Amazing, Six Members of the Clown Car did WHAT?

[The Rabbi]

No, it's not a choice...religion is.

I said yesterday that many factors are involved. Not a choice at all? That's probably true sometimes but not always. What many omit is that human sexuality is complicated and a manifestation of your true self. That's why some people are dictators in the bedroom, or totally passive, whatever.

I've found every homosexual I've talked to over the years to be very rebellious and counter culture in nature. There may be good reasons they got that way but to say no one can determine how they deal with their environment isn't credible.

So in that sense, yes it's a pseudo religion at a minimum. There's the belief no one can be who they want to be and then the devotion to proselytizing to win over adherents to the cause.

It's a choice. People choose to act out their perverse natures or not.

That's true but I was talking about the desire.

People have desires for all sorts of things. But few act them out entirely.

That's where the rebellious nature comes in.

Or whatever.
Leonard Bernstein was married for over 20 years to a woman. Then when she was dying of cancer he left her to join his gay lover.
No one can say he didnt make a choice here.

 

[Iceweasel]

I said yesterday that many factors are involved. Not a choice at all? That's probably true sometimes but not always. What many omit is that human sexuality is complicated and a manifestation of your true self. That's why some people are dictators in the bedroom, or totally passive, whatever.

I've found every homosexual I've talked to over the years to be very rebellious and counter culture in nature. There may be good reasons they got that way but to say no one can determine how they deal with their environment isn't credible.

So in that sense, yes it's a pseudo religion at a minimum. There's the belief no one can be who they want to be and then the devotion to proselytizing to win over adherents to the cause.

It's a choice. People choose to act out their perverse natures or not.

That's true but I was talking about the desire.

People have desires for all sorts of things. But few act them out entirely.

That's where the rebellious nature comes in.

Or whatever.
Leonard Bernstein was married for over 20 years to a woman. Then when she was dying of cancer he left her to join his gay lover.
No one can say he didnt make a choice here.

Yep, and I know gals that switched teams. Some of them switched back.

 

[Seawytch]

I'm beginning to believe homosexuality actually IS a religion.

No, it's not a choice...religion is.

I said yesterday that many factors are involved. Not a choice at all? That's probably true sometimes but not always. What many omit is that human sexuality is complicated and a manifestation of your true self. That's why some people are dictators in the bedroom, or totally passive, whatever.

I've found every homosexual I've talked to over the years to be very rebellious and counter culture in nature. There may be good reasons they got that way but to say no one can determine how they deal with their environment isn't credible.

So in that sense, yes it's a pseudo religion at a minimum. There's the belief no one can be who they want to be and then the devotion to proselytizing to win over adherents to the cause.

The only choice is in acting upon our natural or god given inclinations.

 

[Seawytch]

When you agree to do business, you agree to comply with the law of the locality in which you conduct business. Racists had to serve blacks...even if they were religiously opposed.

No racist was religiously opposed to serving blacks. Anotehr red herring.
People have religious rights which trump whatever the law is. It is a reasonable accomodation issue. Why should the state be involved in saying who you can and cannot do business with? It is back to the Nazi era and the anti-Jewish laws.

So a racist could deny service to a black person if they say it violates their religion?

What religion teaches not serving black people?
Another red herring.

Let me quote Rabbi to Rabbi:

"They claim it violates their religious beliefs. Have you examined their souls or something?"

And the racists were just as sure of THEIR bible versus as the anti gay bigots are of theirs.

“Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red and he placed them on separate continents. . . . The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix.”
Judge Leon M. Bazile

Anecdote is not evidence.
Next.

Your words Rabbi...

"They claim it violates their religious beliefs. Have you examined their souls or something?"

 

[Seawytch]

I'm beginning to believe homosexuality actually IS a religion.

No, it's not a choice...religion is.

I said yesterday that many factors are involved. Not a choice at all? That's probably true sometimes but not always. What many omit is that human sexuality is complicated and a manifestation of your true self. That's why some people are dictators in the bedroom, or totally passive, whatever.

I've found every homosexual I've talked to over the years to be very rebellious and counter culture in nature. There may be good reasons they got that way but to say no one can determine how they deal with their environment isn't credible.

So in that sense, yes it's a pseudo religion at a minimum. There's the belief no one can be who they want to be and then the devotion to proselytizing to win over adherents to the cause.

It's a choice. People choose to act out their perverse natures or not.

People who believe being gay is a choice, must be attracted to both men and women and chose only one. How'd you choose? You flip a coin? See, there was never any choice for me, I was just attracted to other girls.

