America Founded as a Christian Nation

[Porter Rockwell]

The vast majority of the liberals have run screaming from this thread. THe few that remained, like W, have done what they could, but they have not been able to deny Rockwell's premise.


Indeed some, like Ascelipa, have admitted the premise.


It is not time to shut down THIS thread and start another where the premise is a given, and discuss the long term ramifications?

I would say that we can never shut down this thread as every time we've come to the end of it, someone will post without even having read the first post. If a moderator were to shut it down, it would be on a note wherein the liberals have the last word so as to make it appear that we did not address the issue.

But, I did delve into the area you asked about in posts # 678 and # 689. I would like to incorporate one of the facts I brought to the table in post # 689. Let me quote it and expound on it:

"After decades of stability from the 1920s to the early 1970s, the rate of imprisonment in the United States more than quadrupled during the last four decades."

https://www.nap.edu/read/18613/chapter/4

I'm sure that fact was not compiled anticipating this discussion. But, if we look at what people have gotten into trouble over, it is generally for doing things that a nation with a higher moral tone would never have dreamed of doing on the whole. Since the high Court illegally legislated from the bench in 1962 and created the artificial separation of church and state, the moral tone has caused this nation to become evil and divisive. Most people who know what America was like before the government tried to adopt secular humanism as its unofficial state religion want to return to that atmosphere. I have one or two questions to ask of our resident troll and then every objection the left has on this topic will only require a cut and paste of the appropriate post number.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

23985744

THe few that remained, like W, have done what they could, but they have not been able to deny Rockwell's premise.

Rockwell’s premise is dead. It goes nowhere. He lied. He took a statement from Jefferson and edited out words from a sentence to change what the writer meant.

Rockwell removed words from Jefferson’s sentence that were not separated by a comma. He did that. He distorted the entire context and intent of what was said. Nobody does that. He cannot deny he did that. The proof is in writing that he did that. What kind of dishonest person would do that and continue claiming they did nothing writing.

What’ kind of idiot can’t see what PR did?

 

[Porter Rockwell]

23985744

THe few that remained, like W, have done what they could, but they have not been able to deny Rockwell's premise.

Rockwell’s premise is dead. It goes nowhere. He lied. He took a statement from Jefferson and edited out words from a sentence to change what the writer meant.

Rockwell removed words from Jefferson’s sentence that were not separated by a comma. He did that. He distorted the entire context and intent of what was said. Nobody does that. He cannot deny he did that. The proof is in writing that he did that. What kind of dishonest person would do that and continue claiming they did nothing writing.

What’ kind of idiot can’t see what PR did?

You are a lying POS. I did no such thing. I quoted from the information I had. You are a pathological liar. Not only did I quote from the information I had, but I looked up the source wherein the entire quote could be found so that readers could check it for accuracy. But I damn well didn't lie and you are a lying coward. You have been caught in more than one lie and now you have gone off the deep end.

So, I have one question for you. I cited the source. Did you go and read the entire book?

 

[Porter Rockwell]

NotfooledbyW has made it his life mission to call me a liar after he was caught by other posters willingly, knowingly and deliberately LYING to the posters here.

I did not lie and am telling NotfooledbyW that he will not call me a liar in a face to face debate. I will provide the forum. All of you are invited. All he has to do is show up.

Even if my quote was incomplete, it would not wholly be my fault as I quoted what I had at that time. When any of you quote someone - on any subject, do you go and read entire books or entire articles? Of course not. So, unless NotfooledbyW has read the entire book to which I allude, he is doing what he's accusing me of doing. But, here is where our resident troll has a a problem: I found corroborating evidence to prove that Thomas Jefferson, AT ONE POINT IN HIS LIFE, was a practicing Christian. Even in 1816 when Jefferson wrote that letter (a full FORTY YEARS after Jefferson penned the Declaration of Independence AND worked on the Virginia state constitution), he's still saying that he is a Christian - just not like what FooledbyW would like to hear from a Christian.

