Annexing West Bank

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Annexing West Bank
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This list comes from the application of General Assembly Resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960 pertaining to Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples.

• Committee of 24 (Special Committee on Decolonization) •

The Special Committee on the Situation with regard to the Implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples (also known as the Special Committee on decolonization or C-24), the United Nations entity exclusively devoted to the issue of decolonization, was established in 1961 by the General Assembly with the purpose of monitoring the implementation of the Declaration (General Assembly Resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960).


The Special Committee annually reviews the list of Territories to which the Declaration is applicable and makes recommendations as to its implementation. It also hears statements from NSGTs representatives, dispatches visiting missions, and organizes seminars on the political, social and economic situation in the Territories. Further, the Special Committee annually makes recommendations concerning the dissemination of information to mobilize public opinion in support of the decolonization process, and observes the Week of Solidarity with the Peoples of Non-Self-Governing Territories.​

1. The subjection of peoples to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights, is contrary to the Charter of the United Nations and is an impediment to the promotion of world peace and co-operation.

2. All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.

3. Inadequacy of political, economic, social or educational preparedness should never serve as a pretext for delaying independence.

4. All armed action or repressive measures of all kinds directed against dependent peoples shall cease in order to enable them to exercise peacefully and freely their right to complete independence, and the integrity of their national territory shall be respected.

5. Immediate steps shall be taken, in Trust and Non-Self-Governing Territories or all other territories which have not yet attained independence, to transfer all powers to the peoples of those territories, without any conditions or reservations, in accordance with their freely expressed will and desire, without any distinction as to race, creed or colour, in order to enable them to enjoy complete independence and freedom.

6. Any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the national unity and the territorial integrity of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations.

7. All States shall observe faithfully and strictly the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the present Declaration on the basis of equality, non-interference in the internal affairs of all States, and respect for the sovereign rights of all peoples and their territorial integrity.​

(AND NOW FOR THE REST OF THE STORY)

If you actually go to the Committee 24 List of NSGTs, you will not find Palestine, the Occupied Territories, or the West Bank - Jerusalem - Gaza Strip listed. You will notice that there are 4 Colonial Administrating Powers remaining in the world (US, UK, France, New Zealand). At one point, the territories were held in trust under Article 77a of the UN Charter; but not since the creation of Committee 24. It is correct to say that "Israel" is not (identified by Committee 24 as) a Colonial Power over the occupied Palestinian territories (oPt). Further, the oPt are not listed as a colonial holding of any nation. There are a number of reasons for this (which I won't go into here), and a key point you should take away from this is that when the pro-Arab Palestinian advocates bring this up, they are quite deliberately injecting "misinformation" for propaganda purposes.

Now I have had pro-Arab Palestinian advocates imply that they know better than Committee 24 as to how to apply the Decolonization Program. You be the judge.

(COMMENT)

Items #1 thru #3 cited by our friend PF Tinmore, are relatively close to the intent of the Charter and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR). But it is important to note that:

◈ Israel is not involved thin the exploitation of the Arab Palestinians of the (socalled) oPt. Israel is not exploiting Arab Palestinians labor, or denying any fundemental human rights. However, Israel does attempt to meet the International Requirement to take such measures as may be necessary to restore, and ensure public order and safety, to the extent to such territory where Israeli authority has been established. (Hague Convention 1907)

◈ Israel has not denied the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank, Jerusalem, or Gaza Strip the right to self-determination and establish such a state able to stand by itself under the strenuous conditions of the modern world. Nor does Israel actually deny the Arab Palestinians the right to establish a corrupt government.

As many as 81% of the Palestinians living in the occupied Palestinian territory believe there is corruption in Palestinian Authority institutions according to a recent survey, perceptions reinforced by the recently launched annual report of the Palestinian Coalition for Accountability and Integrity (AMAN), the Transparency International chapter in Palestine. These perceptions persist despite former Prime Minister Salam Fayyad’s much-touted state-building efforts to root out corruption - and are at variance with international reports finding that suggest improvement in good governance.
SOURCE: Corruption in Palestine: A Self-Enforcing System, by Tariq Dana

Item #3 is absurd. Freedoms and the recognitions of those freedoms are not a "suicide pact;" no matter how traditional the suicide is to the Islamic culture. It is simply insane to suggest that any responsible patron for Palestinian would suggest the creation of another failed state. You simply don't do that; there must be a reasonable chance for success.

Item #4. Wrong! → Articles 42 and 43 of the Hague Convention. It is especially wrong when the proposed state in question has, imbedded within the governement, know terrorist sympathizers and government sponsored terrorist and terrorist organizations.

Items #5 thru #7 are merely variations on the theme already discussed, supra.

Most Respectfully,
R

Considering that the denial of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian
people to self-determination, sovereignty, independence and return to
Palestine and the repeated acts of aggression by Israel against the peoples of the region constitute a serious threat to international peace and security,

2. Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle;

3. Reaffirms the inalienable right of the Namibian people, the Palestinian people and all peoples under foreign and colonial domination to self-determination, national independence, territorial integrity, national unity and sovereignty without outside interference;

12. Strongly condemns the continued violations of the human rights of
the peoples still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, the continuation of the illegal occupation of Namibia, and South Africa's attempts to dismember its Territory, the perpetuation of the racist minority regime in southern Africa and the denial to the Palestinian people of their inalienable national rights;

12. Strongly condemns the continued violations of the human rights of
the peoples still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation the continuation of the illegal occupation of Namibia, and South Africa's attempts to dismember its Territory, the perpetuation of the racist minority regime in southern Africa and the denial to the Palestinian people of their inalienable national rights;

18. Strongly condemns those Governments that do not recognize the right to self-determination and independence of all peoples still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, notably the peoples of Africa and the Palestinian people;

A/RES/37/43. Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights

Just another rubber stamp UN opinion. Odd how the UN opinion speaks to "Israeli aggression", never defined or identified as to what that is, but the opinion never mentions continuing acts of islamic terrorism and acts of war aimed at Israel by multiple islamic terrorist franchises.

The UN similarly never addresses the failure of the Arabs-Moslems to make any concerted attempt at self-determination.

It's almost as though the UN opinion is just an exercise in wasting time.

never defined or identified as to what that is, but the opinion never mentions continuing acts of islamic terrorism and acts of war aimed at Israel

Yes it does.

2. Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle;​

I understand you want to insist the above grants an allowance for acts of war aimed at Israel and murderous acts of islamic terrorism but nothing prevents the Israeli government from affirming its right to self defense in the face of armed aggression.

Neither your korans, the Hamas charter nor a UN opinion will cause the Israeli government to abandon the protection of its citizenry.

Gee-had denied, sweetie.

Your gee-had canard is the Palestinians defending themselves from Israeli aggression.

 

[rylah]

RE: Annexing West Bank
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This list comes from the application of General Assembly Resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960 pertaining to Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples.

• Committee of 24 (Special Committee on Decolonization) •

The Special Committee on the Situation with regard to the Implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples (also known as the Special Committee on decolonization or C-24), the United Nations entity exclusively devoted to the issue of decolonization, was established in 1961 by the General Assembly with the purpose of monitoring the implementation of the Declaration (General Assembly Resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960).


The Special Committee annually reviews the list of Territories to which the Declaration is applicable and makes recommendations as to its implementation. It also hears statements from NSGTs representatives, dispatches visiting missions, and organizes seminars on the political, social and economic situation in the Territories. Further, the Special Committee annually makes recommendations concerning the dissemination of information to mobilize public opinion in support of the decolonization process, and observes the Week of Solidarity with the Peoples of Non-Self-Governing Territories.​

(AND NOW FOR THE REST OF THE STORY)

If you actually go to the Committee 24 List of NSGTs, you will not find Palestine, the Occupied Territories, or the West Bank - Jerusalem - Gaza Strip listed. You will notice that there are 4 Colonial Administrating Powers remaining in the world (US, UK, France, New Zealand). At one point, the territories were held in trust under Article 77a of the UN Charter; but not since the creation of Committee 24. It is correct to say that "Israel" is not (identified by Committee 24 as) a Colonial Power over the occupied Palestinian territories (oPt). Further, the oPt are not listed as a colonial holding of any nation. There are a number of reasons for this (which I won't go into here), and a key point you should take away from this is that when the pro-Arab Palestinian advocates bring this up, they are quite deliberately injecting "misinformation" for propaganda purposes.

Now I have had pro-Arab Palestinian advocates imply that they know better than Committee 24 as to how to apply the Decolonization Program. You be the judge.

(COMMENT)

Items #1 thru #3 cited by our friend PF Tinmore, are relatively close to the intent of the Charter and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR). But it is important to note that:

◈ Israel is not involved thin the exploitation of the Arab Palestinians of the (socalled) oPt. Israel is not exploiting Arab Palestinians labor, or denying any fundemental human rights. However, Israel does attempt to meet the International Requirement to take such measures as may be necessary to restore, and ensure public order and safety, to the extent to such territory where Israeli authority has been established. (Hague Convention 1907)

◈ Israel has not denied the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank, Jerusalem, or Gaza Strip the right to self-determination and establish such a state able to stand by itself under the strenuous conditions of the modern world. Nor does Israel actually deny the Arab Palestinians the right to establish a corrupt government.

​

Item #3 is absurd. Freedoms and the recognitions of those freedoms are not a "suicide pact;" no matter how traditional the suicide is to the Islamic culture. It is simply insane to suggest that any responsible patron for Palestinian would suggest the creation of another failed state. You simply don't do that; there must be a reasonable chance for success.

Item #4. Wrong! → Articles 42 and 43 of the Hague Convention. It is especially wrong when the proposed state in question has, imbedded within the governement, know terrorist sympathizers and government sponsored terrorist and terrorist organizations.

Items #5 thru #7 are merely variations on the theme already discussed, supra.

Most Respectfully,
R

Considering that the denial of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian
people to self-determination, sovereignty, independence and return to
Palestine and the repeated acts of aggression by Israel against the peoples of the region constitute a serious threat to international peace and security,

2. Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle;

3. Reaffirms the inalienable right of the Namibian people, the Palestinian people and all peoples under foreign and colonial domination to self-determination, national independence, territorial integrity, national unity and sovereignty without outside interference;

12. Strongly condemns the continued violations of the human rights of
the peoples still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, the continuation of the illegal occupation of Namibia, and South Africa's attempts to dismember its Territory, the perpetuation of the racist minority regime in southern Africa and the denial to the Palestinian people of their inalienable national rights;

12. Strongly condemns the continued violations of the human rights of
the peoples still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation the continuation of the illegal occupation of Namibia, and South Africa's attempts to dismember its Territory, the perpetuation of the racist minority regime in southern Africa and the denial to the Palestinian people of their inalienable national rights;

18. Strongly condemns those Governments that do not recognize the right to self-determination and independence of all peoples still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, notably the peoples of Africa and the Palestinian people;

A/RES/37/43. Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights

Just another rubber stamp UN opinion. Odd how the UN opinion speaks to "Israeli aggression", never defined or identified as to what that is, but the opinion never mentions continuing acts of islamic terrorism and acts of war aimed at Israel by multiple islamic terrorist franchises.

The UN similarly never addresses the failure of the Arabs-Moslems to make any concerted attempt at self-determination.

It's almost as though the UN opinion is just an exercise in wasting time.

never defined or identified as to what that is, but the opinion never mentions continuing acts of islamic terrorism and acts of war aimed at Israel

Yes it does.

2. Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle;​

I understand you want to insist the above grants an allowance for acts of war aimed at Israel and murderous acts of islamic terrorism but nothing prevents the Israeli government from affirming its right to self defense in the face of armed aggression.

Neither your korans, the Hamas charter nor a UN opinion will cause the Israeli government to abandon the protection of its citizenry.

Gee-had denied, sweetie.

Your gee-had canard is the Palestinians defending themselves from Israeli aggression.

And what was the excuse for Jihad before Israel?

 

[Shusha]

Here is the thing Shusha. We both strongly disagree on settlements and their impact on the peace process and we have gone down that road many times so I doubt we will change each others minds.

No...I do not think existing ones should be dismantled. And you forget...Jews will also have to accept Moooooslims living amongst them as well. How many Arab settlements are there in Area C?

Depends on where you get your stats, and how you count them, but, in all of Area C? About 250 Arab settlements.

Settlements or previously existing villages? Can you provide a link?

Define the difference between a settlement and a previously existing village. Objectively.

Settlements HAVE a definition, we dont get to make up our own.