 

[The Rabbi]

No racist was religiously opposed to serving blacks. Anotehr red herring.
People have religious rights which trump whatever the law is. It is a reasonable accomodation issue. Why should the state be involved in saying who you can and cannot do business with? It is back to the Nazi era and the anti-Jewish laws.

So a racist could deny service to a black person if they say it violates their religion?

What religion teaches not serving black people?
Another red herring.

Let me quote Rabbi to Rabbi:

"They claim it violates their religious beliefs. Have you examined their souls or something?"

And the racists were just as sure of THEIR bible versus as the anti gay bigots are of theirs.

“Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red and he placed them on separate continents. . . . The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix.”
Judge Leon M. Bazile

Anecdote is not evidence.
Next.

Your words Rabbi...

"They claim it violates their religious beliefs. Have you examined their souls or something?"

I have no idea whether those were his religious beliefs or not. In any case he's been dead for years.
Another failed attempt at a point by Seabytch.

 

[The Rabbi]

I'm beginning to believe homosexuality actually IS a religion.

No, it's not a choice...religion is.

I said yesterday that many factors are involved. Not a choice at all? That's probably true sometimes but not always. What many omit is that human sexuality is complicated and a manifestation of your true self. That's why some people are dictators in the bedroom, or totally passive, whatever.

I've found every homosexual I've talked to over the years to be very rebellious and counter culture in nature. There may be good reasons they got that way but to say no one can determine how they deal with their environment isn't credible.

So in that sense, yes it's a pseudo religion at a minimum. There's the belief no one can be who they want to be and then the devotion to proselytizing to win over adherents to the cause.

It's a choice. People choose to act out their perverse natures or not.

People who believe being gay is a choice, must be attracted to both men and women and chose only one. How'd you choose? You flip a coin? See, there was never any choice for me, I was just attracted to other girls.

BUt you chose to act on it There's your choice.

 

[rightwinger]

I'm beginning to believe homosexuality actually IS a religion.

No, it's not a choice...religion is.

I said yesterday that many factors are involved. Not a choice at all? That's probably true sometimes but not always. What many omit is that human sexuality is complicated and a manifestation of your true self. That's why some people are dictators in the bedroom, or totally passive, whatever.

I've found every homosexual I've talked to over the years to be very rebellious and counter culture in nature. There may be good reasons they got that way but to say no one can determine how they deal with their environment isn't credible.

So in that sense, yes it's a pseudo religion at a minimum. There's the belief no one can be who they want to be and then the devotion to proselytizing to win over adherents to the cause.

It's a choice. People choose to act out their perverse natures or not.

People who believe being gay is a choice, must be attracted to both men and women and chose only one. How'd you choose? You flip a coin? See, there was never any choice for me, I was just attracted to other girls.

BUt you chose to act on it There's your choice.

So do you

 

[The Rabbi]

No, it's not a choice...religion is.

I said yesterday that many factors are involved. Not a choice at all? That's probably true sometimes but not always. What many omit is that human sexuality is complicated and a manifestation of your true self. That's why some people are dictators in the bedroom, or totally passive, whatever.

I've found every homosexual I've talked to over the years to be very rebellious and counter culture in nature. There may be good reasons they got that way but to say no one can determine how they deal with their environment isn't credible.

So in that sense, yes it's a pseudo religion at a minimum. There's the belief no one can be who they want to be and then the devotion to proselytizing to win over adherents to the cause.

It's a choice. People choose to act out their perverse natures or not.

People who believe being gay is a choice, must be attracted to both men and women and chose only one. How'd you choose? You flip a coin? See, there was never any choice for me, I was just attracted to other girls.

BUt you chose to act on it There's your choice.

So do you

More verbal farts from Nutwinger.
Thanks for agreeing that homosexuality is a choice.

 

[Seawytch]

So a racist could deny service to a black person if they say it violates their religion?

What religion teaches not serving black people?
Another red herring.

Let me quote Rabbi to Rabbi:

"They claim it violates their religious beliefs. Have you examined their souls or something?"

And the racists were just as sure of THEIR bible versus as the anti gay bigots are of theirs.

“Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red and he placed them on separate continents. . . . The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix.”
Judge Leon M. Bazile

Anecdote is not evidence.
Next.

Your words Rabbi...

"They claim it violates their religious beliefs. Have you examined their souls or something?"

I have no idea whether those were his religious beliefs or not. In any case he's been dead for years.
Another failed attempt at a point by Seabytch.