Unless NOTFOOLEDBYW can tell us that he honestly looked up the book I cited and read it, then HE is the liar. A lot changes in our ideology in a forty year period - a fact I've produced historical quotes from to prove my point - along with the FULL CITATION. Jefferson said he was a Christian. That is true. I did not change the meaning by using a quote found on the Internet that substantiates Jefferson's claim. NOTFOOLEDBYW has nothing to prove that Jefferson was anything less than what he claimed except that if you don't fit NOTFOOLEDBYW's personal definition of what constitutes a Christian.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Adding more fuel to the fire to prove our Christian roots that made us a Christian nation:

Sample Letters to the Editor - WallBuilders

Is America a Christian Nation? More Quotes from our Founders

Now, let's boil the left's argument down to its basic level:

Was America Founded As A Christian Nation?

Soooooo.... the greatest proof in the minds of the secularists / humanists / atheists is the Treaty of Tripoli.

So, let me see... The Treaty of Tripoli was challenged, denounced, and repealed. Another Treaty was made, omitting the false declaration that we were not founded on the Christian religion

VERSUS

THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT RULING Church of the Holy Trinity v. United States, 143 U.S. 457 (1892):

In the case of Holy Trinity, the United States Supreme Court stated:

"If we pass beyond these matters to a view of American life, as expressed by its laws, its business, its customs, and its society, we find everywhere a clear recognition of the same truth. Among other matters, note the following: the form of oath universally prevailing, concluding with an appeal to the Almighty; the custom of opening sessions of all deliberative bodies and most conventions with prayer; the prefatory words of all wills, "In the name of God, amen"; the laws respecting the observance of the Sabbath, with the general cessation of all secular business, and the closing of courts, legislatures, and other similar public assemblies on that day; the churches and church organizations which abound in every city, town, and hamlet; the multitude of charitable organizations existing everywhere under Christian auspices; the gigantic missionary associations, with general support, and aiming to establish Christian missions in every quarter of the globe. These, and many other matters which might be noticed, add a volume of unofficial declarations to the mass of organic utterances that this is a Christian nation."

The Treaty of Tripoli was rescinded and no longer exists. It was replaced by another treaty during the lives of the founders. In addition, there is a lot of doubt that the words the left likes to harp on were ever actually in that treaty:

"In 1931 Hunter Miller completed a commission by the United States government to analyze United States' treaties and to explain how they function and what they mean to the United States' legal position in relationship with the rest of the world.[22] According to Hunter Miller's notes, "the Barlow translation is at best a poor attempt at a paraphrase or summary of the sense of the Arabic" and "Article 11 ... does not exist at all."

Treaty of Tripoli - Wikipedia

So, you have a treaty that no longer exists and the section making the claim that we were not founded on the Christian religion being disputed versus a STANDING SUPREME COURT RULING stating we ARE a Christian Nation a century later.

You do not have to be a Rhodes scholar to understand which of these positions is the most authoritative.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

Bottom line: America was founded as a Christian nation.

Disagree.

As soon as one says that the atheists and other non-believers will start with their lies and straw man arguments.

Hmm. This seems to be a straw man argument within itself. You just introduced a philosophical argument and instantly openly dismissed any counter arguments from any segment of society you might have a philosophical disagreement with. Not really much to go from there, pal. Best of luck.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Having read the resident troll's constant harping on the subject of God's only representative in the United States, Thomas Jefferson ( sarcasm intended), there are some points to be made about that individual so that we can move on:

1) "Care must also be taken in evaluating Jefferson’s statements on religion, both because he often defined terms in a rather idiosyncratic manner, and because many comments with literal religious significance must be understood in the context of social convention as much as theology (e.g. telling a bereaved spouse that he/she might meet the departed in an afterlife may evidence empathy as much as theology). Still, much can be said about Jefferson’s religion.

...Jefferson’s views on an afterlife developed over time, and historians disagree on what he believed in this regard. As a young man, he seemed to have a relatively conventional view of heaven."

