An ethical question

[Nuc]

If heaven forbid your family was brutually murdered, they caught the person with tons of DNA evidence and in your state there is no life in prison without parole so the person may only serve about 15 years with time off for good behavior would you still be opposed to the death penalty???

Obviously there are plenty of cases when the death penalty would be just. Especially when the victim is a child. I am against the death penalty because there is no doubt in my mind that as long as it exists, anywhere, there will be mistakes made and innocent people will be executed. I don't trust the state to get simple things right, like designing good roads and bridges, fair tax system, health care or basically anything. I can not trust the state with life and death isssues.

Remember, Jesus was executed by the state. And the Romans were more cultured people than Texans for example.

 

[Bonnie]

Obviously there are plenty of cases when the death penalty would be just. Especially when the victim is a child. I am against the death penalty because there is no doubt in my mind that as long as it exists, anywhere, there will be mistakes made and innocent people will be executed. I don't trust the state to get simple things right, like designing good roads and bridges, fair tax system, health care or basically anything. I can not trust the state with life and death isssues.

Remember, Jesus was executed by the state. And the Romans were more cultured people than Texans for example.

Which is why I suport Barry Scheck's project.

Reg Jesus, he was executed out of jealousy and fear done in a mob style mentality hardly the pinacle of culture and savvy. I would argue that many in Texas or anywhere else are well cultured and still support the death penalty in some cases.

 

[GotZoom]

Obviously there are plenty of cases when the death penalty would be just. Especially when the victim is a child. I am against the death penalty because there is no doubt in my mind that as long as it exists, anywhere, there will be mistakes made and innocent people will be executed. I don't trust the state to get simple things right, like designing good roads and bridges, fair tax system, health care or basically anything. I can not trust the state with life and death isssues.

Remember, Jesus was executed by the state. And the Romans were more cultured people than Texans for example.

The death penalty is just, in some cases. But you are against it in ALL cases?

So the answer to both of our questions is..

NO...you wouldn't want that person put to death?

 

[Nuc]

Yes...tell us nuc.....if your state did have the Death Penalty, would you be standing in front of the execution room begging for the government to give him mercy or would you be the first one wanting to throw the switch?

Let me reiterate my original question. People worship Jesus because he was martyred by an unjust government. How can they be in favor of the death penalty? It's not only against their faith, it's against the origin of their faith. If it was bad then, why is it good now? What changed?

Next point. Why do people who believe in redemption want to take away that opportunity by killing people before they have a chance to be redeemed?

I am not a biblical scholar because I don't believe in that religion, but was Jesus in favor of the death penalty?

 

[GotZoom]

Let me reiterate my original question. People worship Jesus because he was martyred by an unjust government. How can they be in favor of the death penalty? It's not only against their faith, it's against the origin of their faith. If it was bad then, why is it good now? What changed?

Next point. Why do people who believe in redemption want to take away that opportunity by killing people before they have a chance to be redeemed?

I am not a biblical scholar because I don't believe in that religion, but was Jesus in favor of the death penalty?

I think if you ask people who do worship Jesus why they do, you won't hear anyone say it is because he was martyred by an unjust government. There is that little "salvation", "son of God", "died for my sins so I can go to Heaven" thing.

You still haven't answered my question. Are you going to protest to keep your famlies killer alive or are you going to throw the switch?

 

[dilloduck]

Crossetarians against death penalty: The Pope

Crossetarians in favor of death penalty:

The Prez
People who voted for the Prez
Texans
Jeffrey Dahmer
Newt Gingrich
People on this forum

not everyone on this forum is for the death penalty

your generalizations belittle your points here---try accuracy and people might listen to you with more interest

 

[no1tovote4]

Obviously there are plenty of cases when the death penalty would be just. Especially when the victim is a child. I am against the death penalty because there is no doubt in my mind that as long as it exists, anywhere, there will be mistakes made and innocent people will be executed. I don't trust the state to get simple things right, like designing good roads and bridges, fair tax system, health care or basically anything. I can not trust the state with life and death isssues.

Remember, Jesus was executed by the state. And the Romans were more cultured people than Texans for example.

While I agree that the Government is likely to screw up the stupidest of things. The whole sarcasm about Romans being more "cultured" would depend on what you thought cultured was. Texans do not tend to take people out strap them to torture devices then watch them die while gambling for their clothes, and if a Texan did that they would be judged, convicted, and then summarily executed by the state in a much more kind and humane manner. The State itself executed what it knew to be an innocent man because of political pressure in Rome. Here the courts (a portion of the State) tell them more and more often that they have fewer people that they can legally execute. If a Judge stated, after a trial, we found you innocent but you will be executed anyway because the crowd outside really wants it Texans and the entire US would blow a gasket, not celebrate a job well done.

You must mean their proclivity for orgies and other deviant behaviors that spread disease, that must be what you mean by "cultured".

 

[Nuc]

You still haven't answered my question. Are you going to protest to keep your famlies killer alive or are you going to throw the switch?

I guess I wouldn't know the answer to that because I have not been in that position. The Pope forgave the guy who tried to shoot him.

If someone killed my family, if I knew who it was and there was not any doubt, if I had the opportunity, I'd consider taking care of the situation myself.

But that wouldn't be a governmental mechanism subject to flaw it would just be good old fashioned revenge.

 

[GotZoom]

I guess I wouldn't know the answer to that because I have not been in that position. The Pope forgave the guy who tried to shoot him.

If someone killed my family, if I knew who it was and there was not any doubt, if I had the opportunity, I'd consider taking care of the situation myself.

