American Healthcare: a Hostage Crisis that's Killing our Economy

[dblack]

And it would get worse with tax payer subsidized healthcare for all.

And yet so many other countries have managed to make it work. Are you suggesting Americans aren't smart enough?

Didn't seem like that's what he was suggesting. Instead, I think the suggestion was that making healthcare a public responsibility, rather than a personal one, is likely to make people less personally responsible. It's a perfectly rational argument, which you've failed - entirely - to address.

 

[Arianrhod]

And it would get worse with tax payer subsidized healthcare for all.

And yet so many other countries have managed to make it work. Are you suggesting Americans aren't smart enough?

Didn't seem like that's what he was suggesting. Instead, I think the suggestion was that making healthcare a public responsibility, rather than a personal one, is likely to make people less personally responsible. It's a perfectly rational argument, which you've failed - entirely - to address.

Is it time for you to advise people to cheat on their taxes the way you were in the Healthcare forum?

 

[Arianrhod]

And it would get worse with tax payer subsidized healthcare for all.

And yet so many other countries have managed to make it work. Are you suggesting Americans aren't smart enough?

WHAT countries??? The U.S. has 320 million people. 3rd largest.

So is there a magical number beyond which health care doesn't work? What would that number be, exactly?

 

[dblack]

And it would get worse with tax payer subsidized healthcare for all.

And yet so many other countries have managed to make it work. Are you suggesting Americans aren't smart enough?

Didn't seem like that's what he was suggesting. Instead, I think the suggestion was that making healthcare a public responsibility, rather than a personal one, is likely to make people less personally responsible. It's a perfectly rational argument, which you've failed - entirely - to address.

Is it time for you to advise people to cheat on their taxes the way you were in the Healthcare forum?

It's time for you to back off. I know pissing people off is your 'thing', but I'd really rather not play. Move along.

 

[beagle9]

Simple, the profiteering by the private insurance is taken out of it... That is what needs to happen. Our lives are not to be based upon profits, otherwise as to whether or not we live or die... Period.

Why do so many people who hold this opinion support ACA, which does exactly the opposite?

Not sure, but they need to do their homework better... The ACA may work for a few who can be fooled as to what it is to them, but for everyone else they know it is a complete failure for the nation and in regards to what we are going through as a nation together.

 

[TexM3]

The problem cost shifting and monopolistic practices by the healthcare industry causing out of control pricing. The regulators have been captured.

You are so dumb regarding health care costs!
1) Doctors tell us they cause $850 billion a year in excess claims paid by insurance companies out of fear of lawsuits.
Proof that they do this is in this study!
http://www.jacksonhealthcare.com/media/8968/defensivemedicine_ebook_final.pdf

90% of physicians surveyed say they order $850 billion a year in wasted duplicate tests, referrals all out of FEAR of being SUED!
Physicians estimate the cost of defensive medicine in US at $650 to $850 billion per year.
--- Emergency medicine, primary care, and OB/GYN physicians are most likely to practice defensive medicine.
--- 79 to 83% of surgeons and OB/GYNs have been named in lawsuits.
"Physicians contracted by the federal government practice significantly less defensive medicine as they are protected against lawsuits by the
1946 Federal Tort Claims Act. "
-- BUT........Only 48% practice defensive medicine compared to 92% of non-government physicians.
Consider that fact that of the physicians interviewed 52% DID NOT practice defensive medicine!
Who were they? Doctors contracted by federal government!
WHY did these doctors NOT practice "defensive medicine"??? 1946 Tort reform!

The insurance companies don't care as they simple raise the premiums.
If lawyers' $270 BILLION a year income was taxed 10% as ACA taxes tanning salons, that $27 billion would provide $5,000 premium for each of the
less then 4 million true Americans that want and need insurance.
Simple fact.

So lawsuits are the main reason why it cost 3x more, adjusted for inflation, to have a baby now then it did in the 60s?

How the cost of giving birth in the U.S. has TRIPLED since 1996 to $9,775 - thanks to expensive fees for everything from an epidural to placenta removal

At the bottom of the link price transparency is being addressed. Why the huge delta? Is Maricopa Medical Center immune from lawsuits?