SOURCE: Jefferson's Religious Beliefs | Thomas Jefferson's Monticello

2) This confirms that the Jefferson of 1776 was a different man, ideologically speaking than the man of 1816. Who Thomas Jefferson was in 1776 is easily ascertained in his work on the 1776 constitution of the state of Virginia. For about the tenth time, this is what Jefferson signs his name to only weeks after finishing the Declaration of Independence:

"Sec. 16. That religion, or the duty which we owe to our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence; and therefore all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience; and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity towards each other." Virginia State Constitution of 1776

SOURCE: The Constitution of Virginia (1776)


3) The resident troll makes much ado about a letter, written when Jefferson, some forty years older that, in the troll's mind, proves Jefferson did not consider himself a Christian. The troll is wrong. Here is the complete letter:

SOURCE: To Charles Thomson Monticello, January 9, 1816 < The Letters of Thomas Jefferson 1743-1826 < Thomas Jefferson < Presidents < American History From Revolution To Reconstruction and beyond

NOTHING in that letter contradicts the fact that, despite the Enlightenment, that Jefferson considered himself anything less than what he claimed. "I" never misquoted the man nor tampered with his words. I cut and pasted from a source and then cited where they got it from. Further reading and posted facts show, unequivocally, that Jefferson was no mainstream Christian, but he was what he claimed as far as Jefferson, himself, was concerned. Jefferson, in the above letter, was wary of people like the resident troll, so Jefferson said in that letter:

"...very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselves Christians ..."

Jefferson said it was "Platonists" that called him an infidel. So, even the source I used did NOT take Jefferson out of context. Jefferson changed ideologically over 40 years... just as I have, so, I know where he's coming from.

So, now you have the rest of the story and each time the resident troll calls me a liar, I'm going to post this and the challenge that he meet me one on one, bring his facts and call me a liar in front of a live crowd. I'll provide the place and the public will be welcome. He won't see you there because he won't be showing up. He wants an audience on the Internet. Trouble is, if you read this entire thread, he has had his ass kicked over this so many times other posters are getting tired of giving him the beat down. So this is how we end his allegations and all future posts about Jefferson will elicit a copy - paste of this response and that will be all.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Bottom line: America was founded as a Christian nation.

Disagree.

As soon as one says that the atheists and other non-believers will start with their lies and straw man arguments.

Hmm. This seems to be a straw man argument within itself. You just introduced a philosophical argument and instantly openly dismissed any counter arguments from any segment of society you might have a philosophical disagreement with. Not really much to go from there, pal. Best of luck.

That was a dumbass statement. Read the thread and save yourself from getting embarrassed.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

America was founded as a Christian nation.

As soon as one says that the atheists and other non-believers will start with their lies and straw man arguments. They will tell you that I just said America was founded as a theocracy. AMERICA WAS NOT FOUNDED AS A THEOCRACY. IT WAS FOUNDED AS A REPUBLIC BASED UPON CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLES.

Politics is nothing more than religion in action. Our sense of right and wrong are all predicated on moral values and we got from biblical precepts. The very first governing document of the New World was the Mayflower Compact. It states:

In the name of God, Amen. We, whose names are underwritten, the loyal subjects of our dread Sovereign Lord King James, by the Grace of God, of Great Britain, France, and Ireland, King, defender of the Faith, etc.


Having undertaken, for the Glory of God, and “advancements of the Christian faith”

Okay, I’m well aware that St. Augustine is the oldest city in the U.S, the Spaniards were there before the colonists and that other colonists preceded those on the Mayflower. That Mayflower Compact was the first GOVERNING document of the New World. Colonization and founding are synonymous.

The First Charter of Virginia of 1606 stated:

“We greatly commending, and graciously accepting of, their Desires for the Furtherance of so noble a Work, which may, by the Providence of Almighty God, hereafter tend to the Glory his Divine Majesty, in propagating of Christian Religion to such People, as yet live in Darkness and miserable Ignorance of the true Knowledge and Worship of God, and may in time bring the Infidels and Savages, living in those parts, to human Civility, to a settled and quiet government.”

Similar language attesting to our Christian roots during this period would be the Second Charter of Virginia of 1609, Third Charter of Virginia 1611 – 1612, The Charter of New England 1620, Ordinances For Virginia, July 24, 1621, The Charter of Massachusetts Bay 1629, and I will add more to the chorological order each time I post.

