An America Without Unions

[Cammmpbell]

Republicans can be trained to believe anything.

Yeah....the bible thumpers hurry to the polls to vote against what should be their own interests. When adjusted for inflation the rest of us have lost ground ever since Ronald
Reagan and his "Trickle Down."

Look closely at the upper 1% after Bush's second tax cut in 2003:

 

[Caroljo]

Most people who hate unions are just jealous that some Americans have managed to hang onto good paying jobs with good benefits and good job security,

jobs that someone can support a family on, jobs that someone can have a good life on.

The rarer these sort of jobs become, the more resented are those who manage to get them.

Hey...i'd love to have a job sweeping floors for $32/hr!
But i also know this isn't going to last. Companies close their doors eventually when they have to pay a person this kind of money for something that doesn't put money back in the companies pockets. The company has to raise the price of their goods to cover this...the worker gets their raise, their better benefits, and anything else the union wants....then the company raises it's prices to cover that, and the prices of their products in the stores raise higher...and it costs us consumers more. Then us consumers struggle and try to find a higher paying job to help cover those higher prices we have to pay.

And it goes on and on and on.....why do you think products have gotten so expensive?

Unions used to be good for people. Now the unions are only good for themselves....they've become greedy and always wanting more. They make the workers think they are working for them, when most are actually helping to bankrupt this country.

 

[editec]

No unions is a damned fine way to insure that this nation becomes a banana republic.

Hell, we're well on our way to that state already.

I know, I know...that's the economic model many of you want for this nation.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Gee, how do the 85%+ of us that aren't in unions survive?

 

[occupied]

I have heard several claim that there was a time when unions were a good thing, but no longer. My question to them is how far will things have to slip back into the 19th century before they become necessary again? Labor has lost a lot of ground since the 70s, wages have stagnated for decades, job security is an impossible dream. How far down the slippery slope to China will we have to go before it becomes permissible to put on the brakes?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Gee, how do the 85%+ of us that aren't in unions survive?

For one thing, a good many of you have both spouses working to make ends meet. That adversely impacts child raising,

and overall, that adversely impacts the 'family values' that conservatives pretend are so important to them.

 

[regent]

The founders called them factions, groups that organize for political or other purposes. They come with democracies and are part and parcel of democracies. We accept business organizations, the Chamber of Commerce, medical organizations, sports organization and on and on, all looking out for their own best interests. But sometimes it is the best interests to destroy other factions, factions that hinder their best interests. Why is labor questioned, well who benefits by the elimination of closing down of labor unions?
When we start calling my former fifth grade teacher, Mrs. Wagner a union thug I feel something is afoot. She was only 100 pounds and seventy years old and could barely carry her chalk to the board, and I wonder what made her a thug. If she had only become a principal she would have been a member of the school board administrators and a real American, not a common thug.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I have heard several claim that there was a time when unions were a good thing, but no longer.

That's one of those conservative bullshit talking points, much like the conservatives who claim the Democratic party of the past was wonderful, but today's Democrats suck. Or they blather about how great classical liberalism was...that sort of bullshit.

The FACT is that conservatism has historically fought the labor movement every step of the way; conservatives who tell you that labor and unions used to be a good thing should at least acknowledge that had the conservatives of times past WON, the union movements of back then that you pretend to praise now would have been destroyed.

 

[kiwiman127]

There is no doubt that the unions shot themselves in the foot with allowing the greed and behavior of a few to dictate their direction. But the demise of the union has hurt the vast middle class/working class.
Since the demise of the power of unions, the working middle class (which would include most posters here), has seen their share of the National Income plummet.
While the working middle class saw their share of the National Income drop like a rock, the very few super wealthy have seen their share of the National Income skyrocket. The next nineteen percent of households saw a modest growth with their share of the National Income.
It's very strange that the unions are the target of right wing working class posters as they have experienced the fact that their share of the National Income drop. Yet, they very loyally support those who determine exactly what their share of the National Income will be via wages.
Below are charts that show the rise and fall the shares of the National Income by income brackets. Then there is the chart that shows how the income of the working middle class households has coincidentally dropped as the union membership has dropped.
Who is to be blamed for these factual circumstances? Anyone?

 

[Sallow]

Most people who hate unions are just jealous that some Americans have managed to hang onto good paying jobs with good benefits and good job security,

jobs that someone can support a family on, jobs that someone can have a good life on.

The rarer these sort of jobs become, the more resented are those who manage to get them.

Hey...i'd love to have a job sweeping floors for $32/hr!
But i also know this isn't going to last. Companies close their doors eventually when they have to pay a person this kind of money for something that doesn't put money back in the companies pockets. The company has to raise the price of their goods to cover this...the worker gets their raise, their better benefits, and anything else the union wants....then the company raises it's prices to cover that, and the prices of their products in the stores raise higher...and it costs us consumers more. Then us consumers struggle and try to find a higher paying job to help cover those higher prices we have to pay.