 

[beagle9]

My idea is this... The feds should take over the healthcare insurance industry period, then take those corporate offices over to have the employee's work for the government as a fraud detection agency, along with an accounts managing operation for the citizens and the government ...Then tax every citizen in this nation for a healthcare card that will be issued to every single American, and it will be honored at every legitimate clinic, doctors office and hospital that will be recognized as official or is certified in the nation..... In a pool this large (300 + million strong), the cost to us per week would be miniscule. Prisoners would even have to pay in per week out of their jail or prison work pay and/or rations. Every American would have healthcare insurance, and access to the same healthcare every American in the nation has access too. Choice would lead us to re-install the rights as to where the citizen would be able to take that card and to choose anywhere they wish to use it in our lives (i.e. they can keep their doctors, and their favorite places to get their care if legit). The sales tax idea is good too, but insurance corps need to be taken over for the purpose of incorporating them into the government to use to manage the system just like it is doing today, but haven't been doing in the national interest of the nation and it's citizens.

Why on earth would you give control of an entire industry to an entity that has demonstrated nothing but incompetence.
The only thing they are good at is becoming corrupt.

. Who is the most corrupt, the government or the health insurance industry in which denies people services based upon pre'existing conditions, focuses on profits more so than offering quality plans, charges to much for the plans it offers, denies claims based upon ridiculous criteria used thus casting the claim onto the client or even using it to drop coverage... You want to remain in such a situation or get into one that works for all ?

That's easy, the gov. They are supposed to be the gatekeepers. They can't effectively regulate the private healthcare industry what evidence is there they will be able to manage a single payer system? The results at the VA?

. Simple, the profiteering by the private insurance is taken out of it... That is what needs to happen. Our lives are not to be based upon profits, otherwise as to whether or not we live or die... Period.

And then you end up with the VA.

A better solution wold be for the regulators to do their job. Apply the same anti-trust standards to healthcare like they do to other industries driving prices down to something affordable. The problem is corruption/regulatory capture. It's happens in big pharma, the banks, the food industry ect..it's become ubiquitous. That is the problem with a large powerful central gov. always has been and will be. The founders knew it and tried to prevent it but...

Nothing wrong with a powerful corporate run nation though ? Uh shall we say just more and more of the same then ?

 

[Arianrhod]

And it would get worse with tax payer subsidized healthcare for all.

And yet so many other countries have managed to make it work. Are you suggesting Americans aren't smart enough?

Didn't seem like that's what he was suggesting. Instead, I think the suggestion was that making healthcare a public responsibility, rather than a personal one, is likely to make people less personally responsible. It's a perfectly rational argument, which you've failed - entirely - to address.

Is it time for you to advise people to cheat on their taxes the way you were in the Healthcare forum?

It's time for you to back off. I know pissing people off is your 'thing', but I'd really rather not play. Move along.

This thread is not about you. Go run to the mods again if you feel you need to.

 

[TexM3]

Why on earth would you give control of an entire industry to an entity that has demonstrated nothing but incompetence.
The only thing they are good at is becoming corrupt.

. Who is the most corrupt, the government or the health insurance industry in which denies people services based upon pre'existing conditions, focuses on profits more so than offering quality plans, charges to much for the plans it offers, denies claims based upon ridiculous criteria used thus casting the claim onto the client or even using it to drop coverage... You want to remain in such a situation or get into one that works for all ?

That's easy, the gov. They are supposed to be the gatekeepers. They can't effectively regulate the private healthcare industry what evidence is there they will be able to manage a single payer system? The results at the VA?

. Simple, the profiteering by the private insurance is taken out of it... That is what needs to happen. Our lives are not to be based upon profits, otherwise as to whether or not we live or die... Period.

And then you end up with the VA.

A better solution wold be for the regulators to do their job. Apply the same anti-trust standards to healthcare like they do to other industries driving prices down to something affordable. The problem is corruption/regulatory capture. It's happens in big pharma, the banks, the food industry ect..it's become ubiquitous. That is the problem with a large powerful central gov. always has been and will be. The founders knew it and tried to prevent it but...

Nothing wrong with a powerful corporate run nation though ? Uh shall we say just more and more of the same then ?

Of course there is something wrong with the corporate oligarchy we live under now. I have no idea how you got to that conclusion by reading my post. Did you start pre-supper bowl early?

 

[beagle9]

And it would get worse with tax payer subsidized healthcare for all.

And yet so many other countries have managed to make it work. Are you suggesting Americans aren't smart enough?

Nah American business men aren't giving up their indirect bilking of the government through the failed system of healthcare in this nation.. Shall we say status quoe ?

 

[dblack]

And it would get worse with tax payer subsidized healthcare for all.

And yet so many other countries have managed to make it work. Are you suggesting Americans aren't smart enough?

Didn't seem like that's what he was suggesting. Instead, I think the suggestion was that making healthcare a public responsibility, rather than a personal one, is likely to make people less personally responsible. It's a perfectly rational argument, which you've failed - entirely - to address.