In 1630, John Winthrop delivered a sermon aboard the Arbella as it sailed toward the New World. That sermon has been cited by U.S. statesmen including, but not limited to JFK and Ronald Reagan. It defines WHO the colonists were and what their objective was in the New World. Any sermon being quoted by American politicians 300 years later deserves to be examined. Here is a link to it and it is a must read if you want to add intelligent commentary to this thread:

https://www.casa-arts.org/cms/lib/PA01925203/Centricity/Domain/50/A Model of Christian Charity.pdf More to come

 

[Porter Rockwell]

I want you to have access to some of the major Charters, Compacts, etc. that lead up to our values as a nation. So, I will list some more you can access to see that the colonies were founded on Christian principles consistent with the OP.

You may want to Google The Charter of Maryland of 1632, Grant Of The Province Of New Hampshire To Mr. Mason of 22 April 1635, Fundamental Orders of Connecticut 1638 – 1639, Agreement of the Settlers At Exeter in New Hampshire of 1639Fundamental Agreement Of The Colony Of New Haven june 4, 1639, Grant Of The Province Of Maine 1639, Massachusetts Body Of Liberties 1641, and I will quote some of the others in posts to come along with the language that unequivocally proves that the colonies were all based upon the Bible.

The earliest state constitutions made it clear as well that America was founded as a Christian nation. For example, the Constitution of Connecticut of 1776:

Art. 22. Every person who shall be chosen a member of either house, or appointed to any office or place of trust, before taking his seat, or entering upon the execution of his office, shall take the following oath, or affirmation, if conscientiously scrupulous of taking an oath, to wit:

” I, A B. will bear true allegiance to the Delaware State, submit to its constitution and laws, and do no act wittingly whereby the freedom thereof may be prejudiced.”

And also make and subscribe the following declaration, to wit:

” I, A B. do profess faith in God the Father, and in Jesus Christ His only Son, and in the Holy Ghost, one God, blessed for evermore; and I do acknowledge the holy scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be given by divine inspiration.”

Similar language will be found in the state constitutions of Delaware (1776), Georgia (1777), Maryland (1776), Constitution or Form of Government for the Commonwealth of Massachusetts (1780), New Hampshire (1784), New Jersey (1776) New York (1777), North Carolina (1776) Pennsylvania (1776), South Carolina (1778) Vermont (1777), and Virginia (1777.) If you want the exact language of any of those state constitutions, let me know which one and I will post the applicable section(s.)

By the time we get to the United States Constitution, the atheists and unbelievers cannot find any Christian influence therein. I mentioned all the aforementioned state constitutions for a reason. ALL of them have sections requiring a person to take an oath in order to hold elective office. Now, let me quote from the Constitution of the United States:

“The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.” Article VI Paragraph III of the U.S. Constitution

There is a difference between an oath and a test. A religious test is prohibited. An oath is NOT prohibited and most state constitutions required one to be a Christian in order to hold public office. Feel free to Google any of the above earliest state constitutions to verify that. I will do more posts a little later showing you Christian principles in the Constitution and debunking the critics most oft used ruses.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

THE CONSTITUTION AND THE BIBLE

In post # 2, I cited the state constitutions requiring one to be a Christian in order to hold elective office and in the ending paragraph, we discussed Article VI Paragraph III of the U.S. Constitution which requires all U.S. Senators and Representatives to be bound by an Oath or Affirmation. This is an oath, NOT a test (which would be prohibited.)

It seems pretty clear that the framers had no objection to the states requiring their politicians to be Christians. The other question is, can we find implications that the Constitution has biblical connections therein?

If you look at the early state constitutions Maryland had a tax "for the support of the Christian religion." Funny thing, THAT was not attacked by the framers in the Constitution, so there is lot to be said about what is NOT in the Constitution. NOTHING in the Constitution hampers the states from requiring their politicians to be Christians NOR taxing the people to educate the people regarding the Christian religion.