So original...Seabytch. Did you break your arm patting yourself on the back for that one?

It's a FACT, Rabbi, that people had (and still have) a religious objection to desegregation and interracial marriage. We did not grant these bigots exceptions to our laws, why should anti gay bigots get to ignore laws when we didn't let racist bigots do it?

There was also resistance rooted in religion to laws barring discrimination in public accommodations and education. For example, a barbeque franchise resisted compliance with the Civil Rights Act of 1964, refusing to serve African-Americans on the ground that the Act “contravene[d] the will of God.”29 The court rejected the defense, stating that, while the franchise owner “has a constitutional right to espouse the religious beliefs of his own choosing . . . he does not have the absolute right to exercise and practice such beliefs in utter disregard of the clear constitutional rights of other citizens.” Most famously, Bob Jones University and its companion plaintiff, Goldsboro Christian Schools, invoked religion to resist integration in education.31 Goldsboro regarded “[c]ultural or biological mixing of the races . . . as a violation of God’s command,”32 and sponsors of Bob Jones University maintained that “the Bible forbids interracial dating and marriage.”33 In the Supreme Court, the schools argued that the loss of their tax-exempt status because of their discriminatory policies violated their Free Exercise rights. The Supreme Court rejected the claim, reasoning that “the interests asserted by petitioners cannot be accommodated with [the] compelling governmental interest” in “eradicating racial discrimination in education—discrimination that prevailed, with official approval, for the first 165 years of this Nation’s constitutional history.”​

 

[Seawytch]

I'm beginning to believe homosexuality actually IS a religion.

No, it's not a choice...religion is.

I said yesterday that many factors are involved. Not a choice at all? That's probably true sometimes but not always. What many omit is that human sexuality is complicated and a manifestation of your true self. That's why some people are dictators in the bedroom, or totally passive, whatever.

I've found every homosexual I've talked to over the years to be very rebellious and counter culture in nature. There may be good reasons they got that way but to say no one can determine how they deal with their environment isn't credible.

So in that sense, yes it's a pseudo religion at a minimum. There's the belief no one can be who they want to be and then the devotion to proselytizing to win over adherents to the cause.

It's a choice. People choose to act out their perverse natures or not.

People who believe being gay is a choice, must be attracted to both men and women and chose only one. How'd you choose? You flip a coin? See, there was never any choice for me, I was just attracted to other girls.

BUt you chose to act on it There's your choice.

Yes, so? As long as I'm acting on it with consenting adults, why do you bigots care so much?

 

[The Rabbi]

What religion teaches not serving black people?
Another red herring.

Let me quote Rabbi to Rabbi:

"They claim it violates their religious beliefs. Have you examined their souls or something?"

And the racists were just as sure of THEIR bible versus as the anti gay bigots are of theirs.

“Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red and he placed them on separate continents. . . . The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix.”
Judge Leon M. Bazile

Anecdote is not evidence.
Next.

Your words Rabbi...

"They claim it violates their religious beliefs. Have you examined their souls or something?"

I have no idea whether those were his religious beliefs or not. In any case he's been dead for years.
Another failed attempt at a point by Seabytch.

So original...Seabytch. Did you break your arm patting yourself on the back for that one?

It's a FACT, Rabbi, that people had (and still have) a religious objection to desegregation and interracial marriage. We did not grant these bigots exceptions to our laws, why should anti gay bigots get to ignore laws when we didn't let racist bigots do it?

There was also resistance rooted in religion to laws barring discrimination in public accommodations and education. For example, a barbeque franchise resisted compliance with the Civil Rights Act of 1964, refusing to serve African-Americans on the ground that the Act “contravene[d] the will of God.”29 The court rejected the defense, stating that, while the franchise owner “has a constitutional right to espouse the religious beliefs of his own choosing . . . he does not have the absolute right to exercise and practice such beliefs in utter disregard of the clear constitutional rights of other citizens.” Most famously, Bob Jones University and its companion plaintiff, Goldsboro Christian Schools, invoked religion to resist integration in education.31 Goldsboro regarded “[c]ultural or biological mixing of the races . . . as a violation of God’s command,”32 and sponsors of Bob Jones University maintained that “the Bible forbids interracial dating and marriage.”33 In the Supreme Court, the schools argued that the loss of their tax-exempt status because of their discriminatory policies violated their Free Exercise rights. The Supreme Court rejected the claim, reasoning that “the interests asserted by petitioners cannot be accommodated with [the] compelling governmental interest” in “eradicating racial discrimination in education—discrimination that prevailed, with official approval, for the first 165 years of this Nation’s constitutional history.”​

Strawman. No one today has objections to serving blacks on religious grounds.