But that wouldn't be a governmental mechanism subject to flaw it would just be good old fashioned revenge.

Eye for an Eye, huh?

 

[Nuc]

While I agree that the Government is likely to screw up the stupidest of things. The whole sarcasm about Romans being more "cultured" would depend on what you thought cultured was.".

I guess I'm thinking the Pantheon and the Colosseum vs. Velvet Paintings of Elvis and ZZ Top. Strike that, I love ZZ Top. Can't you guys take a joke?

 

[Shattered]

Eye for an Eye, huh?

Noooo. That would be hypocritical.

 

[GotZoom]

Noooo. That would be hypocritical.

Shhhhhhhhh

 

[Shattered]

Shhhhhhhhh

Oh.. Sorry...

 

[Nuc]

Eye for an Eye, huh?

I differenciate between individual behavior and behavior sanctioned by institutions such as the church or the state. I think it's natural for individuals to indulge their animal instincts. On the other hand when you set up a government or a church or a school system for that matter, they have an obligation to rise to a higher level of conduct than simple mob rule. Sometimes they have to behave in ways that are contrary to emotion because it's the right thing to do.

 

[freeandfun1]

I differenciate between individual behavior and behavior sanctioned by institutions such as the church or the state. I think it's natural for individuals to indulge their animal instincts. On the other hand when you set up a government or a church or a school system for that matter, they have an obligation to rise to a higher level of conduct than simple mob rule. Sometimes they have to behave in ways that are contrary to emotion because it's the right thing to do.

So you're not for mob rule or the government dishing out punishment, but you are for vigilantism?

 

[Nuc]

So you're not for mob rule or the government dishing out punishment, but you are for vigilantism?

I'm not FOR it, but I am willing to admit that given the right circumstances I might not be able to resist. If I had something personal at stake.

When a government executes someone there is nothing personal at stake for either the government or the gleeful spectators. It's just blood lust.

Don't get me wrong, I used to be in favor of the death penalty. Many times it would be appropriate. But there have been too many examples of it being discharged unfairly. Besides that we do not really have a fair legal system. Wealthy people would have a much better chance of escaping the death penalty. Look at OJ.

 

[GotZoom]

So you're not for mob rule or the government dishing out punishment, but you are for vigilantism?

Right! As long as the vigilantism isn't sanctioned by the government.

Back to your family, your individual feeling would be for the murderer to be put to death, but not by the government - even though there is no doubt in anyone's mind that he is guilty.

The only reason you would be against him getting the death penalty is because the government would be the one administering the punishment?

 

[Bonnie]

Let me reiterate my original question. People worship Jesus because he was martyred by an unjust government. How can they be in favor of the death penalty? It's not only against their faith, it's against the origin of their faith. If it was bad then, why is it good now? What changed?

Next point. Why do people who believe in redemption want to take away that opportunity by killing people before they have a chance to be redeemed?

I am not a biblical scholar because I don't believe in that religion, but was Jesus in favor of the death penalty?

People do not worship Jesus soley because he was martyred, they worship him because of the example he set and his teachings. God will always forgive if one truly asks for redemption, so if you really want to get to it, it doesn't matter whether society forgives but only if God forgives.

To your second question this comes straight out of the Catholic Catechism passage # 2266 " Preserving the common of society requires rendering the aggressor unable to inflict harm. For this reason the traditional teaching of the Church has acknowledged as well-founded the right and duty of legitimate public authority to punish malefactors by means of penalties commensurate with the gravity of the crime, not excluding the death penalty. For analgous reasons those holding authority have the right to repel by armed force aggressors against the community in their charge."


Does this mean it's open season for killing offenders...of course not! it means when the crime is horrendous enough the death penalty is a just means of punishment.

 

[Nuc]

To your second question this comes straight out of the Catholic Catechism passage # 2266 " Preserving the common of society requires rendering the aggressor unable to inflict harm. For this reason the traditional teaching of the Church has acknowledged as well-founded the right and duty of legitimate public authority to punish malefactors by means of penalties commensurate with the gravity of the crime, not excluding the death penalty. For analgous reasons those holding authority have the right to repel by armed force aggressors against the community in their charge."

That's church teaching, not the word of Jesus. Was JESUS in favor of the death penalty?

 

[Abbey Normal]

Here is a biblical scholar's take on the subject:

"Jesus did support the death penalty and He left a hearty biblical record proving the point. Jesus has been so remade by the modern world into a mix of Mahatma Gandhi, Mother Teresa and Tiny Tim that they cannot see the Jesus clearly portrayed in the Bible. Let us look at the record.

"Consider this: the Mosaic Law very strongly supported the death penalty and Jesus never once disobeyed the law or taught against it. He said, “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil” (Matt.5:17). The law made numerous provisions for the death penalty. Jesus did not come to destroy these provisions but to fulfill them. As such, He would have supported the death penalty."

And this on Paul, one of the Apostles:

"Paul recognized the justice of the death penalty. When he was brought before the judgment seat of Festus, he said, “For if I be an offender, or have committed any thing worthy of death, I refuse not to die” (Ac.25:11). By this, Paul admitted that there were offenses worthy of death and that the government had the right to administer death in those cases."

"He further states in Romans that the powers that be (government) are ordained by God. They act as ministers of God for good. He further warns, “But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil” (Rom.13:4). The powers that be bear the sword to execute wrath on those that do evil. What do you think these powers are going to do with the sword? Are they going to slap someone on the wrist with it? No. They are going to “execute wrath” by executing someone. They are going to administer the death penalty."

Link for rest of article: http://www.learnthebible.org/death_penalty.htm