America's sick with homophobia

[Moonglow]

No, I'm not talking about the term as it's popularly used, I'm talking about real homophobia, the fear of affectionate gestures between men.

In Asia, men who are friends walk hand in hand while talking. In Europe they greet each other with a kiss on each cheek. Here we fist bump. It got me wondering if fear of homosexuality fuels our obsession with it, whether it be affinity or angry opposition to it.

That's another thing the rest of the world has in common, a lack of passion on homosexuality either way. They have a live and let live attitude toward alternative lifestyle whereas here people are either pushing it in everyone's face or fighting against it. Fathers fear intimacy with their sons because it might turn them gay, friends dread a simple backrub because in our culture that kind of thing is always sexual.

I have to wonder if we really do have a problem with homophobia in America and why our culture is so terrified of the male to male affection that seems to come so naturally to the rest of the world.

What's wrong with us?

I think the fear Americans have towards various groups is all by design. If your people are afraid of others, they give you, the government as much power as you want to keep themselves safe. If we didn't fear others we wouldn't give the government all the power they have.Thus fear is useful to governments.

Nazis used this fear of the other in the 30s to come to power. Governments use it to this day to stay in power. US government has made fear of touching and being touched so prevalaent that it's not even just same sex touching but ALL touching. Look at films and pictures from 50+ years ago and you'll see how much more common touching was. Now, a lot of this innocent contact can get you sued or arrested. By making simple human contact something bad we've become correspondingly much more fearful of other people, even our fellow citizens. And thus given the government unprecedented amounts of power over our daily lives.

My first grade teacher gave us kids lots of hugs, she was just that kind of person. For all I know there were kids there that really needed it because those were the only hugs they ever got. Now teachers don't do that anymore. Lawsuits? I think there's more to it than that. I named this thread for a reason. I think America really is sick and the only cure for it is love, the only kind that is convincing, the kind that gives great big hugs and great wet kisses. Humans give and receive love through physical touch. Everything else just falls short.

Yet when I try that I am arrested...

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

We are not sick, we are just a little bit scared about homophobia now, their initiatives are often very hard to understand and their parades are always shock for children and for some adults too, there is too much window dressing...

This thread isn't about homosexuality. A homosexual living down the street lacks the power to inspire the dread men feel when another man wants to give them a hug and even (gasp!) a peck on the cheek. That's homophobia.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

No, I'm not talking about the term as it's popularly used, I'm talking about real homophobia, the fear of affectionate gestures between men.

In Asia, men who are friends walk hand in hand while talking. In Europe they greet each other with a kiss on each cheek. Here we fist bump. It got me wondering if fear of homosexuality fuels our obsession with it, whether it be affinity or angry opposition to it.

That's another thing the rest of the world has in common, a lack of passion on homosexuality either way. They have a live and let live attitude toward alternative lifestyle whereas here people are either pushing it in everyone's face or fighting against it. Fathers fear intimacy with their sons because it might turn them gay, friends dread a simple backrub because in our culture that kind of thing is always sexual.

I have to wonder if we really do have a problem with homophobia in America and why our culture is so terrified of the male to male affection that seems to come so naturally to the rest of the world.

What's wrong with us?

I think the fear Americans have towards various groups is all by design. If your people are afraid of others, they give you, the government as much power as you want to keep themselves safe. If we didn't fear others we wouldn't give the government all the power they have.Thus fear is useful to governments.

Nazis used this fear of the other in the 30s to come to power. Governments use it to this day to stay in power. US government has made fear of touching and being touched so prevalaent that it's not even just same sex touching but ALL touching. Look at films and pictures from 50+ years ago and you'll see how much more common touching was. Now, a lot of this innocent contact can get you sued or arrested. By making simple human contact something bad we've become correspondingly much more fearful of other people, even our fellow citizens. And thus given the government unprecedented amounts of power over our daily lives.

My first grade teacher gave us kids lots of hugs, she was just that kind of person. For all I know there were kids there that really needed it because those were the only hugs they ever got. Now teachers don't do that anymore. Lawsuits? I think there's more to it than that. I named this thread for a reason. I think America really is sick and the only cure for it is love, the only kind that is convincing, the kind that gives great big hugs and great wet kisses. Humans give and receive love through physical touch. Everything else just falls short.