 

[The Rabbi]

No, it's not a choice...religion is.

I said yesterday that many factors are involved. Not a choice at all? That's probably true sometimes but not always. What many omit is that human sexuality is complicated and a manifestation of your true self. That's why some people are dictators in the bedroom, or totally passive, whatever.

I've found every homosexual I've talked to over the years to be very rebellious and counter culture in nature. There may be good reasons they got that way but to say no one can determine how they deal with their environment isn't credible.

So in that sense, yes it's a pseudo religion at a minimum. There's the belief no one can be who they want to be and then the devotion to proselytizing to win over adherents to the cause.

It's a choice. People choose to act out their perverse natures or not.

People who believe being gay is a choice, must be attracted to both men and women and chose only one. How'd you choose? You flip a coin? See, there was never any choice for me, I was just attracted to other girls.

BUt you chose to act on it There's your choice.

Yes, so? As long as I'm acting on it with consenting adults, why do you bigots care so much?

So you agree it's a choice. Good.

 

[rightwinger]

I said yesterday that many factors are involved. Not a choice at all? That's probably true sometimes but not always. What many omit is that human sexuality is complicated and a manifestation of your true self. That's why some people are dictators in the bedroom, or totally passive, whatever.

I've found every homosexual I've talked to over the years to be very rebellious and counter culture in nature. There may be good reasons they got that way but to say no one can determine how they deal with their environment isn't credible.

So in that sense, yes it's a pseudo religion at a minimum. There's the belief no one can be who they want to be and then the devotion to proselytizing to win over adherents to the cause.

It's a choice. People choose to act out their perverse natures or not.

People who believe being gay is a choice, must be attracted to both men and women and chose only one. How'd you choose? You flip a coin? See, there was never any choice for me, I was just attracted to other girls.

BUt you chose to act on it There's your choice.

Yes, so? As long as I'm acting on it with consenting adults, why do you bigots care so much?

So you agree it's a choice. Good.

Religion is a choice....you are free to pick another one if it interferes with your work

 

[Seawytch]

I said yesterday that many factors are involved. Not a choice at all? That's probably true sometimes but not always. What many omit is that human sexuality is complicated and a manifestation of your true self. That's why some people are dictators in the bedroom, or totally passive, whatever.

I've found every homosexual I've talked to over the years to be very rebellious and counter culture in nature. There may be good reasons they got that way but to say no one can determine how they deal with their environment isn't credible.

So in that sense, yes it's a pseudo religion at a minimum. There's the belief no one can be who they want to be and then the devotion to proselytizing to win over adherents to the cause.

It's a choice. People choose to act out their perverse natures or not.

People who believe being gay is a choice, must be attracted to both men and women and chose only one. How'd you choose? You flip a coin? See, there was never any choice for me, I was just attracted to other girls.

BUt you chose to act on it There's your choice.

Yes, so? As long as I'm acting on it with consenting adults, why do you bigots care so much?

So you agree it's a choice. Good.

No, Rabbi, that is not what I said. I said acting upon our natural inclinations is a choice, the inclinations themselves are not. Gay people do not choose to be attracted to members of the same sex, only whether or not to act upon it.

 

[The Rabbi]

It's a choice. People choose to act out their perverse natures or not.

People who believe being gay is a choice, must be attracted to both men and women and chose only one. How'd you choose? You flip a coin? See, there was never any choice for me, I was just attracted to other girls.

BUt you chose to act on it There's your choice.

Yes, so? As long as I'm acting on it with consenting adults, why do you bigots care so much?

So you agree it's a choice. Good.

Religion is a choice....you are free to pick another one if it interferes with your work

You keep repeating that like it's true. It is not. The Constitution protects exercise of religion. And the Supreme Court agrees.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

I said yesterday that many factors are involved. Not a choice at all? That's probably true sometimes but not always. What many omit is that human sexuality is complicated and a manifestation of your true self. That's why some people are dictators in the bedroom, or totally passive, whatever.

I've found every homosexual I've talked to over the years to be very rebellious and counter culture in nature. There may be good reasons they got that way but to say no one can determine how they deal with their environment isn't credible.

So in that sense, yes it's a pseudo religion at a minimum. There's the belief no one can be who they want to be and then the devotion to proselytizing to win over adherents to the cause.

It's a choice. People choose to act out their perverse natures or not.

