 10:34 "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."

Luke 12:46 "The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers."
Luke 12:47 "And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes."

Acts 3:23 "And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people."

Romans 1:31 "Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:"
Romans 1:32 "Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. "

1 Corinthians 10:9 "Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents."
1 Corinthians 10:10 "Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer."

Ephesians 1:4 "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:"
Ephesians 1:5 "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,"
That's right, God CREATED you to go to heaven or hell, it is not your actions which get you there.

Now for the good part...

Matthew 15:4 "For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death."
Mark 7:10 "For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:"
Proverbs 23:13-14 "Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you strike him with a rod, he will not die. If you strike him with the rod, you will save his soul from Sheol."

I know your New Testament. How well do you, really?

 

[martybegan]

A Christian parenting book which advocates beating your children? Why isn't such a book banned? And don't give me that freedom of speech shit, either.

In the digital age banning a book is nothing more than a symbolic action that does nothing to stop the spread of ideas contained in the book, regardless of 1st amendment issues with banning.

Crimes can be punished, ideas cannot be.

 

[WinterBorn]

A Christian parenting book which advocates beating your children? Why isn't such a book banned? And don't give me that freedom of speech shit, either.

In the digital age banning a book is nothing more than a symbolic action that does nothing to stop the spread of ideas contained in the book, regardless of 1st amendment issues with banning.

Crimes can be punished, ideas cannot be.

I agree. And even without this being the digital age, banning the book is not the answer and is the ultimate "slippery slope".

 

[Avatar4321]

A Christian parenting book which advocates beating your children? Why isn't such a book banned? And don't give me that freedom of speech shit, either.

Why on earth would you ban a book when it's such a good example of what not to do?

And yes freedom of speech. I know you don't really like people sharing ideas you don't like. But if we had to ban the speech of everyone who says stupid and evil things, the world would pretty much be silent. I know most this thread would.

 

[The Irish Ram]

It's clear that you have no clue what the New Testament is about.

Run along now.

Was the New Testament meant to overturn the laws of the Old?

Matthew 5:17 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill."

Yeah, good luck with that argument.

Matthew 10:34 "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."

Luke 12:46 "The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers."
Luke 12:47 "And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes."

Acts 3:23 "And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people."

Romans 1:31 "Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:"
Romans 1:32 "Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. "

1 Corinthians 10:9 "Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents."
1 Corinthians 10:10 "Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer."

Ephesians 1:4 "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:"
Ephesians 1:5 "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,"
That's right, God CREATED you to go to heaven or hell, it is not your actions which get you there.

Now for the good part...

Matthew 15:4 "For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death."
Mark 7:10 "For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:"
Proverbs 23:13-14 "Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you strike him with a rod, he will not die. If you strike him with the rod, you will save his soul from Sheol."

I know your New Testament. How well do you, really?

Shame you don't know Christ. How many children did He beat to death?

 

[daveman]

It's clear that you have no clue what the New Testament is about.

Run along now.

Was the New Testament meant to overturn the laws of the Old?

Matthew 5:17 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill."

Yeah, good luck with that argument.

Matthew 10:34 "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."

Luke 12:46 "The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers."
Luke 12:47 "And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes."

Acts 3:23 "And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people."

Romans 1:31 "Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:"
Romans 1:32 "Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. "

1 Corinthians 10:9 "Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents."
1 Corinthians 10:10 "Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer."

Ephesians 1:4 "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:"
Ephesians 1:5 "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,"
That's right, God CREATED you to go to heaven or hell, it is not your actions which get you there.

Now for the good part...

Matthew 15:4 "For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death."
Mark 7:10 "For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:"
Proverbs 23:13-14 "Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you strike him with a rod, he will not die. If you strike him with the rod, you will save his soul from Sheol."

I know your New Testament. How well do you, really?

Even Satan can quote Scripture.

Run along, now.