Here is one definition from a pro-Israrli source: Facts About Jewish Settlements in the West Bank

The term “Settlements” usually refers to the towns and villages that Jews have established in Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) and the Gaza Strip since Israel captured the area in the Six-Day War of 1967. In many cases, the settlements are in the same area which flourishing Jewish communities have lived for thousands of years.​

And one from more of a pro-Palestinian view: Israeli settlement - Wikipedia

Israeli settlements are civilian communitiesinhabited by Israeli citizens, almost exclusively of Jewish ethnicity,[1][2] built predominantly on lands within the Palestinian territories, which Israel has militarily occupiedsince the 1967 Six-Day War,[3] and partly on lands considered Syrian territory also militarily occupied by Israel since the 1967 war. Such settlements within Palestinian territories currently exist in Area C of the West Bank and in East Jerusalem, and within Syrian territory in the Golan Heights.

​

If we tried for an objective definition it would be something lime this:

A deliberate program where one nation created settlements of foreign nationals in territory it took and occupied as a result of war who's status is not yet resolved. The time frame would be 1967 to present.

The existing definition is problematic. And so is your "objective" definition.

Your time frame is arbitrary. No, I take that back. Your time frame is chosen to deliberately to place responsibility solely on Israel. What about the 1948 occupation of the territory by Jordan and all the Arab settlements which resulted from that occupation. Such as "East" Jerusalem.

If the status of the territory is not resolved -- as in it has no nationality -- then all people would be foreign nationals.

What constitutes a "deliberate" program? For example, if a European country provides materials and labour to build a school, would that be considered deliberate?


Your whole premise starts at the wrong place. You should be starting with "there is territory which permanent status has not been established. Who is permitted to live there? Who is permitted to build there? Who is permitted to purchase property there?" Then at least you will have a CHANCE at building an objective definition.

 

[Hollie]

RE: Annexing West Bank
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This list comes from the application of General Assembly Resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960 pertaining to Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples.

• Committee of 24 (Special Committee on Decolonization) •

The Special Committee on the Situation with regard to the Implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples (also known as the Special Committee on decolonization or C-24), the United Nations entity exclusively devoted to the issue of decolonization, was established in 1961 by the General Assembly with the purpose of monitoring the implementation of the Declaration (General Assembly Resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960).


The Special Committee annually reviews the list of Territories to which the Declaration is applicable and makes recommendations as to its implementation. It also hears statements from NSGTs representatives, dispatches visiting missions, and organizes seminars on the political, social and economic situation in the Territories. Further, the Special Committee annually makes recommendations concerning the dissemination of information to mobilize public opinion in support of the decolonization process, and observes the Week of Solidarity with the Peoples of Non-Self-Governing Territories.​

(AND NOW FOR THE REST OF THE STORY)

If you actually go to the Committee 24 List of NSGTs, you will not find Palestine, the Occupied Territories, or the West Bank - Jerusalem - Gaza Strip listed. You will notice that there are 4 Colonial Administrating Powers remaining in the world (US, UK, France, New Zealand). At one point, the territories were held in trust under Article 77a of the UN Charter; but not since the creation of Committee 24. It is correct to say that "Israel" is not (identified by Committee 24 as) a Colonial Power over the occupied Palestinian territories (oPt). Further, the oPt are not listed as a colonial holding of any nation. There are a number of reasons for this (which I won't go into here), and a key point you should take away from this is that when the pro-Arab Palestinian advocates bring this up, they are quite deliberately injecting "misinformation" for propaganda purposes.

Now I have had pro-Arab Palestinian advocates imply that they know better than Committee 24 as to how to apply the Decolonization Program. You be the judge.

(COMMENT)

Items #1 thru #3 cited by our friend PF Tinmore, are relatively close to the intent of the Charter and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR). But it is important to note that:

◈ Israel is not involved thin the exploitation of the Arab Palestinians of the (socalled) oPt. Israel is not exploiting Arab Palestinians labor, or denying any fundemental human rights. However, Israel does attempt to meet the International Requirement to take such measures as may be necessary to restore, and ensure public order and safety, to the extent to such territory where Israeli authority has been established. (Hague Convention 1907)

◈ Israel has not denied the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank, Jerusalem, or Gaza Strip the right to self-determination and establish such a state able to stand by itself under the strenuous conditions of the modern world. Nor does Israel actually deny the Arab Palestinians the right to establish a corrupt government.

​

Item #3 is absurd. Freedoms and the recognitions of those freedoms are not a "suicide pact;" no matter how traditional the suicide is to the Islamic culture. It is simply insane to suggest that any responsible patron for Palestinian would suggest the creation of another failed state. You simply don't do that; there must be a reasonable chance for success.

Item #4. Wrong! → Articles 42 and 43 of the Hague Convention. It is especially wrong when the proposed state in question has, imbedded within the governement, know terrorist sympathizers and government sponsored terrorist and terrorist organizations.

Items #5 thru #7 are merely variations on the theme already discussed, supra.

Most Respectfully,
R

Considering that the denial of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian
people to self-determination, sovereignty, independence and return to
Palestine and the repeated acts of aggression by Israel against the peoples of the region constitute a serious threat to international peace and security,

2. Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle;

3. Reaffirms the inalienable right of the Namibian people, the Palestinian people and all peoples under foreign and colonial domination to self-determination, national independence, territorial integrity, national unity and sovereignty without outside interference;

12. Strongly condemns the continued violations of the human rights of
the peoples still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, the continuation of the illegal occupation of Namibia, and South Africa's attempts to dismember its Territory, the perpetuation of the racist minority regime in southern Africa and the denial to the Palestinian people of their inalienable national rights;

12. Strongly condemns the continued violations of the human rights of
the peoples still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation the continuation of the illegal occupation of Namibia, and South Africa's attempts to dismember its Territory, the perpetuation of the racist minority regime in southern Africa and the denial to the Palestinian people of their inalienable national rights;

18. Strongly condemns those Governments that do not recognize the right to self-determination and independence of all peoples still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, notably the peoples of Africa and the Palestinian people;

A/RES/37/43. Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights

Just another rubber stamp UN opinion. Odd how the UN opinion speaks to "Israeli aggression", never defined or identified as to what that is, but the opinion never mentions continuing acts of islamic terrorism and acts of war aimed at Israel by multiple islamic terrorist franchises.

The UN similarly never addresses the failure of the Arabs-Moslems to make any concerted attempt at self-determination.

It's almost as though the UN opinion is just an exercise in wasting time.

never defined or identified as to what that is, but the opinion never mentions continuing acts of islamic terrorism and acts of war aimed at Israel

Yes it does.

2. Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle;​

I understand you want to insist the above grants an allowance for acts of war aimed at Israel and murderous acts of islamic terrorism but nothing prevents the Israeli government from affirming its right to self defense in the face of armed aggression.

Neither your korans, the Hamas charter nor a UN opinion will cause the Israeli government to abandon the protection of its citizenry.

Gee-had denied, sweetie.

Your gee-had canard is the Palestinians defending themselves from Israeli aggression.

The Hamas charter contains the term "jihad" 11 (eleven) separate times.

The border gee-had being waged is not defensive. Islamic terrorist attacks aimed at Israel are not defensive, not when directed by an islamic terrorist franchise with a stated goal of destroying the Jewish State.

I couldn't help but notice you made no attempt to represent any positive steps taken by the Arabs-Moslems to achieve self-determination.

Would a functioning, viable government be a first step?

 

[Shusha]

RE: Annexing West Bank
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This list comes from the application of General Assembly Resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960 pertaining to Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples.

• Committee of 24 (Special Committee on Decolonization) •

The Special Committee on the Situation with regard to the Implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples (also known as the Special Committee on decolonization or C-24), the United Nations entity exclusively devoted to the issue of decolonization, was established in 1961 by the General Assembly with the purpose of monitoring the implementation of the Declaration (General Assembly Resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960).


The Special Committee annually reviews the list of Territories to which the Declaration is applicable and makes recommendations as to its implementation. It also hears statements from NSGTs representatives, dispatches visiting missions, and organizes seminars on the political, social and economic situation in the Territories. Further, the Special Committee annually makes recommendations concerning the dissemination of information to mobilize public opinion in support of the decolonization process, and observes the Week of Solidarity with the Peoples of Non-Self-Governing Territories.​

1. The subjection of peoples to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights, is contrary to the Charter of the United Nations and is an impediment to the promotion of world peace and co-operation.

2. All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.

3. Inadequacy of political, economic, social or educational preparedness should never serve as a pretext for delaying independence.

4. All armed action or repressive measures of all kinds directed against dependent peoples shall cease in order to enable them to exercise peacefully and freely their right to complete independence, and the integrity of their national territory shall be respected.

5. Immediate steps shall be taken, in Trust and Non-Self-Governing Territories or all other territories which have not yet attained independence, to transfer all powers to the peoples of those territories, without any conditions or reservations, in accordance with their freely expressed will and desire, without any distinction as to race, creed or colour, in order to enable them to enjoy complete independence and freedom.

6. Any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the national unity and the territorial integrity of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations.

7. All States shall observe faithfully and strictly the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the present Declaration on the basis of equality, non-interference in the internal affairs of all States, and respect for the sovereign rights of all peoples and their territorial integrity.​

(AND NOW FOR THE REST OF THE STORY)

If you actually go to the Committee 24 List of NSGTs, you will not find Palestine, the Occupied Territories, or the West Bank - Jerusalem - Gaza Strip listed. You will notice that there are 4 Colonial Administrating Powers remaining in the world (US, UK, France, New Zealand). At one point, the territories were held in trust under Article 77a of the UN Charter; but not since the creation of Committee 24. It is correct to say that "Israel" is not (identified by Committee 24 as) a Colonial Power over the occupied Palestinian territories (oPt). Further, the oPt are not listed as a colonial holding of any nation. There are a number of reasons for this (which I won't go into here), and a key point you should take away from this is that when the pro-Arab Palestinian advocates bring this up, they are quite deliberately injecting "misinformation" for propaganda purposes.

Now I have had pro-Arab Palestinian advocates imply that they know better than Committee 24 as to how to apply the Decolonization Program. You be the judge.

(COMMENT)

Items #1 thru #3 cited by our friend PF Tinmore, are relatively close to the intent of the Charter and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR). But it is important to note that:

◈ Israel is not involved thin the exploitation of the Arab Palestinians of the (socalled) oPt. Israel is not exploiting Arab Palestinians labor, or denying any fundemental human rights. However, Israel does attempt to meet the International Requirement to take such measures as may be necessary to restore, and ensure public order and safety, to the extent to such territory where Israeli authority has been established. (Hague Convention 1907)

◈ Israel has not denied the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank, Jerusalem, or Gaza Strip the right to self-determination and establish such a state able to stand by itself under the strenuous conditions of the modern world. Nor does Israel actually deny the Arab Palestinians the right to establish a corrupt government.

As many as 81% of the Palestinians living in the occupied Palestinian territory believe there is corruption in Palestinian Authority institutions according to a recent survey, perceptions reinforced by the recently launched annual report of the Palestinian Coalition for Accountability and Integrity (AMAN), the Transparency International chapter in Palestine. These perceptions persist despite former Prime Minister Salam Fayyad’s much-touted state-building efforts to root out corruption - and are at variance with international reports finding that suggest improvement in good governance.
SOURCE: Corruption in Palestine: A Self-Enforcing System, by Tariq Dana

Item #3 is absurd. Freedoms and the recognitions of those freedoms are not a "suicide pact;" no matter how traditional the suicide is to the Islamic culture. It is simply insane to suggest that any responsible patron for Palestinian would suggest the creation of another failed state. You simply don't do that; there must be a reasonable chance for success.

Item #4. Wrong! → Articles 42 and 43 of the Hague Convention. It is especially wrong when the proposed state in question has, imbedded within the governement, know terrorist sympathizers and government sponsored terrorist and terrorist organizations.

Items #5 thru #7 are merely variations on the theme already discussed, supra.

Most Respectfully,
R

Considering that the denial of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian
people to self-determination, sovereignty, independence and return to
Palestine and the repeated acts of aggression by Israel against the peoples of the region constitute a serious threat to international peace and security,

2. Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle;

3. Reaffirms the inalienable right of the Namibian people, the Palestinian people and all peoples under foreign and colonial domination to self-determination, national independence, territorial integrity, national unity and sovereignty without outside interference;

12. Strongly condemns the continued violations of the human rights of
the peoples still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, the continuation of the illegal occupation of Namibia, and South Africa's attempts to dismember its Territory, the perpetuation of the racist minority regime in southern Africa and the denial to the Palestinian people of their inalienable national rights;

12. Strongly condemns the continued violations of the human rights of
the peoples still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation the continuation of the illegal occupation of Namibia, and South Africa's attempts to dismember its Territory, the perpetuation of the racist minority regime in southern Africa and the denial to the Palestinian people of their inalienable national rights;

18. Strongly condemns those Governments that do not recognize the right to self-determination and independence of all peoples still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, notably the peoples of Africa and the Palestinian people;

A/RES/37/43. Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights

Exerting sovereignty over parts of Area C and declaring a boundary between Israel and Palestine is a step toward Palestine's self-determination. You should fully support this.

