An Informal Debate on Race Relations in the United States Including Its History

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

So just to be clear, ya'll don't wish to talk about racism, just about white racism, is that right?



Maybe whites are still doing better because we come from a superior culture, with superior values. Maybe adopting those values and that culture would go a long way towards equalizing outcomes. But if folks choose not to use tactics proven to succeed, and instead keep on doing shit that has failed for generations, then that's on them.
And that's not systemic racism, that's a wide-scale failure to get one's shit together.

And you don't call this white supremacy?

 

[OldLady]

So this is from your state and I'm just including the pertienent parts however the entire declarion can be accessed via this hyperlink:

A declaration of the causes which impel the State of Texas to secede from the Federal Union

"[snipped]
...Texas abandoned her separate national existence and consented to become one of the Confederated States to promote her welfare, insure domestic tranquility [sic] and secure more substantially the blessings of peace and liberty to her people. She was received into the confederacy with her own constitution, under the guarantee of the federal constitution and the compact of annexation, that she should enjoy these blessings. She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery--the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits--a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time. [snipped]

In all the non-slave-holding States, in violation of that good faith and comity which should exist between entirely distinct nations, the people have formed themselves into a great sectional party, now strong enough in numbers to control the affairs of each of those States, based upon the unnatural feeling of hostility to these Southern States and their beneficent and patriarchal system of African slavery, proclaiming the debasing doctrine of the equality of all men, irrespective of race or color--a doctrine at war with nature, in opposition to the experience of mankind, and in violation of the plainest revelations of the Divine Law. [snipped]

We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.

That in this free government all white men are and of right ought to be entitled to equal civil and political rights; that the servitude of the African race, as existing in these States, is mutually beneficial to both bond and free, and is abundantly authorized and justified by the experience of mankind, and the revealed will of the Almighty Creator, as recognized by all Christian nations; while the destruction of the existing relations between the two races, as advocated by our sectional enemies, would bring inevitable calamities upon both and desolation upon the fifteen slave-holding States.

ouch!
Us Yankees never heard such talk....never.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Hey everyone, I forgot to wish all of the dads here Happy Father's Day! And thank you all again for agreeing to participate in this discussion.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Well, I'm not really trying to convince anyone of anything; I don't actually care what people believe or feel. I do care how they act, but that's really about it.
He is a racist and a con man trying to manipulate people. I like to call people like that out; it's fun for me.

Well your assessment is faulty.

 

[Coyote]

Isn't this true for any group though? Some people you have a natural affinity for and others you don't. Rarely is it because of race.

I wonder about that. And I will admit this discussion can be uncomfortable.

A little bit about me. I was born in 1959, but we lived overseas during much of the civil rights era. I grew up in the DC suburbs and blacks were a minority...but I don’t recall racist sentiments. This might be because, where we lived...there were kids of diplomats, from many countries. But regardless it was mostly white.

As a young adult, I worked for NASA...in DC, clerical. In my position, I was the minority. Most of my coworkers, and workplace friends were black. I will say that socially ...we shopped together, I was introduced to to bold new fashions I was too timid to try befor, and we had fun. But on hindsight I am cognizant that while blacks occupied the majority of my rung, and lower management...above that it was entirely white...1980’s.

Now...occupationaly...I am in the same type of job, but live in a majority white state. And I am not clear on what race relations are in WV. On the one hand, I have a neighbor who referred to the n***** in the White House...on the other, I see far more interracial marriages then I ever saw in DC.

I also..as a majority feel a bit more on the outside. If I encounter a group of African Americans, I wonder if they will accept me?

 

[IM2]

What is a race pimp and what has IM2 ever done to deserve that title?

And again, please stop the personal attacks and insults. This is the second time I've had to ask.

Apparently he is one of those type who believe discussing the errors whites have made regarding race is race pimping .

 

[Coyote]

Ahh... but you are removing the fact that there is choice.
As I said in the other thread, there is a HUGE difference in culture and statistics between inner-city blacks and suburban blacks. If you compared statistics between these two people, and treated black suburbans as another race - you would say the black suburbans are the privileged and there must be racism between the two.
The difference in statistics between black suburbans and inner city blacks are equal to the difference between them and whites. - How do you explain that Oldlady?

I can see the merit here...the assumption that all blacks are the same,vote the same...or should...etc.