Is it time for you to advise people to cheat on their taxes the way you were in the Healthcare forum?

It's time for you to back off. I know pissing people off is your 'thing', but I'd really rather not play. Move along.

This thread is not about you. Go run to the mods again if you feel you need to.

It's not? Your posts seem to say otherwise. You certainly aren't posting any intelligent arguments. Personal insults seem to be your only mode of interaction.

 

[beagle9]

A win win would be this for the nation as far as reforming the healthcare insurance industry in this nation.. The government takes over the private healthcare insurance industry in this nation.. The workers would then work for the government doing what they did for the private industry, except for the task of canceling and denying people coverage and services based upon potential risk and profit losses all because of that risk or condition the person may have or may be stricken with. A federal insurance card is issued to all just like a social security card is issued. We decide who the winner and losers are as based upon the use of that card in the free market place that offers the best care and services when we use that card. The clinics, doctors offices, hospitals will all remain in the free market system. Our use of the card at the best locations will determine the winners and losers just as it should be in the free market place. The government wins, we win, and the ones who offer the best products and services win.

Gone will be the days of people being scared to use their over paid for insurance cards. Gone will be the days of people worried about using that card, and then causing the rates to go up or being threatened that their rates will go up or scared to use their card because they are scared they would be fired from their job if the job see's them as a risk to their policy's. Gone are the days when people will be afraid to use the card and therefore causing their conditions to become catastrophic all because of... Gone will be the days of people dying in the ER because they are looked at as losers in life or the ER is so packed that it can't handle the load.

 

[Arianrhod]

And it would get worse with tax payer subsidized healthcare for all.

And yet so many other countries have managed to make it work. Are you suggesting Americans aren't smart enough?

Nah American business men aren't giving up their indirect bilking of the government through the failed system of healthcare in this nation.. Shall we say status quoe ?

Oh, they won't give up without a fight. But it's interesting to see how many of the "Sanders isn't a serious candidate" people have suddenly shifted to a genuine concern about a Sanders candidacy.

Not sure how old you are (but you're a fan of the Duke, and that's okay by me), but some of us know that what comes around goes around, and our day may - finally - have come.

 

[TexM3]

A win win would be this for the nation as far as reforming the healthcare insurance industry in this nation.. The government takes over the private healthcare insurance industry in this nation.. The workers would then work for the government doing what they did for the private industry, except for the task of canceling and denying people coverage and services based upon potential risk and profit losses all because of that risk or condition the person may have or may be stricken with. A federal insurance card is issued to all just like a social security card is issued. We decide who the winner and losers are as based upon the use of that card in the free market place that offers the best care and services when we use that card. The clinics, doctors offices, hospitals will all remain in the free market system. Our use of the card at the best locations will determine the winners and losers just as it should be in the free market place. The government wins, we win, and the ones who offer the best products and services win.

A better solution, just like illegal immigration, would be for the gov to enforce the laws and not give preferential treatment.
And how would we pay for you plan?

 

[Silhouette]

Nah American business men aren't giving up their indirect bilking of the government through the failed system of healthcare in this nation.. Shall we say status quoe ?

Oh, they won't give up without a fight. But it's interesting to see how many of the "Sanders isn't a serious candidate" people have suddenly shifted to a genuine concern about a Sanders candidacy.

Not sure how old you are (but you're a fan of the Duke, and that's okay by me), but some of us know that what comes around goes around, and our day may - finally - have come.

What day?

 

[beagle9]

Not sure what politician running would be willing to fix this problem once and for all.. We can only hope and pray that the people will somehow come together to fix it once and for all.. Literally.

 

[healthmyths]

The problem cost shifting and monopolistic practices by the healthcare industry causing out of control pricing. The regulators have been captured.

You are so dumb regarding health care costs!
1) Doctors tell us they cause $850 billion a year in excess claims paid by insurance companies out of fear of lawsuits.
Proof that they do this is in this study!
http://www.jacksonhealthcare.com/media/8968/defensivemedicine_ebook_final.pdf

90% of physicians surveyed say they order $850 billion a year in wasted duplicate tests, referrals all out of FEAR of being SUED!
Physicians estimate the cost of defensive medicine in US at $650 to $850 billion per year.
--- Emergency medicine, primary care, and OB/GYN physicians are most likely to practice defensive medicine.
--- 79 to 83% of surgeons and OB/GYNs have been named in lawsuits.
"Physicians contracted by the federal government practice significantly less defensive medicine as they are protected against lawsuits by the
1946 Federal Tort Claims Act. "
-- BUT........Only 48% practice defensive medicine compared to 92% of non-government physicians.
Consider that fact that of the physicians interviewed 52% DID NOT practice defensive medicine!
Who were they? Doctors contracted by federal government!
WHY did these doctors NOT practice "defensive medicine"??? 1946 Tort reform!