 

[rylah]

Instead of "Annexation",
wouldn't it be more correct if we used 'Liberation'?

 

[Coyote]

Here is the thing Shusha. We both strongly disagree on settlements and their impact on the peace process and we have gone down that road many times so I doubt we will change each others minds.

No...I do not think existing ones should be dismantled. And you forget...Jews will also have to accept Moooooslims living amongst them as well. How many Arab settlements are there in Area C?

Depends on where you get your stats, and how you count them, but, in all of Area C? About 250 Arab settlements.

Settlements or previously existing villages? Can you provide a link?

Define the difference between a settlement and a previously existing village. Objectively.

Settlements HAVE a definition, we dont get to make up our own.

Here is one definition from a pro-Israrli source: Facts About Jewish Settlements in the West Bank

The term “Settlements” usually refers to the towns and villages that Jews have established in Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) and the Gaza Strip since Israel captured the area in the Six-Day War of 1967. In many cases, the settlements are in the same area which flourishing Jewish communities have lived for thousands of years.​

And one from more of a pro-Palestinian view: Israeli settlement - Wikipedia

Israeli settlements are civilian communitiesinhabited by Israeli citizens, almost exclusively of Jewish ethnicity,[1][2] built predominantly on lands within the Palestinian territories, which Israel has militarily occupiedsince the 1967 Six-Day War,[3] and partly on lands considered Syrian territory also militarily occupied by Israel since the 1967 war. Such settlements within Palestinian territories currently exist in Area C of the West Bank and in East Jerusalem, and within Syrian territory in the Golan Heights.

​

If we tried for an objective definition it would be something lime this:

A deliberate program where one nation created settlements of foreign nationals in territory it took and occupied as a result of war who's status is not yet resolved. The time frame would be 1967 to present.

The existing definition is problematic. And so is your "objective" definition.

Your time frame is arbitrary. No, I take that back. Your time frame is chosen to deliberately to place responsibility solely on Israel. What about the 1948 occupation of the territory by Jordan and all the Arab settlements which resulted from that occupation. Such as "East" Jerusalem.

If the status of the territory is not resolved -- as in it has no nationality -- then all people would be foreign nationals.

What constitutes a "deliberate" program? For example, if a European country provides materials and labour to build a school, would that be considered deliberate?


Your whole premise starts at the wrong place. You should be starting with "there is territory which permanent status has not been established. Who is permitted to live there? Who is permitted to build there? Who is permitted to purchase property there?" Then at least you will have a CHANCE at building an objective definition.

My time framework isn't the least bit arbritrary because the definition is related to specific events.

How many Arab settlements have been permitted to be constructed in Area C since Israel gained control of it? If it should be open to anyone then....why no new Arab settlements? What you want to do is create a definition so open as to be meaningless.

Settlements = communities - village, town, etc., housing for people to live in, the bringing in of human beings into that area from outside that area for the purpose of residing there.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Shusha
Exerting sovereignty over parts of Area C and declaring a boundary between Israel and Palestine is a step toward Palestine's self-determination. You should fully support this.

The annexation of large chunks of the West Bank is indeed a big step toward palestinian self-determination, just not in the way the zionists of the US Message Board think it will be.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Originally posted by Shusha
Exerting sovereignty over parts of Area C and declaring a boundary between Israel and Palestine is a step toward Palestine's self-determination. You should fully support this.

The annexation of large chunks of the West Bank is indeed a big step toward palestinian self-determination, just not in the way the zionists of the US Message Board think it will be.

Explain.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Annexing West Bank
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh, what foolishness.

Yes it does.

2. Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle;​

(COMMENT)

There is no International law that contains that passage. Why? Because the Doctrine clearly says, the - Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation 24 OCT 1970.

Every State has the duty to refrain in its international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations. Such a threat or use of force constitutes a violation of international law and the Charter of the United Nations and shall never be employed as a means of settling international issues.

In accordance with the purposes and principles of the United Nations, States have the duty to refrain from propaganda for wars of aggression.

Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.

This concept the Arab Palestinians cling to armed struggle by any and all means comes from:

Article 9: Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. This is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase. The Palestinian Arab people assert their absolute determination and firm resolution to continue their armed struggle and to work for an armed popular revolution for the liberation of their country and their return to it. They also assert their right to normal life in Palestine and to exercise their right to self-determination and sovereignty over it.

There were several attempts to make the use of terrorism (any and all means) legal. During the period 1974 thru 1978, Palestinian Terrorist made:

◈ 1974 Kiryat Shmona Massacre at an apartment building by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine Palestinian terrorists
◈ 1974 Maalot Massacre at the Maalot High School in Northern Israel by Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine Palestinian terrorists
◈ 1974 TWA Flight 841
◈ 1975 Tel Aviv Savoy Hotel guest attacked by Palestinian PLO terrorists
◈ 1976 Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine Palestinian terrorists Hijacking of Air France Flight 139
◈ 1977, October 13 Lufthansa flight LH 181 was kidnapped by a group of four Arabs around the leader "Captain Martyr Mahmud".
◈ 1978 Palestinian Fatah terrorists (including the recently honored Dalal al-Maghribi) on the Tel Aviv - Haifa highway killed 38.
​

This was a clear and successful effort by elements with the UN to incite Palestinian Terrorist into making additional attacks under the color of law.

◈ A/RES/3246 (XXIX) • Armed Struggle - All Means • 29 November 1974

◈ A/RES/33/24 • Armed Struggle - All Means • 29 November 1978​

The Arab Palestinians of the West Bank, Jerusalem and Gaza Strip are overwhelming a collection of lawless groups held together by a common theme. The Arab Palestinians support Criminal Acts directed against Israel (and allies) with the intention of - or calculated to - cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate the Israeli population and to compel the Israeli government to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objectives of the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank, Jerusalem and Gaza Strip.

Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:

(a) Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;

(b)Prevent such conduct;

(c) Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credibleand relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have beenguilty of such conduct;​

I (personally) consider pro-Arab Palestinian activist that promote, suggest, or encourage Arab Palestinian tto pursue "armed struggle by any and all means" to be → unindicted co-conspirators in the violation of the "Prohibition by International Law against incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts."

Just My Thought as a Layman,
Most Respectfully,
R

 

[rylah]

Depends on where you get your stats, and how you count them, but, in all of Area C? About 250 Arab settlements.

Settlements or previously existing villages? Can you provide a link?

Define the difference between a settlement and a previously existing village. Objectively.

Settlements HAVE a definition, we dont get to make up our own.

Here is one definition from a pro-Israrli source: Facts About Jewish Settlements in the West Bank

The term “Settlements” usually refers to the towns and villages that Jews have established in Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) and the Gaza Strip since Israel captured the area in the Six-Day War of 1967. In many cases, the settlements are in the same area which flourishing Jewish communities have lived for thousands of years.​

And one from more of a pro-Palestinian view: Israeli settlement - Wikipedia

Israeli settlements are civilian communitiesinhabited by Israeli citizens, almost exclusively of Jewish ethnicity,[1][2] built predominantly on lands within the Palestinian territories, which Israel has militarily occupiedsince the 1967 Six-Day War,[3] and partly on lands considered Syrian territory also militarily occupied by Israel since the 1967 war. Such settlements within Palestinian territories currently exist in Area C of the West Bank and in East Jerusalem, and within Syrian territory in the Golan Heights.

​

If we tried for an objective definition it would be something lime this:

A deliberate program where one nation created settlements of foreign nationals in territory it took and occupied as a result of war who's status is not yet resolved. The time frame would be 1967 to present.

The existing definition is problematic. And so is your "objective" definition.

Your time frame is arbitrary. No, I take that back. Your time frame is chosen to deliberately to place responsibility solely on Israel. What about the 1948 occupation of the territory by Jordan and all the Arab settlements which resulted from that occupation. Such as "East" Jerusalem.

If the status of the territory is not resolved -- as in it has no nationality -- then all people would be foreign nationals.

What constitutes a "deliberate" program? For example, if a European country provides materials and labour to build a school, would that be considered deliberate?


Your whole premise starts at the wrong place. You should be starting with "there is territory which permanent status has not been established. Who is permitted to live there? Who is permitted to build there? Who is permitted to purchase property there?" Then at least you will have a CHANCE at building an objective definition.

My time framework isn't the least bit arbritrary because the definition is related to specific events.

How many Arab settlements have been permitted to be constructed in Area C since Israel gained control of it? If it should be open to anyone then....why no new Arab settlements? What you want to do is create a definition so open as to be meaningless.

Settlements = communities - village, town, etc., housing for people to live in, the bringing in of human beings into that area from outside that area for the purpose of residing there.

This is indeed what the word settlement means, at least in Hebrew.
A community in a village, one from a year ago and one from time immemorial, same word.

The ancient Jewish community in Israel before the Zionist immigration was as well called a settlement, I guess because of lack of a better comparable term, the connotation of being a foreigner comes only from English.

A village is indeed what a settlement means when Israelis use the term.

 

[José]

Originally posted by ForeverYoung436
Explain.

For 40 years the South African government desperately tried to convince the rest of the world that the small, shambolic, disjointed sprinkling of areas that constituted the Bantu Homelands were real, legitimate national territories where the black population of South Africa could exert their "right to self-determination".

For 40 years the world replied that the only thing the impoverished black enclaves represented was the territorial expansionism of the white supremacist state, the "self-determination" of racist South Africa to impose on the black population a series of disconnected ethnic corrals ruled by puppet regimes and under strong international pressure the country ended up in the trash can of History before the century was out.

Israel will soon find itself in the same situation as South Africa, desperately trying to prove to the international community that the small, patchy territories in the West Bank constitute a legitimate political entity.

So the annexation of all or at least some settlements in the West Bank is another nail in the coffin of the jewish racial dictatorship.

Quite frankly, zionists who value the concept of the jewish safe haven more than they do the territorial integrity of the area established by the british mandate should be crying not celebrating the annexation.

 

[rylah]

Originally posted by ForeverYoung436
Explain.

For 40 years the South African government desperately tried to convince the rest of the world that the small, shambolic, disjointed sprinkling of areas that constituted the Bantu Homelands were real, legitimate national territories where the black population of South African could exert their "right to self-determination".

For 40 years the world replied the only thing the impoverished black enclaves represented was the territorial expansionism of the white supremacist state, the "self-determination" of racist South Africa to impose on the black population a series of disconnected ethnic corrals ruled by puppet regimes.

Israel will soon find itself in the same situation as South Africa, desperately trying to prove to the international community that the small, patchy territories in the West Bank constitute a legitimate political entity.

So the annexation of all or at least some settlements in the West Bank is another nail in the coffin of the jewish racial dictatorship.

Quite frankly, zionists who value the concept of the jewish safe haven more than they do the territorial integrity of the area established by the british mandate should be crying not celebrating the annexation.

So You try to make it about skin color?
Let's see You dance around that for a while...

 

[Shusha]

My time framework isn't the least bit arbritrary because the definition is related to specific events.

But why THAT event. Why not the 1948 event which removed Jews from places where Jews lived and to which Jews wish to return?

What you want to do is create a definition so open as to be meaningless.

Well no. I want to demonstrate the inherent bias of your thinking.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Annexing West Bank
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh, what foolishness.

Yes it does.

2. Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle;​

(COMMENT)

There is no International law that contains that passage. Why? Because the Doctrine clearly says, the - Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation 24 OCT 1970.

Every State has the duty to refrain in its international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations. Such a threat or use of force constitutes a violation of international law and the Charter of the United Nations and shall never be employed as a means of settling international issues.

In accordance with the purposes and principles of the United Nations, States have the duty to refrain from propaganda for wars of aggression.

Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.

This concept the Arab Palestinians cling to armed struggle by any and all means comes from:

Article 9: Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. This is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase. The Palestinian Arab people assert their absolute determination and firm resolution to continue their armed struggle and to work for an armed popular revolution for the liberation of their country and their return to it. They also assert their right to normal life in Palestine and to exercise their right to self-determination and sovereignty over it.