Yet when I try that I am arrested...

Are you a teacher?

 

[Moonglow]

No, I'm not talking about the term as it's popularly used, I'm talking about real homophobia, the fear of affectionate gestures between men.

In Asia, men who are friends walk hand in hand while talking. In Europe they greet each other with a kiss on each cheek. Here we fist bump. It got me wondering if fear of homosexuality fuels our obsession with it, whether it be affinity or angry opposition to it.

That's another thing the rest of the world has in common, a lack of passion on homosexuality either way. They have a live and let live attitude toward alternative lifestyle whereas here people are either pushing it in everyone's face or fighting against it. Fathers fear intimacy with their sons because it might turn them gay, friends dread a simple backrub because in our culture that kind of thing is always sexual.

I have to wonder if we really do have a problem with homophobia in America and why our culture is so terrified of the male to male affection that seems to come so naturally to the rest of the world.

What's wrong with us?

I think the fear Americans have towards various groups is all by design. If your people are afraid of others, they give you, the government as much power as you want to keep themselves safe. If we didn't fear others we wouldn't give the government all the power they have.Thus fear is useful to governments.

Nazis used this fear of the other in the 30s to come to power. Governments use it to this day to stay in power. US government has made fear of touching and being touched so prevalaent that it's not even just same sex touching but ALL touching. Look at films and pictures from 50+ years ago and you'll see how much more common touching was. Now, a lot of this innocent contact can get you sued or arrested. By making simple human contact something bad we've become correspondingly much more fearful of other people, even our fellow citizens. And thus given the government unprecedented amounts of power over our daily lives.

My first grade teacher gave us kids lots of hugs, she was just that kind of person. For all I know there were kids there that really needed it because those were the only hugs they ever got. Now teachers don't do that anymore. Lawsuits? I think there's more to it than that. I named this thread for a reason. I think America really is sick and the only cure for it is love, the only kind that is convincing, the kind that gives great big hugs and great wet kisses. Humans give and receive love through physical touch. Everything else just falls short.

Yet when I try that I am arrested...

Are you a teacher?

Not any more....

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

But hugging does not equal sexual feelings! This the problem!

Well....you know how it goes....whoever dies happiest wins, and if hate makes you happy...more power to you.

But you will have to explain it all to God again someday.

I'm happiest actually being happy, and who am I to poopoo someone being happy while hating.

Nobody I really know "hates" homosexuals. They just hate/won't have the idea of them hijacking the word marriage to the demise of children involved. That's really the long and short of it.

It's a very logical reaction to hate someone that threatens your children

Even though homophobes are a threat to everyone's children- I don't hate them.

Idiot. How are you any better than people who claim homosexuals in threaten everybody's children?

LOL....okay- I will admit- I was engaging in hyperbole- and sarcasm in response to that bigots post.
Yes- I was wrong to do so- homophobes are no more a threat than homosexuals are.

Two very close family friends are a lesbian couple who often babysit the kids. I trust them with my own children because they are modest (in behavior) and have a deeply held sense of right and wrong. Our kids adore them. There's nothing that disabuses a flawed belief like personal experience.

 

[toxicmedia]

It's a very logical reaction to hate someone that threatens your children

Even though homophobes are a threat to everyone's children- I don't hate them.

Idiot. How are you any better than people who claim homosexuals in threaten everybody's children?

LOL....okay- I will admit- I was engaging in hyperbole- and sarcasm in response to that bigots post.
Yes- I was wrong to do so- homophobes are no more a threat than homosexuals are.

It is fun listening to homophobes come up with explanations about how bad "homosexual" behavior is, but they have no ill feelings towards gays.

Irony knocks at the door every time I hear the increasingly bizzarre rationalizations they make.

"Love the sinner, hate the sin" is too complicated to understand for you. Got it.

That's passive aggressive BS

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Anyway, it's not homophobia to not hug people. That was the way I was raised. No one in my family hugged. That was just the way it was. It doesn't mean we don't love each. It isn't good to judge people based on cultural differences.

I'm not aware of any culture that doesn't hug and touch.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Anyway, it's not homophobia to not hug people. That was the way I was raised. No one in my family hugged. That was just the way it was. It doesn't mean we don't love each. It isn't good to judge people based on cultural differences.