In a letter to Rev. Jasper Adams in 1833 regarding the "relations" Christianity has with the social, civil, and political "institutions" of America, Chief Justice John Marshall wrote:

"No person, I believe questions in importance of religion to the happiness of man even during the existence of this world... The American population is entirely Christian & with us Christianity and Religion are identified. It would be strange, indeed if, with such a people, our institutions did not presuppose Christianity & did not refer to it exhibit relations with it"

I mention that because it is one man's opinion (just as Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists was a private letter, neither of which are mandatory or even persuasive authority in a court of law.) BTW, Jefferson's separation of church and state means 180 degrees opposite of what the left claims.

Somewhere in the middle is the answer and I will continue to point these things out. There will be more posts on the biblical references in the Constitution.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

A continuation of posts # 1 , 2, 7, 17, and 35 (plus others)

If we start with some of America's founding documents, we begin to get a picture of what we mean when we say America was founded as Christian nation. In the Declaration of Independence, we find these words:


"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

If America could be summed up in one word, it would be Liberty. It was the battle cry that, after much debate, stirred the colonists up to the point that 56 men were willing to sign onto the Declaration of Independence, pledging to each other their Lives, their Fortunes, and their Sacred Honor. Imagine trying to get 56 men today to sign a document like that in support of Liberty today!

The most important things to consider about the Declaration of Independence:

1) The Declaration of Independence starts out with a presupposition that we have a Creator. This is just an observation, but those are the words of Thomas Jefferson penned. That simply does not sound too secular to me

2) This Creator (your God, whomever you deem that to be) bestowed upon you, at birth, unalienable Rights (of which the secularists helped to abolish recently.) Those Rights were God given, inherent, natural, absolute, irrevocable, unalienable and above the law (see
Cockrum v. State, 24 Tex. 394 (1859) ) as one example

3) Among those Rights was Liberty. Liberty was a concept that Jefferson understood from a Christian perspective. Jefferson stated:

"...nothing then is unchangeable but the inherent and unalienable rights of man." Letter to John Cartwright 5 June 1824)

Secularism cannot accept that premise, so to pretend Thomas Jefferson was not a Christian is laughable. Liberty is an unalienable Right. If that Right is given by a Creator, then you have to believe in a God in order to make such an assertion. And THAT should have as much authority as an out of context statement Jefferson made to the Danbury Baptists - that means 180 degrees of what unbelievers think - IF you read that letter in its full context.

II Corinthians 3 : 17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

Bottom line: America was founded as a Christian nation.

Disagree.

As soon as one says that the atheists and other non-believers will start with their lies and straw man arguments.

Hmm. This seems to be a straw man argument within itself. You just introduced a philosophical argument and instantly openly dismissed any counter arguments from any segment of society you might have a philosophical disagreement with. Not really much to go from there, pal. Best of luck.

That was a dumbass statement. Read the thread and save yourself from getting embarrassed.

No. You have given me no good reason to by killing any inclination for any polite conversation I might have had in your opening salvo of hatred for anything or anyone not in line with your opening philosophical arguments. In my opinion, your debate skills need serious work.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

When anyone is so stupid as to come here and insult me, expecting a polite conversation before reading the thread - at least the first post and reading the links, they are in the wrong universe. Read the thread and you will figure out why.

Year of the Bible - The Proclamation


111th Congress, 1st Session, H. Con. Res. 121
Encouraging the President of the United States to designate 2010 as
“The National Year of the Bible”
In the House of Representatives --- May 7, 2009

Mr. BROUN (for himself, Mr. WESTMORELAND, Mr. FORBES, Mr. PENCE, Mr. GINGREY, Mr. FRANKS, Mr. JORDAN, Mr. WAMP, Mr. LAMBORN, Mr. GOHMERT, Mr. AKIN, Mr. CARTER, Mr. MARCHANT, and Mr. MCGOVERN) submitted the following concurrent resolution; which was referred to the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform.