There were several attempts to make the use of terrorism (any and all means) legal. During the period 1974 thru 1978, Palestinian Terrorist made:

◈ 1974 Kiryat Shmona Massacre at an apartment building by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine Palestinian terrorists
◈ 1974 Maalot Massacre at the Maalot High School in Northern Israel by Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine Palestinian terrorists
◈ 1974 TWA Flight 841
◈ 1975 Tel Aviv Savoy Hotel guest attacked by Palestinian PLO terrorists
◈ 1976 Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine Palestinian terrorists Hijacking of Air France Flight 139
◈ 1977, October 13 Lufthansa flight LH 181 was kidnapped by a group of four Arabs around the leader "Captain Martyr Mahmud".
◈ 1978 Palestinian Fatah terrorists (including the recently honored Dalal al-Maghribi) on the Tel Aviv - Haifa highway killed 38.
​

This was a clear and successful effort by elements with the UN to incite Palestinian Terrorist into making additional attacks under the color of law.

◈ A/RES/3246 (XXIX) • Armed Struggle - All Means • 29 November 1974

◈ A/RES/33/24 • Armed Struggle - All Means • 29 November 1978​

The Arab Palestinians of the West Bank, Jerusalem and Gaza Strip are overwhelming a collection of lawless groups held together by a common theme. The Arab Palestinians support Criminal Acts directed against Israel (and allies) with the intention of - or calculated to - cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate the Israeli population and to compel the Israeli government to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objectives of the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank, Jerusalem and Gaza Strip.

Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:

(a) Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;

(b)Prevent such conduct;

(c) Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credibleand relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have beenguilty of such conduct;​

I (personally) consider pro-Arab Palestinian activist that promote, suggest, or encourage Arab Palestinian tto pursue "armed struggle by any and all means" to be → unindicted co-conspirators in the violation of the "Prohibition by International Law against incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts."

Just My Thought as a Layman,
Most Respectfully,
R

Unprovoked occupation/colonization is the initial aggression. The Palestinians have been defending themselves for a hundred years.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Considering that the denial of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian
people to self-determination, sovereignty, independence and return to
Palestine and the repeated acts of aggression by Israel against the peoples of the region constitute a serious threat to international peace and security,

2. Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle;

3. Reaffirms the inalienable right of the Namibian people, the Palestinian people and all peoples under foreign and colonial domination to self-determination, national independence, territorial integrity, national unity and sovereignty without outside interference;

12. Strongly condemns the continued violations of the human rights of
the peoples still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, the continuation of the illegal occupation of Namibia, and South Africa's attempts to dismember its Territory, the perpetuation of the racist minority regime in southern Africa and the denial to the Palestinian people of their inalienable national rights;

12. Strongly condemns the continued violations of the human rights of
the peoples still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation the continuation of the illegal occupation of Namibia, and South Africa's attempts to dismember its Territory, the perpetuation of the racist minority regime in southern Africa and the denial to the Palestinian people of their inalienable national rights;

18. Strongly condemns those Governments that do not recognize the right to self-determination and independence of all peoples still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, notably the peoples of Africa and the Palestinian people;

A/RES/37/43. Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights

Just another rubber stamp UN opinion. Odd how the UN opinion speaks to "Israeli aggression", never defined or identified as to what that is, but the opinion never mentions continuing acts of islamic terrorism and acts of war aimed at Israel by multiple islamic terrorist franchises.

The UN similarly never addresses the failure of the Arabs-Moslems to make any concerted attempt at self-determination.

It's almost as though the UN opinion is just an exercise in wasting time.

never defined or identified as to what that is, but the opinion never mentions continuing acts of islamic terrorism and acts of war aimed at Israel

Yes it does.

2. Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle;​

I understand you want to insist the above grants an allowance for acts of war aimed at Israel and murderous acts of islamic terrorism but nothing prevents the Israeli government from affirming its right to self defense in the face of armed aggression.

Neither your korans, the Hamas charter nor a UN opinion will cause the Israeli government to abandon the protection of its citizenry.

Gee-had denied, sweetie.

Your gee-had canard is the Palestinians defending themselves from Israeli aggression.

And what was the excuse for Jihad before Israel?

I never said that there were no conflicts any time in the past. But, if you have to go back almost a hundreds years to find one, with no context, it does not look like a systemic problem.

 

[Hollie]

Just another rubber stamp UN opinion. Odd how the UN opinion speaks to "Israeli aggression", never defined or identified as to what that is, but the opinion never mentions continuing acts of islamic terrorism and acts of war aimed at Israel by multiple islamic terrorist franchises.

The UN similarly never addresses the failure of the Arabs-Moslems to make any concerted attempt at self-determination.

It's almost as though the UN opinion is just an exercise in wasting time.

never defined or identified as to what that is, but the opinion never mentions continuing acts of islamic terrorism and acts of war aimed at Israel

Yes it does.

2. Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle;​

I understand you want to insist the above grants an allowance for acts of war aimed at Israel and murderous acts of islamic terrorism but nothing prevents the Israeli government from affirming its right to self defense in the face of armed aggression.

Neither your korans, the Hamas charter nor a UN opinion will cause the Israeli government to abandon the protection of its citizenry.

Gee-had denied, sweetie.

Your gee-had canard is the Palestinians defending themselves from Israeli aggression.

And what was the excuse for Jihad before Israel?

I never said that there were no conflicts any time in the past. But, if you have to go back almost a hundreds years to find one, with no context, it does not look like a systemic problem.

There was little conflict when the Ottoman Empire was able to impose the dhimmi status on the non-Moslems.

 

[Hollie]

RE: Annexing West Bank
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh, what foolishness.

Yes it does.

2. Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle;​

(COMMENT)

There is no International law that contains that passage. Why? Because the Doctrine clearly says, the - Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation 24 OCT 1970.

Every State has the duty to refrain in its international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations. Such a threat or use of force constitutes a violation of international law and the Charter of the United Nations and shall never be employed as a means of settling international issues.

In accordance with the purposes and principles of the United Nations, States have the duty to refrain from propaganda for wars of aggression.

Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.

This concept the Arab Palestinians cling to armed struggle by any and all means comes from:

Article 9: Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. This is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase. The Palestinian Arab people assert their absolute determination and firm resolution to continue their armed struggle and to work for an armed popular revolution for the liberation of their country and their return to it. They also assert their right to normal life in Palestine and to exercise their right to self-determination and sovereignty over it.