I'm not aware of any culture that doesn't hug and touch.

We are a culture that's sick, being reticent to touch and hug between guys and being emotionally distant. We've confused love and sex so that we can't love someone unless we want to shag them.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Even though homophobes are a threat to everyone's children- I don't hate them.

Idiot. How are you any better than people who claim homosexuals in threaten everybody's children?

LOL....okay- I will admit- I was engaging in hyperbole- and sarcasm in response to that bigots post.
Yes- I was wrong to do so- homophobes are no more a threat than homosexuals are.

It is fun listening to homophobes come up with explanations about how bad "homosexual" behavior is, but they have no ill feelings towards gays.

Irony knocks at the door every time I hear the increasingly bizzarre rationalizations they make.

"Love the sinner, hate the sin" is too complicated to understand for you. Got it.

That's passive aggressive BS

A 2000 year old doctrine? Not really. Have some respect, would you?

 

[Syriusly]

Anyway, it's not homophobia to not hug people. That was the way I was raised. No one in my family hugged. That was just the way it was. It doesn't mean we don't love each. It isn't good to judge people based on cultural differences.

I'm not aware of any culture that doesn't hug and touch.

We are a culture that's sick, being reticent to touch and hug between guys and being emotionally distant. We've confused love and sex so that we can't love someone unless we want to shag them.

I don't know who you are calling 'we'.

I hug my Dad- and he hugs me. Our whole family hugs- in my culture- which is America- we do hug.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Anyway, it's not homophobia to not hug people. That was the way I was raised. No one in my family hugged. That was just the way it was. It doesn't mean we don't love each. It isn't good to judge people based on cultural differences.

I'm not aware of any culture that doesn't hug and touch.

We are a culture that's sick, being reticent to touch and hug between guys and being emotionally distant. We've confused love and sex so that we can't love someone unless we want to shag them.

I don't know who you are calling 'we'.

I hug my Dad- and he hugs me. Our whole family hugs- in my culture- which is America- we do hug.

In your family, not in America.

Do you know what got me thinking about this? I was watching "Russkies" with my two boys, a movie made long before their time. 3 boys rescued a Soviet sailor stranded on American shores. Anyway, in the course of events there was a cause for great celebration and the Russian grabbed all three boys in a great big hug, something common where he came from. The boys pushed him away and asked if he was homosexual. I paused the movie because this was a real teaching moment for my boys. It isn't just a movie, this thinking is prevalent.

The gay community should be on board with changing this culture because it has been part of the stigma created that kept gays in the closet, a hidden subculture in society.

If men can't hug without thinking hugs are gay, that's a serious sickness IMO.

 

[toxicmedia]

Idiot. How are you any better than people who claim homosexuals in threaten everybody's children?

LOL....okay- I will admit- I was engaging in hyperbole- and sarcasm in response to that bigots post.
Yes- I was wrong to do so- homophobes are no more a threat than homosexuals are.

It is fun listening to homophobes come up with explanations about how bad "homosexual" behavior is, but they have no ill feelings towards gays.

Irony knocks at the door every time I hear the increasingly bizzarre rationalizations they make.

"Love the sinner, hate the sin" is too complicated to understand for you. Got it.

That's passive aggressive BS

A 2000 year old doctrine? Not really. Have some respect, would you?

It's way more than 2000 years old, so are the concepts that murder, robbery, sleeping with your buddy's wife, and lies are bad for societies. It didn't take the 10 Commandments for humans to figure that out.

Love the sinner, and hate the sin, is a great concept. One people might think they're practicing, but the people who oppose gay marriage, on this site almost never express love for whom they think are committing a sin.

The perspective I have comes from growing up out here 90 miles east of San Francisco. It's considered prejudicial to make comparisons between how gays live their lives, as opposed to how straights live their lives. Behind that courtesy is basic privacy. I would never inquire about what straight people who live in Alabama do behind closed doors sexually, let alone be outraged by it.

Gay people usually are, and should be, offended when who they are is defined by what happens behind the closed doors within a romantic relationship. If you're not in the bedroom with them, and the time you spend with them includes coffee in the morning, or brunch out with other friends, or maybe a ball game...why does what they do in their bedroom become anything worthy of judgment, discussion, or disapproval?