Whereas the Bible has had a profound impact in shaping America into a great nation;

Whereas deep religious beliefs stemming from the Old and New Testament of the Bible have inspired Americans from all walks of life, especially the early settlers, whose faith, spiritual courage, and moral strength enabled them to endure intense hardships in this new land;

Whereas many of our Presidents have recognized the importance of God and the Bible, including George Washington; Franklin D. Roosevelt; Harry Truman; John F. Kennedy; Ronald Reagan, who declared 1983 as “The National Year of the Bible”; and especially Abraham Lincoln, whose 200th Birthday Celebration in 2009 highlighted freedom for the slaves;

Whereas shared Biblical beliefs unified the colonists and gave our early leaders the wisdom to write the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the United States, both of which recognized the inherent worth, dignity, and inalienable rights of each individual, thus unifying a diverse people with the right to vote, and the freedoms of speech and vast religious freedoms, which inspired courageous men like Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. to lead the Civil Rights Movement;

Whereas the Bible has been the world’s best selling book since it was first published in English in 1526, and has influenced more people than any other book;

Whereas the Bible has been a cornerstone in the development of Western civilization, influencing the nations in the areas of history, law, politics, culture, music, literature, art, drama, and especially moral philosophy;

Whereas the Bible, used as a moral guide, has inspired compassion, love for our neighbor, and the preciousness of life and marriage, and has stimulated many benevolent, faith-based community initiatives and neighborhood partnerships that have healed and blessed our families, communities, and our entire Nation, especially in times of war, tragedy, and economic and social crisis;

Whereas the Bible has inspired acts of patriotism that have unified Americans, commemorated through shared celebrations such as Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Day, Presidents Day, Memorial Day, Independence Day, Labor Day, Thanksgiving, and Christmas; and

Whereas 2010 is an appropriate year to designate as “The National Year of the Bible”: Now, therefore, be it resolved by the House of Representatives (the Senate concurring), That the President is encouraged—
(1) to designate an appropriate year as “The National Year of the Bible”; and
(2) to issue a proclamation calling upon citizens of all faiths to rediscover and apply the priceless, timeless message of the Holy Scripture which has profoundly influenced and shaped the United States and its great democratic form of government, as well as its rich spiritual heritage, and which has unified, healed and strengthened its people for over 200 years.

While I do not agree with all of the above, it is on the right track. You should not have holidays honoring communists or pagan holidays in a Christian nation. But, to each his own.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

READ THE THREAD. Here is post # 68 repeated. Other posts are being reposted to get you up to speed since you don't seem to have much going for you in reading ability. READ THE THREAD if you want to contribute:

You should try reading the thread. Here are some of our stopping points:

https://www.casa-arts.org/cms/lib/PA01925203/Centricity/Domain/50/A Model of Christian Charity.pdf

That is the most important link on this thread and it was in the first two posts. You didn't even read that far??? Here are some more:

The Old Jerusalem is Not the New JerUSAlem

http://www.kimmillerconcernedchristians.com/Unsealings/1425.pdf

Founders Online: To George Washington from the Members of the New Jerusalem Chu …

https://www.americanantiquarian.org/proceedings/44517596.pdf

Apocalypticism Explained | Apocalypse! FRONTLINE | PBS

Our Father's Kingdom of America: America the New Jerusalem

New Jerusalem

Full text of "Sheldon Emry-The Marks Of Israel"

The premise of this thread is to show that America was founded as a Christian nation. The above links show that premise to be accurate and that the belief that not only were we founded on Christian principles, but America was the New Jerusalem.

Now, can we return to the OP? You really aren't even going to click on the links anyway.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Post # 91 repeated for you:

This is a continuation of posts 1 , 2, 7, 17, 35, 39, and 56

After suffering ignorant people (of whom I have little patience with - ESPECIALLY when they make assumptions and never ask questions) I got a little off track.

In the posts between 56 and this one I had to prove that Jefferson was a Christian. The stupidity of non-believers on that one is astonishing. But, a lot of people fall for the argument of non - believers because this discussion lacks context.

The founders / framers of the Constitution were mortal men. They were sinners - even those who were dedicated Christians. Throughout their lives they would have varying views on the Bible. You have probably gone through some of it yourselves. We don't believe; someone convinces you differently so you believe; a radical change in our lives (like a bad experience with a religious group or a dramatically change in life like a death or major health issue) and people change their views again.