There were several attempts to make the use of terrorism (any and all means) legal. During the period 1974 thru 1978, Palestinian Terrorist made:

◈ 1974 Kiryat Shmona Massacre at an apartment building by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine Palestinian terrorists
◈ 1974 Maalot Massacre at the Maalot High School in Northern Israel by Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine Palestinian terrorists
◈ 1974 TWA Flight 841
◈ 1975 Tel Aviv Savoy Hotel guest attacked by Palestinian PLO terrorists
◈ 1976 Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine Palestinian terrorists Hijacking of Air France Flight 139
◈ 1977, October 13 Lufthansa flight LH 181 was kidnapped by a group of four Arabs around the leader "Captain Martyr Mahmud".
◈ 1978 Palestinian Fatah terrorists (including the recently honored Dalal al-Maghribi) on the Tel Aviv - Haifa highway killed 38.
​

This was a clear and successful effort by elements with the UN to incite Palestinian Terrorist into making additional attacks under the color of law.

◈ A/RES/3246 (XXIX) • Armed Struggle - All Means • 29 November 1974

◈ A/RES/33/24 • Armed Struggle - All Means • 29 November 1978​

The Arab Palestinians of the West Bank, Jerusalem and Gaza Strip are overwhelming a collection of lawless groups held together by a common theme. The Arab Palestinians support Criminal Acts directed against Israel (and allies) with the intention of - or calculated to - cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate the Israeli population and to compel the Israeli government to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objectives of the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank, Jerusalem and Gaza Strip.

Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:

(a) Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;

(b)Prevent such conduct;

(c) Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credibleand relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have beenguilty of such conduct;​

I (personally) consider pro-Arab Palestinian activist that promote, suggest, or encourage Arab Palestinian tto pursue "armed struggle by any and all means" to be → unindicted co-conspirators in the violation of the "Prohibition by International Law against incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts."

Just My Thought as a Layman,
Most Respectfully,
R

Unprovoked occupation/colonization is the initial aggression. The Palestinians have been defending themselves for a hundred years.

When you whine about “unprovoked occupation/colonization” you mean the Islamic conquest/ occupation/ colonization, right?

Or, do you make an arbitrary allowance for Islamic conquest/ occupation/ colonization and only assign your condemnation when an invitation was extended to the Jewish people to reconstitute their homeland.

 

[rylah]

RE: Annexing West Bank
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh, what foolishness.

Yes it does.

2. Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle;​

(COMMENT)

There is no International law that contains that passage. Why? Because the Doctrine clearly says, the - Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation 24 OCT 1970.

Every State has the duty to refrain in its international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations. Such a threat or use of force constitutes a violation of international law and the Charter of the United Nations and shall never be employed as a means of settling international issues.

In accordance with the purposes and principles of the United Nations, States have the duty to refrain from propaganda for wars of aggression.

Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.

This concept the Arab Palestinians cling to armed struggle by any and all means comes from:

Article 9: Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. This is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase. The Palestinian Arab people assert their absolute determination and firm resolution to continue their armed struggle and to work for an armed popular revolution for the liberation of their country and their return to it. They also assert their right to normal life in Palestine and to exercise their right to self-determination and sovereignty over it.

There were several attempts to make the use of terrorism (any and all means) legal. During the period 1974 thru 1978, Palestinian Terrorist made:

◈ 1974 Kiryat Shmona Massacre at an apartment building by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine Palestinian terrorists
◈ 1974 Maalot Massacre at the Maalot High School in Northern Israel by Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine Palestinian terrorists
◈ 1974 TWA Flight 841
◈ 1975 Tel Aviv Savoy Hotel guest attacked by Palestinian PLO terrorists
◈ 1976 Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine Palestinian terrorists Hijacking of Air France Flight 139
◈ 1977, October 13 Lufthansa flight LH 181 was kidnapped by a group of four Arabs around the leader "Captain Martyr Mahmud".
◈ 1978 Palestinian Fatah terrorists (including the recently honored Dalal al-Maghribi) on the Tel Aviv - Haifa highway killed 38.
​

This was a clear and successful effort by elements with the UN to incite Palestinian Terrorist into making additional attacks under the color of law.

◈ A/RES/3246 (XXIX) • Armed Struggle - All Means • 29 November 1974

◈ A/RES/33/24 • Armed Struggle - All Means • 29 November 1978​

The Arab Palestinians of the West Bank, Jerusalem and Gaza Strip are overwhelming a collection of lawless groups held together by a common theme. The Arab Palestinians support Criminal Acts directed against Israel (and allies) with the intention of - or calculated to - cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate the Israeli population and to compel the Israeli government to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objectives of the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank, Jerusalem and Gaza Strip.

Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:

(a) Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;

(b)Prevent such conduct;

(c) Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credibleand relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have beenguilty of such conduct;​

I (personally) consider pro-Arab Palestinian activist that promote, suggest, or encourage Arab Palestinian tto pursue "armed struggle by any and all means" to be → unindicted co-conspirators in the violation of the "Prohibition by International Law against incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts."

Just My Thought as a Layman,
Most Respectfully,
R

Unprovoked occupation/colonization is the initial aggression. The Palestinians have been defending themselves for a hundred years.

Unprovoked what??!

We have already discussed it several times, and You always run like a scared Jihadi duck.
Fact is Zionism was a RESPONSE to a wave of Arab pogroms against Palestinian Jews
and the Jewish communities all around the Caliphate.

How can Arabs claim to be occupied if they can't even pronounce the word "Palestine"?

 

[Hollie]

Originally posted by ForeverYoung436
Explain.

For 40 years the South African government desperately tried to convince the rest of the world that the small, shambolic, disjointed sprinkling of areas that constituted the Bantu Homelands were real, legitimate national territories where the black population of South Africa could exert their "right to self-determination".

For 40 years the world replied that the only thing the impoverished black enclaves represented was the territorial expansionism of the white supremacist state, the "self-determination" of racist South Africa to impose on the black population a series of disconnected ethnic corrals ruled by puppet regimes and under strong international pressure the country ended up in the trash can of History before the century was out.

Israel will soon find itself in the same situation as South Africa, desperately trying to prove to the international community that the small, patchy territories in the West Bank constitute a legitimate political entity.

So the annexation of all or at least some settlements in the West Bank is another nail in the coffin of the jewish racial dictatorship.

Quite frankly, zionists who value the concept of the jewish safe haven more than they do the territorial integrity of the area established by the british mandate should be crying not celebrating the annexation.

I guess this would be a bad time to acknowledge your phony contrivances while you celebrate a Jew-free Gaza.