People who believe being gay is a choice, must be attracted to both men and women and chose only one. How'd you choose? You flip a coin? See, there was never any choice for me, I was just attracted to other girls.

BUt you chose to act on it There's your choice.

Yes, so? As long as I'm acting on it with consenting adults, why do you bigots care so much?

So you agree it's a choice. Good.

Yes, Homosexuality Absolutely Is a Choice http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-p...b_7106800.html

Before the anti-gay rights crowd starts jumping for joy after reading the title, thinking that you now have justification for discrimination, I suggest that you read the whole piece. It begins with:

To all of my Christian brothers and sisters who insist that homosexuality is a choice, I need to break down and finally admit something: I agree with you.

I believe that it absolutely is a choice too, only not in the way that you may have meant.

It continues:

Far too often Christians, when you make the statement that being gay is a sin, what you're really doing without realizing it is reducing all LGBT people down to a sex act -- as if that alone defines sexuality.

You're denying any emotional component in their lives, any capacity to feel real love or show genuine affection toward someone else.

Now before we go on, I want to make two things clear. Although this article is admonishing those Christians who condemn gays, all of those who try to marginalize gays by claiming that being gay is a choice are doing the same thing. The second point is, that this is not a conflict between Christians and gays as many try to make it out to be. It is a conflict between those of any religious persuasion who want to discriminate and those of us-straight and gay- who believe in equality and the value of all human beings.

In another passage that is true of anyone who advocates discrimination, regardless of motive, religious or otherwise, it states:

In a gross oversimplification, you're labeling a complex, fully formed human being as merely a performer of intercourse.

That's something you would never do with heterosexuality, and especially not with your own sexuality, because you understand implicitly that your sexual orientation is about much more than a physical act. It's a much deeper part of who you are than that.

And ………

Christian, you probably recall this in your own story of sexual identity and self discovery don't you? You simply felt naturally and quite involuntarily, the impulses you felt.

By following those impulses you were making a choice, too. You were choosing to be authentic and true to your heart and mind's leading. You were choosing to agree with the truth about how you loved. The alternative would never have been an option.

Why is it so hard for you to believe that LGBT people are operating any differently?

I will finish with:

When we use these words in this very limited and narrow way, we're also assuming that our own inclination, toward not just sex, but affection, intimacy, companionship, romance, and love, are all within our control and alterable -- that they involve decision on any level.

There is more but you get the idea. Those who seek enlightenment will read it and those who want to cling to ignorance and bigotry will ignore it. Your CHOICE

 

[The Rabbi]

It's a choice. People choose to act out their perverse natures or not.

People who believe being gay is a choice, must be attracted to both men and women and chose only one. How'd you choose? You flip a coin? See, there was never any choice for me, I was just attracted to other girls.

BUt you chose to act on it There's your choice.

Yes, so? As long as I'm acting on it with consenting adults, why do you bigots care so much?

So you agree it's a choice. Good.

No, Rabbi, that is not what I said. I said acting upon our natural inclinations is a choice, the inclinations themselves are not. Gay people do not choose to be attracted to members of the same sex, only whether or not to act upon it.

Distinction without a difference.
People have urges to all sorts of things but dont act on them.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

People who believe being gay is a choice, must be attracted to both men and women and chose only one. How'd you choose? You flip a coin? See, there was never any choice for me, I was just attracted to other girls.

BUt you chose to act on it There's your choice.

Yes, so? As long as I'm acting on it with consenting adults, why do you bigots care so much?

So you agree it's a choice. Good.

No, Rabbi, that is not what I said. I said acting upon our natural inclinations is a choice, the inclinations themselves are not. Gay people do not choose to be attracted to members of the same sex, only whether or not to act upon it.

Distinction without a difference.
People have urges to all sorts of things but dont act on them.

What are your "urges " Rabbi? Are you free to act on them. Are you so special that you should be permitted to while others are not?

 

[Iceweasel]

BUt you chose to act on it There's your choice.

Yes, so? As long as I'm acting on it with consenting adults, why do you bigots care so much?

So you agree it's a choice. Good.

No, Rabbi, that is not what I said. I said acting upon our natural inclinations is a choice, the inclinations themselves are not. Gay people do not choose to be attracted to members of the same sex, only whether or not to act upon it.

Distinction without a difference.
People have urges to all sorts of things but dont act on them.

What are your "urges " Rabbi? Are you free to act on them. Are you so special that you should be permitted to while others are not?

Who said you weren't permitted?