People like Jefferson, Washington, etc., etc. were also politicians. So, it becomes hard to deduce what they were really about at varying stages of their lives. That is why I used the law - statutes, Compacts, Charters, and references within our system to show where we developed our cultural values from.

America uses the common law to interpret our laws. That system is based on Anglo Saxon jurisprudence.

Common law - The feudal land law

There is the general influence of the Bible through the medium of the Christian religion upon the law. It has been often said, indeed, that Christianity is part of the common law of England, and this is due in great measure to the authority of Sir Matthew Hale (King v. Taylor, i Vent. 293, 3 Keble 507), Blackstone and other writers, while Lord Mansfield held (Chamberlain of London v. Evans, 1767) that the essential principles of revealed religion are part of the common law.

The next time you want to know how the courts arrive at a decision, it is via the common law. So, in short, our system of interpreting the law is predicated upon the way the Bible is interpreted - Commandments, like statutes are given and the courts apply fact situations to the law in the same way the Bible explains the application of law.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Here is the rest of the first of my posts. Questions?

AMERICA IS WAS FOUNDED AS A CHRISTIAN NATION

This is a continuation of posts 1 , 2, 7, 17, 35, 39, 56, and 91

We've now passed the 100 post mark and the unbelievers have failed to refute those above posts. We're seeing the beginnings of them attacking me with falsehoods and the most illiterate of the bunch, trying to derail the thread with lies. OMG. How desperate can they get!!!


America was founded as a Christian nation. The LIARS who are pretending to be critics try their best to insinuate that I said America is a Christian nation and / or we are a theocracy. Neither statement is true. What IS true is that those illiterate critics who refuse to access the provided links are LYING.

But, we move forward. There is a move to distance the posterity of the framers of the Constitution, divide them, and replace our government with some nonexistent utopia.

The fact is America became the envy of the world because we used to have a culture. America was built on the twin pillars of race and religion. Our values were rooted in the Holy Bible. AND, America was blessed in proportion to the numbers of people that made an attempt to observe God's laws.

The equalitarians, Democrats as an example, passed laws that claimed to just be giving everyone an equal say and make non-whites citizens. As those people flooded America, they began to erase our national identity and erase our history. Today we are a reflection of what my critics want America to be - NOT what it was when America could lay claim to being the greatest nation in the world.

My purpose in participating on this thread is to reach those who have been disenfranchised and see that something is amiss. Americans have been programmed to find fault with the founders and framers of this country while showing the highest degree of respect and tolerance for any other religion, culture, class, etc. of people. The posterity of the founders have been programmed to hate themselves and they carry abound a phony guilt complex, instilled in them by a political power that seeks to control them from the womb to the tomb.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Everything {Jefferson} ever wrote on Christianity “was vitiated by his puerile understanding of the claims of Revelation and the Incarnation. Deep mysteries like the Trinity, Creation, Original Sin, the Immaculate Conception, the Atonement, the Resurrection, and the Real Presence of Christ he scorned as priestly frauds.22 “. {See CATHOLIC VIEW below.}

23986722.

So, I have one question for you. I cited the source. Did you go and read the entire book?

You cited a source. That source proves you lied because that source, which I had to find because you provided no link, proved to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are a pathetic, half brained liar.

Reading the entire source is not necessary because you are a liar because one only need to read the full statement by Jefferson’s pen, to see that what you say and try to sell as Jefferson’s intent is the exact opposite of the full sentence in context. You left out “very different from” in the sentence right after Jefferson wrote what you claim that Jefferson self identifies as a Real Christian.

But, in the same statement, Jefferson goes on to self-identify as a real Christian very different from .. very different from what?

Read on: Very Different FROM.....

“the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselves Christians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw.”

Very simple to understand Jefferson’s intent of this passage. It is Jefferson stating to his friend that he is a Christian very different from the Christian who believes in the dogma of the false four gospels. Jefferson continues to explain his contempt for the Church and priests that corrupted Jesus’ original and human moral Philosophy.

Jefferson in the statement you cite claims to be a Christian very different from corrupt Christians such as you.