And it goes on and on and on.....why do you think products have gotten so expensive?

Unions used to be good for people. Now the unions are only good for themselves....they've become greedy and always wanting more. They make the workers think they are working for them, when most are actually helping to bankrupt this country.

I'll never understand why you folks have trouble with paying someone a wage for doing actual labor..but have no trouble at all with folks that make more in one year then the same folks you have trouble paying for labor would make in a lifetime. Sometimes several lifetimes. And by the way..tax cuts and subsidies pay for these people's meals, travel and entertainment. They really don't do much of anything..in terms of actually working.

Seriously.

 

[Decepticon]

Unions are like vampires, they can take a little blood every day and both vampire and host are happy. Then the unions get greedy and suck the host dry.

I've been on both sides of a union. I've seen them be very good staving off abusive management, and I've seen them cover for incompetence, graft and stupidity as well.

The problem isn't that they exist it is with the nature of man being innately corrupt if not constant vigilance.

Frankly, I'd take the good with the bad.
Unions aren't all forces for positive good, but their lack would create MORE problems than the unions create themselves.

 

[Cammmpbell]

No unions is a damned fine way to insure that this nation becomes a banana republic.

Hell, we're well on our way to that state already.

I know, I know...that's the economic model many of you want for this nation.

They're doing it anyway.

Since the late 70's the upper 1% has increased their earnings nearly three times while the lower 20% when adjusted for inflation has been stagnant or lost ground. They'll be satisfied when an ordinary American worker earns about the same as a Maylasian day laborer. That's what this global economy was about to begin with. Remember when H. Ross Perot stood in the 1992 debates and told Clinton and G.H.W. Bush about the giant sucking sound being jobs leaving America

You might also have noticed that there hasn't been another thrid party in the debates since then.

 

[Big Fitz]

Unions are like vampires, they can take a little blood every day and both vampire and host are happy. Then the unions get greedy and suck the host dry.

I've been on both sides of a union. I've seen them be very good staving off abusive management, and I've seen them cover for incompetence, graft and stupidity as well.

The problem isn't that they exist it is with the nature of man being innately corrupt if not constant vigilance.

Frankly, I'd take the good with the bad.
Unions aren't all forces for positive good, but their lack would create MORE problems than the unions create themselves.

If you limited that to Private Sector Unions and prevented Government from protecting them, just like businesses should be, I'd agree.

Till then, not so much.

 

[Sallow]

I've been on both sides of a union. I've seen them be very good staving off abusive management, and I've seen them cover for incompetence, graft and stupidity as well.

The problem isn't that they exist it is with the nature of man being innately corrupt if not constant vigilance.

Frankly, I'd take the good with the bad.
Unions aren't all forces for positive good, but their lack would create MORE problems than the unions create themselves.

If you limited that to Private Sector Unions and prevented Government from protecting them, just like businesses should be, I'd agree.

Till then, not so much.

Government initially intervened to protect management. That..and stuff like coal stopped being produced.

In any case..both sides benefitted. Management got to keep breathing and labor got a 5 day work week with a little more pay.

 

[Mr Natural]

Gee, how do the 85%+ of us that aren't in unions survive?

Survive is the operative word there as opposed to thrive which the middle class did back in the heyday of unions.

 

[Caroljo]

Gee, how do the 85%+ of us that aren't in unions survive?

Exactly...i work in an office for a company that has a union in the factory (but not in the office). I make more money & have better benefits than the factory workers!

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Gee, how do the 85%+ of us that aren't in unions survive?

For one thing, a good many of you have both spouses working to make ends meet. That adversely impacts child raising,

and overall, that adversely impacts the 'family values' that conservatives pretend are so important to them.

I know several union members, some are police & firefighters, some are IBEW and some Teamsters, they all have working spouses.

I'm non-union and my spouse did not work until our kids were out of HS. But I suspect that is because I have an advaced degeree and a CPA license... them, HS diploma.

 

[Mr Natural]

Gee, how do the 85%+ of us that aren't in unions survive?

Exactly...i work in an office for a company that has a union in the factory (but not in the office). I make more money & have better benefits than the factory workers!

And if the shop wasn't unionized, you'd be making less than you are now.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Gee, how do the 85%+ of us that aren't in unions survive?

Exactly...i work in an office for a company that has a union in the factory (but not in the office). I make more money & have better benefits than the factory workers!

And if the shop wasn't unionized, you'd be making less than you are now.

And you know this how exactly?

 

[sfcalifornia]

Gee, how do the 85%+ of us that aren't in unions survive?

Exactly...i work in an office for a company that has a union in the factory (but not in the office). I make more money & have better benefits than the factory workers!

I should hope you do, the idea being that factory work is repetitive and mundane whereas management requires a bit more brain power.

Btw, isn't it office hours now? What are you doing posting on threads? LOL