If someone disapproves of public displays of affection, and it doesn't matter whether the people are gay, at least that's not hypocritical.

People who insist on meddling and dragging the sexual behavior of gays out into the view of everyone, in hopes others will disapprove, always seem to make the case that it's harmful to their kids to see that.

From the 60's forward, gays came out of the closet because they needed to for their own sanity. It was basically self defense. Now in San Francisco, they don't need to. You can't even declare 95% of us out here desensitized, because we now realize that people being sensitive to a non threat was the real problem. Gays never were the problem, it's people who disapproved of them who were.

Your love for gays, which you have to muster up, is not doing them any favors. Gays neither want, nor need your sympathy, compassion, or disapproval, because they do not need to measure up to your religious practices or ideological expectations.

Don't look now, but your side of this street might not be as clean as you think.

 

[toxicmedia]

Anyway, it's not homophobia to not hug people. That was the way I was raised. No one in my family hugged. That was just the way it was. It doesn't mean we don't love each. It isn't good to judge people based on cultural differences.

I'm not aware of any culture that doesn't hug and touch.

We are a culture that's sick, being reticent to touch and hug between guys and being emotionally distant. We've confused love and sex so that we can't love someone unless we want to shag them.

I don't know who you are calling 'we'.

I hug my Dad- and he hugs me. Our whole family hugs- in my culture- which is America- we do hug.

In your family, not in America.

Do you know what got me thinking about this? I was watching "Russkies" with my two boys, a movie made long before their time. 3 boys rescued a Soviet sailor stranded on American shores. Anyway, in the course of events there was a cause for great celebration and the Russian grabbed all three boys in a great big hug, something common where he came from. The boys pushed him away and asked if he was homosexual. I paused the movie because this was a real teaching moment for my boys. It isn't just a movie, this thinking is prevalent.

The gay community should be on board with changing this culture because it has been part of the stigma created that kept gays in the closet, a hidden subculture in society.

If men can't hug without thinking hugs are gay, that's a serious sickness IMO.

There is nothing wrong with hugs...or gay sex.

Heal thyself

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Anyway, it's not homophobia to not hug people. That was the way I was raised. No one in my family hugged. That was just the way it was. It doesn't mean we don't love each. It isn't good to judge people based on cultural differences.

I'm not aware of any culture that doesn't hug and touch.

We are a culture that's sick, being reticent to touch and hug between guys and being emotionally distant. We've confused love and sex so that we can't love someone unless we want to shag them.

I don't know who you are calling 'we'.

I hug my Dad- and he hugs me. Our whole family hugs- in my culture- which is America- we do hug.

In your family, not in America.

Do you know what got me thinking about this? I was watching "Russkies" with my two boys, a movie made long before their time. 3 boys rescued a Soviet sailor stranded on American shores. Anyway, in the course of events there was a cause for great celebration and the Russian grabbed all three boys in a great big hug, something common where he came from. The boys pushed him away and asked if he was homosexual. I paused the movie because this was a real teaching moment for my boys. It isn't just a movie, this thinking is prevalent.

The gay community should be on board with changing this culture because it has been part of the stigma created that kept gays in the closet, a hidden subculture in society.

If men can't hug without thinking hugs are gay, that's a serious sickness IMO.

There is nothing wrong with hugs...or gay sex.

Heal thyself

The two have nothing to do with each other. That's the point of this whole thread, confused conservatives who are so opposed to homosexuality that they view any male to male affection as gay. Or did you not understand that this thread was a criticism of those conservatives, not gay people?

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

LOL....okay- I will admit- I was engaging in hyperbole- and sarcasm in response to that bigots post.
Yes- I was wrong to do so- homophobes are no more a threat than homosexuals are.

It is fun listening to homophobes come up with explanations about how bad "homosexual" behavior is, but they have no ill feelings towards gays.

Irony knocks at the door every time I hear the increasingly bizzarre rationalizations they make.

"Love the sinner, hate the sin" is too complicated to understand for you. Got it.

That's passive aggressive BS

A 2000 year old doctrine? Not really. Have some respect, would you?

It's way more than 2000 years old, so are the concepts that murder, robbery, sleeping with your buddy's wife, and lies are bad for societies. It didn't take the 10 Commandments for humans to figure that out.