The insurance companies don't care as they simple raise the premiums.
If lawyers' $270 BILLION a year income was taxed 10% as ACA taxes tanning salons, that $27 billion would provide $5,000 premium for each of the
less then 4 million true Americans that want and need insurance.
Simple fact.

So lawsuits are the main reason why it cost 3x more, adjusted for inflation, to have a baby now then it did in the 60s?

How the cost of giving birth in the U.S. has TRIPLED since 1996 to $9,775 - thanks to expensive fees for everything from an epidural to placenta removal

At the bottom of the link price transparency is being addressed. Why the huge delta? Is Maricopa Medical Center immune from lawsuits?

You dummy! It isn't ONLY lawsuits!
Ever hear of EMTALA??? Of course not you are a dummy.
Back in 1986 Congress thought they were being helpful to the uninsured and passed this law. Look it up and then you'll understand why hospitals
charge $3,000 or more for a CAT scan that actually costs and I've got the statistics to show it...less the $100 to perform...i.e. overhead salaries,etc!
Hospitals making nearly 3,000% markup!
And then you have idiots today doing what NOT one of us with common sense would do years ago!
Look at this and translate into increasing stupid claims filed by these idiots. And then who pays for them? Higher premiums dummy!

And you mention just ONE reason why health care costs have skyrocketed!
Dummy you know nothing about health care finances.

 

[beagle9]

test

 

[beagle9]

The problem cost shifting and monopolistic practices by the healthcare industry causing out of control pricing. The regulators have been captured.

You are so dumb regarding health care costs!
1) Doctors tell us they cause $850 billion a year in excess claims paid by insurance companies out of fear of lawsuits.
Proof that they do this is in this study!
http://www.jacksonhealthcare.com/media/8968/defensivemedicine_ebook_final.pdf

90% of physicians surveyed say they order $850 billion a year in wasted duplicate tests, referrals all out of FEAR of being SUED!
Physicians estimate the cost of defensive medicine in US at $650 to $850 billion per year.
--- Emergency medicine, primary care, and OB/GYN physicians are most likely to practice defensive medicine.
--- 79 to 83% of surgeons and OB/GYNs have been named in lawsuits.
"Physicians contracted by the federal government practice significantly less defensive medicine as they are protected against lawsuits by the
1946 Federal Tort Claims Act. "
-- BUT........Only 48% practice defensive medicine compared to 92% of non-government physicians.
Consider that fact that of the physicians interviewed 52% DID NOT practice defensive medicine!
Who were they? Doctors contracted by federal government!
WHY did these doctors NOT practice "defensive medicine"??? 1946 Tort reform!

The insurance companies don't care as they simple raise the premiums.
If lawyers' $270 BILLION a year income was taxed 10% as ACA taxes tanning salons, that $27 billion would provide $5,000 premium for each of the
less then 4 million true Americans that want and need insurance.
Simple fact.

So lawsuits are the main reason why it cost 3x more, adjusted for inflation, to have a baby now then it did in the 60s?

How the cost of giving birth in the U.S. has TRIPLED since 1996 to $9,775 - thanks to expensive fees for everything from an epidural to placenta removal

At the bottom of the link price transparency is being addressed. Why the huge delta? Is Maricopa Medical Center immune from lawsuits?

You dummy! It isn't ONLY lawsuits!
Ever hear of EMTALA??? Of course not you are a dummy.
Back in 1986 Congress thought they were being helpful to the uninsured and passed this law. Look it up and then you'll understand why hospitals
charge $3,000 or more for a CAT scan that actually costs and I've got the statistics to show it...less the $100 to perform...i.e. overhead salaries,etc!
Hospitals making nearly 3,000% markup!
And then you have idiots today doing what NOT one of us with common sense would do years ago!
Look at this and translate into increasing stupid claims filed by these idiots. And then who pays for them? Higher premiums dummy!
View attachment 62693

View attachment 62692

And you mention just ONE reason why health care costs have skyrocketed!
Dummy you know nothing about health care finances.

Do you suggest that people quit living and live in a bubble to protect hospitals from going rogue on us ? If we had a card that could be used where we choose to use it, then wouldn't that put the free market system in check on bilking our government and we the tax payers out of our money ?

 

[beagle9]

Hmm, tried to respond to a poster here, but it says I don't have access to that page when I hit reply.. ?