It seems to me peop,e I. Different economic sectors or areas of the country would, like the white population have different priorities.

 

[freyasman]

You like beating up on people (you specifically mentioned "loud" "lower-class" black people) , you're hostile and think little of black people from what you've written. From your own writings you like getting phsyical/hands-on with people and dominating them (mounting them is what you wrote) that's why I mentioned in a previous thread that you sound like you work as a bouncer.

You exude aggression and I found it a little suprising that you train people in MOAB because from my observations you seem more like a person who would be ordered into anger management treatment.

So I was wondering if you've always been this way or did being in the military bring this out in you. That's I meant.

I had a violent and dysfunctional childhood that I turned into a good living. We actually had a "No gun fighting in the house " rule.
Compared to many people, I am laid back.
The guys who certified me as a MOAB instructor actually remarked on my ability to turn it on and off.

And mounting an opponent is a common MMA term; Google it.

 

[freyasman]

Actually I went back to try to find your comment and it appears that I was responding to something Iamwhatiseem had stated but in one of your threads.

So I was mistaken that you originally stated this, but since you're verified that is your opinion anyway, how about we start from there (I love it when that happens).

Please contribute something to the discussion other than insults.

Yeah you posted something about not being able to tell us apart didn't you?

 

[Porter Rockwell]

You aren't speaking truth. You are posting racism.

The people here when whites got here and there was no international right of conquest then nor has there ever been. I don't require my ass to be kissed, you're a racist and what you have posted is Christian Identity garbage.

You are a sorry ass liar. What fact was a lie?

The Right of Conquest: The Acquisition of Territory by Force in International Law and Practice. By Sharon Korman. Oxford, New York: Oxford University Press/Clarendon Press, 1996. Pp. ix, 323. Index. $72. | American Journal of International Law | Camb

The Right of Conquest: The Acquisition of Territory by Force in International Law and Practice. By Sharon Korman. Oxford, New York: Oxford University Press/Clarendon Press, 1996. Pp. ix, 323. Index. $72. - Volume 91 Issue 4

www.cambridge.org

International Law - conquest and discovery; colonization

You aren't in any kind of debate. You're in a shit slinging contest and I'm not a freaking primate. If you're allowed in any debate with this B.S. going on, the you are the DECLARED LOSER. Would you like to take a vote on it? OR do you have the guts to be IN a debate? Save your antics for Univer Soul Circus.

 

[freyasman]

So the only time you're polite is when you're being paid to do so? Is that like the only time a person acts as a decent human being is when they're paid to do so?

I guess I shouldn't be surprised by your attitude and just so we're clear I don't except anything from you. I personally however I believe I owe my fellow human beings common courtesy at least until they demonstrate that they don't deserve even that. It takes no more effort for me to be kind to others than to be insulting to them, in fact it takes less effort. I have always found it confounding that there are people in the world you don't even know me but who apparently hate me not due to anything that I've done to them or any of their loved ones, but simply because of who I am.

So back to the intelligence. Asclepias is not here but IM2 is. How are you measuring intelligence and just for the record this is not just idle curiosity on my part, I am truly interested in how you think, how your brain works.

I'm kind in my actions; talk is cheap.

And I'm smart enough not to fall for those two's bullshit.

 

[freyasman]

So this is from your state and I'm just including the pertienent parts however the entire declarion can be accessed via this hyperlink:

A declaration of the causes which impel the State of Texas to secede from the Federal Union

"[snipped]
...Texas abandoned her separate national existence and consented to become one of the Confederated States to promote her welfare, insure domestic tranquility [sic] and secure more substantially the blessings of peace and liberty to her people. She was received into the confederacy with her own constitution, under the guarantee of the federal constitution and the compact of annexation, that she should enjoy these blessings. She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery--the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits--a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time. [snipped]

In all the non-slave-holding States, in violation of that good faith and comity which should exist between entirely distinct nations, the people have formed themselves into a great sectional party, now strong enough in numbers to control the affairs of each of those States, based upon the unnatural feeling of hostility to these Southern States and their beneficent and patriarchal system of African slavery, proclaiming the debasing doctrine of the equality of all men, irrespective of race or color--a doctrine at war with nature, in opposition to the experience of mankind, and in violation of the plainest revelations of the Divine Law. [snipped]

We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.