Love the sinner, and hate the sin, is a great concept. One people might think they're practicing, but the people who oppose gay marriage, on this site almost never express love for whom they think are committing a sin.

The perspective I have comes from growing up out here 90 miles east of San Francisco. It's considered prejudicial to make comparisons between how gays live their lives, as opposed to how straights live their lives. Behind that courtesy is basic privacy. I would never inquire about what straight people who live in Alabama do behind closed doors sexually, let alone be outraged by it.

Gay people usually are, and should be, offended when who they are is defined by what happens behind the closed doors within a romantic relationship. If you're not in the bedroom with them, and the time you spend with them includes coffee in the morning, or brunch out with other friends, or maybe a ball game...why does what they do in their bedroom become anything worthy of judgment, discussion, or disapproval?

If someone disapproves of public displays of affection, and it doesn't matter whether the people are gay, at least that's not hypocritical.

People who insist on meddling and dragging the sexual behavior of gays out into the view of everyone, in hopes others will disapprove, always seem to make the case that it's harmful to their kids to see that.

From the 60's forward, gays came out of the closet because they needed to for their own sanity. It was basically self defense. Now in San Francisco, they don't need to. You can't even declare 95% of us out here desensitized, because we now realize that people being sensitive to a non threat was the real problem. Gays never were the problem, it's people who disapproved of them who were.

Your love for gays, which you have to muster up, is not doing them any favors. Gays neither want, nor need your sympathy, compassion, or disapproval, because they do not need to measure up to your religious practices or ideological expectations.

Don't look now, but your side of this street might not be as clean as you think.

This vein of conversation started because you scoffed at Christians who say they don't hate gays but hate what they do. To that I countered that such Christians are in line with the piety that's defined Christianity for centuries, that God calls sinners to repentance because He loves sinners, even though He hates sin. It follows therefore that the followers of Christ take on a like disposition, separating the sinner who needs salvation from the sin which condemns them.

 

[toxicmedia]

It is fun listening to homophobes come up with explanations about how bad "homosexual" behavior is, but they have no ill feelings towards gays.

Irony knocks at the door every time I hear the increasingly bizzarre rationalizations they make.

"Love the sinner, hate the sin" is too complicated to understand for you. Got it.

That's passive aggressive BS

A 2000 year old doctrine? Not really. Have some respect, would you?

It's way more than 2000 years old, so are the concepts that murder, robbery, sleeping with your buddy's wife, and lies are bad for societies. It didn't take the 10 Commandments for humans to figure that out.

Love the sinner, and hate the sin, is a great concept. One people might think they're practicing, but the people who oppose gay marriage, on this site almost never express love for whom they think are committing a sin.

The perspective I have comes from growing up out here 90 miles east of San Francisco. It's considered prejudicial to make comparisons between how gays live their lives, as opposed to how straights live their lives. Behind that courtesy is basic privacy. I would never inquire about what straight people who live in Alabama do behind closed doors sexually, let alone be outraged by it.

Gay people usually are, and should be, offended when who they are is defined by what happens behind the closed doors within a romantic relationship. If you're not in the bedroom with them, and the time you spend with them includes coffee in the morning, or brunch out with other friends, or maybe a ball game...why does what they do in their bedroom become anything worthy of judgment, discussion, or disapproval?

If someone disapproves of public displays of affection, and it doesn't matter whether the people are gay, at least that's not hypocritical.

People who insist on meddling and dragging the sexual behavior of gays out into the view of everyone, in hopes others will disapprove, always seem to make the case that it's harmful to their kids to see that.

From the 60's forward, gays came out of the closet because they needed to for their own sanity. It was basically self defense. Now in San Francisco, they don't need to. You can't even declare 95% of us out here desensitized, because we now realize that people being sensitive to a non threat was the real problem. Gays never were the problem, it's people who disapproved of them who were.

Your love for gays, which you have to muster up, is not doing them any favors. Gays neither want, nor need your sympathy, compassion, or disapproval, because they do not need to measure up to your religious practices or ideological expectations.

Don't look now, but your side of this street might not be as clean as you think.