And that only understanding of Jefferson’s true intent is backed by the volumes of his lifetime of writing and multitude of religious scholars who basically all agree on this:

Catholic view Library : The Relevance of Thomas Jefferson

Demythologizing Orthodoxy / However, the practical-minded American could accept his master's religious liberalism, with its aversion to priests and dogmas. Jefferson's nominalistic conception of man, as a "law unto himself" in religious matters, and the consequences of this belief for religious orthodoxy, make up a good part of his writings over the years. Everything he ever wrote on Christianity was vitiated by his puerile understanding of the claims of Revelation and the Incarnation. Deep mysteries like the Trinity, Creation, Original Sin, the Immaculate Conception, the Atonement, the Resurrection, and the Real Presence of Christ he scorned as priestly frauds.22 They were empirically unverifiable, to use the modern expression of positivists. "Rejecting all organs of information, therefore, but my senses," he arrogantly observed to John Adams late in life, "I rid myself of the pyrrhonisms with which an indulgence in speculations hyperphysical and antiphysical, so uselessly occupy and disquiet the mind. A single sense may indeed," he continued, be sometimes deceived, but rarely; and never all our senses together, with their faculty of reasoning. They evidence realities, and there are enough of these for all the purposes of life, without plunging into the fathomless abyss of dreams and phantasms. I am satisfied, and sufficiently occupied with the things which are, without tormenting or troubling myself about those which may indeed be, but of which I have no evidence.23

 

[TroglocratsRdumb]

daily observation: dems preach tolerance, but practice hate

 

[whutTHEYsay]

#. 23986781

"I" never misquoted the man nor tampered with his words.

Post #800 That is a lie. There is no debate about this.

Readers need see nothing other than (A)the misquote and tampered with words as posted by Rockwell and (B) the actual words as written by Jefferson that were doctored by Rockwell himself or by his source and (C) The full thought, intent and message, that Jefferson was conveying to his friend.

(A) "I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."

(B) A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselvesChristians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw.


(C) To Charles Thomson Monticello, January 9, 1816.

To Charles Thomson Monticello, January 9, 1816 < The Letters of Thomas Jefferson 1743-1826 < Thomas Jefferson < Presidents < American History From Revolution To Reconstruction and beyond


I am reminded of this duty by the receipt, through our friend Dr. Patterson, of your synopsis of the four Evangelists. I had procured it as soon as I saw it advertised, and had become familiar with its use; but this copy is the more valued as it comes from your hand. This work bears the stamp of that accuracy which marks everything from you, and will be useful to those who, not taking things on trust, recur for themselves to the fountain of pure morals. I, too, have made a wee-little book from the same materials, which I call the Philosophy of Jesus; it is a paradigma of his doctrines, made by cutting the texts out of the book, and arranging them on the pages of a blank book, in a certain order of time or subject. A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselvesChristians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw. They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man, of which the great reformer of the vicious ethics and deism of the Jews, were he to return on earth, would not recognize one feature. If I had time I would add to my little book the Greek, Latin and French texts, in columns side by side.


Post #531.

"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."

--The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, p. 385.

It is doctoring a quote when you leave out punctuation and start a quote in the middle of a sentence.

Rockwell’s posted sentence is in quotation marks:

"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."

The true quote is: “...; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian,......”

The Document in proof is the mini Bible where Jefferson cut out the supernatural dung that Jefferson believed corrupted the moral teachings of Jesus of Nazareth,

Rockwell’s version as all can see starts as if Jefferson was saying, "I am a real Christian -

Nothing about the “proof” that Jefferson had in mind.

Then at the other end of Rockwell’s attempted fraud is a period inside the quotation marks.

that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."

.....Christ."

That period is a lie. It is a doctored quote.

but bigger than sticking a little period in there Rockwell inserts the word “Christ”

Then after inserting a word into the fake quote, Rockwell leaves out the next three key words that follow a comma not the fake period.

“VERY DIFFERENT FROM”

“.....n; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, wh.....”

Rockwell can deny he tampered with Jefferson’s words but this Post #800 proves he did beyond the shadow of a doubt.