That in this free government all white men are and of right ought to be entitled to equal civil and political rights; that the servitude of the African race, as existing in these States, is mutually beneficial to both bond and free, and is abundantly authorized and justified by the experience of mankind, and the revealed will of the Almighty Creator, as recognized by all Christian nations; while the destruction of the existing relations between the two races, as advocated by our sectional enemies, would bring inevitable calamities upon both and desolation upon the fifteen slave-holding States.

Good info, thanks.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

While it's obvious that you and most people on U.S. Message Board don't like IM2 however I don't believe it's for the reasons you state.

From what I know of IM2 the only people he detests (not going to use the word hate) are the white racists here who continue to denigrate and disparage him because he gives as good as he gets in response to the racial animosity directed at him.

I find it very intriguing however that you think he wants control over others, exactly in what capacity do you imagine this? And why are you afraid of that because for almost our entire lives white people have been in control of our job opportunites, our housing opportunities, educational opportunites, have been the police officers in our communities, etc. Why is it that you seem to think that if IM2 were in a position of authority that he would use it to abuse or hurt someone because that's what you're implying otherwise there would be no need to be frightened.

Are you going to judge this thread with that attitude? The lying piece of shit continues to lie about me. I promise you he never spews what he can say anonymously out in the public. He's a gutless coward, a black supremacist that any decent human being wouldn't spit on if he were burning in Hell fire.

 

[freyasman]

And you don't call this white supremacy?

It's cultural, not racial.

 

[Coyote]

Are you going to judge this thread with that attitude? The lying piece of shit continues to lie about me. I promise you he never spews what he can say anonymously out in the public. He's a gutless coward, a black supremacist that any decent human being wouldn't spit on if he were burning in Hell fire.

Porter, no flaming, this is like the CDZ...can you attack what he actually says?

 

[katsteve2012]

Isn't this true for any group though? Some people you have a natural affinity for and others you don't. Rarely is it because of race.

Of course it is true. There is a black talk show host named Joe Madison that I listen to daily on Sirius/XM radio.

One of his favorite quotes is "Your SKIN folks aren't always your KIN folks"......and how right he is....Lol.

 

[freyasman]

Apparently he is one of those type who believe discussing the errors whites have made regarding race is race pimping .

They weren't errors, they were deliberately done wrongs to maintain their status.
Every group does that.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Porter, no flaming, this is like the CDZ...can you attack what he actually says?

If no flaming is allowed, why has this idiot gotten away with calling me "Identity?" I told him he's lying and he continues. The CDZ protects his form of black supremacy. That is not conducive of any civil discourse; not allowed in any real debate. My point is I AM REFUTING ALL HE'S PUTTING ON THE TABLE. But, the badgering, name calling and what he's allowed to do is not conducive to anything except his hatred of whites that don't kiss his ass. Flaming? That coward knows full well what would happen if he went around in face to face encounters saying stuff that makes normal people go into a rage. Somebody should remind him that you can't have a debate when you have IM2 trying to derail the thread with false accusations.

 

[Coyote]

If no flaming is allowed, why has this idiot gotten away with calling me "Identity?" I told him he's lying and he continues. The CDZ protects his form of black supremacy. That is not conducive of any civil discourse; no allowed in any real debate. My point is I AM REFUTING ALL HE'S PUTTING ON THE TABLE. But, the badgering, name calling and what he's allowed to do is not conducive to anything except his hatred of whites that don't kiss his ass. Flaming? That coward knows full well what would happen if he went around in face to face encounters saying stuff that makes normal people go into a rage.

I am admittedly struggling to keep up with the flames, if you feel this has deviated from CDZ type format, could you report it or pm me?

 

[OldLady]

If no flaming is allowed, why has this idiot gotten away with calling me "Identity?" I told him he's lying and he continues. The CDZ protects his form of black supremacy. That is not conducive of any civil discourse; no allowed in any real debate. My point is I AM REFUTING ALL HE'S PUTTING ON THE TABLE. But, the badgering, name calling and what he's allowed to do is not conducive to anything except his hatred of whites that don't kiss his ass. Flaming? That coward knows full well what would happen if he went around in face to face encounters saying stuff that makes normal people go into a rage.

What you've said so far in this thread tells IM and every other black person in this conversation that they are not wanted, that this country was not meant for them and ... I don't know what follows from that. You haven't said, but I can understand why he spit a bit at it.