This vein of conversation started because you scoffed at Christians who say they don't hate gays but hate what they do. To that I countered that such Christians are in line with the piety that's defined Christianity for centuries, that God calls sinners to repentance because He loves sinners, even though He hates sin. It follows therefore that the followers of Christ take on a like disposition, separating the sinner who needs salvation from the sin which condemns them.

Being gay, or having gay sex, is not a sin.

 

[toxicmedia]

I'm not aware of any culture that doesn't hug and touch.

We are a culture that's sick, being reticent to touch and hug between guys and being emotionally distant. We've confused love and sex so that we can't love someone unless we want to shag them.

I don't know who you are calling 'we'.

I hug my Dad- and he hugs me. Our whole family hugs- in my culture- which is America- we do hug.

In your family, not in America.

Do you know what got me thinking about this? I was watching "Russkies" with my two boys, a movie made long before their time. 3 boys rescued a Soviet sailor stranded on American shores. Anyway, in the course of events there was a cause for great celebration and the Russian grabbed all three boys in a great big hug, something common where he came from. The boys pushed him away and asked if he was homosexual. I paused the movie because this was a real teaching moment for my boys. It isn't just a movie, this thinking is prevalent.

The gay community should be on board with changing this culture because it has been part of the stigma created that kept gays in the closet, a hidden subculture in society.

If men can't hug without thinking hugs are gay, that's a serious sickness IMO.

There is nothing wrong with hugs...or gay sex.

Heal thyself

The two have nothing to do with each other. That's the point of this whole thread, confused conservatives who are so opposed to homosexuality that they view any male to male affection as gay. Or did you not understand that this thread was a criticism of those conservatives, not gay people?

I don't care if someone is conservative or liberal, if they disapprove of gay sex, and gay marriage, I support their right to have that opinion, and state it using any media.

Those who want to impose that archaic morality on gays, I will continue to hate them, and not just their sins.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

"Love the sinner, hate the sin" is too complicated to understand for you. Got it.

That's passive aggressive BS

A 2000 year old doctrine? Not really. Have some respect, would you?

It's way more than 2000 years old, so are the concepts that murder, robbery, sleeping with your buddy's wife, and lies are bad for societies. It didn't take the 10 Commandments for humans to figure that out.

Love the sinner, and hate the sin, is a great concept. One people might think they're practicing, but the people who oppose gay marriage, on this site almost never express love for whom they think are committing a sin.

The perspective I have comes from growing up out here 90 miles east of San Francisco. It's considered prejudicial to make comparisons between how gays live their lives, as opposed to how straights live their lives. Behind that courtesy is basic privacy. I would never inquire about what straight people who live in Alabama do behind closed doors sexually, let alone be outraged by it.

Gay people usually are, and should be, offended when who they are is defined by what happens behind the closed doors within a romantic relationship. If you're not in the bedroom with them, and the time you spend with them includes coffee in the morning, or brunch out with other friends, or maybe a ball game...why does what they do in their bedroom become anything worthy of judgment, discussion, or disapproval?

If someone disapproves of public displays of affection, and it doesn't matter whether the people are gay, at least that's not hypocritical.

People who insist on meddling and dragging the sexual behavior of gays out into the view of everyone, in hopes others will disapprove, always seem to make the case that it's harmful to their kids to see that.

From the 60's forward, gays came out of the closet because they needed to for their own sanity. It was basically self defense. Now in San Francisco, they don't need to. You can't even declare 95% of us out here desensitized, because we now realize that people being sensitive to a non threat was the real problem. Gays never were the problem, it's people who disapproved of them who were.

Your love for gays, which you have to muster up, is not doing them any favors. Gays neither want, nor need your sympathy, compassion, or disapproval, because they do not need to measure up to your religious practices or ideological expectations.

Don't look now, but your side of this street might not be as clean as you think.

This vein of conversation started because you scoffed at Christians who say they don't hate gays but hate what they do. To that I countered that such Christians are in line with the piety that's defined Christianity for centuries, that God calls sinners to repentance because He loves sinners, even though He hates sin. It follows therefore that the followers of Christ take on a like disposition, separating the sinner who needs salvation from the sin which condemns them.

Being gay, or having gay sex, is not a sin.

Yes it is a sin. That has no bearing on my view of public policy which I think should leave people to the privacy of their own lives. But you're not going to convince me that it isn't a sin.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

We are a culture that's sick, being reticent to touch and hug between guys and being emotionally distant. We've confused love and sex so that we can't love someone unless we want to shag them.

I don't know who you are calling 'we'.

I hug my Dad- and he hugs me. Our whole family hugs- in my culture- which is America- we do hug.

In your family, not in America.

Do you know what got me thinking about this? I was watching "Russkies" with my two boys, a movie made long before their time. 3 boys rescued a Soviet sailor stranded on American shores. Anyway, in the course of events there was a cause for great celebration and the Russian grabbed all three boys in a great big hug, something common where he came from. The boys pushed him away and asked if he was homosexual. I paused the movie because this was a real teaching moment for my boys. It isn't just a movie, this thinking is prevalent.

The gay community should be on board with changing this culture because it has been part of the stigma created that kept gays in the closet, a hidden subculture in society.

If men can't hug without thinking hugs are gay, that's a serious sickness IMO.

There is nothing wrong with hugs...or gay sex.

Heal thyself

The two have nothing to do with each other. That's the point of this whole thread, confused conservatives who are so opposed to homosexuality that they view any male to male affection as gay. Or did you not understand that this thread was a criticism of those conservatives, not gay people?

I don't care if someone is conservative or liberal, if they disapprove of gay sex, and gay marriage, I support their right to have that opinion, and state it using any media.

Those who want to impose that archaic morality on gays, I will continue to hate them, and not just their sins.

I don't hate them, but I oppose them with you. I don't like family values conservatives who violate the Constitution with the agenda they push, DOMA being a prime example. There's no conflict. It's stupid to assume that just because I believe homosexuality is a sin, I automatically want government to control it. Stupid.

 

[toxicmedia]

That's passive aggressive BS

A 2000 year old doctrine? Not really. Have some respect, would you?

It's way more than 2000 years old, so are the concepts that murder, robbery, sleeping with your buddy's wife, and lies are bad for societies. It didn't take the 10 Commandments for humans to figure that out.

Love the sinner, and hate the sin, is a great concept. One people might think they're practicing, but the people who oppose gay marriage, on this site almost never express love for whom they think are committing a sin.

The perspective I have comes from growing up out here 90 miles east of San Francisco. It's considered prejudicial to make comparisons between how gays live their lives, as opposed to how straights live their lives. Behind that courtesy is basic privacy. I would never inquire about what straight people who live in Alabama do behind closed doors sexually, let alone be outraged by it.

Gay people usually are, and should be, offended when who they are is defined by what happens behind the closed doors within a romantic relationship. If you're not in the bedroom with them, and the time you spend with them includes coffee in the morning, or brunch out with other friends, or maybe a ball game...why does what they do in their bedroom become anything worthy of judgment, discussion, or disapproval?

If someone disapproves of public displays of affection, and it doesn't matter whether the people are gay, at least that's not hypocritical.

People who insist on meddling and dragging the sexual behavior of gays out into the view of everyone, in hopes others will disapprove, always seem to make the case that it's harmful to their kids to see that.

From the 60's forward, gays came out of the closet because they needed to for their own sanity. It was basically self defense. Now in San Francisco, they don't need to. You can't even declare 95% of us out here desensitized, because we now realize that people being sensitive to a non threat was the real problem. Gays never were the problem, it's people who disapproved of them who were.

Your love for gays, which you have to muster up, is not doing them any favors. Gays neither want, nor need your sympathy, compassion, or disapproval, because they do not need to measure up to your religious practices or ideological expectations.

Don't look now, but your side of this street might not be as clean as you think.

This vein of conversation started because you scoffed at Christians who say they don't hate gays but hate what they do. To that I countered that such Christians are in line with the piety that's defined Christianity for centuries, that God calls sinners to repentance because He loves sinners, even though He hates sin. It follows therefore that the followers of Christ take on a like disposition, separating the sinner who needs salvation from the sin which condemns them.

Being gay, or having gay sex, is not a sin.

Yes it is a sin. That has no bearing on my view of public policy which I think should leave people to the privacy of their own lives. But you're not going to convince me that it isn't a sin.

Our positions are irreconcilable.

But I like how your dialog continued to be almost entirely rational and civil throughout our exchange.

Thank you for that.